B.C. Bans Trophy Hunting Grizzly Bears

No rhyme or reason other that it's now politically incorrect...

The inevitable backlash thanks to those idiot Hunters who posted that video a few years back...

https://www.oodmag.com/community/sho...hlight=grizzly

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The purpose of the ban isn't because the number of killings is unsustainable for the grizzly population, but largely in response to public opinion, Donaldson said.

"People in the province have come to their understanding, their point of view that the trophy hunting of grizzly bears is not a socially acceptable practice in B.C. in 2017,'' Donaldson said.

The ban also fits into a renewed wildlife management strategy for the province and fulfills an election promise made by the NDP, he said.

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http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/08...ef=ca-homepage

Ok so......they can only be hunted for meat now, but hunters are not allowed to keep the hide, heads and paws etc?

So now the meat will be saved, but the other parts of the bear will be wasted.

Way to think it through BC!

Sigh....

More anti-gun, anti hunting rhetoric from the left-coast.

Grizzlies were not under any exceptional amount of pressure. This act by the province is an exercise in caving in to public ( albeit ignorant) opinion.

I suspect that many of the outfitters who guided for Grizzlies will be feeling the pain.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

I suspect that many of the outfitters who guided for Grizzlies will be feeling the pain.

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Yea I can't see that the US clients would be to happy spending $15K and go home without something to hang on the wall.

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Originally Posted by bigtedd

Ok so......they can only be hunted for meat now, but hunters are not allowed to keep the hide, heads and paws etc?

So now the meat will be saved, but the other parts of the bear will be wasted.

Way to think it through BC!

Sigh....

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I have been told by guys in BC that nobody eats grizzly bears...the hunt is strictly for the hide and head...

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

I have been told by guys in BC that nobody eats grizzly bears...the hunt is strictly for the hide and head...

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When I was in the Yukon I was told that Grizzlys are delicious, as long as they are not feeding on salmon.

I really have mixed sentiments over this issue,kind of like watching a mother-in-law drive off a cliff in your new truck. I (I think like most hunters) find the idea of "trophy" hunting to be very unethical,even distasteful having being raised to believe that if you aren't going to eat it,you don't shoot it unless it's a varmint. Having said that,though,we need to tread carefully because it's only a short step for the government to ban certain hunting,outright,as we saw in 1997 with the Harris Conservatives caving in to pressure from a special interest group when they closed the spring Bear hunt as a matter of political expediency. It looks to me like BC may be dealing with the same type of issue. Unfortunately,Grizzly's are a hell of a lot more dangerous than your average Blackie.

Bear meat tends to really hold the flavous of whatever its been eating.

I know personally that black bears that have been dining on berries and other plants have excellent tasting meat. The one that have been eating carrion and other foulness are kind of awful to eat.

I would imagine Grizzlies are similar

I have been told that black bears with access to a dump taste like pampers!

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

I have been told that black bears with access to a dump taste like pampers!

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Doesn't that just tantalize the ol' taste buds.LOL

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

I have been told that black bears with access to a dump taste like pampers!

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How would anyone know what pampers taste like ???? Just askin'.......?

i've heard the same. don't eat salmon dining bears, everyone has the picture of the majestic river flowing and a brown bear catching it fresh from the stream which is true but they also start eating the dead ones which is where the problem lies. anyone who's fished a river with dead salmon on the bank knows that smell, i wouldn't go near any animal that's been eating that. Grizz that have been eating up in the mountains should be pretty good tasting i would think

i've read that these salmon eating brown bears are called kodiaks and other brown bears that don't dine on salmon are grizzly.

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Originally Posted by parkcity

i've heard the same. don't eat salmon dining bears, everyone has the picture of the majestic river flowing and a brown bear catching it fresh from the stream which is true but they also start eating the dead ones which is where the problem lies. anyone who's fished a river with dead salmon on the bank knows that smell, i wouldn't go near any animal that's been eating that. Grizz that have been eating up in the mountains should be pretty good tasting i would think

i've read that these salmon eating brown bears are called kodiaks and other brown bears that don't dine on salmon are grizzly.

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All bears eat fish...Kodiaks are basicly the larger coastal version of Grizzly. They get larger because of more protein in their diet...

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

How would anyone know what pampers taste like ???? Just askin'.......?

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Ha Ha ,I assume he meant they taste like the contents of said pampers :thumbup:. How he knew what that tastes like I have NO idea

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Originally Posted by MikePal

No rhyme or reason other that it's now politically incorrect...

The inevitable backlash thanks to those idiot Hunters who posted that video a few years back...

https://www.oodmag.com/community/sho...hlight=grizzly



http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/08...ef=ca-homepage

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The upside of course is the grizzly population will have the opportunity to expand. If the same thing occurs out in B.C. as happen here in Ontario when the spring black bear hunt was cancelled. The bear - human encounter are likely to escalate as the bear population grows and humans crowd into the bear's habitat. Problem is grizzly can be a tad more aggressive than a black bear. It will probably make for a great market place for bear spray, while at the same time result in a lot of human misery. If you are an environmentalist that doesn't have to deal with such occurrences, it might appear that you won a great victory. Those who have to deal with the aftermath such encounter may see it other wise. JMHO.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

The upside of course is the grizzly population will have the opportunity to expand. If the same thing occurs out in B.C. as happen here in Ontario when the spring black bear hunt was cancelled. The bear - human encounter are likely to escalate as the bear population grows and humans crowd into the bear's habitat. Problem is grizzly can be a tad more aggressive than a black bear. It will probably make for a great market place for bear spray, while at the same time result in a lot of human misery. If you are an environmentalist that doesn't have to deal with such occurrences, it might appear that you won a great victory. Those who have to deal with the aftermath such encounter may see it other wise. JMHO.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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This is personally why I'm gonna sit back and watch as grizzlies or kodiaks tear through human encampments (camps, cottages, small towns) and with increased encounters. Not that I wish for it. THEY ASKED FOR IT. Which means I most likely will have to delay some of my hiking in future BC. Problem is that's where my younger brother, ski medic and forest fire fighter is at. ....

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

The upside of course is the grizzly population will have the opportunity to expand. If the same thing occurs out in B.C. as happen here in Ontario when the spring black bear hunt was cancelled. The bear - human encounter are likely to escalate as the bear population grows and humans crowd into the bear's habitat.

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If these numbers are true ....the 'trophy' hunt barley makes a dent in the population. If this ban only prevents those 80 gizzy's a year from being shot, it won't have any affect on the overall population.

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The government said there are an estimated 15,000 grizzlies in B.C. and 250 are killed by hunters every year.

Of those, and average of 170 are killed by resident hunters while 80 are taken by non-residents.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

If these numbers are true ....the 'trophy' hunt barley makes a dent in the population. If this ban only prevents those 80 gizzy's a year from being shot, it won't have any affect on the overall population.

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Not 80 Mike...250 per year combined between resident and non-resident hunters....and I would bet a lot of them are large MALES. Large AGGRESSIVE Males. Without them removed from the population how many bears will be pushed into new areas looking for territory of their own. Pretty much the same thing that started happening with the black bears here in Ontario.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Not 80 Mike...250 per year combined between resident and non-resident hunters....a

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But still .. 250 is only 1.6% of the estimated population....negligible affect.

I didn't add the 170 to total number because the article doesn't mention what % of the resident hunters sustenance kills....ie...bear that will still be killed even with the new regulations.

The 80 non-resident ..is strictly trophy hunting....and represents only .5% of the population..

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Originally Posted by MikePal

But still .. 250 is only 1.6% of the estimated population....negligible affect.

I didn't add the 170 to total number because the article doesn't mention what % of the resident hunters sustenance kills....ie...bear that will still be killed even with the new regulations.

The 80 non-resident ..is strictly trophy hunting....and represents only .5% of the population..

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Be it 250 being removed isn't around the number of black bears being taking in the spring hunt before it was cancelled. The number of grizzles in BC coming into conflict with people may take longer to reach a critical tipping point then the black bears in Ontario, but it will happen. Like you said there is not many people that are going to pay 1500 or more to hunt and not take anything home. I also think the changes will also cause a lot of of the resident hunters to stop hunting as well, so few bears would be taken each year. So if there are not many hunters buying tags, what do you do....Increase the number of bears a person can take each year? The greenie weinies heads would to reaching orbit.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

But 250 being removed is around the number of black bears being taking in the spring hunt before it was cancelled.

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Just to clarify the numbers...there is a big difference between the annual harvest rates of 1.6% (B.C Grizzy) and 5-6 % (Ontario Black bear)

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In the eight years leading up to the spring bear hunt cancellation, it was estimated that an average of 6,783 bears were harvested annually by resident and non-resident hunters. Roughly 60 percent of this annual harvest was taken during the spring hunting season, primarily by non-resident hunters (Backgrounder, 2009). Going back through the last fourteen seasons from 1999 to 2012, the estimated combined legal harvest for trappers and hunters is 75,754 black bears. This gives an expected annual average of 5,411 and therefore places Ontario in an acceptable harvest range of 5-6 percent of the total population. From 1999 to 2013, 62 percent of the estimated black bear harvest were taken by non-resident hunters.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Just to clarify the numbers...there is a big difference between the annual harvest rates of 1.6% (B.C Grizzy) and 5-6 % (Ontario Black bear)

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Sorry spell check got me..

The first sentence should say
" Be it 250 being removed isn't around the number......"
Point I was making was that the new regulations would pretty much end grizzly hunting in BC. With the hunting ended they would see the same effect as we did with black bears, but it will probably just take longer.
If bear numbers go up because no one is hunting, 1) increasing tags will not help. 2) increasing tags would have Anti's rioting in the streets.

I hear you, but the bear numbers aren't the foreseen problem in any of these decisions...it's how it economically affects the province. The loss to the Grizzy hunt will cost the province $millions in tourist dollars and the loss of many jobs and way of life for countless outfitters.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I hear you, but the bear numbers aren't the foreseen problem in any of these decisions...it's how it economically affects the province. The loss to the Grizzy hunt will cost the province $millions in tourist dollars and the loss of many jobs and way of life for countless outfitters.

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But it will make a few people in Victoria and Vancouver happy, until that bear comes into their tent at night because they kept food in there and has to be shot and wasted.

A study last year contradicted conventional wisdom of that premise....

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The study — published in the Nature group journal Scientific Reports — found that killing grizzlies led to a slight increase in human-bear conflicts in subsequent years.

The increase in conflicts, though not statistically significant, might be explained by the continued presence of attractants or the social impact of the kills on other bears. Hunting had no impact on the frequency of conflicts.

“What we found challenges a common assumption in wildlife management, that killing bears is necessary to reduce conflict,” said lead author Kyle Artelle, a PhD candidate at Simon Fraser University and scholar at the Hakai Institute.

Data suggest that reduced food supply — especially when bears are feeding in advance of hibernation — is the driving factor behind conflicts between humans and grizzly bears, Artelle said.

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worth a read...http://vancouversun.com/news/local-n...-c-study-finds

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Originally Posted by MikePal

A study last year contradicted conventional wisdom of that premise....

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I just meant that people who have no idea what bear country is are the ones pushing for the change.

I hate that Trophy hunting would even be considered though, do they actually allow you to just waste the bear meat in BC? If you kill it you should be doing so for a reason, just for the hide is not an idea I agree with, if you eat it and take the hide then fine.

Hunting grizzlies or any other animal is regulated and managed as a renewable resource. I would look at any research into a hot button animal like Grizzlies with suspicion. First who is funding the study and secondly does it cover all the grounds where grizzlies are hunted? My guess is they studied the easily accessible salmon eaters not inland grizzlies hunted while on moose or sheep hunts. Follow the money and you'll find the agenda. With an NDP/Green government you can expect common sense and science to be run over by anti everything ideology.

I personally don't believe in trophy hunting. if you shoot it, you eat it. Now is it still trophy hunting if a guy waits for that big buck or bear then shoots it and eats it. Hangs the antlers or mount on the wall or floor? I saw NO. But those that shoot something for the horns, antlers or whatever and leave the reset behind need to be jailed IMO.

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Originally Posted by Fox

, do they actually allow you to just waste the bear meat in BC? If you kill it you should be doing so for a reason, just for the hide is not an idea I agree with, if you eat it and take the hide then fine.

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We touched on this in an older thread ...because of the higher probability of trichinosis, I don't think B.C. and Alberta require you eat the meat from bear.

https://www.oodmag.com/community/sho...gality-Alberta

Some trophy hunters, going to Africa, are happy with just a picture so it might not be the best way to stop it for good.

Personally, I hunt to eat or get rid of varmints so it won't affect me but it isn't good to lose one more battle.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

A study last year contradicted conventional wisdom of that premise....

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The study — published in the Nature group journal Scientific Reports — found that killing grizzlies led to a slight increase in human-bear conflicts in subsequent years.

The increase in conflicts, though not statistically significant, might be explained by the continued presence of attractants or the social impact of the kills on other bears. Hunting had no impact on the frequency of conflicts.

“What we found challenges a common assumption in wildlife management, that killing bears is necessary to reduce conflict,” said lead author Kyle Artelle, a PhD candidate at Simon Fraser University and scholar at the Hakai Institute.

Data suggest that reduced food supply — especially when bears are feeding in advance of hibernation — is the driving factor behind conflicts between humans and grizzly bears, Artelle said.

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worth a read...http://vancouversun.com/news/local-n...-c-study-finds

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If the increase was so small that it was statistically irrelevant than why even mention it? I guess the author of the article failed his probability and stats course in college/university. If reduced food supply is the real issue i.e. the population exceeds the carrying capacity in a given area than there are really only 2 ways to fix the problem. The first would be to increase the food supply (carrying capacity) or second reduce the population to match or be below the area's carrying capacity. This implies to me the historical mortality rate from all sources is too low and needs to be raised. The easiest way to accomplish this would be to hunt more not less. Maybe they need to go from the 1.6% you mentioned earlier to the 5 or 6% we do here.

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Originally Posted by seabast

Some trophy hunters, going to Africa, are happy with just a picture so it might not be the best way to stop it for good.

Personally, I hunt to eat or get rid of varmints so it won't affect me but it isn't good to loss one more battle.

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The meat from animals killed in African "Trophy Hunts " as some people call it goes to the locals. In most cases it would not be possible or safe to try to bring all the meat home. Temps and lack of cold storage means that shot today eaten by tomorrow is how it is done.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

The meat from animals killed in African "Trophy Hunts " as some people call it goes to the locals. In most cases it would not be possible or safe to try to bring all the meat home. Temps and lack of cold storage means that shot today eaten by tomorrow is how it is done.

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Snowwalker I thought that was the case too, but not always it appears. This from KMG Canada's post https://www.oodmag.com/community/sho...son-2017/page2

"some of the meat is served in the lodge to our hunters. Some is then consumed by our own staff and workers. Some is turned into biltong (South African style jerky). Anything left after that is sold into market. In South Africa game meat can be purchased in the supermarket much like we would buy beef or chicken. The animals on your land are your property unlike here. This system encourages land owners to keep game for trophy hunting (income for the hunt) and selling of the meat (income from meat sales). This system can make it more profitable to keep your land wild, rather than domesticate it for sheep and cattle."

Cheers

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Originally Posted by smitty55

Snowwalker I thought that was the case too, but not always it appears. This from KMG Canada's post https://www.oodmag.com/community/sho...son-2017/page2

"some of the meat is served in the lodge to our hunters. Some is then consumed by our own staff and workers. Some is turned into biltong (South African style jerky). Anything left after that is sold into market. In South Africa game meat can be purchased in the supermarket much like we would buy beef or chicken. The animals on your land are your property unlike here. This system encourages land owners to keep game for trophy hunting (income for the hunt) and selling of the meat (income from meat sales). This system can make it more profitable to keep your land wild, rather than domesticate it for sheep and cattle."

Cheers

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I was trying to say that you are not going to be flying home with ice chests full of elephant and zebra. It's not like hunting for deer or things over here. Just getting the hide or horns home can take awhile and the right paperwork.

This is nothing more than NDP buying votes for the next election which will be within a year. There is no science involved just urban votes. The simple solution would be, like black bears, is the edible meat must be taken. Grizzlies are expanding thier range in BC, sightings are reported every year of bears in areas close to Vancouver. The tree hungers would have you believe thier numbers are threatened and are only in remote parts of the province. There are hunters here who do keep the meat and say it's no different than black bear and yes you don't want a bear that has been eating dead fish. Yes it's the big boars that are targeted, it's illegal to shoot a sow with Cubs and by reducing the number of mature boars the Cubs have a higher survival rate. A number of hunters here don't agree with or are on the fence with the hunting of Grizzlies for the hide, skull and claws but understand it's a management tool to control the population at a sustainable level. As I said a simple change requiring the removal of the meat is all that was required.

Great headline for a foreign paper;

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Canadian Government Caves to Anti-Hunters, Bans Grizzly Bear Hunting in British Columbia

Pressure from anti-hunters has caused government officials to put an end to grizzly bear hunting in British Columbia, Canada.

It’s being reported by BBC, that British Columbia’s new NDP government has announced – going against scientific data that supports the need for grizzly bear hunting in that province – that this season will be the last for grizzly bear hunters.

Apparently, hunting grizzlies for meat will still be permitted throughout the province, except for one off-limits Great Bear Rainforest. In addition, it appears that steps will soon be taken to ensure it’s illegal for a meat hunter to possess the hide, head or claws from a harvested grizzly.

This move is being viewed as big victory for anti-hunters and some environmental groups, but it’s a very unpopular decision in the eyes of hunting guides.

“We are not going to be very supportive. We’re very worried about the ripple effect it will have on small businesses in rural British Columbia,” said the executive director of the Guide Outfitters Association of British Columbia, Scott Ellis.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

The meat from animals killed in African "Trophy Hunts " as some people call it goes to the locals. In most cases it would not be possible or safe to try to bring all the meat home. Temps and lack of cold storage means that shot today eaten by tomorrow is how it is done.

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So trophy hunting for Grizzly might still go on, just find someone to give the meat to (guide friends....).

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Originally Posted by seabast

So trophy hunting for Grizzly might still go on, just find someone to give the meat to (guide friends....).

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It's not trophy hunting if you can't take home the trophy. No hides, claws/teeth, heads or anything. The locals can go out and shoot their own meat. Cheaper for them to do it then for me or you to pay 1500 to put meat in their freezers. But I believe that tags in BC are on a draw system, so even if a local wants to hunt a grizzly they have to win in the tag lottery. Never put in for a grizzly when I lived in BC, always hunted black bear. Buy a tag go hunting.

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Originally Posted by seabast

So trophy hunting for Grizzly might still go on, just find someone to give the meat to (guide friends....).

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The government closed that loophole by making possession of the hide, head and claws illegal, even for licenced resident hunters.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

The government closed that loophole by making possession of the hide, head and claws illegal, even for licenced resident hunters.

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I understand that but some guys will be happy with just a picture (just like in Africa), the guides need to agree to take the meat, that's all.

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Originally Posted by seabast

I understand that but some guys will be happy with just a picture (just like in Africa), the guides need to agree to take the meat, that's all.

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Guess a guy could make some real coin if he had a stuffed bear to take pictures with. Why stop at bears..."Rent a fish, Rent a Duck.....and so on.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Guess a guy could make some real coin if he had a stuffed bear to take pictures with. Why stop at bears..."Rent a fish, Rent a Duck.....and so on.

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I have seen a good friend of mine getting is picture taken with someone else fish. I alway got a good laugh about it....




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If anyone is following this topic; good article pointing fingers were they should be pointed

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"It's not a matter of numbers. Society has come to the point in B.C. where they are no longer in favour of a grizzly bear trophy hunt," Natural Resources Minister Doug Donaldson told reporters Tuesday in a conference call.

Bear scientists agree that the estimated 15,000-grizzly population in the province is in no real danger because the number of bears killed each year — 250 — is controlled in a carefully managed lottery.

"It's easy to point at hunting, but hunting is not the problem," says Andrew Derocher, a University of Alberta bear expert, who says grizzly bears can be hunted in a sustainable manner in the province. Derocher said loss of habitat is a much bigger threat.

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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...tion-1.4251815