This claim is posted on Facebook (I don't have facebook). Indications are these and additional pics is that this cougar was found near Kakabeka Falls west of Thunder Bay. Other pictures show people loading the cougar on top of their van.
This claim is posted on Facebook (I don't have facebook). Indications are these and additional pics is that this cougar was found near Kakabeka Falls west of Thunder Bay. Other pictures show people loading the cougar on top of their van.
Saw it on my feed earlier.
Everything seems to be on the up and up, including what Im pretty sure is an Ontario plate on the truck. The snow that had partially melted off it seemed quite natural (aka it wasn't placed there) and while its hard to tell how long it was dead, counting the ribs made me think of starvation. The quills in it, didn't seem that bad...dunno.
But hesitate to share it, wouldn't be the first time everything wasn't what it appeared to be. I have no trouble thinking some are around, and haven't going way back to the beginning. Lots of talk about one here in my hood near Lindsay/Little Britain a few years ago, including some pics people had. But again....
I'll wait though, too many "hoaxes" and too many who still think they aren't and its all bogus and or like looking for Lochness.
:)
Just a matter of time before someone hits the lottery and gets the pics a lot of people seem to feel are needed before they will accept that yes, there are some still around or coming back.
I am 100% positive one ran across hwy 519 in front of me last year.
Usually friday evenings they come out.
Right up there with manthers...Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I'd like to see the pic's but they come up as a 404 error
Likewise. Can't see pics here. Have seen them on FB tho.
I note that the only source for this at present is the woman who posted the pics to FB. No independent corroboration, no news stories. Cat taken to a taxidermist.
They only exist on FB so far and hotlinking to FB wont work (hence the 404 message). Give it a day or two K, if theres anything to it all it will hit normal news channels.
I could DL the images, host them and then display them here, but being a photographer myself......I dont like using other peoples content without their consent. ;)
For what its worth and thats not a lot at this point, it could be legit and given the region, good odds if its legit, it's not an escapee....those odds would I think be very low.
I thought there was a ladies prison in the neck of the woods ? Maybe an escapee ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
Lol, one of the better cougar quips that.
Well, it's a cougar alright ! I'd hope the MNRF does a necropsy to see what killed it. Sure is in rough shape.
Thanks Mike for posting the pics...
Has anything been mentioned in the news yet?
Looks like it's confirmed. Gord Ellis of cbc and ood has interviewed the lady that found it, and shared the story, gotten word direct from from her. He's a respected journalist so I think its for real.
I guess the question now is.....is a released cat or natural. There was one shot by OPP a few years back near Bracebridge that MNR investigated and turned out to be an escapee from a local zoo.
I would trust Gord Ellis. The question is going to be whether it was wild. But there's lots of evidence for cougars in northwestern Ont.
I would of loved to see a pic with the toes pulled back to reveal if it has claws or had been declawed. Even if it had claws it would not be definitive of a wild but declawed would definitely be an escapee. And I agree that lots of evidence out there to support a wild population especially in the north west.
HJ, that was one of my first thoughts as well. Suspect if it had been declawed the taxidermist that examined it, would have noted that and said so, instead he claimed it as being wild. Maybe a tad premature on his part, because as you noted, just because one still has claws, it could still be an escapee, but I'm thinking in this case, we do have a wild one.
There have been a handful caught on film now, or seen and trapped, there was one in Grafton (?) last year that spent a day or two under someones deck. All determined, labelled as escapees.
Who knows if the story is real, but the story is on CBC/ThunderBay
Just read that it is now in the possession of the MNR- full of porcupine quills- they said it will eventually go on display- I have talked to a couple of game wardens in the past an they are sure that Ontario has a wild breeding population
My first guess is that it's an escaped pet and was starving and tried it's luck on a porcupine and didn't fare so good.
I shot a coyote this winter that had at least 100 quils on it, from head to toe. In it's mouth, nose and ears, it's paws were so infected it could hardly walk. I burned it behind the house in case it was sick with something. Never seen the likes before
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
I agree. Unless it's rabid a truly wild cougar that has managed to evade people, trail cameras, death on the highway, etc., probably wouldn't be dumb enough to attack a porcupine.Quote:
Originally Posted by SongDog
I still won't be convinced of the existence of a breeding population until someone produces pictures of juveniles.
also reported on the weather network.. I guess this could still be an "escapee".. Anyhow if they are in the ThunderBay region, they could be anywhere in the province. The MNR no longer denies their existence.. I wonder if the population will increase? I suppose if ungulates are healthy, then yes...
https://www.theweathernetwork.com/ne...ontario/80768/
A few years back I was very sceptical too... but its a massive province that is mostly still wilderness... The North is very sparsely populated. It is entirely conceivable that a small population could nearly and completely evade detection. But they haven't entirely b/c so many people have come forward with credible sightings... some have to be real/true.Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
How many of us see wolves and they are very common throughout the province? if there are just a couple of hundred cougars then they could go mostly undetected.
And for what it's worth... The Michigan DNR confirms that they have them in the Upper Penn. That's a hop, skip and a jump from Ontario...http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...sula/18809367/
Boy these things can really travel far...
"The DNR believes the cougars probably moved into Michigan after traveling east from the Dakotas, where there is an established population.
“They end up in the U.P. looking for a mate,” Munson Badini said.“When they can’t find one, they usually move farther east or go back to the Dakotas. We had one cougar that ended up in Connecticut and was hit by a car. DNA testing showed it was the same animal that was in Michigan earlier.”
The taxidermist that has the cat said that it indeed does have claws and while not proof of being a truly wild cougar it is another piece of the puzzle.
https://www.oodmag.com/news/mnrf-pos...r-thunder-bay/
I do not see why there is so much denial, nobody trusted someones word so they got pictures, then people did not trust the picture and said they wanted a body, not they have a body. It may have been dumb to attack a porcupine but how many porcupines had that animal gone up against? If this particular cat did not see them very often how would it even know that this was a problem? Dogs go after porcupines and although some are dumb most are not, not much different than a wolf or coyote.
I remember people saying that you need to find a body to prove it but you do not find many animal bodies in the bush, rarely a deer, almost never a bear but there are lots of bears around and tons and tons of deer.
No one is denying the possibility even with pictures. Majority of the time 99% it has been proven that they were escapees from exotic animal farm or people someone having one as a pet and it was either let go or it escaped. They are elusive yes, they are not that common in this neck of the woods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Sometimes when I'm really hungry, I think "I'm so hungry I could eat the ask out of a skunk".
Hard to tell from the pics how much decomp had set it, but it looked to me like it was starving, and the taxidermist said or confirmed that. Does it surprise me a cougar would go for a porcupine? Not if its starving.
I personally think theres a good chance there are wild cougars in the province. They were here historically, we arent that far from Michigan. Considering the size of Ontario, especially N Ontario, their range, elusiveness, Getting the pics, sightings...What are referred to as golden BBs.
Wolves have returned to Western States where they haven't been seen in 50-75 years, If Im not mistaken almost as far south as Cali now. And just a few years ago, another animal thought be extirpated was spotted and photographed in Arizona. The Jaguar
So why not.
We forever think we know better than nature and she always proves us wrong.
Also in the news yesterday, an animal thought to be extinct turned up in Australia
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...land-australia
So where are the young ones?
Same place their parents are. Far away from humans, and very very elusive.
Their range if I'm not mistaken is around 500km. While that's large for any animal, it's a pin head in Ontario. Then if that wouldn't make it hard enough, they are solitary animals.
I don't know how many there are in Montana, a couple thousand maybe? While they are seen there, it's not every day, and Montana is a fraction of the size Ontario is.
Mnr is spreading it now.
Note the paragraphs at the end.
Endangered (doesn't mean gone)
Some in NW Ontario
http://mnrwatch.com/cougar-carcass-f...-lion-mystery/
??? Why would they stick around? Considering the fact that many creatures thought extinct were found to be alive. It was unlikely that the cougar ever was extinct the north of Ontario is a pretty big place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
Sorry... I meant in general, not in this incident specifically.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
As far as I'm aware, every recent cougar sighting in Ontario is of a fully grown lone cat. If we have a breeding cougar population, why are there no pictures or sightings of juveniles?
I would like to believe they're "here" as much as the next guy, but until there's more evidence I'll remain skeptical.
Is it more likely that we have a secretive, elusive breeding population of wild animals or just a few escapees or abandoned pets that have been seen on multiple occasions?
I understand that the province is vast, but that makes me think in the opposite direction. If there are a few cougars roaming the Ontario wilderness, it's unlikely that a male and female would ever meet. If a small population did happen to establish itself in some remote corner, surely they would have multiplied and spread out by now. Surely somebody somewhere would have more concrete evidence.
For what it's worth, I'm almost certain that I saw a cougar north of Bobcaygeon around ten years ago. There were a few sightings in the area at that time. I still don't believe that it was part of a breeding population. Shouldn't there be even more sightings there now if that was the case?
I hope that I'm wrong and this incident in the OP turns out to be the real deal.
"Ontario is vast and it's unlikely a pair would meet"
Hence why while I have no trouble believing some are around. I dont think we have a self sustaining population. More likely some transients from Michigan. A dozen, or two, maybe 3 and maybe occasionally a pair hook up but...
Sarnia no but I know of a few people in the Ottawa valley who have seen them, these people are not drinkers and do not do drugs either.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
I think it is hard to say they are excapees from exotic animal farms, there are not that many exotic animal farms in Ontario.
How often are bear cubs seen? I mean, we have a black bear population in Ontario of what, 100 000? They are spread out from Grey/Bruce east to Ottawa and every part north but yet how often do people actually see bear cubs for the population?Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
It is rare to find a dead bear in the bush or any animal for that matter, there are lots of things that eat animals once they die yet we do not deny they exist.
I do not doubt that they are around, if they are original strains from Ontario or ones moving back from the west in a similar way to how the coyotes moved over time.
I've never seen bear cubs, wolf pups, bobcat kittens or the juveniles of most predators.
The only ones I can remember ever seeing was a litter of fox kits... And that wasn't even "in the wild" as they came out of the marsh across the road from the Ottawa General Hospital.
You would be surprised who has exotic animals and exotic animal farms in the Ottawa Valley. I know 2 retired MNR guys from the valley and both say highly unlikely that the valley has any population of wild cougars based on their almost 40 years of experience each.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
According to the attached article “Shebeshekong” in Ojibway means “cougar country”.
This is a Township 20 minutes north of Parry Sound.
Does this mean the Ojibway Indians saw Cougars around probably a 100 years ago or whenever it was named?
https://www.parrysound.com/opinion-s...riginal-owner/
Cougars were in Ontario before Europeans, they called them Eastern Cougars. They are still seen in the Eastern US States on occasion, they were classed as extirpated until recently when that was changed to endangered, so either these are a remnant population from way back or western animals moving back.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSguy
I've seen bear cubs in the bush on a couple of occasions. Your examples are of animals that have an established, wild and reproducing population here. To suggest the same of the cougar is just speculation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddmott
I'll wait for the proof. You can send me an "I told you so" if we ever actually get definitive proof of a truly wild and breeding population. [emoji1]
I think what he is suggesting GW is that other animals that are nowhere near as shy of man, nowhere near as elusive, or with as much range, and certainly are well established and numerous. Sightings arent an every day occurrence. Im willing to bet there are a lot of people in N Ontario that have never seen wolves. Sure lots have but wolves travel in packs, they dont range as far and wide, they are numerous, etc. Id have no trouble betting money there are lots in N Ontario that have never seen one.
Heck fishers are very numerous. How often are they seen?
My guess is you will never get the "proof" you say it will take for you. For starters they are solitary. So seeing more than one, getting more than one on film......Have you won the lottery yet to
:)
To each their own. My guess is this is a wild one. for some and thats fine, it still wont be enough :)
I hope you're right JBen, truly. We'll see how the story in the OP ends.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
Although if it ever is confirmed, I think there will be a downside for hunters.
I would say they now have proof that those things are in fact here. Why wouldn't they be?
I don't think an one is denying the possibility but most have proven to be pets or ones that have escaped from someones private collection.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
I have seen Fishers at least 3 times a year when I was living just outside of Kemptville Ontario starting in the early 1990's.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
Many people believe in ghosts, yet with all the tec available today, they have never been proven, sort of like religion.:silly: LOL
I've seen 2 in my life, caught them on Game cameras a few times. Biggest problem with "them" I think is that they are nocturnal. Thats not to say they aren't diurnal, but that they are far more active at night. But there is a good healthy population.......
Lets just say, the carcass found this week was a juvenile (1 year old) and its reasonably established its wild. Claws, diet. I personally don't know how anyone will ever be able to prove it is without question wild or an escapee or domestic, even with DNA testing. Maybe its possible? Don't know, but a domesticated Juve could be fed a steady diet of roadkill and game meats, and a wild cat could have a taste for livestock...
But lets just say somehow its proven beyond any doubt whatsoever we have them (plural). How many are we talking about.
6?
12?
36?
360?
In BC (roughly the same size as Ontario) the estimate is 3,500. How often are they seen? Fairly I think but thats a lot of cats. How open is BC (sight lines, plains, fields etc) compared to the bush up north....I think its considerably more open. Guys hunt there using rifles that can truly reach out and touch something. How often do guys take 500 yard shots at Moose? And despite all that if you really want to find one, guys use dogs to tree them.....need to...
The estimate for Canada is 4,000
So somewhere between Alberta and NFLD its estimated there are
500
Please post the pictures JBen ! I want to see this elusive kitten. :)
The same of Alien life forms, however most scientist believe that life most likely exists outside of our planet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
lol YD.
In truth I'd give my proverbial left arm to see and photograph one in the wild (domestic escapee or not).
I guess in the end, it just comes down to what someone choose to think/beleive. Me, given the probabilities (both being here and seeing/finding one) I think we do have some wild ones here, but we aren't talking big numbers. A couple dozen maybe?
Now maybe theres someone on the forum who understands DNA testing, I only have the basic most rudimentary understanding, but lets assume someday a Juvenile is found and its tested and the DNA says at some point in its life it ate (or its parents???) beef and sheep?
Escapee?
Wild?
Or its a 1 year old cat, not sure how finding beaver and venison in its DNA "proves" thats not from some guys freezer and roadkill that he fed it before it escaped at 6 or 8 months of age..
"too each their own"
Most have no doubt that aliens exist, but among us, or are visiting us is another thing altogether....MIB....Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
So.... should a DNA test take 4 months?
I sent an email to Bob Borrows (the journalist who wrote the story) and got back this reply:Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
Quote:
ROBERT BOWLES
8:16 PM (8 hours ago)
MNRF said it would be the end of the summer before they got the DNA testing completed and they would let me know when that happened. I have not heard from them..
Bob
Interesting... thanks Mike. It seems like a very long time but then again I don't know much about the DNA testing process.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Most likely they have not got around to it.
I suppose it depends on priority...Bin Laden IDed from his sister's DNA in about 8 hrs.
Average LE times was usually < 3 months unless something bigger took priority.
The cat is likely low on the priority list.
I would order DNA testing 8+ yeas ago. Back when I was associated with the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services.Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
It could take 3-6 months for a DNA report.
If you think it happens like CSI--- it does. Once you start the test, the results return reasonably quickly.
But in Ontario, unless you are testing for an extremely high profile case, there is an enormous wait time until the Lab Tech/Scientists get to processing the sample.
Good to know, thanks for the info! I've been checking every now and again in the news for the results (with no luck obviously) and figured there would be others on here with experience in the area.Quote:
Originally Posted by johny