ON Issue #24 - ever growing Sunshine list ... and who's NOT on it.

I think the $100,000 should be upped but it is still surprising to see some that can make it to that range.... and how Hydro One isn't listed anymore.

http://www.sunshinelist.ca/
Year

	Sector	Total	Change (%)
Year
2017	Municipality	$4,268,661,437.81	4.33
2017	University	$2,714,913,287.94	7.55
2017	School Board	$2,162,208,139.20	24.97
2017	Ministry	$1,777,472,950.54	13.23
2017	Hospitals	$1,733,455,490.69	None
2017	Electricity	$1,117,061,513.30	3.06
2017	Other	$695,360,537.17	-4.16
2017	Crown	$641,034,501.23	10.80
2017	College	$627,251,440.18	12.45
2017	Judiciary	$127,952,994.69	3.45
2017	Legislative Assembly & Offices	$35,821,050.58	None

Sector





http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...ntario-up-7979
The CEO of Ontario Power Generation earned nearly $1.2 million last year, making him the highest-paid public-sector employee in the province on a growing list of those earning $100,000 or more.

Jeff Lyash tops the so-called sunshine list with $1,155,900 in pay and $9,800 in taxable benefits, but next year he could be making even more.
OPG wrote a letter this week to the Ontario government saying its CEO would be paid a maximum of $1.9 million, but it is not changing a $3.8-million compensation cap the premier had asked to be revised.

The board “took great care” in calculating the $3.8-million regulatory cap, board chair Bernard Lord wrote, but it has voluntarily set the maximum compensation much lower, with the target at $1.5 million.

As a wage freeze lifts, all broader public-sector agencies have until September to post their proposals for new executive compensation packages under a framework that caps salaries at the 50th percentile of “appropriate comparators.” That means next year’s sunshine list totals could be much higher.


This year there are 123,410 workers on the list, up from 115,431 last year, earning salaries and benefits that total nearly $16 billion.


The employer with the most workers on the list is OPG with 7,730 employees, including nuclear operators, senior technical engineers and electrical & control technicians. A janitor at OPG made $105,562 last year in salary and benefits.

The most common job is professor, with 5,790 on the list, followed by 3,725 associate professors. There are more than 15,000 police officers of different ranks on the list as well.

Meanwhile, the $4.5 million in pay received by Hydro One’s CEO is not be on the sunshine list, even though the province owns 70 per cent of the company. The government intends to sell up to 60 per cent of Hydro One.

As soon as the initial shares were sold, Hydro One was no longer subject to the public-sector salary disclosure.


http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/201...hine-list-2017

This year, 90 local elementary and secondary school teachers had their names added to the Sunshine List. Teachers account for more than two-thirds of all the public servants making $100,000 or more in the area.

Not sure it should be upped. Is 100k what it was back in the 90s?
Nope.

But when you read other stats and reports, that show after inflation wages are stagnant or down.......and have been since the 70s.
One side of the teeter going up, the other down......Causes for that, likely many. But it is what it is. Stats have proven that across the board wages are stagnant or down.........So for the peons and serfs nothing has changed, for the middle class, its shrinking.......the gap is getting wider.............and wider.........

Put a different "spin" on it.
If everyone in Ontario had their incomes frozen for 40 years. And the prices of "gas" kept going up a wee bit each year, for those 40 years.
Say no more......

Then, on the heels of that.
Its compounded by the growth in numbers. This is much harder to evaluate. It doesn't matter what is occurring out there in the real world. Many sectors need additional warm bodies to "service" the growing population....

*************

Should a "teacher" or a paper pusher or a A-Z
Be paid the same no matter where they work?

Um certain parts of the province, theres tons of economic generating activity (thanks everyone) which makes people wealthy, which leads to more jobs, which leads to more wealth, which leads to more of "everything".

Basically
100,000 may not seem like a lot in the GTA these days.
But to residents of the Shwa (nd many other places now) where average household income is $46,000

Is 100,000 a ton when the average single income in the GTA is $97,000?. Nope
Is 100,000 a ton when the average single income in the PROV is 45,000Um..........
Theres far more to the province than just the GTA

Teachers
A joke and thats all Im going to say. Not sure how they sleep at night and yes I have a handful of teachers in my family and more that are friends. Most of them agree.

To the working man 100k is still 100k. There are a whole lot of the private sector still making what they were making 20 years ago. The whole public sector and politicians are out of touch with Canada's working class. Look south if you want to see what happens next.

No kidding Werner.
Ever hear that expression "If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is". Generally that's sound advice, but sometime, once in awhile it is "true"

Well, the same holds true the other way. "If it sounds or looks too bad to be real, it probably is"...But sometimes it is true.

And we go on and on and on missing, or overlooking, or shaking our heads in denial that we are deer in the tracks and the freight train is barreling towards us. We just don't want to accept the truth of the matter, no slap of cold water in the face will do it. Until it hits and then the crying really starts.

Kind of like a gal/guy who despite oh so much refuses to believe his or her husband or wife is cheating on them.

And if whats occurring in the States isn't enough, if Detroit isn't enough, id the US mid west isn't enough, well theres plenty in history we can look at.
What is occurring today is exactly what caused the fall of Rome. True we may not have barbarian invaders pouring into the now deserted rural areas and small towns, but.........

WE go over this list every year when it comes out. I will use two friends of mine that I know their true incomes as examples. I want teachers, cops, nurses, to earn more than the assistant manager of a Food Basics store, or a window- door installer. Both of whom I know, would be on that list. Yes I know those two guys work hard for their money, ( so they keep telling me), ....but so do most of those on the list.

Living in denial.
What don't you understand about affordability, debt levels, and far more....
What don't you understand about ms Wynne pushing for ORPP....
What don't you understand about jobs fleeing the province
What don't you understand about the crap storm coming and people not being able to save
What don't you understand about JT and CPP, or Harper pushing the age of eligibility back
What don't you understand about the prices of Real Estate.....
What don't you understand about MS WYNNE admitting "some have been left behind"

Working hard so you don't have to...

G your a great guy, a socialist ( a lot i agree with, some or a lot i don't)

For someone who supposed to care about the common man..................

There is sooooooooooooo much out there, slapping you/us in the face, cold buckets of water.....and yet.....

Want me to go on?
Average household income in Oshawa $46,000
Mean duo income in Ontario (75,000ish)
mean single income in Ontario (45,000ish)
70% of the population without any pension, DCP or DBP.
Hundreds of thousands without GPs
Hundreds of thousands in or being pushed into Energy Poverty

Further.
Everybody, everybody needs three letters these days, so don't trot out the tired old "well they/we go to school".
I could link hundreds, thousands of jobs in different fields that require a lot of post secondary, a lot. A lot of skilled experience required to.

And they don't pay anywhere near $60,000 let alone 80,000 or 100,000 and gold plated pensions.
Especially for just working around 3/4 of a year.

And on and on.... I , (don't think I am alone), WANT the cop , nurse, teacher, to earn more than what the assistant manager of a food store earns....period.

What you WANT.
Says it all.

Gee aren't you the guy that often says one reason personal debt levels are so high is because people WANT.

its not about WANTS

AND FFS.
Despite oh so much slapping you in the face.
THEY DO earn more. WAY MORE.
What don't you understand about means, averages, peoples ability to pay bills, retire etc.
FFS. The typical working stiff DOES NOT EARN ANYWHERE CLOSE TO 80,000 or have their PENSIONs funded by other people.

And on top of all that, they have WAY MORE JOB SECURITY.

Try life in the "real" world G.
Its an eye opener

Ive been trying to think of the best way to try and "illustrate" something G. Its not about wants (despite the fact they do, much much more......) its more about needs (what we the province need) and abilities and what people, you know the average person can afford.

You must think 70% of the population makes more than 65,000 or 80,000.
Open your eyes, they don't!!!!!

You want a Cop or teacher to earn more and have their pensions paid for and have job security?
I want those working stiffs who don't have a fraction of all that, to have a GP, theres only 800,000 people looking for one..........and to be able to pay bills, do things for their kids, and hopefully, one day retire......

you tell me whats more important.
************

Now I know you were being facetious and sarcastic ( were you)? The average pay for assistant food store managers in Ontario?
$12.00 an hour. yep I actually went and found the stat.
Does that also come with his pension paid for?
Does it also come with really good job security?

Lets take two similar comparable jobs, lets say both earn in 70s somewhere
Person A ) 70,0000
Person B) 76,000
What happens when person A pension is paid for?
What happens when person B loses their job for the 3rd time in their life
You are aware I hope what is going on in the real world.....
You are aware I hope that many, many people have lost good jobs and now work part time, with no benefits?
Even the province is hiring more and more part timers, laying off RNs and hiring RPNs

Now I am normally a defender of the MNR, They've been taking it on the chin for years.
But funny, despite knowing there are all kinds of people outside the GTA taking it on the chin, looking for work, full time work.
If your not a student or a recent grad. Do not apply to this $50,000+ job a year. Seriously? Wtf!
https://www.gojobs.gov.on.ca/Preview...ampaign=Indeed

Lets say assistant store managers make a lot more in reality. Lets say its 65,000 (but with no Pension)
What happens to his or her job, say in Smallish town Ontario ( pick a mid sized town) when the plant nearby lays off 500 people..........Its thats stores sales going up, or down...........

Now maybe he is lucky and is able to keep his job, but as stats prove wages are going down..so that means he has less money or his customers have less money, to help make sure the "accountant" on the same street also doesn't lose business, and so on and so on
What happens to the OPP constable?
What happens to the Teacher in the town
What happens to the..........
And so on and so on
For years and decades

Self centred, self important, its all about me and us.

Look around G there is sooooooooooo much and yes it goes without saying there a lot more thats wrong than just the Sunshine list.

But bottom line.
Normal everyday people are paying the prices

oh and one of our friends, she's a GP.
She is ashamed, yes ashamed, of how much she is paid to.But then again her daily job is to help those very people getting crushed by things and she sees it, the worst of it. The typical average person

Shouldn't have read the news this afternoon.

So Gord you think unskilled, assistant store managers are paid to much?

Quote:

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Lunchroom Supervisor: Wai Loo at the Toronto District School Board, earning $111,949.67

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Quote:

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Executive Director, Gift-Planning: Karen Bertrand at the University of Toronto, earning $164,738.23

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Scuze me? An Executive Director of what!!!!!!!!!!! What is she planning how to teach basket weaving for gift baskets?
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...-100000-a-year

I don't know what its going to take before you and many others begin to understand its not about envy, or green grass, or what you/they think they are worth. Its about a province that is so far in debt, they have to sell H1 to just help pay for a little of the infrastructure spending, things that help create jobs, for you know...those people paying "the bills"

Its about average people, in all kinds of industries with all kinds of post, and many of them have critical jobs to, being able to find GPs, pay bills, their kids, and someday for them to...retirement
And much more.
Is 100,000 the same today as it was in 1996?
Nope
but then again, many studies show.........

afaik if we could afford it, if the average person could afford it, Id say heck EAs should make 100k to and teachers 150k.

by the way in the star report about it they reported today that the average (you know what that is right?) salary in Ontario is 65,000 and thats without pensions/benefits and or job security. Not sure about you but someone who earns close to or more than 100k. By my definition that is way more, way, way more.....

And with job security.
Which these days.........
As Werner said so far out of touch with "reality" and or just look south.

I still firmly believe a career path someone chooses should look at it as a calling. An example would be my second oldest son who has finally made a decision on a career path based on who is thinks he is as a person and what he contribute to society. Money is not the driving force behind his decision whatsoever in fact he believes the more you have the more complicated life can become. He and I both agree that in time with his chosen profession that the financial stability will come with careful financial planning and being a good steward of his finances. To me the Sunshine list is outdated and remember a time in the 1980's-90's when a $100,000 was a huge amount of money. By today's standards/cost of living it should be raised to the recommended $144,000. I had always worked two or three jobs to get where I am today over a 35 year working career and it wasn't easy. I always believed life is what you make of it and if you desired to attain the $100,000 pay scale you have the capability to make it happen or be content and live within your means at a lower salary/wage.
Do I believe some careers are over paid ? Of course I do. I too know many teachers, fire men, police officers that make in some cases well over $100,000. Some I think deserve this wage while in my opinion many others do not based on their original intent to get into there chosen career path strictly based on financial gain not what they could contribute to society. We can all remember the lousy teachers we had through our school years but we can also remember vividly the teachers that made a huge impact on our lives contributing to who we have become today. Those are the teachers that deserve more .

/like

My GF is a big fan of Denmark (I think it is). They to pay a boat load in taxes, but unlike here. University is free, and there are no huge gaps between the "haves and have nots". When a "teacher" or "Doctor" or "Cop" or "banker" or A to Z really dont make substantially different.from the peons or each other..People tend to choose paths, that call to them, rather than their wallets. Lol how many threads have there been about kids going to school and spending tens of thousands only to not find work or find out they hate it, or their parents who pushed them into Uni...and on, and on and on.

Where are some (most ) of the happiest people in Canada? The Maritimes........"say no more".

As it pertains to this ship wreck and the stuff going on here. Maybe for some its about envy and green grass, dont ant to get into that myself if I can avoid it, is about what Luandry list of things, and what its doing to just "average" people, and affordability.

So many people getting bent, (Gee forcing ORPP in isnt a lcluee?)..so many people having to choose between Hydro and Food, so many people looking for decent full time work, or have taken part time or lower paying work "to pay bills". Oh what about seniors......ah who cares about them......

But hey, lunchroom supervisors and gift planning executives are pulling in 100k, plus benefits plus job security.....And sooooooooooooooooo many others
/points to 300b in debt
/points to Ms Wynne "finally" spending on infrastructure. 120b over the next 10 years
And so much more.

Might agree on the 100k Yellow Dog and thats a might given the mean of about 40 and average of 65. And will not agree so long as "gift planners" are pulling in 160k or 115 before anything else.

Oh and have we all seen the utter mess healthcare is.
/looks at 800,000 people without GPS and far more serious gaping wounds in it.
/looks at 300b debt
And well....one doesnt need to be a scientist to know....who is getting hammered for it and who isnt.

So "G" do we raise taxes 20% to hire a handful of GPs? Raise taxes 7% to give people outside the GTA a break on their Hydro? and on, and on and on.

No JB I did not say that food store managers get paid too much, nor did I say they were unskilled. I said that cops, teachers, and nurses should be paid more than one. I have seen the paychecks of a Food Basics manager and he would be on the sunshine list.

Fine,should be paid more than one. Me, I don't know a lot about that industry.
Is having fresh produce and decent meat somewhat important to you? What would your life be like without them G? beyond that is it better for your health to shop at a grocery store, or Walmart....

Kind of hard to tend your own garden, when your traipsing around the world. :) And I know you don't hunt.
btw looked fabulous.

Don't know about you but Im thinking food is more important than learning how to write a test. And last but not least if yo this he makes to much and as a result you are being gouged. Don't freeking shop there, you do have that choice you know...........and when revenue drops food basics will look at overhead...
********
But more importantly, AS mentioned.
I'm guessing that person works in the GTA? Where the average is $97,000. When looking at some stats and things this is kind of critical, its been mentioned many times. If Ms Wynne brags next week about Ontarios GDP and crows about 2.5% growth does that tell the story? If the Media (btw way how often do you read say the PTBO examiner or the North Bay Chronicle)...never? So what kind of a picture is being fed to you on a silver spoon?

When Ms Wynne and and MSM brags about Ontario doing "better" than other provinces. Is that the whole truth and nothing but the truth? When Ms Wynne brags that unemployment is at 6.3% (or wherever it is at these days) and its lowest since 2008. Are you being told the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/...Grocery/Salary

Last I checked, there is one heck of a lot more to Ontario than the GTA.

MEAN income: $40,000
Average: $65,000

now I don't know about you, but if a teacher is paid $65,000 (and many are). That teacher is already better off, than the average working stiff and assistant store manager, given they only work about 3/4 of a year. Now add the stupid pensions that everyone in the world knows are unaffordable, and further everyone in the world knows that people without pensions are getting bent, especially if/when they have to pay for someone elses but can't find 2 nickels for their own......and now add job security that most working stiffs in the world simply do not have. What is "your or their problem" with that.

Right there, there are way ahead of the average working stiff. Way ahead and thus, are more than adequately compensated, but more importantly affordable.

"I want more, I want to make more than X because I think Im so important" they said to Bob Rae and good old Dalton McGoofy. I want greener grass. Its not enough Im already way better off than the average tax payer, my neighbours have better cars in the driveway and bigger homes.....Fast forward to today.

Now consider the very long laundry list of problems here in the province and people just flat out getting bent, hurt and hurt badly. Most of those problems are a result of money, either being spent poorly, or too much being spent here and not there (Robbing Peter to pay Paul) , or simply a lack of it, and all of them require money to fix.

/looks at 300b in debt
/looks at the budget where more than 50% of it goes to salaries and benefits
/looks at "the people" and many of them being bent over a table and taking it you know where.

Oh and one last thing, though the OPP kind of screw things up.
Cops and Firefighters fall under municipal budgets, not the provincial. Thus their affordability, just like any other widget or service, is dependant on the town/city or municipality running a tight a ship and that towns revenue. Just like any other real business. If Municipality A screws things up, it only hurts who......................

The OPP to are off the charts, many municipalities have and are having to jack land taxes, on top of soaring fees/taxation, Hydro and more, or gut other services because they can't afford them. Maybe its because a very important plant closed and laid off 500 residents, so the town has lost the corporate tax revenue as well as the tax revenue from the now unemployed slaves....you think don't matter, maybe its because well just because. But the main problem with them now is

arbitration

Arbitrators don't look at whether its affordable or not they look at who has green grass, aka what others make, and further all the other services want greener grass, to keep up with the Joneses. If the OPP make 10, we get 9 and we get 8 and so on down the food chain.

For the record.
I recall being fairly young lad, when I found what my father grossed for 186 days of work a year. $27,000 and I know how much my mother received as a death benefit, when too many years of eating smoke caught up to him. Regardless that same city of TO firefighter not that many years later......likely on the SS list. Four to 5 times what he made back then. Is inflation up 500%???

Right/wrong I don't know
Do know mayor Tory is screaming about cost to. So much so, he wants all of us to help pay for TTC expansion despite benefitting oh so much and that to isn't enough, he wants 905ers who average 100k, to pay tolls on the DVP
want
want
want
want
want

who cares what it does to the average tax payer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

Oh and one last thing, though the OPP kind of screw things up.
Cops and Firefighters fall under municipal budgets, not the provincial. Thus their affordability, just like any other widget or service, is dependant on the town/city or municipality running a tight a ship and that towns revenue. Just like any other real business. If Municipality A screws things up, it only hurts who......................

The OPP to are off the charts, many municipalities have and are having to jack land taxes, on top of soaring fees/taxation, Hydro and more, or gut other services because they can't afford them. Maybe its because a very important plant closed and laid off 500 residents, so the town has lost the corporate tax revenue as well as the tax revenue from the now unemployed slaves....you think don't matter, maybe its because well just because. But the main problem with them now is

arbitration

Arbitrators don't look at whether its affordable or not they look at who has green grass, aka what others make, and further all the other services want greener grass, to keep up with the Joneses. If the OPP make 10, we get 9 and we get 8 and so on down the food chain.

For the record.
I recall being fairly young lad, when I found what my father grossed for 186 days of work a year. $27,000 and I know how much my mother received as a death benefit, when too many years of eating smoke caught up to him. Regardless that same city of TO firefighter not that many years later......likely on the SS list. Four to 5 times what he made back then. Is inflation up 500%???

Right/wrong I don't know
Do know mayor Tory is screaming about cost to. So much so, he wants all of us to help pay for TTC expansion despite benefitting oh so much and that to isn't enough, he wants 905ers who average 100k, to pay tolls on the DVP
want
want
want
want
want

who cares what it does to the average tax payer.

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Well said JBen ! That is my and many other municipal employees biggest beef that are not police officers or fire men when the tax base is lost due to a major plant closer . This results in less staff for me to manage and a much tighter operating budget due to loss of the tax base. The police and fire fighters are not affected by this and life goes on for them.

J-Ben you really got a heart-on for teachers...... Every time a topic like this comes up, you go after the teachers.....I hope one day you can move on.

Teachers are not the problem to this provinces debts, it is the government that doesn't manage the tax money collected off our paychecks, fuel, clothing, hydro, heating, grocery, property tax etc......... from us. They just don't manage the funds like it was their own money, they spend a lot of it foolishly and that is the true problem.
If the government didn't waste our taxed dollars, we would have a lot less debt. The problem with the government is that they are only looking at the short term goal (getting voted back in) whereas most citizens look at the long term goal retirement. be it through pension or investment.
The sunshine list should be updated to represent todays current value (closer to $150,000)...... If anyone thinks they make too much money, they can always donate that extra cash to some deserving/needing family or individual.

Now this is some silliness being added here but.............................. Maybe those people benefiting from living around the GTA where housing pricing average 1.2 million should be charged a Province GTA Housing Tax when they sell. Those tax dollars can go to towns that haven't benefited from the GTA craze, that seems fair to me....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

. I have seen the paychecks of a Food Basics manager and he would be on the sunshine list.

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Two things here. First that store manager isn't paid by taxpayers who earn less and don't have a pension.
Secondly the typical grocery store likely has near 100 staff, possibly 75-100 million in sales of products that can have very short shelf lives. Gross margins in the grocery industry can be quite slim in some categories if you factor in writoffs of perishables. Also these stores are typically open 7 days a week for very long hours. People need to eat and demand quality at low prices. Do you really think a teacher is that much more important than the guy who sells you your dinner? By the way 3 of my best friends are teachers and my daughter is 3/4 in her teaching degree at University. I have a lot of respect for many of them but know darn well what reality is.
Most civil servants do an honest job and care. The problem is there are too many and we can't afford to pay them a salary for 25 years and a pension for 20 more years. That formula stopped working 30 years ago.
There is a reason Trump got elected. The middle class also want to drain the swamp. "Executive Directors" of gift selection? That title also means there is a director and several managers and god knows how many more.
There is reason why Brexit happened. The middle class got tired of multiple layers of self serving government sucking tax money. At some point the Civil service need to understand every dollar they get was taken from another taxpayer who likely have less.
The problem with government is rarely the front line workers. It's the levels of redundant bureaucracy. How many people in the Ministry of Health ever look a patient in the eye? Also that Janitor who made over $100k likely doesn't have that as his salary. He probably made $30k in overtime so worked too many hours. Those hours likely weren't needed and the manpower requirements are poorly managed. Probably by an "executive director".

And being a teacher Fatri I can see why the truth of matter bothers you. You don't like hearing it. If ever there has been one single group of whiners in Ontario its teachers. Even more ironic given "your" many tantrums over the years...........lol...ah poor little teacher doesn't like it when huge chunks of populace have had it with them and voice it, but no trouble crying about every little thing every 4 years.
perspective have you looked around the province?

And given you guys have pretty damn good compared to so many others........"what are you winning about so often" and remind us please who this admins number one support group is?
Ah yes, those same Teachers Unions.


News flash Fatri I am not the only resident of Ontario that has had it with them...given things. In fact Im down right nice about it compared to many others.

But as noted above every nurse, or every CO or every X that gets let go when they gut other services lower down the pet chain.........See Yellow Dogs post.
"good job"

And yes if you could read (hope English isn't what you teach) you might have seen an earlier statement.
"There is far more thats wrong than just this". Lol I just love it when people have trouble reading.
Good thing you don't teach our kids English....Or do you?

Oh and Fatri the Teachers in m family or that are friends. Most of them agree, and have no problems hearing it. In fact one teacher I respect because she does know what things are doing to average people and what things are doing to other services ( that not only hurt say Nurses, but those same average tax payers who um, kind of need Nurses to). Once said I know its screwed I know we are overpaid and pampered, but can we do, fire half the teachers to get salaries back in line...

Guess thats why some Teachers still have respect, and some don't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

No JB I did not say that food store managers get paid too much, nor did I say they were unskilled. I said that cops, teachers, and nurses should be paid more than one. I have seen the paychecks of a Food Basics manager and he would be on the sunshine list.

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The Food Basics manager is part of a private company. If he/she is overpaid it hurts the shareholders and/or owners of the company. When there are umpteen thousand civil servants who are overpaid it hurts all us and affects the ability of the province to provide adequate basic services. As for cops, teachers and nurses making more it would depend on what they are doing. A run of the mill primary school teacher or regular constable should be paid less than the national average IMO.

Ultimately overpaying a Food Basics manager doe not justify over paying a civil servant. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

"There is far more thats wrong than just this". Lol I just love it when people have trouble reading.
Good thing you don't teach our kids English....Or do you?

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J-Ben, I say this from the heart.........I am a little disappointed in you, personal attacks normally not your thing.

Generally not Fatri and maybe it's a a result of it occurring a little to fine on the forums, so I will apologize.

But jut as "we" can rightly blame the GTA for continually re-electing this admin, we can rightly blame the Teachers Unions along with a couple others. Hell even Smokey, OPSEUs head called a spade a spade and has had it with them. But then again, he I'm sure knew who would pay the prices when they started gutting other services.Like Nursing.........

I do know it doesn't mean every teacher has voted with the Union or for them (McWynne) just as every resident of the GTA hasn't. Ive had it with them, especially because they are treated better than most. Is every teacher overpaid? nope and I did also say many are in fact paid around what the average person earns as well.

Either way, their behavior over the years and the voting pattern is why I have a bulls-eye on them, just as we do the GTA. Because ultimately no matter how much we might blame Ms Wynne, its on the electorate. Just a little coincidental dont you think that two groups that have it far better than most are the ones who keep voting them in? And who is paying the prices? And for many high prices.

Kinda like the US....and how voter anger with it....

Ps liked your idea about taxation on the GTA because I do think fair ways to do that are likely needed and I for do think the 407, 403, 412, DVP all should have tolls on them to, provincial tolls given everyone helped build, bringing them lots and lots and lots of jobs, $100,000 jobs, economic activity and growth, along with insane real estate prices now to.

Using broad brush strokes.
The province takes in around 125billion each year, between income,corporate, hst,sin taxes and fees.Plus income derived from other sources.

Salaries and benefits eats somewhere between 50-55% of that. Debt servicing around 11%
leaving 0.35 cents on the dollar for everything and everyone else. 35-40billion does not go very far each year.

Infrastructure? Which is coming way too late. 120b over the next 10 years. Do the math, even "if" every single other available penny went to pay for that for the next 10 years...thats only 350-400b........

~Still have to find 800,000 people GPs
~Still have to address other gaping wounds in Healthcare
~Still have do something about Hydro, especially for people outside the GTA where theres no Nat Gas and rates and delivery charges are higher..(and why is that?)..... and the average income isn't 100,000 (and why is that?), not even remotely. Think about the provincial average.

~Still have to do something about jobs,economic growth outside the GTA. So that people who have been being crushed for years can have a bit of a life, so that "Grocery Stores" that rely on customers don't have to let people go each time a plant closes, or a small business closes because the plant closed and customers are disappearing, and/or because Hydro is going up to gutting their bottom line and or forcing customers to stay away.

So that people like Yellow Dog don't have do more with less,don't have to say goodbye to friends when towns and municipalities have to tighten belts because the corporate taxes and tax revenue they rely on is drying up, but many of their cost........going up and up. Or god forbid, they can afford and give the peons something more than a 1% raise, or Hershy's kiss as a Christmas bonus...........

~Still have to do something, so that those very same people who are getting crushed (what happens to savings when a person is off work, something no teacher ever experienced?) and can't save for retirement
and on
and on
and on

Yeah I have a bullseye on people for being self centred and not thinking about anyone but themselves.
Its a train wreck.

Our contract was up this year guess what our company offered us 0% and 0% and 1% for 3yrs

Since Wynne became premier number of teachers on Sunshine List nearly tripled, costing taxpayers $765M
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...taxpayers-765m

As a result, taxpayers were left with a $765-million bill to pay the salaries of the teachers who made the list in 2016, compared with $263 million in 2014.

Last week, the Ontario Secondary School Teachers Federation became the last of the education unions to ratify agreements that will take them through 2019. Over two years, teachers and support staff across the board are set to see a salary increase equal to four per cent, Elliott confirmed.

Before the bargaining started, Wynne lifted the “net-zero” provision for public-sector employees. That means when new deals are being negotiated with public servants, the government is no longer required to offset the additional spending by finding savings elsewhere.

Van Geyn called both the new agreements and the removal of the net zero provisions “predictable” because of the upcoming election.

“(Wynne) is tracking at 12 per cent in the polls,” Van Geyn said. “She can’t afford for a bloc not to come out. She’s going to spend our money to buy that support.

“That’s what the Sunshine List tells us this year.”

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mosquito

Since Wynne became premier number of teachers on Sunshine List nearly tripled, costing taxpayers $765M
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...taxpayers-765m

As a result, taxpayers were left with a $765-million bill to pay the salaries of the teachers who made the list in 2016, compared with $263 million in 2014.

Last week, the Ontario Secondary School Teachers Federation became the last of the education unions to ratify agreements that will take them through 2019. Over two years, teachers and support staff across the board are set to see a salary increase equal to four per cent, Elliott confirmed.

Before the bargaining started, Wynne lifted the “net-zero” provision for public-sector employees. That means when new deals are being negotiated with public servants, the government is no longer required to offset the additional spending by finding savings elsewhere.

Van Geyn called both the new agreements and the removal of the net zero provisions “predictable” because of the upcoming election.

“(Wynne) is tracking at 12 per cent in the polls,” Van Geyn said. “She can’t afford for a bloc not to come out. She’s going to spend our money to buy that support.

“That’s what the Sunshine List tells us this year.”

---

That is exactly why she has extended the teachers contract so the teachers union doesn't raise a stink during the next election..... It is hush money.............. Union talk is always the same.....better the devil you know

But then again, it's okay, she will just get the money indirectly from all tax payers anyway, price of gas today was $1.18....

Quote:

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As a result, taxpayers were left with a $765-million bill to pay the salaries of the teachers who made the list in 2016, compared with $263 million in 2014.

---

and how much money was thrown at them prior to 2010. When Drummond had to be brought in? Either way,

What ever happened to no net loss?
Talk tough, thats cheap.
Teacher and their Unions? Not so much.

And for what its worth this is why I have a large amount of disdain for them. Are Teachers important? Yep, but so are Nurses and many others lower on the food chain, not the least of whom is the average Ontarian. Who just keeps taking it on the chin, working hard so others don't have to. Well those that are working anyways.

100K+
And do note the growth in numbers in TO. From 200 teachers just a few years ago, to over 1,000
Self centred, greedy, think about no-one but themselves"
Meanwhile all around them.........................

Oh and about healthcare? I am more than comfortable with skeletons in my closet (we all have them). Ive come to terms with mine, first name basis. Thus I have no problems talking about things in my life. Have related my wonderful experiences here in Ontario with cancer, out of pocket expenses, more crap with one of my daughters......

There was a time in my life to, when I grossed well over 100k, thankfully and my the bout I had with Cancer during my divorce woke me the F up. Life isn't about $$...or how much I earn...or what I think I'm worth and should be paid...Given how heavily we are taxed, well think about about how much I contributed each year.....for many, many, many years...........

GF was diagnosed with Cancer last week.
She is going to be off work, with no income ( PS? Banked sick days). She is going to be need resources and meds, very expensive meds..(PS gold plated benefits) .Everyone know how much a single wig cost these days? One med ( a shot to boost white blood cells cost $3,000 each shot). I am technically "unemployed", one of those that can't find decent work. So for the past X months, and for however much longer it takes.........

Something many in PS never get the joy of experiencing, though honestly I think tens of thousands should be laid off just to teach them lessons, about what reality and the real world is actually like.....Then re can re-hire them, but maybe, just maybe they will gain some much needed perspective.About life, about reality, about people, average people, who are getting bent while taking care of them............

Know how much help she qualifies for? And unlike those in Public Service, she doesn't have her life taken of. Benefits and more....Almost jack squat.

because of my income in the years 2010-2015, aka (household income) who cares that for the last year it's been "zero"...... Hundreds of thousands of dollars out of my pocket, in taxes and when I or someone I love needs it.....................And this isn't the first rodeo for me. Nor is she alone......not remotely....

Not sure how Teachers (and many others sleep at night)
Like real estate prices in the GTA, just freaking nuts that sooooooooooooooo many gross well over 100k. And thats without mentioning gold plated benefits and only working 3/4 of a year.

Want want want want to keep up with the Joneses. Who cares what it does to the average person......paying for it all.

People, especially too many in PS, seriously, need reality checks.........

Hopefully teachers will see what the rest of the province sees --- the Liberals are crooks. Take the money Wynne tries to buy your vote with but help out other taxpayers and vote against her.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foxx

Hopefully teachers will see what the rest of the province sees --- the Liberals are crooks. Take the money Wynne tries to buy your vote with but help out other taxpayers and vote against her.

---

I am all for that... I don't think I ever voted liberal once in my life. Don't plan on anytime soon either.
On a side....why is she using Ontario tax payers dollars to meet with the Mayors of the GTA about high property prices... Why isn't she using the tax payers money to speak to the smaller communities that have been hurt because of the current money policies. Raise interest rates, that is sure to solve the "GTA Crisis" ...

The GTA rules it all...

Because certain areas (416, 905) and certain groups, especially the loud squeaky ones, who can hurt someone's chance at the throne...

Have to keep them happy for their votes or campaining clout etc.

Meanwhile those paying the prices, those getting crushed by this or that paying for it all.


"Crickets"