Sights or scope

Hey guys I just recently picked up a cva optima. I am looking to put either sights or a scope on the gun but have been having some difficulty finding info that pertain to this.

So question is what do you guys suggest? I will be primarily hunting the muskoka bush with it or in and around the Guelph area. Not looking to
Blow the budget on this but would like something that can handle the rigours of muzzle loading.

I have looked at Truglo sights on the web with difficulty in finding a dealer. Also several scopes but haven't got excited about any I have looked at.

Any shops in southern Ontario that have a good muzzle loading presence?

Any information is appreciated.

Thank you,
Kris




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A good variable power scope 2 to 7 or 1 3/4 to 5 power scope will cover all ml situations imo, gives you good target acquisition at first and last legal light and also on low power is good for moving targets.

I went the route of a shotgun scope with a fixed x4-30 . These 'stuby' scopes are designed for the recoil of basically a slug gun and have a long eye relief.

I'm not a great fan of variable power scopes as it introduces a moving part. On inexpensive scopes this can lead to early failures from the recoil vibrations or the thread lubricants seizing up in the cold. Since most ML hunting, it's usually less than 100 yds so x4 mag is more than sufficient.

Presently I have a stuby (7") NcStar 4x30 on my ML and it has served me well thru a whack of shooting and a lot of crap Dec weather over the past 5 yrs. Excellent value for the $$.

These are also good scopes:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/TRUGL...hotgun%2Bscope

I should add....I had to go to a scope because with age came the problem of focusing with open sights. Till then I used the stock fibre sights that came with the ML. They worked great as most of my hunting was done in the bush under 50yds.

My CVA Wolf came with a cheap tasco 3x9 scope. Surprisingly it has been good to me for the last 4 years...I am waiting for it to break or have the crosshairs jump so I can buy a nice 2x7 Bushnell Legend...

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Originally Posted by fratri

My CVA Wolf came with a cheap tasco 3x9 scope. Surprisingly it has been good to me for the last 4 years...I am waiting for it to break or have the crosshairs jump so I can buy a nice 2x7 Bushnell Legend...

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Bushnell 3200 2-7 power is an excellent choice, it will cover anything you need. Always sit at lowest power.

Thanks for the replies I will definitely start looking at the scope or variants you guys have suggested.


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I like irons when things are moving and there is lots of light, faster to get on target. That being said I still have good eyes and I grew up shooting irons, unlike many people today. You would be surprised how many people who are legal owners and competent shooters cannot shoot open sights or aperture sights, without a scope they are lost.

I still have not gotten into muzzle loaders but I want to and if the gun is an inline I will scope it, if it is something more traditional it will keep the irons.

My older Optima Pro came with a decent set of fiber optic irons and I used them for a couple of seasons but eventually went to a scope. One shot, relaxed deer, late season with that longer twilight... a scope just gave me a little more confidence with the gun.

I do like irons or peep sights on other firearms under different circumstances though.

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Originally Posted by jim

Bushnell 3200 2-7 power is an excellent choice, it will cover anything you need. Always sit at lowest power.

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That is a great choice. The elite versions hold up well on some of my mammoth recoil rifles!

2-7 is just about perfect up to 200 yards.

Iron sights are fine, but! a scope allows you to pick a particular spot [small] on the animal [ not the whole animal ] and therefore you are more accurate.

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Originally Posted by fratri

My CVA Wolf came with a cheap tasco 3x9 scope. Surprisingly it has been good to me for the last 4 years...I am waiting for it to break or have the crosshairs jump so I can buy a nice 2x7 Bushnell Legend...

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I hope it doesn't fail when you have that buck of a lifetime in front of you... :)

Maybe change it before you regret it...

A good friend always told me to buy the best optics that you can afford. Beware of the high cost of low dollar optics. They will fail at the worst times. If you are like me & you get very few chances to hunt the last thing you want is for your optics to fail... :)

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Originally Posted by jaycee

Iron sights are fine, but! a scope allows you to pick a particular spot [small] on the animal [ not the whole animal ] and therefore you are more accurate.

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I have never once aimed at a whole animal once with my irons, it is all about practice. Look at all the animals that fell before scopes were invented, they hit where they were aiming, from the Buffalo to the squirrel, all shot with irons.

Practice with whatever gun and sighting system you have and become proficient.

The only thing that optics helps you with is low light, long range and old eyes.

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Originally Posted by Fox

I have never once aimed at a whole animal once with my irons, it is all about practice. Look at all the animals that fell before scopes were invented, they hit where they were aiming, from the Buffalo to the squirrel, all shot with irons.

Practice with whatever gun and sighting system you have and become proficient.

The only thing that optics helps you with is low light, long range and old eyes.

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I don't know about that. Short range irons are fine to pick your shot but at some point that front sight covers a whole lot of animal....

Not saying they aren't effective but once you get out 100 plus yards scopes make it so you pick your spot as Jaycee said.

Personally I don't do well with irons because I'm near sighted.

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

Personally I don't do well with irons because I'm near sighted.

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Moi Aussie...can't see both well enough anymore so it's scopes or trying to sight in with progressive lens...not the best solution.

My 8mm Mauser still has iron sights and the problem is the front post totally blocks out the 10" Black center at 100yds . I can hit the Black, but there is no way to be more precise than that.

But as we discussed on the thread 'Pie Plate Accuracy" a 10" area over the vitals will kill the deer, so really, in terms of hunting (or killing an enemy for what it was designed for) it's still a kill shot.....just won't win any shooting contests :)

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

I don't know about that. Short range irons are fine to pick your shot but at some point that front sight covers a whole lot of animal....

Not saying they aren't effective but once you get out 100 plus yards scopes make it so you pick your spot as Jaycee said.

Personally I don't do well with irons because I'm near sighted.

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Bad eyes and it becomes a problem but the tin soup cans at 100 yards with a WWII Cooey trainer never was too hard to hit, a deer is a heck of a lot bigger than a soup can. Remember when we talk open sights that we should be considering a peep sight as well, very fast and by unscrewing the aperture for low light (or in some cases 2 apertures on a tip up system) that you can have a ghost ring for low light.

I like scopes, don't get me wrong, but open sights have their place and are not as bad as everyone seems to make them out to be.

I bought a little kid gun at the gun show, brought it out to the range and the guy who was running it was laughing saying that a 22LR at 75 yards with open sights is impossible, smoked the balloon on the first shot with a 16 1/4" barrel and 12ish LOP, essentially a long pistol with a peep.

We had tons of people who had no clue how to use an aperture sight and said it was impossible to hit anything, they just have never used them.

When deer hunting at close range and especially with moving animals or flighty ones we tend to be way too fine, we try to pick out one strand of hair and squeeze, by that time the deer is already gone. I snap shot with irons in the vitals is fast, really fast, if you know what you are doing, a scope is most rarely quick, even the 1.5x, it is just tougher to acquire the target.

Scope or open sights, they are both great for their applications, sitting and standing/walking animals would be a scope, tight quarters and potentially moving open sights all the way.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

My 8mm Mauser still has iron sights and the problem is the front post totally blocks out the 10" Black center at 100yds . I can hit the Black, but there is no way to be more precise than that.

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6 o'clock hold can be used for that too, although military sight adjustment can be a pain.

Anyone that does a lot of hunting, not just shooting, knows that sun, shade, shadows , low light, bright light, can and does play havoc with open sights now matter what type they are, peep sights are better but still are not as accurate as a scope.
My eyes at my age are still good , I do not wear glasses, can still read a newspaper under good light conditions, but when it comes to hunting with a rifle I will take a scoped one any day over metallic sights because I want to make sure I get in a good killing shot.
When it comes to just fun target shooting , i do still use metallic sights and am good at it, after 60 years of shooting and hunting, have shot handgun competitions for almost 40 years all with open metallic sights, think I have had enough and more than most practice and still enjoy it.

I should add that I had good results using those Reflex sights on my ML shotgun for turkey. They're only 1x but very fast for target acquisition.

As are Red Dots....again pin point accuracy and fast acquisition.

I use a leupold M8 4x with a Dick Thomas premier reticle that works for me. My eyes need a scope.

Thanks for the help guys I went with a Vortex Diamondback 1.75-5 x 32. Got it from Select Shooting Supplies. They are a tactical shop but will order items if they don't have them in my case they had to order the scope. I haven't been to a shop like that since the Gun Centre closed, very helpful and did not make you feel uncomfortable being in there like some places in the area do. Good prices on 22 ammo too.


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Thanks for the heads up on 'Select Shooting', I'll have to stop in the next time I'm down to see the folks.....they live on King St South about 2 minutes from the Grand River Bridge...not far from Lovett's. Give me something to do...:)

I am so excited about the place I feel I need to tell anyone that will listen. It was a great experience and a cool little shop and everything on their used shelf is very reasonably priced.


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Originally Posted by kjay

I am so excited about the place I feel I need to tell anyone that will listen. It was a great experience and a cool little shop and everything on their used shelf is very reasonably priced.


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I wouldn't get too excited about it, when I was there a couple of weeks ago, they didn't really have that much there in variety of sporting arms selection. What I saw there is mainly Black Guns, not my thing .

Yes that is what it is a black arms gun store as I mentioned in my previous post. It's just nice to find a place that isn't ran by a bunch of knobs.

I could have bought this scope off the shelf from another local shop but it makes me cringe going there.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kjay

Thanks for the help guys I went with a Vortex Diamondback 1.75-5 x 32. Got it from Select Shooting Supplies. They are a tactical shop but will order items if they don't have them in my case they had to order the scope. I haven't been to a shop like that since the Gun Centre closed, very helpful and did not make you feel uncomfortable being in there like some places in the area do. Good prices on 22 ammo too.


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Great choice.

Vortex makes great scopes & you cant beat there warranty. They will repair or replace the scope if anything happens no questions asked. One guy even blew a hole in his scope & they replaced it free of charge... :)

Go with Nikon prostuff. Excellent scope for the money. Monarch is better one, but ,much more money too. Nikon prostuff 2-7x32 will cost you around $200

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Originally Posted by jim

Bushnell 3200 2-7 power is an excellent choice, it will cover anything you need. Always sit at lowest power.

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That's the one!

I have had 3 different muzzleloaders now and absolutely prefer a 2X7 powered scope
my current TC has a Vortex Crossfire in 2X7 and it's my favorite of the 3 I've owned

Dan

this is a great sight solution for muzzleloaders

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4POTJnh60c

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Originally Posted by Frankyv

this is a great sight solution for muzzleloaders

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I sure hope he takes the gun off that sled and shots a few off hand before he goes hunting..all that exercise proved out was that the scope is boresighted...not zeroed for him :)

putting it on a sled or some kind of rest will help in zeroing the sight if you try and zero inoffhand good luck. the red dot sights are excellent devices for short range hunting once zeroed in put that dot in the vital area and your within inches all depending on your shake if you shoot offhand. the beauty is you get to keep both eyes open .

hey Mike i assume all your rifles are zeroed in for you offhand, what is your grouping and at what distance.

I don't know anyone who shots with the same accuracy between their rifle shoot from a sled and a rifle mounted in their shoulder. If your not zeroing your scope to correct for the errors you introduce into the POA, you will not be ready to make very accurate shots in a hunting scenario.

All I'm pointing out is, like in that the video, a sled gives guys a false confidence in their shooting ability.

And yes, I can make a fairly accurate pie plate shot off hand out to 100yds..

https://i.imgur.com/SK9X36Xm.jpg

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I don't know anyone who shots with the same accuracy between their rifle shoot from a sled and a rifle mounted in their shoulder. If your not zeroing your scope to correct for the errors you introduce into the POA, you will not be ready to make very accurate shots in a hunting scenario.

All I'm pointing out is, like in that the video, a sled gives guys a false confidence in their shooting ability.

And yes, I can make a fairly accurate pie plate shot off hand out to 100yds..

https://i.imgur.com/SK9X36Xm.jpg

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Dang Mike i need a transplant and my hopes are gone can you please be gentle on the next one. :)

cheers

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Originally Posted by Frankyv

putting it on a sled or some kind of rest will help in zeroing the sight if you try and zero inoffhand good luck. the red dot sights are excellent devices for short range hunting once zeroed in put that dot in the vital area and your within inches all depending on your shake if you shoot offhand. the beauty is you get to keep both eyes open .

hey Mike i assume all your rifles are zeroed in for you offhand, what is your grouping and at what distance.

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You sight in your gun and then you shoot it to make sure you know how to shoot it. You are not sighting in with free hand shooting but you need to shoot free hand to make sure you can shoot. There are so many people out there who flinch or yank the gun, etc, these people need to actually shoot in hunting type situations to make sure they can hit their target 100% of the time, sights vs scope vs red dot, nothing matters if you cannot use that tool effectively.

I personally like heavy guns, I sway less with them and have no problem snap shooting with them either. I actually had a nice chat with a friend on the matter and this past deer season was proof once again, I would rather a deer pop out in front of me for a quick shot than be standing out there for an eternity, I have less nerves when it is a split second situation, having all that time gets the blood going and makes for a less stable shot, but I know me.

I always sight in and shoot with both eyes open, was taught this a long time ago, it really helps to acquire the animal in your sights, groundhogs in a grass field with a 6-24x scope was one of the pushes for keeping both eyes open, you can use your non-scope eye to get your prey into your scopes field of view.

I also do not like red dots, I have one on a bow, forgot to turn it off or it got bumped, next time I wanted to take it out, oops, no battery. I also found that they wash out the target in low light, almost as bad as having the sight wash out against an animal in low light but more annoying to me. I guess my personal feeling is that if I am using a red dot why not just use an open or peep sight, but I have no issues with eye sight yet.

Each one has its merits, I have not been able to get into muzzle loaders yet, when I do I want an inline for longer range and a flinter for close in, the sights will be appropriate for the job the firearm is setup for, the same as how I determine the sights for my rifles or shotguns, but no red dot for me, ha ha ha, just my feeling on them at this point in time.

I got a run of the mill bushnell banner with my muzzy...never had a problem so far and great scope for the price. Unless your shooting competition a cheaper scope will usually suffice if it has good clarity and gathers light well in low light situations.

For the ultimate scope take a look @ the Leupold VXR line of scopes.
They have a tiny adjustable red-dot in the middle of the crosshair. 30mm tube & auto red-dot shut-off if the rifle is not moved after 5min.

Spendy but hey you get what you pay for... :)