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Hi All,
Like many of you I renewed my outdoors card a few weeks ago. I received my new card in the mail today. One thing I noticed is that my new card no longer had the "T" on the front to say I was able to purchase a turkey license. I called the ministry and was told the "T" was no longer needed to purchase a turkey license. If this has already been discussed I apologize. Just wanted to let you all know.
Turkey changes:
https://www.oodmag.com/news/turkey-h...nges-proposed/
[COLOR=#000000]Ontario’s wild turkey hunting season will look a little different now that proposed changes have been confirmed for January 1, 2017 implementation.
[COLOR=#000000]On Sept. 19, the Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry (MNRF) posted a proposal on Ontario’s Environmental Registry that would alter the wild turkey hunting regulations. The post was open to public comment until November 3.
[COLOR=#000000]The changes standardize April 25 as opening day for the spring wild turkey season. Previously, when this date fell on a weekend the season start was delayed until the following Monday.
[COLOR=#000000]The proposal also called for the elimination of the separate wild turkey hunter education course. Instead, the course content will be incorporated into the Ontario Hunter Education Program that all new hunters must pass.
[COLOR=#000000]Other changes included allowing hunters to use size 7 shot. Previously, only shot sizes 4, 5, and 6 were legal. A proposed spring season will open in Wildlife Management Unit (WMU) 36 and a fall season in WMU 94. As well, a bows-only season is confirmed from October 1 to 31 in all WMUs that have a fall season. Gun seasons in those areas will remain unchanged.
[COLOR=#000000]Lastly, the proposal called for a clarification of the minimum bow weight required to hunt wild turkey. The weight will be clarified in the regulations to match the requirements for white-tailed deer (e.g. minimum draw weight and length).
[COLOR=#000000]The news of the proposed changes was hailed as positive by the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters (OFAH).
[COLOR=#000000]“More than 1,300 turkey hunters responded to an OFAH survey in April, providing great feedback that clearly showed a high level of satisfaction with turkey management in Ontario, while also identifying some opportunities for improvements,” said OFAH Fish and Wildlife Biologist Dawn Sucee.
[COLOR=#000000]“The OFAH is happy to see some of the opportunities identified by hunters reflected in the current proposal, but we believe there are many other sustainable enhancements that can be made to wild turkey management beyond the current proposal,” added Sucee. “We will continue to pursue other important topics including youth hunting opportunities, licence fees, sealing requirements, reporting improvements, and habitat.”
Ya I called them as well. They are probably wishing that they left the "T" on by now.:)
I got mine in the mail today and noticed the same thing. I think if the attached document didn't mention the T , we probably wouldn't have been so concerned. You can't teach common sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kickingfrog
There is a small point which might concern all turkey hunters, the fact that there is no longer a separate course requirement. Means that all the hunter who have never taken a turkey course and received the training on how to do it properly, can now get a turkey licence on the strength of there Outdoor card and small game hunting licence. So what has been done is to open up the possibility of turkey hunting taking some entirely different formats, where those untrained develop their own technique on how to do it best, an approach that comes to my mind is one of stalk, flush and shoot, or don't flush, just shoot. If this approach takes hold, I can see a couple things unfolding. The first is that those who have receive the proper training, and attempt to call their turkey in, are likely to be calling in more than just the turkeys with feathers. The second, with the the lighter shot sizes being used, turkeys that are flushed and shot at, are more likely to be wounded than killed winding up as coyote food, rather than in the roast pan. JMHO
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut.
Gun nut is right, this just opened up a loophole for the guys that never did the original turkey course. They can now buy a tag, could be a safety concern.
Why? What does the course teach about safety that you would learn in your regular hunting course..
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishhawk
Previously, there was no information taught with respect to safety issues specific to turkey hunting. They must have felt that information was necessary enough to have separate turkey hunting training. Any hunter now can take up turkey hunting without having the training.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
I can see where there could be safety concerns. Hopefully the MNRF will make the safety information available to new turkey hunters somehow.
I still don't get it. So all other hunters are unsafe?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
You haven't taken the turkey training, have you !Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
I think GW was attempting to ask how turkey hunting is so much different from other forms of hunting ie ducks, geese, pheasant, grouse, deer etc.
You have that knowledge Rick.
I am confused as well and have never hunted any kind of bird or shot a gun. If someone would take a moment to give a bit of an explanation, it would be helpful to a lot of us.
For what it's worth I don't think duck id is covered by the course now either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noseyarentcha
For you Noseyaentcha, the one major point of turkey hunting is you don't attempt to stalk turkeys. You attempt to draw them in close enough to take a kill shot at their head. It's important that you are well camouflage and do not move. You use decoys and calls to bring the turkey in close. There is an inherent danger to doing this if you have other hunters stalking the bush and responding to your turkey call.
The other point I was attempting to make, is if you have a hunter shooting at a turkey he may have flushed, the light bird shot that he's required to use, maybe slowed by the birds heavy feathering, and not achieve a kill shot. Leaving the bird damaged but alive enough to flee the scene and later fall prey to other predators. If properly hunted this possibility is pretty much eliminated.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
IMHO,Turkey hunting is the most dangerous type of hunting we do simply because hunters are sitting in the bush in full camo completely invisible behind very real looking decoys making noises like birds other hunters are looking to shoot at. That could be problematic for neophyte hunters who are into what we call "run and gun" or "spot and stalk". I'm not sure if this is a good thing to open Turkey hunting up in this manner or not.
Thank you GunNut and Trimmer. I have a better understanding now :) Definitely information that every turkey hunter should know!
I might also add, you never wear anything that's red, blue or white. Even a red emblem on your coat or hat can get you shot.
The reason is, when a breeding Tom gets all fired up, its head can be anything from bright red with a white top, bright blue and red or red and blue. Guys have been shot in other jurisdictions because of this. If an untrained hunter is sneaking up on you, thinking you are a turkey (especially when using a gobble call), a flash of red, white or blue can be taken as a gobblers head, and bang.....a shot hunter !!
We all know you are supposed to identify your target before taking a shot but......like Trimmer, I question the decision to open the hunt up. My opinion is....it's all about the money !!
And a follow up to GunNuts post, I have shot several gobblers that have old shot in their breast or legs, from guys shooting them while out of effective range,
Not much different than Deer hunting, when in some places there are numerous hunters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Not many deer hunters shoot at something white, blue or a flash of red....unless of course Rudolph is on the menu.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
When Turkey hunting I would suspect you need to be aware of your surroundings watching for other hunters just the same. A safe hunter doesn't just toss out the safety book because he is turkey hunting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Thank you very much Rick. Your knowledge and experience is always appreciated. :)
Well greatwhite, I would like to believe that is the case, but experience has taught me otherwise. Bro and I were in our duck blind hunting in a treed crick way, when another hunter rowed in stalking our decoys, that were out in front of our blind, before we fully realized what he was about, he let go at our decoys. Fortunately the reed bundles we make the blind with, were thick enough to absorb the shot ricocheting up off the water. Now imagine the same thing happening to a turkey hunter who literally melts into the his background, sitting low to the ground, dress in camo, with thin camo fabric blind in front of him, if he sees the hunter stalking his decoys, he maybe able to warn him off by waving a patch of blaze orange fabric. However if he doesn’t pick him up as he stalks in, it’s possible that when the other hunter opens up on his decoy(s) he could become the recipient of a considerable shot spray. What idiot couldn’t tell the difference between a decoy and a real turkey you asked? You might be surprised.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
Can we have an answer to Kickingfrogs statement, please?Quote:
Originally Posted by kickingfrog
The hunter safety course does cover wildlife identification, it take a general approach to duck species in terms of identifying the distinguishing characteristics that separate puddle duck species from diving duck species. It recommends the equipment (binoculars, field guides etc.) needed for field studies in order for you to get out and become familiar with the species of ducks found in the area you plan to hunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noseyarentcha
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
No it is not...there is very little game id covered in the course...just don't shot a Caribou is about the biggest thing they push nowQuote:
Originally Posted by kickingfrog
There is a lot that is not covered in the hunter safety course that can only then be learned from experience or mentorship. The onus is mostly on the hunter to educate themselves while engaging in the sport. Take moose hunting for example. The best way to determine a cow from a calf is to accompany experienced hunters and learn from them in my experience!!
I am about to go for my Hunter's Ed in Jan, and so I would be one of those people who won't need that separate Turkey course. If my Ed doesn't cover any of the points brought up here then that would be troublesome for me. I guess the ethical thing to do here, at least as far as I am concerned, is to see if I can obtain that DVD, either new or used, if that's the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
I am hoping that at least the Ed course at least shows the DVD or covers it in more detail - my course book doesn't really get into it and it's the newest one.
Good luck with your course. Please let us know what training you get specific to turkey hunting.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaginMerusan
I would just like to confirm here that this is indeed the case. The manual does cover this. But...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by redd foxx
I plan on doing some bird watching, then. Take my binocs and watch and see if I can identify ducks and the like.
Will do.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaginMerusan
If you are taking your course in early in January, the plans for the turkey portion proposed, may not be fully implement, by then. If you have any friends who have done the course by DVD and still have it, you might want to borrow it, and watch. Just a thought, that way you will have some grounds to evaluate if it has.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
Turkey hunting is a bit different.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Red/blue/white are bad colours to wear.
Turkey hunting has different hours in some seasons (7pm instead of the half hour after sunset).
But the biggest thing is to be aware of the danger in trying to stalk a turkey. You are supposed to avoid that and call them in. The danger in trying to stalk one is that it might be where it is because another hunter is calling it in. I hunt both turkeys and deer. The possibility of having a hunter hidden in a fence line and a turkey strutting around 50 yards out while the hunter tries to get him in closer happens far more frequently with turkeys than deer. That's the reason behind the prohibition of rifles and larger shot sizes for turkey.
I was thinking the same thing. I have no buddies from which to borrow or buy from (yet) but I can look for it elsewhere I hope... Kijiji, eBay, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
I checked with an instructor, the turkey hunting component will be taught as of Jan 1. You will be good to go !Quote:
Originally Posted by SaginMerusan
So question, and apologies if i missed it: If someone has their hunting license prior to Jan 1st 2017 but they never took the turkey course/test can they hunt turkey's in the spring of 2017 without any further licensing/courses?
Yes they can. They can just go buy a turkey licence...Quote:
Originally Posted by SpriteMcBain
Is the turkey license a one time thing or it's more like a tag/seal? I've never hunted turkey's but was planning to this spring and i went to the website to buy the dvd and it says to hold off until the new legislation has passed.
So now I'm wondering how i can go about doing it in the spring :)
Found my answer online. Thank you.
The legislation has passed. Once you get your hunter safety training, pass, and buy your small game and outdoors card, you can then buy a turkey licence for the spring hunt and one for fall if you have a season in your area. You get a licence portion, and a game seal portion...not unlike a deer licence. Your HST course will have the turkey component.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpriteMcBain
Their apparently will be no more instruction on turkey hunting outside the hunter safety course, new outdoor cards are being issued to those who took the turkey course without the "T". Outdoor cards will no longer make the distinction between those who have taken the course and past the exam, and those who have not. You will apparently be allowed to purchases a turkey licence as of January 1st, 2017 on the strength of your outdoor card alone. So that was original concern when I raised the issue the door has been thrown wide open for hunters to develop their own approach to hunting turkey.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop Hunting.
- Gun Nut
You should not be shooting at something white, blue or flesh coloured, you should be shooting at a turkeys head. It comes down to target identification, it has nothing to do with the specific game you are after. If you shoot at something brown in deer season then what about the neighbours horse? Elk? Cow?Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
I took the turkey hunting course, it had nothing to do with anything other then selling product, honestly, the safety part was nothing I did not see in the general safety course and teaching you how to call and setup has nothing to do with safety.
Im well aware of that Fox...!!! But thanks for the information !Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
You'd be surprised at what responds to calls while varmint hunting. I have called several hunters, farmers, farm dogs and one guy stopped on the side of the road for a nature call.
Similar experience when calling turkeys.
I don't use a tail fan and you probably shouldn't either if there is a chance of someone shooting "color"
What took from the turkey course, the prime point, was to position yourself to protect your back, stay in one spot and call the turkey to you. This is the keys point to safe turkey hunting, protect your self, and stay stationary, and don't pursue the birds . Until it is part of the new hunter education course, there is a possibility that those who have not taken the turkey course and have their hunting licence already may attempt other ways of hunting turkeys, e.g. stalking them by honking in on birds that are calling to one another.
It may never happen, but it could, someone attempting to call a tom in, could become a victim of a hunter who is attempting to stalk turkey. There was an old film call, "Gunning The Flyways," which portrayed turkey hunting in quite a different light in the episode the turkey hunters were attempting the walk the bush and push the turkeys towards one another and shoot them on the wing as they flew overhead.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
So why did you put in that comment, if people are shooting at white or blue they should not have passed the hunting course, mind you I know of a lot of people, mostly older, who walk around with their finger in the trigger guard and say "oh, it ain't loaded" as they swing it past the group.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Just because you do not see orange or you see something that may be a turkey or a deer or whatever does not justify shooting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Older people walking around with their finger in the trigger guard, may have develop the habit as a result of using hammerlock firearms. When you are stalking game with one of these guns the tendency is to keep your thumb on the hammer spur, in order to the hammer to bring the firearm into action. Unless you have a very large hand, the limited span between the thumb and the trigger finger makes it almost impossible to have the trigger finger outside the trigger guard, and get the leverage needed on the hammer spur to fully the hammer. This is particularly true of old double barrel shotguns. By contrast firearms with modern safeties are less cumbersome when it comes to readying them to fire.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
Well Fox, there have been issues with people shooting at a flash of red, etc., in other jurisdictions where turkey hunting has been legal for many years before Ontario started. Most of the safety issues brought up in our training resulted from actual events in these jurisdictions. One only needs to read the MNRF press releases of charges laid by COs, to realize that just because someone has taken and passed a HSTC, doesn't mean they won't hunt unsafely or illegally!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
You do not need to pull the trigger to a hammer gun, it is never a safe practice, you should be walking with your hand covering the area of the trigger guard to protect it from brush, I have quite a few hammer guns, half and rebounding hammers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
The turkey course does nothing that the hunters safety course does for safety, if it is not the game that you are hunting and you are not sure of what is beyond the target then don't shoot. If there is concern that someone who had received their hunting license a long time ago may go out and shoot people when turkey hunting then we should re-examine sending everyone back to take the course again because we have a whole pile of dangerous hunters in the woods, if this is the case.
If it is red don't shoot, if it is a turkey and there is a safe back stop then shoot, simple as that.
I bet that happens more often during deer season. Obviously they are not teach much about safety during the hunting course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
so all this talk over the years how it was dangers of hunting turkey and madatory course was really just a money grab Wow .. i sure hope all the parties involved are ready for a lawsuit when some guy shoots someone . and i sure hope the money that was generated by these people was put to good use .. i think we should get our money back with intrest. WE HAVE BEEN SCAMMED
I have to ask since I took the PAL course 20+ years ago maybe things have changed since then. Do they still teach hunting safety in the course? From what I gather in this thread they do not. So maybe they need to teach hunting safety again.
Should there be a safety course for deer hunters and migratory game hunters?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark270wsm
Well...they do teach us to look down the barrel of the gun.
Did they teach that 20 years ago?
i do not know .. but what i am saying is people that have not taken the turkey course as of now will be grandfatherd in we were told from the start of turkey hunting that it needed its own course. now its being taught as of 2017 hunter saftey course . so anyone with a hunting lic can now buy a turkey tag in spring. we were basicaly scamed and paid big money and a day off work for some guys to hunt..
AS i have said in the past the hunter course is a joke.. its usually a Friday night and all day sat and sunday. how can you absobe all that information in 2.4 days. when i took mine it was 2 or 3 hours a night for about month we had time to study the books we had to pay for now they have to buy books but can never read them.
Point taken and noted. Thanks for this tidbit. Surely there will definitely be veteran hunters doing this, while newbies may be stalking them or some such. And those newbies may be getting themselves into the line of fire by moving around like that. Who knows what kinds of accidents are waiting to happen?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
Thanks for the info, Gun Nut. It's info like this why I want to hunt down that DVD.
I hear you Mark270 and I understand where you are coming from.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark270wsm
I wouldn't go out turkey hunting by myself, especially after reading the information here.
Personally, I think that there should be a seperate course for deer and turkey and duck/bear (everything we hunt)that includes proper shot placement, blood trailing, gutting, tree stand stand safety, proper baiting techniques etc.
The courses should be expanded for us newbies.
It is a darn good thing that I have experienced hunters to learn from.
What about the guys that don't?
the whole system needs a over hual... i like the fact that it can be done online in some other provinces and in most USA states then you do it at your own pace and then meet the instructor for the final (hard ) test, years ago when i got my course it was very time consuming and very knowledge based and there was something hard when a CO was walking up the isle while you did the written test and when you did the practical having him do the test. there was no opps there is a mistake it was automatic fail. Hunting is becomeing more popular and we need it to be better looked after. Things are going to get dangourse in the spring.
I completely agree with you Mark. We should be taught more.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark270wsm
I can honestly say that I learned much more doing observation sits, tracking, trailing, constructing blinds, sitting there freezing my butt off on a game trail, reading this site and shootin' the breeze with my mentor, than I ever did in that hunting course.
When I first started hunting 30 years ago or so, there was no hunter safety course and to obtain your FAC (Firearms Acquisition certificate) you just had to apply for it. Back then you could apply 3 months before your 16'th birthday. I received min on a Friday my birthday. Back then there was no course. When we changed to the PAL system (Guns are actually illegal to won now a PAL is a license to own a firearm) 20+ years ago I had to do the course because I forgot to renew before the Grandfather period for FAC holders was up. The course was 4 hours Friday, 8 hours Saturday and 8 hours Sunday. To be honest I think they covered everything. Be safe with a gun should be common sense. Number 1 thing is be sure of your target and your surroundings doesn't matter if you are hunting deer, bear, small game or turkey.
I think you are confusing the Hunter Safety training Course and the Canadian Firearms Safety Training.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Some 48 years ago when I started hunting, I had to take the Hunter Safety Course to get my hunting licence. Hunter Safety Training was made mandatory in 1960.
1960, Ont. was the first province to start with the hunter safety courseQuote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
In New Brunswick we did not have a hunter's safety course. I'm from NB and NS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles