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So I see now that they eliminated the requirement of the turkey coarse. So does this mean I get my money back from the mandatory coarse I took 15 years ago? Answer is probably no.
But my real question is, does it mean that anyone with a hunting license can now buy a turkey tag?
Ha, wishful thinking in getting any money back, even if you did 2 months ago.
Yes anyone with a hunting Outdoors Card and small game licence will be able to purchase a turkey licence starting in 2017.
As long as you have a small game licence, you can hunt turkeys, is what I understand.
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If you did it two months ago, it would have been free. That course has been free for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quack_Kills
are you sure about this? i have seen someone else say this too, but couldn't find any reference to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redplaid
pretty sure a turkey tag is still required...
It is dumb, you need to have a small game license to buy a turkey hunting license. If you do not hunt small game then hunting one turkey in a year comes out to almost $60 due to the mandatory small game license.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowj
The tag part I am not sure about... you would probably need to buy the tag.
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Ah i don't think it's been free. You do it through an intructor they charge you for it. You do the home study course you pay for the dvd...Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
You must still buy a turkey licence. This has not changed.
You haven't taken the turkey course, obviously!Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
I have. It was free.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
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You must be special.....everyone else paid !!Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
Must be! Could be it was a just a local thing. But I only took it because it was free -- I had no real interest in hunting turkeys!
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Seems to me the course I took was put on by OFAH, who had a big hand in making it mandatory (memory is cloudy on the subject due to being bent over a desk and . . . . by anyone or anything that can make a dollar off of me) . . . maybe they will cough up my refund . . .
And we still have to buy a separate tag for the fall . . . .
I have never taken the course, but I will probably buy a tag now. Lot's of land I have access to have turkey's
So is this official now?
Yup.
https://www.ofah.org/programs/wild-turkey-seminar/
Wild Turkey Seminar
*** CHANGES TO THE WILD TURKEY HUNTER EDUCATION PROGRAM IN ONTARIO EFFECTIVE JANUARY 1, 2017 ***
Regulatory proposals have been approved related to the Wild Turkey Hunter Education Course.
Effective January 1, 2017 the stand-alone Wild Turkey Hunter Education Course is no longer required to hunt wild turkey in Ontario.
A decision notice has been posted on the Environmental Registry to communicate these changes more widely.
Any questions may be directed to [email protected].
Who knows I just want to go Turkey hunting like today... lol
What did they teach in the course. Anything about how to call Turkey?
Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
They covered calling etc. -- types of calls, strategies. But the most important aspect of the course is (was) safety.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
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I can't see the MNRF dropping the course if it was a "revenue tool". As a species they just can't walk away from money.
They already have, it was integrated into the normal hunting course.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
I took the turkey course, I know that the idea is that it would help with safety but nobody failed out of the 800 or so that were there, it was just a tax grab.
It all comes back to knowing your target and what is beyond it, if you follow this it does not matter what you hunt.
If people are shooting at red for turkey then what about somebodies kid walking in the bush with a red collar on their shirt, are they now dead and still in the wrong because they had red on? We have to assume someone is there, no matter if you have sole permission or not, safety has nothing to do with the other person as you cannot control them.
I think they are banking on the increased turkey licence sales to make up the loss in course revenue...Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
The MNRF does not recive the money the ofah and there instructors do .. and its real funny that all the courses are all the same price.. sounds like price fixing to me
I got my turkey licence last year at this time. I had to order a DVD (I think it cost $35) and they sent it along with an official receipt that I had to take to a hunter safety examiner who gave us the test.
I wonder how many guys that haven't taken the course wouldn't mind an on-line summary of what the course covered. I'd never really thought about how to get another turkey hunters attention (safely) when I'm all set up an he/she wanders in to my setup. It's not like deer hunting where you're wearing orange. It's easy to get shot turkey hunting because everyone is camoed.
I can see covering it in the hunting course for new hunters but how do the older hunters learn the proper way to hunt turkeys???
If they sold the DVD or offered it online say for 5 - 10 bucks I would take it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanO
Why they dont teach you how to hunt .. just to be safe.... and every guy and gal has taken the hunter safety course. why give more money to them
I would hope they include some how to hunt material.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark270wsm
the course. was a joke... i asked the guy how many turkeys he had shot his answer was 0 they were just guys spouting off reading material... and selling stuff to a controlled audience ... this was at trent university years back complete cash grab... one guy they took to the back and gave him the test 3 times... Same test.. till he got it right. ALL IN THE NAME OF SAFETY ONE AGAIN WE GOT CLUCKED
I took mine in Peterborough in 1987 and it was free.
Probably one of the first courses they had.
Stu.
Whew. I was starting to wonder if I was going senile. ;)
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It was just another safety course. It barely had anything to do with hunting turkey, just like the hunter safety course barely has anything to do with hunting other game. It was a cash grab, which is compounded when you go buy your overpriced tag.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
a training course is not going to help someone who is going to shoot at a spot of red on someones shirt. lets just hope not many people in the woods we hunt are that retarded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
youre right though, safety is the same whatever game you are hunting, sure turkey has its own special dangers, since everyones in camo (but same with waterfowl and coyote hunting), but some simple common sense lessons in the general hunter training course should be all that is required.
it would be nice if they actually held folks accountable for their test results though, if you fail you should have to come back and write it another day, or take the course over again. pretty sure i got close to perfect and I am no genius.
I forget what the percentage is but for accredited courses in College and University if they do not have enough people failing they examine the material and the testing practices to make sure they are fair and honest, 800 people and no fails is too easy if you are actually testing people and not just taking their money.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowj
Turkey hunting is considered one of the most dangerous hunts out there. Driving that point home and educating people of that fact isn't necessarily a bad thing. I took the course the second year it was offered and that's so long ago now I don't remember if I paid for it. But as already stated above it could easily be incorporated into the existing hunter safety course. It's about hunter safety really. If you want a seminar on how to hunt them there are plenty and you could spend weeks on the net watching how to videos.
well saidQuote:
Originally Posted by terrym
That's fair! I think they should offer it for free to guys that are ambitious enough to put in the time .... like you. Just put the DVD on line for free.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
You're right. I know I nearly SH.T the first time I had a guy walk up on my decoys while I called with a hen call. He didn't even see me but I had put a big tree between me and him as per the course. He was trespassing for sure but that won't matter if he shoots me. I had to say something three times before he acknowledged me; he was so dialed in on my hen decoys. Good thing I didn't have a strutter standing there.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
i'll start by saying this will be my first season turkey hunting but has this happened more than once? do people really think a frozen decoy is the real deal ? i hunt in 82A as well and i find the animals to be wary as it gets. i can't even get within 25 yds of a rabbit or grouse before it flushes but somehow this genius thinks he can walk right up to a wild turkey? i know i'd never try and stalk a turkey but even if i did i think something would trigger given my other experiences like "umm this is too easy" and/or "that turkey hasn't moved a da*n muscle in the last 20 min". well i'll try and be prepared now. some people scare me.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanO
Some people hunt for the wrong reasons which make it scary...lots of people just out to shoot something or get what they think is an easy meal. Mix in inexperience with ignorance and your bound to have an accident.Quote:
Originally Posted by parkcity
Hey Park City. I really don't like hunting public land because I'm always on edge. No it only happened the one time and it was turkey hunting. I've seen guys while deer hunting but the hunter orange makes me feel more comfortable.
I hunted in the Ottawa Valley when I grew up and seeing another hunter wasn't common. It is now though!
keep your eyes and ears peeled and listen for others approaching. stalking a turkey, while extremely difficult and dangerous, is possible for some people in some areas. i would never do it on public land, and i would likely never be able to make it work anywhere for that matter lol, but people do make it work. if you stalk all they way up onto a decoy and dont notice its a decoy you are an idiot. id have some choice words with someone doing that...
public land is not dangerous even during turkey season, but its best to be aware of your surroundings and take steps (ie no gobbler calls, tree at your back etc) to prevent any idiots from stalking up on you and presenting a dangerous scenario.
Is this why I just got my new outdoor card in the mail and it doesn't have the T on the front of the card
Yes, it is.
so much for the safey aspect of the turkey course... the hunter saftey course now includes the turkeys aspect to it... AND ITS IS THE SAME LENGTH OF TIME .... HOW .. WE GOT SCREWED
The people who had the day long turkey course had a lot of marketing shoved down their throats, ha ha, from what I remember there was a video of a guy getting shot that was quite outrageous and then a lot of talk of calls and strategy, most of which was done with the guise of what call to buy and use and most was branded.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark270wsm
It is not that the turkey course with it's tips on safety was a bad idea. Equally adding those safety concerns to the hunter safety course does not lessen the value of the original turkey course with its concern for safety of those involved in the activity. The real problem as I see it is the section of the hunting community, who have never taken the turkey course, nor will they be exposed to the safety concerns through the additions to the revised hunter safety course. They are the individual who will now be open to having a turkey licence, with out having an understanding of the safety concerns involved in the activity. They will be the ones open to developing their own techniques for hunting turkey which may not have been thought out with an eye for safety first. Keep this in mind as you sit there calling to coke your turkey in. He just might show up with a shotgun.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
Well said.
I disagree. Safety is Safety when hunting. Know your target 100%. A slob hunter is a slob hunter no matter what they are hunting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
This. +1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
This is what I am concerned about. From what I understand, turkey hunters should best sit with something on their backside, such as a tree, I suppose in order to prevent wayward pellets/arrows/ammo from hitting the hunter by accident? There will be no hunters - or not too many hunters - wearing the orange vests and the like, and my impression is that veteran hunters will not wear it if they do not have to. Just my impression, mind you - I have no experience about this.
So... if the course kind of goes over these points quickly without making sure new hunters understand the differences between turkey hunting and other prey, then this is an issue. Yes, safety is safety when it comes to hunting, and yes, all shooters should know what is behind their target, but we all know that no one can be 100% here.
I do hope the course covers it in detail but I am cynical and I expect it will not be. I will report back here on what my course does and how much detail and if it concerns me or not.
So, as one who will be a new hunter, I will be trying to understand all the differences. But I am just one person who cares to do this. My cynicism also expects that many new hunters will not care to go this extra measure, and so there will be veteran hunters who will experience newbies doing unexpected things that other veterans do not do out in the field. This is a valid concern IMHO.
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
However, I also do not want to be one of those hunters who gets shot because of these slobs.
However, I understand that no amount of education or warning or re-education will be enough for these slobbery fools.
The safety aspects of the course go beyond "know your target" and extend into "how not to get shot by a goof." You're kind of proving Gun Nut's point.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
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The turkey course points out a few safety things that are a bit unique to turkey hunting:Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
- dangers of stalking a gobbling turkey
- the colours red, white and blue
It also covered things you can do to increase your safety:
- sitting with your back to a large tree
- ways to alert other hunters which may be zeroing in on your calling
- bring a blaze orange vest for hiking in/out
- covering your bird when you carry it out over your shoulder
They also covered things you wouldn't expect:
- hunting ends before dusk + 30
- only one bird per day even when you have two tags
The also heavily emphasized calling as being the preferred way to hunt (vs run and gun or stalking birds in fields).
That was presented as both a more sportsman-like way of getting your bird - I'd agree there - but also as a safer way of hunting particularly on public land.
I think everything could have been put into a 30 minute presentation though.
But - they did manage to sell me an OFAH turkey hunter hat, a box call (which I still use) and a tape on how to call turkeys (of debatable use).
Not sure how much the course has changed over the years - I took it in 1992.
I for one am also new, never took the turkey course and will defenitely be going for them this spring. It's up to every hunter to educate themselves and not just rely what you learned in the course. I've learned enough from this forum, reading stuff online and watching videos. Of course there is always the risk of guys who don't care and just go for it. But I'll be doing my turkey hunting on private property where I'll be the only one aside from the possibility of trespassers. Whatever you do in life there is goofs who break the rules or think it doesn't apply to them. Just educate yourself as much as you can, have questions, follow the rules and guidelines and laws. I'm sure the turkey cours/dvd is educational and helpful, but I doubt it's information that's impossible to get elsewhere if you try.I for one Iook forward to taking advantage of these changes, and will do what I can to prepare myself and be safe
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I had promised to relate my experiences with the new hunting course that includes the Turkey aspect to the veteran hunters here and so here it is. At the end of this is post will be a "TL;DR" section.
I have watched the DVD course from the previous year (2016) and compared that to the course I took Late January of 2017. That is to say: I bought the DVD from a fellow course taker who bought it late 2016.
One final caveat: the teacher did say that he added a more (than what he was instructed to do) to the course in regards about Turkey. To what extent I have no idea! Please remember this.
So, while the course is still fresh in my head...
Some differences, or details not covered in the regular hunting course as opposed to the DVD (and these are mostly nit-picking):
1) Explanation of the mixedwood vs boreal shield ecozones. along with maps. Also, the management plan for such. This is a nit-pick for those who are interested in the natural aspect.
2) Behaviours: how and when Turkeys flock (aka during the winter). The fact that males will strut. Their want to congregate and flock was also new to me.
3) Identification: the caruncles/snood. These appear in the regs, however, and so it is left up to the hunter to know this via the regs. Uneven tail feathers between jake and adult male was not pointed out. Also, the DVD has colour pics of male vs female feathers, which was nice.
4) Habitat: the more detailed features, such as their ideal habitat as being 1/4 crops and 1/4 grasses, and 1/2 open land and 1/2 forested. This is not so much a nit-pick, however, as this is important to know in locating where turkey may reside.
5) Tracks: although the general hunting course tells you to learn identification and tracking via third party sources and/or from experienced hunters, so this should not be a surprise. However, the DVD does display these tracks and goes into some hard detail - so this is a huge bonus (for me anyway). Pics of turkey sign and droppings were also displayed in the DVD. Also, the shape of dropping can show sex.
6) Hunting: the "Rush and Flush" technique was new to me.
7) The "Shoot/Don't Shoot" portion of the DVD was an awesome surpise. Nice!
I should point out that much of the general history of Turkey in Ontario was indeed covered, and the related points about ecosystems and ecologies.
I know that these points of interest was of concern to some here, and so I'll point them out.
1) Turkey Identification (i.e.: beard, feathers, colouration), plus age/sex ID features - covered.
2) Turkey Calls: my teacher did have these and displayed them and used them. Your course/teacher may vary.
3) Hunting: the fact that Turkeys have good eyesight and hearing was pointed out many times, and the reasons why camo and not the orange is used when hunting. Also, a minmum of 5 shots in critical head area made for a good shot pattern was pointed out. Arrow broadhead hunting regulations was covered, along with other body target areas when bowhunting. Of course, hunting hours was covered.
4) Safety: some points that were brought up: if you see another (stranger) hunter, call out and let them know you are there. Don't move so much as this will draw attention (from other nervous nelly hunters who may point their firearm at you; but another reason why not as that Turkeys will likewise notice you and avoid you). Using background behind you (wider than your shoulders, taller than head) was covered. Use of blinds was covered. Decoys and locating them safely was covered.
4a) Positive Target Identification (This deserved it's own heading): this was covered both in course and in my particular exam - and I wouldn't be surprised if this question was in all exams. No doubt this is copied over from gun safety, and I was personally glad to see it revisited. The big take away from the course was to always assume all sounds - not just for Turkey! - are made by another peson. Another big take away from the course was to generally make sure you can make a clean, lethal shot which can only really happen after you have positively ID'd your target. Don't let excitement make you take hasty decisions.
5) Spring vs Fall season - definitely covered. In spades. Use of hen calls in spring was pointed out.
- - - - -
TL;DR (Too Long; Didn't Read): so... you have no time to read, eh? Then why are you here? Get back to work. *elbows ya inna ribs* Come back when you have time, fool!
TL;DR 2:
OK, so as a refresher I can see the DVD as a great tool. I can see how this would be good for hunters who haven't gone in years and want to get back into it.
For veteran hunters who are mentoring new hunters: this is an great leg-up for newbies for teaching the ropes. So if you still have the DVD then it was not money wasted - use it for teaching. Crack open those beer and the nachos and have at it.
For veteran hunters, generally: well, I guess you could feel like you have been victimized by a government money grab, but I can assure you that the DVD taught you a lot more fine details than what was taught me via general course. If all you wanted was a general hunting course and be able to hunt everything: then yes, you've been had. A lot of what the Turkey Course offered was already in the General Hunting course, and common sense and safety would have been sufficient to make hunting safe if all hunters practice both. As you already know, no amount of education will fix stupid.
- - - - -
One final word: this is my experience. I am very certain I had a teacher who was equally concerned about nature and ecosystems as he was about hunting itself and took the care to include more than the bare minimum. YMMV.
- - - - -
Thanks werner.reiche! These are good details. Your points were also covered in my general course.
I should point out something, though...
This is not entirely accurate. Close, but not 100%. Please check the regs, page 31:Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
https://dr6j45jk9xcmk.cloudfront.net...ns-english.pdf
I agree. Especially with the "Shoot/Don't Shoot" portion, which showed situations where they showed Turkey in various settings and asked if you should shoot or not. Then they gave you why or why not. Plus, if they did that with all large game as well, and did it all for lethal shot placement. It would be a longer presentation but worth it IMHO.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Congrats on your course. Now be prepared to enjoy the addiction that is turkey hunting !!!
You have apparently learned a lot, now the turkeys will teach you a lot more, and will teach you something new every time you tangle with them, if you pay attention !!
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
I certainly won't go in thinking that animals will not surprise me. Even the teacher remarked that Turkeys once in a while and uncannily seemed to appear out of nowhere.
Certainly this is not an activity for those prone to drug use and hysteria. ;) LOL.
the small game license is mandatory anywaysQuote:
Originally Posted by Fox
I see Werner, but most of this should be common sense and the few things that are not could have been covered in the regular hunting course in less then 30 minutes as you suggested. The Hunting regs also cover the hunting times. Now had they offered as the main part of the course to teach me how to call Turkey's. Then I would have probably been interested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Now that the Turkey Hunting course is no longer a money maker for the OFAH, they should put that DVD course on-line FREE to the members who would like to increase their knowledge beyond the basics that they may receive at their hunters safety course.
Bingo!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
My issue with the test was a new hunter taking the hunting course had to shell out again for the turkey course.
Not if you only hunt big game.Quote:
Originally Posted by 123chadder