Examples of "eastern" wolves

Came across these videos yesterday... The guy seems to have a number of vids/pics of what appears to be good examples of the hybridized wolf-coyote.. Or do you think these are just big coyotes? Some seem to have the classic bushy coyote tail, while others seem to be more wolf-like...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWuJqGrnfWA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMq6PJ2HI70

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjE38xZooEU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI7XNYEfJ9A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe66Hxgna30

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Splaker

Came across these videos yesterday... The guy seems to have a number of vids/pics of what appears to be good examples of the hybridized wolf-coyote.. Or do you think these are just big coyotes? Some seem to have the classic bushy coyote tail, while others seem to be more wolf-like...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWuJqGrnfWA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMq6PJ2HI70

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjE38xZooEU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI7XNYEfJ9A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe66Hxgna30

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Hard to tell, coyote or wolf or crossbreed?
1st one looks like a wolf, the rest not sure....
Last one looks like mange...
This reminds me that I need to check my trial cam soon...
Thanks for posting

To me,the first looks like an Eastern Gray. The rest we called "brush wolves" (hybrids) and made up the bulk of the pelts we collected over several decades of hunting in both Peterborough,Haliburton and Hastings Counties. Correct me if this is wrong,but,I think these are the Wolves that OMNRF wants to reclassify as the "Algonquin" wolf and restrict hunting in a greatly increased area of Ontario.

All the wolves I got on camera while bear baiting near Wawa look like those. Most seem to have a touch of red in them. Got a video of 5 or 6 of them sizeing up a bear. Don't tell the MNR that the 'Algonquin Wolf' is in Wawa. We will have a new species for every small town in the north before ya know it!

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

Ya the first vid does look more wolf than yote... I think that there is a scone wolf in that frame... thought it was the first one that reappeared... but it's smaller

Number 5 is the only wolf. All the rest are what I call coyotes. But number 4 does have a very wolf-like head.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bigbear

Number 5 is the only wolf. All the rest are what I call coyotes. But number 4 does have a very wolf-like head.

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I don't see how #5 is anymore wolf-like than the others... #1 to me seems pretty wolfie too... but all of the images appear to be some kind of cross or what these bios are calling 'eastern' wolves... definitely not pure coyote

It sure does proves the point the MNR made about the need to restrict hunting coyotes in order to protect the Algonquin Wolf.

It's near impossible to be sure to tell them apart, even when you have the time to study them in a video.

All it proves is the point they are mutts, nothing special and ndistinguishable from coyotes (non native and exploding). Can't imagine why that is.


Does not prove the need to protect them any more than they already are. Nor does it prove a need to also protect coyotes in those same areas. It makes as strong an argument against as for.

The "need" to protect should be based on science, not heart strings. Science says there's no need.

Should have said science...and...history. Be that the history of mistakes in Algonquin (which at the least has contributed if not caused the decimation of beaver) or cancelling spring hunts. Or simply the history we have of causing more problems than we solve.

bottom line:
the science in this case, be it their genetic make up ( obviously nothing but mutts, heck they don't even look alike) studies they clearly show that aren't threatened, be it not meeting their own scientific criteria to be listed as threatened, or the science that clearly show Coyotes are exploding and expanding. There's zero, other than heart strings........

i didn't want to start thus again!!

Hopefully it won't (hence the small effort to stop it, before it starts and nudge it back towards the tracks).

Anyhow, cool videos.. they guy get a lot of them on cam. More than most people. Seems like he's baiting?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Splaker

Anyhow, cool videos.. they guy get a lot of them on cam. More than most people. Seems like he's baiting?

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I think it's the 3rd one down called "Radio-Collared Wolf' that show a few radio (GPS) collared Algonquin Wolf sniffing around the same spot over a few months/years...it's hard to say if there is baiting because they don't seem to be finding anything. I wonder if they just are coming in, curious to the scent carried in when they changed out the SD card or batteries or if they spread an attractant/scent to draw them to the Trail Cam.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

All it proves is the point they are mutts, nothing special and ndistinguishable from coyotes (non native and exploding). Can't imagine why that is.


Does not prove the need to protect them any more than they already are. Nor does it prove a need to also protect coyotes in those same areas. It makes as strong an argument against as for.

The "need" to protect should be based on science, not heart strings. Science says there's no need.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

Should have said science...and...history. Be that the history of mistakes in Algonquin (which at the least has contributed if not caused the decimation of beaver) or cancelling spring hunts. Or simply the history we have of causing more problems than we solve.

bottom line:
the science in this case, be it their genetic make up ( obviously nothing but mutts, heck they don't even look alike) studies they clearly show that aren't threatened, be it not meeting their own scientific criteria to be listed as threatened, or the science that clearly show Coyotes are exploding and expanding. There's zero, other than heart strings........

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^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^. JBen,these are my sentiments,exactly. Mutts is a perfect description. Sorry,Splaker,but,when you light a fuse,it usually goes "BANG". LOL

At our instructor conference last year we were told by a MNR biologist that coyotes in New York, Ontario and Michigan all show the DNA links to the Algonquin wolf, so you're bound to see a lot of visual examples of crossover traits.

Someone pick a name for these things and let's stick to it please.

Unless you go way North like the tree line most wolves are mutts. Tree huggers call it an ecological climate warming disaster but in the end it's Mother Nature doing what it does. Some would call it evolution but that usually pizzes off the left too. Not to worry, Trudough will make it a priority and clean up the wolf's gene pool.

Isn't that part of it Glen?
curious how all the proponents and "studies" refer them as either wolves ( wrong ). Or wolf hybrids. They never refer to them as Coyote hybrids (no less accurate than WH). Either of which is "accurate". But betting if they actually called them what they are, well it wouldn't sound quite so romantic as an "Algonquin wolf", nor garner as much attention or sympathy. Funny that.

the vids are nice. Unlike most other canine species, none look much like their brothers. Ones as different as the next. Different heads, tails, sizes. That is one thing shared by all "mutts".

I've seen them in the wild. And yup, I'd be hard pressed to say coyote or mutt.

:)

The correct name according to the MNRF is 'Algonquin Wolf' ..

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The Algonquin Wolf (Canis sp.) is an intermediate-sized canid that lives in family-based packs and feeds on prey that includes Beaver, White-tailed Deer, and Moose. The Algonquin Wolf is the result of a long history of hybridization and backcrossing among Eastern Wolf (Canis lycaon) (aka C. lupus lycaon), Gray Wolf (C. lupus), and Coyote (C. latrans). Although part of a widespread hybrid complex, the Algonquin Wolf can be differentiated from other hybrids, such as the Great Lakes-Boreal Wolf, because it forms a genetically discrete cluster of closely related individuals from which estimates of inferred ancestry can be derived. In addition, morphological data identify it as being generally larger than C. latrans-type canids, and smaller than C. lupus-type canids, although reliable identification requires genotypic data. The Algonquin Wolf is largely restricted in Ontario to Algonquin Provincial Park plus surrounding areas, some of which are protected. These include an area from Killarney Provincial Park south to Kawartha Highlands Signature Site. More distant records are relatively infrequent and likely attributable to occasional long-distance dispersal events, The total number of canids in this genetic group likely numbers between 250 and 1000 mature individuals, and therefore it has been designated as Threatened.

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The science to support from species evaluation assessment by the Committee on the Status of Species at Risk in Ontario (COSSARO)

https://www.ontario.ca/page/ontario-species-risk-evaluation-report-algonquin-wolf-canis-sp-evolutionarily-significant-and

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As a result of the species evaluation assessment by the Committee on the Status of Species at Risk in Ontario (COSSARO), the Algonquin Wolf (formerly referred to as Eastern Wolf) has been re-classified from ‘Special Concern’ to ‘Threatened’ status under the Endangered Species Act, 2007 (ESA). Currently, Ontario is proposing regulatory amendments to O. Reg. 242/08 under the ESA in relation to the changes to the Species at Risk in Ontario List (www.ontario.ca/environmentalregistry and search 012-8105).

https://www.ebr.gov.on.ca/ERS-WEB-Ex...tusId=MTk1NDI1

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Someone brought up Michigan wolves... I've come across some of the debate in Mich, Wisconsin, Minnisota and even Nortehrn Ill. where the wolf is now becoming a a nuisance again due to the protection afforded to them by the US govt since the 70s. It's interesting to note that wolf images I've seen from those states, either shot, killed by cars or caught on cams look a LOT more like "grey" wolves of N. Ontario. Just google an image of an Upper Peninsula wolf, or Minnesota wolf.. even though latitudinally they are about the same as central Ontario, the wolves do in fact look more like the big northern wolves of our province. They seem to have very little if any of the coy-wolf physical characteristics...

Check these out.. the second link shows a 100lber and that aint no coy-wolf... it's big, grey and broad..

http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net...wolf_usfws.jpg

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2663522.html

That one in the huff looks a lot like our northern Greys. :)

Mike obviously you haven't read the response by the OFBM. They to question the um curious and obvious timing of the name change and more. In black and white they call a spade a spade. Outright call into question the MNR motivation.

For some-one who doesn't trust them or the middle with respect to the future of hunting. You sure seem to arguing their "word" as gospel in this case. Make up your mind? You can't have it "both ways" Are you saying they've never misled the public, or been wrong. Well two words.

spring bear.

want more?
nippissing walleye
moose (their inability to figure out what's going on). So if they can't figure out what's going on with Moose...what logic says they are right in this. The MNR says so.
tags
turning blind...no sorry political cheeks around two laws (FNs)
much more

ooops, that's been covered already, just because they "say it's so". Doesn't make it so.

Here's an interesting Wisconsin wolf release... that's definitely a wolf and not some hybrid, IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0LPX-AeKNk

Would agree Splaker, but even if it's a hybrid as someone in the vid thinks. Sure puts the "mutts" we have here to shame. And would also agree with the trapper, that's a big beautiful animal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Splaker

Here's an interesting Wisconsin wolf release... that's definitely a wolf and not some hybrid, IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0LPX-AeKNk

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What a beautiful animal. That was a slick way to release it. I'll remember that method.

Someone put up a picture of a 100% coyote.

Glen, by your post count I see your fairly new here. So am going to make an assumption. If it's wrong, my apologies.

This topic has been the subject of much debate, going back many years. There are those who will argue it started back in the 70s, there are those who will argue the MNR listened to faulty science produced by the Theberges, and compounded, or created problems to begin with.

The "wolves" we have here, have gone by many names, for many years. Eastern Wolves, Bush Wolves, Coy dogs. As of a few weeks ago, the Algonquin Wolf. The reason for that is obvious, and has to do with research out of Princeton University and heart strings.

To quote Shakespeare. A rose by any other name is still a rose. Or in this case cross bred "mutts".

i have a very good image of one these things. I promised someone Id never show it and it hasn't seen the light of day. But there are millions of pictures of Ontario's Coyotes out there. Here's an old thread and old images of Wolves from Alqonquin instead.

http://www.oodmag.com/community/show...y-monster-wolf

And in a minute I'll add an image of a wolf from Quebec. Not hard at all to see what we have bear little resemblance to wolves, or these images Splaker is adding from Wisconsin.

http://jbenphotography.ca/img/s2/v4/p847205632-4.jpg
http://jbenphotography.ca/img/s/v-2/p794426716-4.jpg
http://jbenphotography.ca/img/s/v-2/p260337682-4.jpg
http://jbenphotography.ca/img/s/v-2/p777538105-4.jpg

the images of the whitish wolf above are algonquin wolves? It looks a lot more wolf than yote pic.. When I think of a true coyote this is what you're looking at:

http://www.hinzie.com/writer/media/image/44732.jpg

First two are Coyotes, 2nd two are of the same Wolf in Quebec. Chose them simply for some cross comparison. All in winter, and nice full coats, similar head poses. two shots forward, two shots more profile.

JBen not defending John Theberge - I did read his book out of curiosity - and he did conclude that the wolves were bigger in the past in Algonquin... he even had pics skulls of the wolves from the 1930s I believe and of the 90s. The skulls of the wolves were noticeably smaller by the 90s. His concern, I think, was the the process of hybridization was already a forgone conclusion and that few "true" wolves existed... although he did claim that Algonquin had a distinct strain of wolf.. so this is where you'd probably disagree..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

Glen, by your post count I see your fairly new here. So am going to make an assumption. If it's wrong, my apologies.

This topic has been the subject of much debate, going back many years. There are those who will argue it started back in the 70s, there are those who will argue the MNR listened to faulty science produced by the Theberges, and compounded, or created problems to begin with.

The "wolves" we have here, have gone by many names, for many years. Eastern Wolves, Bush Wolves, Coy dogs. As of a few weeks ago, the Algonquin Wolf. The reason for that is obvious, and has to do with research out of Princeton University and heart strings.

To quote Shakespeare. A rose by any other name is still a rose. Or in this case cross bred "mutts".

i have a very good image of one these things. I promised someone Id never show it and it hasn't seen the light of day. But there are millions of pictures of Ontario's Coyotes out there. Here's an old thread and old images of Wolves from Alqonquin instead.

http://www.oodmag.com/community/show...y-monster-wolf

And in a minute I'll add an image of a wolf from Quebec. Not hard at all to see what we have bear little resemblance to wolves, or these images Splaker is adding from Wisconsin.

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Seconding what JBen said. The photos in the thread JBEN posted are mine. This whole re-writing of the Algonquin wolf story to make them something they are not is beyond stupidity. There are still people alive today who remember (and photo evidence of) what the Algonquin wolves were. What we have today is a coyote mutt.

It's not that I disagree Splaker.
1) I love wolves by far my favourite animal, and think there should be some protections.
2) I think Coyotes are beautiful but obviously there are problems. Like locust they are.

prior to "digging deeper" some years ago, I was (not sure right word) enamoured that we had wolves in APP. Do I think we were wrong to protect them back then now? Don't know, though it's hard not to say, mistakes were made. Fast forward to today. It's too late now to go back and "undue" past mistakes. While it's virtually inarguable prices have been paid ( beaver alone) there are benefits as well.

I'm all for, maintaining the status quo. Very strongly against the proposed changes, for many reasons. And it's pretty obvious why they rushed the name change and that all of it smacks very highly of politics.

No turning back, now... the old wolf is gone.

Werner, the pics from '68 - would you surmise that those were the grey wolves similar to the ones up in Northern Ontario?

Great info. Great pic of a coyote splaker.
So coywolf then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by glen

Great info. Great pic of a coyote splaker.
So coywolf then.

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Yep. It's now known as The Algonquin Wolf.

The real wolves still show up around parrysound every once in a while.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Splaker

I don't see how #5 is anymore wolf-like than the others... #1 to me seems pretty wolfie too... but all of the images appear to be some kind of cross or what these bios are calling 'eastern' wolves... definitely not pure coyote

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Leg length. Wolves' legs are longer in proportion to their bodies.

YOU GUYS ARE ALL WRONG!

This is a coyote in it's appropriate position!

Looking through the lens of my camera!

Attachment 33271

read this just out from coyotewatchcanada.

they're not happy with the EBR proposal and want all of Ontario.

http://coyotewatchcanada.com/alert-o...ote-slaughter/

ALERT: Ontario Plans to allow rare wolf killing by justifying status quo coyote slaughter

TORONTO, CANADA – (Aug 12 2016). On Friday July 22, the Ontario government announced plans to allow hunters and trappers to kill at-risk Algonquin wolves across the majority of their range. The plan requires an erosion of the automatic protection that was said to be afforded by the province’s Endangered Species Act (ESA) following the wolves’ up-listing to Threatened status on June 15th 2016.
Over 165,000 people from around the world have attended the “Public Wolf Howls” in Algonquin Provincial Park for a chance to hear the wolves in the only area where they are fully protected. As few as 154 mature animals, or 65% of the global population, inhabit Ontario.
A large coalition of organizations (see Addendum) has gathered together to call for full protection of Algonquin wolves across their entire range. Algonquin wolves are sparsely distributed across Central Ontario. The groups are urging the public to comment on 2 government proposals (EBR #012-8104 & EBR #012-8105) before Aug 22nd 2016 to ensure the ESA is used to recover the Algonquin wolf population as intended. The coalition stresses the need to extend protection to eastern coyotes and their hybrids, neither of which can be differentiated from Algonquin wolves without a genetic test.
Proposal #012-8104 will limit the ban on wolf and coyote hunting and trapping to three disconnected “core” areas around 3 other provincial parks that currently allow trapping. These closures are too small to support family-based Algonquin wolf packs, reduce coyote interbreeding or protect wide-ranging wolves, which naturally disperse to find new territory and mates in surrounding areas.
Remarks Lesley Sampson, Executive Director of Coyote Watch Canada, “Full hunting and trapping season closures for both species are crucial for recovering these rare wolves and essential for conserving intact, family-based eastern coyote populations.”
“Of the radio-collared Algonquin wolves that dispersed from Algonquin Park’s protection, 80% were killed by hunters or trappers within 1 year,” says Sadie Parr, Executive Director of Wolf Awareness Inc. “It is because of hunting and trapping that so few wolves have been found outside of the “core” areas the government has proposed to protect.”
Proposal #012-8105 will erode the ESA to exempt hunters and trappers from provisions that would otherwise prohibit them from killing, harming and harassing Algonquin wolves. This exemption will apply in all areas outside of the three new closures proposed in #012-8104 and existing closures in and around Algonquin Park.
“Ontario is transparently prioritizing a minority of people who profit from the slaughter of wolves and coyotes over the recovery of a species at risk,” says Hannah Barron, Director of Wildlife Conservation Campaigns for Earthroots. “It is appalling that the government would continue to ignore their own research showing that without more extensive protection from hunting and trapping, the Algonquin wolf population will not recover.”
“These proposals are marketed to the public as a step in the right direction while we wait for the Recovery Strategy now mandated by the Endangered Species Act,” adds John McDonnell, Executive Director of CPAWS-OV. “However, a Management Plan, required when the wolves were still listed as Special Concern, has been overdue since 2008. We cannot wait forever.”
For further details, please contact:

Hannah Barron, Director of Wildlife Conservation Campaigns, Earthroots
(647) 567-8337
[email protected]
Sadie Parr, Executive Director, Wolf Awareness Inc.
(250) 272-4695
[email protected]
Lesley Sampson, Executive Director, Coyote Watch Canada
(905) 931-2610
[email protected]
John McDonnell, Executive Director, CPAWS-Ottawa Valley
(819) 778-3355
[email protected]
The coalition includes the following organizations:

• Algonquin to Adirondacks Collaborative
• Animal Alliance of Canada
• Animal Alliance and Environment Voters Party of Canada
• Bear With Us Inc.
• Born FreeCanadians for Furbearers
• Canadian Parks & Wilderness Society, Ottawa Valley
• Citizens United for a Sustainable Planet
• Council of Canadians
• Council of Canadians, Ottawa Chapter
• Coyote Watch Canada
• David Suzuki Foundation
• Earthroots
• Humane Society International/Canada
• Sudbury Animal Rights Association
• The Association for Protection of Fur-Bearing Animals
• Wolf Awareness Inc.
• Wolf Conservation Center
• Zoocheck

Have to love untruths, half truths, outright bs, and politics.

Can I get the DNA difference.
Are the special ones breeding with the not so special.
The only way to save. The special ones is to stop the not so special from breeding. Now how we gunna do that.




Spring bear.

no one seems to be happy!

I think they should release a few hundred Boreal greys (from Alberta or Alaska where they grow huge) and sick em on all the coyotes and half-breeds...

In Yellowstone where they reintroduced Greys, that's kinda what has happened. There they compete and it's not going well for coyotes. Here?
....

I wondered in the other thread, if part of the reason behind this given its on the heals of the spring bear hunt (and adjustment to tag requirements for wolves/coyotes) this might have been a bone to mollify them. Looks ever so slightly possible now.

Glen, go here. This is possibly the most concise and honest response to all of this. There are more than just a couple huge red flags.

This was new to me, and beyond just the research out Princeton which calls a few things into question.
No wonder the MNR and others keep this under the rug.

Also it is important to note that in the 1950’s and 60’s the Lands and Forest (called MNRF today) was trying to eradicate wolves in these and other areas of the Province with poison and bounties for hunters and trappers. Then in the later 50”s and 60’s there was an individual by the name of Mr. Pimlott who conducted documented research inside Algonquin Park.

He was breeding grey wolves with coyotes inside the park in pens and releasing them.

This is supported by documented research. There are also Parks Staff and Lands and Forest employees still living who remember picking up dead deer carcasses on local roads to feed captive wolves and coyote for this project.. This may have been the origin of the hybridization that is occurring with Grey wolves, coyotes and Algonquin/Eastern Wolves.

http://media.wix.com/ugd/eedf40_a01f...2016%20(1).doc

Jben, that's crazy... I've heard of Pimlott.. he's mentioned a lot in Meech books and Theberge... I have to admit that this theory seems pretty farfetched... never heard about it and I wonder why they would do that???

This pretty much confirms what Werner has been stating - that a true grey wolf existed in the park and surrounding in the first half of the 20th C.

"Although wolf harvest in the first half of the 20th century presumably impacted the population size and altered the original genetic makeup of wolves within the park, the timing of the research culls in the mid-1960s is important because it occurred at a time when coyotes were becoming well established in the area. Prior to the 1960s, introgression from coyotes may have occurred, but was likely limited because the first coyote confirmed in southern Ontario was recorded in Thedford, Lambton County in 1919 (Nowak 1979) and densities near APP would have been relatively low until the beginning of the 1960s when coyote populations expanded rapidly north, east, and south (Moore and Parker 1992 in response to new habitat made available through land clearing and wolf extirpation (Kyle et al. 2006; Kays et al. 2010). Estimates of coyote abundance in Wildlife Management Unit 64B (Fig. 2) southeast of APP suggest a trend of increased density (Fig. 3). Therefore, there was presumably limited potential for coyote introgression into APP wolves during the first half of the 20th century, [COLOR=#ff0000][COLOR=#ff0000]although immigration of wolf-like animals, either gray wolf–eastern wolf hybrids from northeastern Ontario or other Algonquin-type animals living in the park periphery, was likely common at the time."

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3297175/)

There has already been a study determining only one genetic foot print for all wolves in Ontario and many have coyote DNA. Why won't our Liebral government use this scientific evidence? Just love to p!55 away our tax dollars and limit our use of natural resources!

I would like to thank everyone for the truth.

The problem I see with the coyote mixed animals is they don't have much limiting their population density.
When they are many other animals get reduced to a low level.
Red fox are a nice looking animal.

I had never, ever heard even a whisper of someone conducting a cross breeding program in or near the park. Until I read that Splaker. Given they assert its documented, and that there are still people alive to verify it. Well the appropriate dosage of salt gets reduced.

it would help "explain" some things that started occurring in the 60s, and especially the 70s.

Assuming its for real. No wonder it's ever mentioned, anywhere and buried never to see the light of day.

Ontdain.
Thats the research out of Princeton. Why might that be important? Because if "wolves" aren't "wolves"....well it "could" potentially mean the end of protected status under the ESA here and in the U.S. For a lot of "wolves" that aren't "wolves".

easiest solution.
move the goal post, make a new species of "wolf". Yep, very curious timing all of this.....including the new name.

I want to know what criteria the OMNRF is using to establish the Algonquin Mutt theory. Both the studies done by the U of T and Trent U Biology Departments thoroughly refuted that Theberge hybrid theory. So WTH is left other than the Princeton study? I'm not sure because I can't prove it,but,something sure stinks.

Here is 4 pups ,,,,,,,,1 mile from the park
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...er/wolf190.jpg

Here's an 20 year old picture,,,,,,,,,,,,,dont laugh that me as well...........I will let you guess where these critters were shot........and what species they are,,,,,,,,,,I cant blow up pic sorry

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...can10007-1.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...can10007-1.jpg

Groups like Earthroots (check out their twitter feed https://twitter.com/Earthroots and website) are pushing the government hard on this. Note that they provide no referencing for any of their claims on Twitter and their website. When I called them out on it they could not provide a specific reference to the research documentation that was not generalized - but "emotion over logic/science" is the way of these groups anyway.

Coyhunter, outside the Park? "wolves"? Tell us!

The pic is very blurry... hard to tell, really..

And those pups look like the mutts we've all been referring to

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Splaker

Coyhunter, outside the Park? "wolves"? Tell us!

The pic is very blurry... hard to tell, really..

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the pups are one mile west of algonquin park............ the blurry pic was taken 5 miles east of Port Colborne............they are all big coyotes shot between Stevensville and Port,,,,,,,,we used to get 3-5 every saturday ...........we got one that was 72#

#72?? Holy crap! That'd be a decent size grey... a 72 yote has to have wolf genes in it...

hey, new to this forum... Have a cottage around Griffith, about 45 minutes west of Renfrew.
We have wolves around and ive gotten quite a few on my trail cam over the past few years.
In terms of their ancestry, ive emailed a few mnr biologists who've said most of the photo's im getting are either eastern wolves or eastern wolf- eastern coyote hyrbids. One wolf in particular I got on cam is a big male, who is more than likely a grey wolf( or has substantial grey wolf ancestry), according to an mnr biologist.

About 30 years ago all my parents and grand parents ever heard were wolves up there. Not so much the case now. Glad to know there are a few big ones roaming the woods that aren't filled with coyote genes. Here are some of my best captures! First pic is of the big male.
Attachment 33279Attachment 33280Attachment 33281

Attachment 33283Attachment 33284Attachment 33285Attachment 33286Attachment 33287

Yeah, those look alot like some of the big Yotes we catch.
That first one, looks more like a wolf, but still is very similar to what we call Coyotes.

I hope "these" dont get modified hunting seasons.

To me the main difference is the size. Yotes dont usually get bigger than 50 pounds. Wolves can be double that.

Sam has pictures of what I call brush wolves. Mostly coyote but with long legs and bit beefier frame.


That first picture is definitely more Wolf than coyote. I'd like to have him hanging on my wall.

Regardless what type of mutts these are, they need to be regulated like every other game animal....not protected because some hippie gives them a new name and say they are endangered. They are far from it where I hunt (not far from Algonquin)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SongDog

Sam has pictures of what I call brush wolves. Mostly coyote but with long legs and bit beefier frame.


That first picture is definitely more Wolf than coyote. I'd like to have him hanging on my wall.

Regardless what type of mutts these are, they need to be regulated like every other game animal....not protected because some hippie gives them a new name and say they are endangered. They are far from it where I hunt (not far from Algonquin)

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My sentiments,exactly. I hate getting my leg peed on and getting told it's raining.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SongDog

Sam has pictures of what I call brush wolves. Mostly coyote but with long legs and bit beefier frame.


That first picture is definitely more Wolf than coyote. I'd like to have him hanging on my wall.

Regardless what type of mutts these are, they need to be regulated like every other game animal....not protected because some hippie gives them a new name and say they are endangered. They are far from it where I hunt (not far from Algonquin)

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Just stating what the ministry has told me.. Am all for hunting them! plenty around.

Sam that very first pic does look a lot more wolf-like.. however it also kind of looks like a malamute! a couple are clearly more yote than wolf but some seem to be a little bit more wolf...

great pics... i think the wide variation goes to show you how "muttfied" these things are - we are simply protecting a non-wolf...

Lol, I don't think there are many dogs roaming the far corners of the Madawaska highlands! (Maybe a few hounds)

A few of the researchers said the first one looks like a "Great Lakes wolf" which is an eastern wolf-grey wolf hybrid.... (Whatever he is, it's great to capture him on cam)

I definitely agree, they are certainly not full on wolves, nor are they straggly coyotes. The mangled breeding has made it difficult to distinguish them visually.

Great pics Sam.

those are wolf pics

Pic 0009 (1st pic of the second group) looks more wolf than yote... Actually looks like the very first animal.. might be the same one.