Where are the Groundhogs

My Hunting buddy has been hunting Varney Hanover Mt Forest area for 30 years . I started with him 10 yrs ago and we would shoot 30 in two day he had 70 kill in a day in the past, Locals claim its the coyotes but we never see damage to any dens rarely see coyotes during ground hog hunts. I had a guy tell me today he thinks they are using fly poison to kill them. Lets hear your ideas And no it was from killing them all as we often would leave a bunch for next year, We saw 10 total in 2 days this week

With all this rain think they all drowned

I hunt farms in eastern Peterborough County and central Northumberland County and the number of GHogs I've seen in the last few years can be counted on both hands. There's lots of Coyotes and Black Bears around,though.

I have seen more hogs up around North Bay this year than I have seen in a long time. They certainly seem to be on the rebound in the city anyway.

Coyotes, lots of coyotes.

I agree , the coyotes have cleaned them up. We have one in our yard. has a hole in beside the barn. The only one that I know about on our farm. Our jack rabbit , population is away down as well, can't remember if I saw any tracks last winter. Have a family of foxes , close by, I really don't mind them , like to watch the pups playing. The other night they were having a sing song. clean up a lot of mice and small critters. A lot of the cross fences have been removed in our area, farmers have gone to large fields, this leaves very little habitat for ground hogs and jacks. Think it is affecting our deer population as well. They have to change their travel routes. Sign of the times . old243

My guess would be coyotes and farming/land management. One area I have permission to hunt is owned by two brothers who farm 5000 acres.

They buy land, sell or bulldoze the home, barn, sheds etc. then usually remove all tree lines and anything that hinders mass farming and large equipment mobility. That particular 400-500 acres does have a limited stand of sugar bush/mixed hardwood around the perimeter. It also has a transient coyote population (not enough cover to hold them permanently). Never seen a ground hog there.

Just across the road is a smaller parcel with trees, fence lines etc. and there are a few rabbit and ground hog. Then across the next rd is another larger section, different owner with fence rows, a strip of hardwood timber and only hay production. The area has several coyote dens and heavy rabbit sign and a few ground hogs.

The third place is hay/row crop/cattle with no fence row cover, transient coyotes and about 80 acres of timber. It had a ground hog lying in the farmer's asphalt driveway yesterday afternoon went I went by there.

Neither of the 3 owners use any poison although one does spray crops, one tills, one only cuts hay and one drills.

In the several years that I have hunted those farms only the one with all the yote dens/timber tree lines/hay fields had any amount of ground hogs.

Oddly the two groundhog holding farms have several things in common, natural cover, hay/pasture and numerous metal equipment buildings and idle rows of farm implements. Most of the ground hogs have been near the implements and buildings rather than in the fields.

There is a poison farmers use for ground hogs. Ive heard it called bubblegum poison before.

Don't know much about it either, but all my spots have dried up too. My record was 35 grounds in one day about 15 years ago. I shot one last year, seen two more but left them.

Coyotes take a lot too, and foxes. They are smart hunters. I remember my old golden retriever would kill a groundhog almost every day when I was a kid.

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Habitat loss is a big one. Just as SkyP says above, the southern Ontario acreage that was formerly pasture and hay fields is now being cash cropped for a better money return. If you Google or hit the OMAFRA website you'll get some stats and I'm sure the acreage loss will be sobering. Probably why a square of good hay now cost $7 per bale in many areas. It's another big reason why we've lost up to 85% of our grassland and insectivorous bird species in the past 10 years. I'm pretty sure you can add herbicide changes to the list. The average cash cropper is now using a chemical cocktail (everything from coated seed to ground spray) that includes a list of chemicals that are proven endocrine and hormone disruptors. Many of these have long residual life (in years) in the soil and water. Many of these chemicals are being directly linked to many of the current crashes in insectivorous birds, bats, bees, etc., etc. Not even the chemical companies have any clue of the synergistic effects when you put this mix of chemicals on the land. Some of the papers out there are sobering to read eg. direct links between loss of all our bats from white-nosed disease due to endocrine/immune system disruption from neonics used in agriculture. Think of the impact to Mr. groundhog from a farmer simply spraying a seeded hay field with the good old dicamba/2,4-D mix to control perennial/biennial weeds. Both chemicals have residual life and both are highly toxic to birds, mammals, etc.

Found them !!....this is by far the worse (?) year for g'hogs in this area. We used to rarely see them, now I have them living under the barn and my range shack. My dog has killed 3 already this year.

Can't say they're a problem, they're a great help in making the .22 dirty and to practice the hunting skills. :)

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Found them !!....this is by far the worse (?) year for g'hogs in this area. We used to rarely see them, now I have them living under the barn and my range shack. My dog has killed 3 already this year.

Can't say they're a problem, they're a great help in making the .22 dirty and to practice the hunting skills. :)

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I saw my first one yesterday, least number seen in 3 years of us being here, maybe your dogs scared one into my backyard.

There are probably a number of factors involved in seeing less ground hogs,everything from habitat loss to Coyotes; but have you ever considered our hunting practices could also be to blame. I have commented to guys about hunting them in the spring, as soon as they pop out of their holes... right in the middle of breeding season. If you are hunting them to eliminate a pest for the land owner, have at it, if you want to maintain huntable numbers, hunt smarter. Have any idea how many guys are hunting the Mount Forest, Durham, Varney area? Think of how close the area is to some major cities. Also consider the numbers being taken, just on this thread comments of 30 a day... that's 15 couples, having 2-6 young a year means around 30-90 are not born, do the math on shooting 70 hog in one day. Can we hunt them out, obviously if we continue to hit the same farm over and over, year after year. When I was younger a friend bought a farm that was over run, he wanted them controlled, they had not been hunted for years, first year anything that showed its head was taken, and there were a lot taken. The farm was decimated in one year.

Don't count ourselves out of the equation when it comes to lower numbers of hogs. I will continue to hunt hogs; but I limit the number I take off a property, and I only hunt after breeding season. I am taking ground hogs which makes my landowners happy, and gives me the time outdoors.

Oh, and they have gotten smarter, I see them along the roadway all the time, as if they figured out a safe place to be... there and the park in town.

Have you not noticed that in the area you are referring to, the farming practice has changed considerably.
The farms there used to have a lot of hay fields , pasture fields and fields that were allowed to go into fallow, no longer , now all these fields are either growing corn, soybean or some other grain crop.
This plus the fact there are many coyotes around that are perfectly able to get any ground hogs that are out in the open.
You may see some in fence lines, but these also are getting to be fewer as the farms are getting bigger and fence lines are taken out.

We used to hunt that area and around Durham , groundhogs galore but not now. Durham used to have a yearly groundhog shooting competition as the area was know for the abundance of them, but that has fallen by the wayside many years ago.

Most groundhogs I see nowadays are in the bush. Not they typical is the field as in days past. They are still there.

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The places we hunt the farmer says we are the only guys that hunt there. There has to be more going on my buddy has been hunting them there for 30 years and its only the last 5 or 6 years they have declined. I knw this year one of the farmers insisted we go talk to his neighbor as he was waiting for us to come up to hunt. We were there but beans were to high. The feilds also look cleaner with few visible burrows like we used to see

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We were there but beans were to high. The feilds also look cleaner with few visible burrows like we used to see

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You are very unlikely to find groundhogs in cultivated fields.

Quite the opposite up my way ... I have had to shoot a few right up and around the house and garden and have never had them about before.

In the last several years, I have and do see more groundhogs within the city limits than out in the country, see them around factories, parks and blvds. between the larger streets in town.
I guess there they are safer from predators, man and coyotes.

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Originally Posted by jaycee

In the last several years, I have and do see more groundhogs within the city limits than out in the country, see them around factories, parks and blvds. between the larger streets in town.
I guess there they are safer from predators, man and coyotes.

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There you have it. Coyotes have no problem eating ground hogs along with every rabbit, grouse, turkey, and any other animal in the woods.

The woods are a lot quieter around our area than they used to be simply because a hungry dog will literally eat anything.

Put down the ground hog gun and pick up the coyote gun.

we and other groups in our area have made a concerted effort and it is paying off.... slowly but surely.

My opinion based on our area - your mileage may vary.

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

There you have it. Coyotes have no problem eating ground hogs along with every rabbit, grouse, turkey, and any other animal in the woods.

The woods are a lot quieter around our area than they used to be simply because a hungry dog will literally eat anything.

Put down the ground hog gun and pick up the coyote gun.

we and other groups in our area have made a concerted effort and it is paying off.... slowly but surely.

My opinion based on our area - your mileage may vary.

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We are seeing tons of hares around this area, I am actually surprised, the coyote numbers are high, the fox numbers are coming back and the rabbit numbers are on an up swing along with the deer, the only thing that seems to be down in groundhogs, it is odd.

The only place the one guy had them was in his bean field they were off eating the tender young soybeans you could see the bare patches . The farmer actually had one of the neighbours where we always shoot beg us to come over. We saw one at 300 plus on a stump watching us ,

We used to hunt below Collingwood late 70's, early 80's. We used to drive up and do day trips. Two guys - we never shot less then 80 and one day we got 142. Hunted from sunup till sundown. Had a few nightmares were I could see hogs in a scope getting blasted. It would wake me up! There were hogs everywhere. Farmers would track us down when they heard the 22/250's going off. They would point to their farm in the distance and then point to the fields they had problems in. Then along came the coyotes and with it -MANGE. I think the combination of the two was the end. We went back about 6 years ago and drove probably 100 miles of back roads - didn't even take the guns out of the truck. We seen maybe 4 all day.
Anyway just thought I'd chime in. There were so many groundhogs back then it was scary. We'd actually hit a few with the truck every time we went.

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Originally Posted by Doug

There are probably a number of factors involved in seeing less ground hogs,everything from habitat loss to Coyotes; but have you ever considered our hunting practices could also be to blame. I have commented to guys about hunting them in the spring, as soon as they pop out of their holes... right in the middle of breeding season. If you are hunting them to eliminate a pest for the land owner, have at it, if you want to maintain huntable numbers, hunt smarter. Have any idea how many guys are hunting the Mount Forest, Durham, Varney area? Think of how close the area is to some major cities. Also consider the numbers being taken, just on this thread comments of 30 a day... that's 15 couples, having 2-6 young a year means around 30-90 are not born, do the math on shooting 70 hog in one day. Can we hunt them out, obviously if we continue to hit the same farm over and over, year after year. When I was younger a friend bought a farm that was over run, he wanted them controlled, they had not been hunted for years, first year anything that showed its head was taken, and there were a lot taken. The farm was decimated in one year.

Don't count ourselves out of the equation when it comes to lower numbers of hogs. I will continue to hunt hogs; but I limit the number I take off a property, and I only hunt after breeding season. I am taking ground hogs which makes my landowners happy, and gives me the time outdoors.

Oh, and they have gotten smarter, I see them along the roadway all the time, as if they figured out a safe place to be... there and the park in town.

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^this.. I know this year has been the worst for me, but between crappy/wet weather and a strangely busy work/family schedule...I've been out about 1/2 the number of times I would have normally been by this point in the summer. I only really got started shooting groundhogs maybe 7-8 years ago, and permission to hunt farms for them came with a "shoot them all" condition attached to it. If I ever made the mistake of saying "yeah...but I'm going to leave a few breeders so I have some to shoot next year" I'd probably be told to hit the road! lol Now, as a hunter...you can clearly choose to not pull the trigger and achieve the same thing without anyone knowing...just not hunt at those times, etc.. but in my case...it sort of betrays the spirit of the agreement. Every one I've shot this year so far has been a male, and while I haven't been skunked...there have been at least 2, 1-groundhog-outings.

I don't know any of the guys who have posted so far, so I won't comment on whether or not I believe the #s being shot...but...my personal best day was 16. (my nephew and I) An average day is seeing maybe 6-8, shooting maybe 4-5. I consider those numbers to be a GOOD day of groundhog hunting. I've also heard the stories (FROM farmers) about how bad a problem they used to be. It's also been my experience that (like crows)...they sure come to recognize a threat from a distance. You see some sunning themselves on the side of the road...but when they see my truck pull over on the side of the fields I hunt, they book it~even if I'm over 200 yards away! They do learn, I'm convinced.

Should also be said~groundhogs prefer rocky soil that provides good drainage. In other words, there are fields...no matter how ideal they look..that are likely to never have a groundhog on them. Period. There may be groundhogs in fields on either side, but if it's a sandy one you're in-no dice. Some hunters look at every field the same way, and lump them together (mentally) when in fact, there are important differences.

Why are their numbers down? I think it's everything mentioned so far, though I've never had a farmer tell me he poisons them. People hunt them, coyotes do... Not sure about foxes, I think a big groundhog might be too ornery a meal option for one of those. Heck, foxes don't even LOOK threatening this time of year. lol I do know for a fact (because I've seen it) that some tough old farm dogs have a knack for killing groundhogs too.

Impacting my hunts (this year) is all the rain, and not because you can't shoot them when it's wet...rather..it becomes harder to gauge when hay might be cut, harder for farmers TO cut/dry/bale, etc. I used to be able to guess before making the drive...now it's anyone's guess. Hay seems to be on longer as farmers look for a sunny stretch to get it off. One Mennonite farm I hunt, he got it off before everyone else (not uncommon) and in a normal year...hot and sunny....that would leave a mid-summer window of a few weekends where it would be low, groundhogs exposed, etc. This year? It was a jungle one trip out...then I didn't get out for a few weeks. When I returned, it was nearly 10" high again! Cool nights, lots of rain=hay goes nuts.

So, less guessing about the root cause of the "decline" and more bi**hing about how crappy my season has been...but there you have it.

that is what Varney area used to be like too

My buddy has been going 30 years and keeps track of all he and the people he takes have shot He had over 10000 during the 30 years. We used to have 70 kill days and then about 8 years ago they dried up and he used to leave some for seed.

If action is what you want...
Pack up the truck and head to prairie dog country...

'Last two trips netted about 400 kills a day.

I brought 3 bolt guns an AR15 and a pistol... All of which were put to use...

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Originally Posted by Gaoler

If action is what you want...
Pack up the truck and head to prairie dog country...

'Last two trips netted about 400 kills a day.

I brought 3 bolt guns an AR15 and a pistol... All of which were put to use...

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^this. Already planning my spring/2018 trip. :) Pretty sure those prairie dogs are a different critter than the Richardson's Ground Squirrels (=gophers) we hammer in western Canada though. Larger for one thing. I use a 22LR with custom-modified, gaping hollow points as well as a 17HMR. Both hit very hard on something the size of a gopher. I love groundhog shooting here, and got 3 in fairly short order this past Sunday. However, last spring...on the day we arrived, I'm confident I got more gophers in 3 hours than the total # of groundhogs I've ever connected with. I won't even estimate the # we got by week's end.

Again, I love going after groundhogs but some time spent out west sort of re-wires the way you think about varmint hunting! :)

I'll be driving g through the prairies first week if September...
'Still debating... Do I pack a rifle or not...?

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Originally Posted by Gaoler

I'll be driving g through the prairies first week if September...
'Still debating... Do I pack a rifle or not...?

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I would. :) However, long afternoons of high-ammo consumption and lots of targets~highly doubtful of course.

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Originally Posted by Gaoler

AR15 and a pistol... All of which were put to use...

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Hunting in the US?

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Originally Posted by Fox

Hunting in the US?

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Of course....
Attachment 35495

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Originally Posted by Gaoler

Of course....
Attachment 35495

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Nice, I just saw a guy from Burlington talking about hunting with pistols and ARs, not something anyone in Ontario is allowed to do.

I've seen that photo before Gaoler..envy factor of 11/10. :) I'm a traveling varmint-shooter too, and maybe I need to expand my horizons a little... but I honestly can't think of anywhere I'd rather be, or anything I'd rather be doing. About as much fun as a guy can have with a rifle. At least as far as I'm concerned.

Fighting the urge to hand-load a whack of .223 and ship my centerfire rig out there. Truth is, just too many gophers to make that a smart financial move. lol Good problem to have. Required for prairie dogs though, bigger critters. A US trip would be a blast...one day... With an AR? Can't even wrap my mind around that. :)

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Originally Posted by Fox

hunting with pistols and ARs, not something anyone in Ontario is allowed to do.

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Not these days anyway...

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Originally Posted by GrouseWhisperer

I've seen that photo before Gaoler..envy factor of 11/10. :) I'm a traveling varmint-shooter too, and maybe I need to expand my horizons a little... but I honestly can't think of anywhere I'd rather be, or anything I'd rather be doing. About as much fun as a guy can have with a rifle. At least as far as I'm concerned.

Fighting the urge to hand-load a whack of .223 and ship my centerfire rig out there. Truth is, just too many gophers to make that a smart financial move. lol Good problem to have. Required for prairie dogs though, bigger critters. A US trip would be a blast...one day... With an AR? Can't even wrap my mind around that. :)

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Thing is... Where I shoot in Colorado is 1000km CLOSER to SW ontario than anywhere in Southern Sask.
The only down side is the exchange rate on the $, but factor in cheaper gas in the US and you might be breaking even on cost.
And don't fret over taking your guns into the US... The permit is free and really, it's no big deal crossing. 'Done it dozens of times.
It is novel hunting with the AR and next to impossible to get hits using a pistol, but... What the hell.

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Originally Posted by Gaoler

Thing is... Where I shoot in Colorado is 1000km CLOSER to SW ontario than anywhere in Southern Sask.
The only down side is the exchange rate on the $, but factor in cheaper gas in the US and you might be breaking even on cost.
And don't fret over taking your guns into the US... The permit is free and really, it's no big deal crossing. 'Done it dozens of times.
It is novel hunting with the AR and next to impossible to get hits using a pistol, but... What the hell.

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Sounds awesome. My shooting is all in S. Alberta, and 95% of it is done with a .22LR. Not because it's the most entertaining...but because it's effective, and inexpensive. Were we shooting 30-50 a day, I'd be down for .223. Cranking over 300 before lunch time (2 guys gunning) happened several times, and we were back out for another 4-5 hours of shooting! It was nothing to put 500-700 rounds down the pipe a day. 22LR is the only caliber that makes sense to me with those numbers. I love 22LR anyway...just a huge bonus to be able to varmint shoot so effectively with it.

I know this is an old post but the subject question is still valid. Coyotes seem to be the villain by previous postings. This may certainly be true and, if so, they certainly are proficient. The reason I looked this up is that My wife and I just travelled south through the Beaver valley to Ancaster and didn't see a single groundhog burrow roadside the whole way down. I didn't see much pasture land either. I hunted groundhogs on several dairy farms out Copetown way quite a few years ago. Plentiful 30 years ago; not a trace now. Thinking disease??

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Originally Posted by Lightspeed41

I know this is an old post but the subject question is still valid. Coyotes seem to be the villain by previous postings. This may certainly be true and, if so, they certainly are proficient. The reason I looked this up is that My wife and I just travelled south through the Beaver valley to Ancaster and didn't see a single groundhog burrow roadside the whole way down. I didn't see much pasture land either. I hunted groundhogs on several dairy farms out Copetown way quite a few years ago. Plentiful 30 years ago; not a trace now. Thinking disease??

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Great first post. Welcome aboard. Being a dedicated varmint/predator hunter from a l-o-n-g way back,all the fields where I took a ton of g'hogs now all have houses on them. I doubt a specific disease wiped them out or we'd have heard all about it long ago. Like everything else that seems to be disappearing,habitat (no such thing as a fallow field anymore) is at the top of the list. Predation from an over abundance of Coyotes and Bears in the southern range comes in a close second. I like to hunt Coyotes in the "off season",too,but,it's been a few years since I've even seen a g'hog.

I grew up in Ancaster and hunted them in the sixties while in high school. There were so many you could go after them with a .22. I go up there now and all those fields are full of houses. However even when you go out a little further to open fields I rarely see one. Hard to believe coyotes were responsible for the almost total wipe out. My guess is some disease.
rodmcd

Same disease that cleaned out the jackrabbits, and right now the deer population around northern 82A and 84 "coyote" disease

Yup, they’re tough to find. We have an old city property nearby that was used maybe 20% for landfill and the rest is just fallow…the kind of property that would be loaded with them 30 years ago, and I’ve never seen a burrow there yet. Lots of coyotes howling at night though….

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Originally Posted by jlmorgan

Same disease that cleaned out the jackrabbits, and right now the deer population around northern 82A and 84 "coyote" disease

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Shush;)-perhaps one of them Nutcakes-dreaming the coyote is a precious animal, which has a place in our ecosystem -will hear you and not like it.
After all-at least BY them nutbars, it DOES NOT matter, that the coyote is not native to Ontario.
Who cares-they will defend coyote till the last groundhog /grouse/deer ...etc.

Like-those animals do not matter.

Before moving north a few years ago, seeing a ground hog in the south was a rarity. The first few months in the north, I saw more groundhogs along the roads and field edges than I had seen in the last ten years down south. Ground hog roadkill is common place here.

In the '70's and 80's there was a bounty on coyotes in Simcoe County. I had NEVER seen or even heard of a coyote in those days. There were groundhogs everywhere. The county dropped the bounty on coyotes and the rest is history. Rabbits, groundhogs, grouse...I miss the good old days.

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Originally Posted by mark_t1012001

In the '70's and 80's there was a bounty on coyotes in Simcoe County. I had NEVER seen or even heard of a coyote in those days. There were groundhogs everywhere. The county dropped the bounty on coyotes and the rest is history. Rabbits, groundhogs, grouse...I miss the good old days.

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Just another example of the days we live in-there are animals with rights, and animals without rights.
Coyotes are overrunning the country side-non native here in Ontario-wiping out many species they can put their mouth on-YET no Government dares to do anything effective against them,due of the fear from Animal "RIGHTS" groups.

Pathetic.

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Originally Posted by gbk

Just another example of the days we live in-there are animals with rights, and animals without rights.
Coyotes are overrunning the country side-non native here in Ontario-wiping out many species they can put their mouth on-YET no Government dares to do anything effective against them,due of the fear from Animal "RIGHTS" groups.

Pathetic.

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It never ceases to amaze me that a very small,but,vocal handful of screaming and foaming-at-the-mouth animal rights whackos can paralyze a government,but,almost 3 million firearm owners can't.

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Originally Posted by gbk

Just another example of the days we live in-there are animals with rights, and animals without rights.
Coyotes are overrunning the country side-non native here in Ontario-wiping out many species they can put their mouth on-YET no Government dares to do anything effective against them,due of the fear from Animal "RIGHTS" groups.

Pathetic.

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Boils down to money allocation. money for coyote removal or supporting hospitals. They could raise the hunting fees and create a bounty fund but how would that go over?
At the moment the government has given free reign no closed season no limit.
Guess if those that are that concerned with coyote populations would go after them with the same zeal as them animal rights people problem solved.