Anybody know to get 20 GAbuckshot #1 buckshot or larger? Ontario regs say need tis as minimum for deer but can't find anywhere in Ontario.
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Anybody know to get 20 GAbuckshot #1 buckshot or larger? Ontario regs say need tis as minimum for deer but can't find anywhere in Ontario.
The only 20ga buckshot I've ever found was #2 - 2 3/4" Federal Premium, approx. 15yrs ago, not legal for deer in ON. I haven't found it since. Lots of 20 ga slugs but I've never seen what your looking for.
I have seen it listed by manufacturers but never found it on a shelf, #1 would be your absolute max though, it has to do with stack up in the shell, Rio is the manufacturer but it is only a 2 3/4" 9 pellet load.
Shoot de slug...kill da deer!
20 Ga. slugs are well known for their accuracy. OP would be wise to go in that direction........................Daniel
I usually only see #3 on the shelf. I just grab slugs instead.
I did up a model, if would be easy enough to stack 12 #1 buckshot into a 3" 20ga hull, I am curious as to what reloading recipes I could find for this.
I used to have some factory and they were junk.
As Jim/Daniel said just crank out slugs.
Why does everyone just say crank out slugs, buckshot exists, it may not be the choice for everyone but it can be deadly when used under the certain situations. 9 pellets or 12 pellets of #1 buckshot within the correct range can be very effective and in certain situations it is a lot better choice than a slugs, I hunt a spot for the shotgun where slugs are not what I want in my gun, I grab the buckshot and have no problems doing so, within its effective range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
Fox, have you ever shot anything living with 20 gauge buck? That is what we are talking about not 12 or any other gauge.
I have and my comments come from direct experience not from could or should guess work.
There is a reason most people dislike this stuff in general but in 20 it seems to loose whatever marginal value it has.
I have and at 15 yards I floded a white tail on a dead run through the cedars.
The stuff I had was complete garbage.
Fox wants to know why all push for slugs and I gave him an answer based on my experience please share more about your positive experiences with this product.
What brand/size did you use?
Have you wounded deer with 20 ga buckshot as well or were all bang flop?
Do do you suggest using this for deer over a traditional slug?
What is the max range you recommend for this ammo?
I have with a 12ga and 9 pellets of OO vs 12 pellets of #1 at 15 yards at the same exact speed would not phase me in the least. If you put the pellets in the boiler room the deer will not notice if they are .30" or .32" in diameter, I have taken my 16ga into that thick crap with #1 buck but did not kick one up that year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
They are very limited for range but there are uses for it if used in that restricted context. The issue with a slug in this particular location is safety, the buckshot is not getting out of that crap but a couple deflections off the brush and I have no clue what direction that slug is going. When I get through the thick crap I switch to slugs as my range stretched beyond 20 yards, therefore out of the range of buckshot. I have had spots on man dogged drives in that bush where deer came out and turned in the thick crap, not 5 yards away from me but with every shot with the slug I saw the trees blow apart. It is not a nice simple shot at a standing deer, it is a running shot at very close range, pretty much the only time buckshot trumps slugs.
You mention the 20ga vs the 12ga, I really do not see the difference when you actually look at pellet count and velocity, they are very similar in energies, again, simply at that very short distance. I would normally take the 12ga, gives me the highest pellet count, but my wife would not be bringing an 8lb 12ga through the bush, just too heavy a gun for her, but a 20ga youth stock with 3" shells is doable.
Answers as you asked them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
Brand - Pattern and see how they hit at close range, if they are no good then don't use them, I have shot some where all pellets are in a pie plate at 15 yards, some where they would be shooting legs off.
Bang Flop - Mine never went anywhere, one guy had one run but I shot 1 with a full bore slug through the heart that rang and 1 with a sabot slug through both lungs and it rang and I have watched a deer with a heart shot from a 180gr 30-06 Rem Cor Lok at 20 yards go 100 yards before falling.
When - Quick shots in tight spots with limited visibility
Range - 20 yards max, ideally 15 yards or closer
Fox - my last post was at Dutch.
Your posts reference your experience with 12 ga not 20 which has no bearing on the matter. Apples verses oranges. Theoretical verses actual which was not what I was asking for.
Dutch has actual experience with 20 gauge buck that is vastly different than my own.
I would like to know more about his actual experience.
I reload 20 gauge buck shot in the same fashion that FOX says. For 12 gauge as well, using a 3" shell, I stack 12 X #0 (.32 cal), in shell, interspersed with with #4, #7 shot. 29 grains of HS 700. These are my close in coyote shells. Because it is difficult to get wads spacers or card wads to back the plastic wads, it does not pattern well after 20 yards. Inside of 20 yards it is devastating..
Great and fine for coyote but OP was talking deer not critters.
My question for Dutch stands but for what it's worth the number 3 has a place for critter control and I've shot my share of it close range.
You say I have no experience and then replay that I have no experience then comment to dutch, makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
Here is a question for you, if 12 #1 pellets are traveling at 1200fps do they have the same energy as 12 #1 pellets traveling at 1200fps?
If you answered the obvious, yes, then you may start to understand that we are comparing apples to apples when looking at 12ga vs 20ga if you have the same pellets of the same size traveling at the same speed, the bore size matters not if the pellets hit their target.
Big Jack, the original poster asked if anyone knows where they can get legal buckshot for a 20ga, not that you say it is crap and you use slugs only and on top of that the 20ga is marginal at best. They asked about big game legal 20ga buckshot, Rio makes it if you can find it and you can reload it as well but the recipes are not something I yet have a book for. A 3" 20ga hull without a shot cup, just a gas seal, as was done for many moons can hold 12 #1 buckshot pellets with a stack that is not too awful looking, you will actually need filler wads as well in this case.
I just found out that Parakelse manufactures OO buckshot loads in 20ga for the US which is 8 OO buck pellets in a 2 3/4" shell, so a 3" OO buck load reloaded is probably possible and would give you the same if not more pellets than a standard 2 3/4" 12ga load.
I have had this back and forth with people on here over and over again, I am done with it, there is the info that I have, I hope the original poster gets something out of this besides being told that the 20ga is useless and to buy a 12ga and slugs.
Fox
My experience is actual not theoretical. I've shot and used this stuff. The last box I bought was 25 plus years ago.
If you can't see the difference I can't help you.
Go try some and tell us how it works, pattern, penetration etc. Get off the keyboard and put the book down and go get some practical experience.
You ever wonder why this stuff isn't readily available?
I still hope Dutch will answer my questions - they were sincere.
I am a walker so I do a ton of dogging for deer .for a few years ago carried a 20 pump.i would use buck shot in close range cedar swamps were you coming only see 20 yards max .a lot if time you will walk right up on bedded deer were thy will stand up and look back before running..I think I killed three deer this way with the 20g.all died very fast.with front quarter shots at less then 20 yards.i never had one get away well using the 20g..I do prefer the 12g but tried a 20g just to see how much different the weight was doing all that walking. The reason for buck shot was as fox says .slugs can go a long ways even in realy thick cover.
Buckshot, can also ricochet and you never know where it will go.Quote:
The reason for buck shot was as fox says .slugs can go a long ways even in realy thick cover
That is how the woman was killed in the Durham Regional Forest a few years ago, she was walking down a trail , a hunter shot at a deer[he claimed ] she was hit and died.
This was discussed on this forum at length after it happened.
Buckshot has earned a bad reputation over time. IMO it's from many hunters using it see a deer at 40+ yds and shoot, only to watch a deer run off never to be found...
exactly...same story with Turkey hunting...trying to reach out to far.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
Been shooting for 28 years, hunting for 18 and hunting with dad for 5 years before that. I man dogged during rifle hunts with hounds, raised hounds, hunted shotgun only walking up on deer, stalked deer to within 5 yards for fun, hunted archery for 18 years, hunted small game for 18 years, migratory birds for the last 10. I love shooting, I know what my guns do because I take them out and I shoot them, I know what a 500fps airgun can do, I know what a 22LR can do, I have seen what a 30-30 can do and what a 30-06 fails to do every time (no such thing as a bang flop all the time).Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
I am sick and tired of justifying things to people like you, you do not know me, I gave the poster an answer and I dislike your comment about "just buy slugs" that is not what was asked. If someone asked if you think they should take a 20ga into the bush with buckshot then fire away, they did not, they asked where you can find 20ga #1 or larger buckshot, plain and simple.
Whenever I look up buckshot info I keep seeing chokes where they claim to put all the pellets into the vitals at 80 yards, this is what is driving this. Just because you can put all the pellets into the vitals does not mean that there is enough energy for any of those individual pellets to reach the vitals. Just because you can hit is does not mean you can kill it. The range at which buckshot should be kept does not require fancy chokes, just shoot the gun and make sure you are using a load that works for your gun, no different than waterfowl hunting but nobody is out there telling people not to use #2 steel on geese because at 60 yards there is not enough power or that they need to run F shot 3 1/2".Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
I also find it funny that the guys who come on here and freak out about the buckshot and deer conversation have no problem shooting a coyote with a 22LR at 100 yards, as if the suffering of a coyote does not mean anything but a deer is a totally different thing.
It's not a contest Fox and if you want to compare notes on ammo down range your barking up the wrong tree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
From your posts everybody knows where you are coming from and frankly you are getting in to Blackwolf territory.
You don't have any experience with 20 buck and spout off at people that actually do. I've shot a pile of it.
I never asked you to explain Dutch's comment rather I wanted to hear his experience because it was completely different than mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchhunter
Can you remember what brand?
The stuff I bought was CIL I beleive. It's all I had available on my budget at the time. I found really poor performance, bad grouping which could easily been the gun, and really bad penetration. So bad it led me to test on ply which showed me some cups did not even open up, some had simply bounced off with no penetration and others were ok - kinda.
I stopped using on animals - absolutely garbage. The simple CIL rifled slugs were devastating short range.
Nothing bounces like a ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Just because it's called buckshot does not mean it should be used on deer. Why would you limit yourself to that when there are better options. If your range is 20 yards I would rather use a crossbow!
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Right I like Carring a crossbow well dogging in Cedar swamps in gun season.Quote:
Originally Posted by rippin_355
Well I guess that sums up my thougths on dogging for deer!
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and why I don't have a scope on my shotgun when I'm dogging...also why I do use buckshot...Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchhunter