11 yr Old Boy shots Bear ..with Birdshot !!

I seem to remember a long winded discussion about birdshot not being any good for self defense....well seems that yes, shot placement and in close quarters ...birdshot can even bring down a charging Brown Bear...

Amazing that an 11 year boy had the wherewithal...

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HOONAH, Alaska (AP) — Quick action from an 11-year-old boy saved a fishing party from a charging brown bear, Alaska State Troopers said.

Elliot Clark was walking through the woods near Game Creek last week with his three family members and three dogs when the bear came out and charged them, The Juneau Empire reported (http://bit.ly/2tbTPgl ).

The bear ran through two of the men, pushing them to the side of the trail, leaving Elliot and his cousin left in its path, Elliot's father, Lucas, said.

"There was four of them in a line . My son was third," Elliot's father said. "The bear came down the trail at them, fella in the front, who was his uncle, the bear was on him so quickly that he didn't have time to take his rifle off his shoulder."

The boy then raised his pump action shotgun and shot the bear with birdshot.

His father said the first shot did nothing, but two more downed the bear and finishing shots by the boy and his uncle killed it.

"That first shot hit him in the shoulder and did absolutely nothing," he said. "The next shot hit him in the nose and traveled down through the neck."

Elliot's father said not getting around to putting a sling on his son's gun might have saved their lives, as he was able to quickly ready himself.

"He was carrying it in his hands rather than on his shoulder," he said. "That was the problem with the other ones, when the bear came at his uncle, he had his rifle on his shoulder and the bear was very close, so he couldn't get it off in time."

The incident was the first Defense of Life or Property killing in the Hoonah area this year, Alaska State Trooper spokeswoman Megan Peters said.

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from: https://www.yahoo.com/news/11-old-al...182700952.html

If it was me I'd be on the ground getting eaten!

The fellow did very well for one so young.

So what did you do on your summer vacation?

Yes, MikePal I recall the thread you are talking about. However, in this particular scenario, the individual had the good fortune to get off a second shot, which prove effective. The ill place first load of birdshot, had little effect, In a situation where you might not have the luxury of getting a better placed second load, my preference is for a hard hitting first load, in my mind that translate - SLUG. Even badly place it has better penetrating potential.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

I think the discussion was that Bird Shot wasn't effective AT ALL...this 'true' story however proves out that it can indeed be effective..it killed a charging bear.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I think the discussion was that Bird Shot wasn't effective AT ALL...this 'true' story however proves out that it can indeed be effective..it killed a charging bear.

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Yes, it had an effect, the tale leaves some doubt as to how effective birdshot can be. As the scenario unfolds the number of hits require to end the show starts to add up:

"[COLOR=#000000]His father said the first shot did nothing, but two more downed the bear and finishing shots by the boy and his uncle killed it."

[COLOR=#000000]The bear had to be double teamed with a rifle to effectively end the show, and the fact that the bear was downed, doesn't discount the possibility of the bear reassuring itself. Being maul by wounded bear, in my mind, does not exact stack up as making birdshot all that effective. The kid appears to have had a repeating firearm, what if you're saddled with a single barrel shotgun (which in thinking would be poor choice)? In bear country I like a double barrel, one barrel load for birding, and the other barrel loaded with a slug, just in case. It is probably good that the kid had not been the foremost focus of the bears charge. Had he been taken out before getting off a second shot the whole adventure might have had quite a different turn.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

Yes, it had an effect, the tale leaves some doubt as to how effective birdshot can be. As the scenario unfolds the number of hits require to end the show starts to add up:

"[COLOR=#000000]His father said the first shot did nothing, but two more downed the bear and finishing shots by the boy and his uncle killed it."

[COLOR=#000000]The bear had to be double teamed with a rifle to effectively end the show, and the fact that the bear was downed, doesn't discount the possibility of the bear reassuring itself. Being maul by wounded bear, in my mind, does not exact stack up as making birdshot all that effective. The kid appears to have had a repeating firearm, what if you're saddled with a single barrel shotgun (which in thinking would be poor choice)? In bear country I like a double barrel, one barrel load for birding, and the other barrel loaded with a slug, just in case. It is probably good that the kid had not been the foremost focus of the bears charge. Had he been taken out before getting off a second shot the whole adventure might have had quite a different turn.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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This dead horse has been beaten so many times.

Go out to the range, bring along some 3/4" plywood, a few layers, shoot them at 10 feet and see what happens, I am not going to tell you what it will look like, we have done that over and over again, go out and do it for yourself.

People do not realize what their guns will do because then do not try things with the, they listen to their mentors and never question anything about it.

I was told by one guy I started hunting with that a 44 Mag in a rifle sends a 240gr bullet down the pipe at 3400fps.

A load of bird shot at close range is devastating.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Go out to the range, bring along some 3/4" plywood, a few layers, shoot them at 10 feet and see what happens

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Yup...

about 3 yds..2 3/4 shell....#5 Turkey load.....3/4" plywood....

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps336905ae.jpg

Shooting in self defense is about breaking off an attack....they're not going to keep coming with a hole like that in them. ..if it can stop a charging bear...it's effective and you don't have to worry about a lead slug flying across the hall into the kids room.

And it is a mess for a Doctor to deal with in surgery.(if the none- bear survives).

One gentleman comes to mind and they didn't even try, just amped at the knee.

Good on the kid and a good thing dad didn't buy him a sling and install it or they would have been bear scat.
Hard to get a slung long gun into the fight with a freight train exiting the alders in your face.

Proof is in the pudding eh? About this time last year Phil Shoemaker was guiding 2 clients when a huge grizzly attacked close, and he killed her(I believe it was a sow) with a S&W 9mm semi auto pistol, but a 9mm pistol won't kill a grizzly, we're told, before being mauled.

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Originally Posted by skypilot

Hard to get a slung long gun into the fight with a freight train exiting the alders in your face.

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When I was dogging deer it was amazing how fast an animal will appear in front of you. I started to carry a shotgun with buck shot for that exact reason.

I can't believe the young man was able to respond at all...the time to react with a bear charging would be so small and with the human instinct to run, he did remarkably well to stand his ground and take action.

I wonder if he is a gamer and has developed a offensive response mechanism and faster hand eye coordination.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

When I was dogging deer it was amazing how fast an animal will appear in front of you. I started to shotgun with buck shot for that exact reason.

I can't believe the young man was able to respond at all...the time to react with a bear charging would be so small and with the human instinct to run, he did remarkably well to stand his ground and take action.

I wonder if he is a gamer and has developed a offensive response mechanism and faster hand eye coordination.

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The story states that the bear ran past the older men in the party and was headed towards the kid, seems like the terrain was a lot better than the worst case scenario we all picture in our heads. I know I have walked in with my shotgun to my shoulder when walking in to bait bears, can be scary when every other animal around is quiet, including birds, you know that bear is not far away but you cannot see it at all.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

When I was dogging deer it was amazing how fast an animal will appear in front of you. I started to carry a shotgun with buck shot for that exact reason.

I can't believe the young man was able to respond at all...the time to react with a bear charging would be so small and with the human instinct to run, he did remarkably well to stand his ground and take action.

I wonder if he is a gamer and has developed a offensive response mechanism and faster hand eye coordination.

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Good point. Reaction times usually improve with regular testing.
Also "kids" don't seem to have the mental baggage that "wise" adults sometimes do in instantaneous dangerous situations. They simply react. No or few preconceived restraints to slow the hands.

Plus I believe he was carrying a pump shotgun, which has always been slow for me although the first shot is as fast as an auto.

I am always amazed by how quickly a wolf or bear can appear from nowhere. Part of that is from the false narrative they we "rule" the wilds. Or that all animals always fear us/avoid us and that is simply untrue. It is part of that mental baggage we have to shed when we are startled and before reacting.

Plus he avoided shooting his fishing partners during a stressful event while targeting a specific threat. Sort of blows the hypothesis that targeting a threat in a "crowd" in a stressful situation, with no "training", results in collateral damage.

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Originally Posted by skypilot

Good point. Reaction times usually improve with regular testing.
Also "kids" don't seem to have the mental baggage that "wise" adults sometimes do in instantaneous dangerous situations. They simply react. No or few preconceived restraints to slow the hands.

Plus I believe he was carrying a pump shotgun, which has always been slow for me although the first shot is as fast as an auto.

I am always amazed by how quickly a wolf or bear can appear from nowhere. Part of that is from the false narrative they we "rule" the wilds. Or that all animals always fear us/avoid us and that is simply untrue. It is part of that mental baggage we have to shed when we are startled and before reacting.

Plus he avoided shooting his fishing partners during a stressful event while targeting a specific threat. Sort of blows the hypothesis that targeting a threat in a "crowd" in a stressful situation, with no "training", results in collateral damage.

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He may have been shooting a pump for a while, my pump is shot just as quick as a guy with a semi, often when hunting geese I do not even realize I ejected the last spent round and closed on an empty chamber, it is muscle memory.

You never know, he may have more "training" than LEOs, kids can pickup a lot and when you start shooting young you may be a lot more well trained than the adults, for safety as well.

I'd be more than happy to have a hunter that quick witted with me out in the bush...