Another " Mass Killing "

Last nights Nat. News , it was reported that a " Mass Killing " took place in Texas be an " Ex , U.S. Air Force 26 year old serviceman ", all dressed in black, walked into a Baptist Church and started shooting, killing 26 innocent people while they were praying .

Now according to Joepa,

[COLOR=#000000] "When you have a country where the people all look alike,think alike and act alike you have a much stronger country "

They did show a picture of the killer, and he did not look any different than anyone else but I guess that he did not think like all those innocent church goers , and he certainly did not act alike

What is going on ? Why is there so much hate there , that makes it unsafe to even go to church where up to now, was considered a safe haven , a place of peace !

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/06...-killings.html

One shoe bomber tried to blow up a plane and now we take off our shoes. 1520 mass shootings since Sandy Hook and US Congress has done NOTHING.

There is some meat to Joe's comment if you look at China for example. The murder rate there is 1/100,000 while the murder rate in the States is 4.5/100,000.

I know there are other mitigating factors such as 'Freedom of Expression' in the States but it seems to eventually come down to the number of firearms available to Americans and the availability of non-state sponsored news media that carry these shootings in depth giving shooters their moment of glory.

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Originally Posted by sawbill

There is some meat to Joe's comment if you look at China for example. The murder rate there is 1/100,000 while the murder rate in the States is 4.5/100,000.

I know there are other mitigating factors such as 'Freedom of Expression' in the States but it seems to eventually come down to the number of firearms available to Americans and the availability of non-state sponsored news media that carry these shootings in depth giving shooters their moment of glory.

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The penalty for murder in China is very strict "Death ", the penalty for much lesser crimes is also "Death " or at the very least, "Life in prison " and by that they do mean "Life " . you are there doing hard labour till you die!

There are however other major crimes in China:

Corruption[COLOR=#54595D][edit[COLOR=#54595D]]

Further information: Corruption in China
The PRC is a one-party state ruled by the Communist Party of China,^[9] Corruption exists in China.^[10][11] just like in any other country. The cost thereof to the economy is significant. Between 1978 and 2003, an estimated $50 billion was smuggled out of the country by corrupt officials.^[12]
Human trafficking[COLOR=#54595D][edit[COLOR=#54595D]]

Further information: Human trafficking in China
There are instances of human trafficking reported in China for various purposes.^[13] The majority of trafficking in PRC is internal and this domestic trafficking is the most significant human trafficking problem in the country.^[13]
Women are lured through false promises of legitimate employment into commercial sexual exploitation in Taiwan, Thailand, Malaysia, and Japan.^[13] Chinese men are smuggled to countries throughout the world for exploitative labor.^[13] Women and children are trafficked into PRC from Mongolia, Burma, North Korea, Russia, and Vietnam for forced labor and sexual slavery.^[13]
Drug trade[COLOR=#54595D][edit[COLOR=#54595D]]

Further information: Illegal drug trade in China
PRC is a major transshipment point for heroin produced in the Golden Triangle.^[13] Growing domestic drug abuse is a significant problem in PRC.^[13] Available estimates place the domestic spending on illegal drugs to be $17 billion.^[14]
Domestic violence[COLOR=#54595D][edit[COLOR=#54595D]]

Further information: Domestic violence in China
China has a high rate of domestic violence.^[15] In 2004, the All-China Women’s Federation compiled survey results to show that thirty percent of the women in China experienced domestic violence within their homes.^[16]
The true extent of domestic violence is unclear due to the lack of related law and execution of the law. The Chinese government is in the process of "planning" to pass a "draft of anti-domestic violence law".^[15]
Crime dynamics[COLOR=#54595D][edit[COLOR=#54595D]]

Illegal guns[COLOR=#54595D][edit[COLOR=#54595D]]

From January to July 1996, approximately 300,000 illegal small arms were seized from fourteen provinces of the country.<sup>[9]


It is by far "not a nice place to live "</sup>

Lots of wacko's out there, the thing is, guns are just a more efficient method of killing available to the general public. If they weren't available then the wacko's would resort to something else such as running into crowds at high speed with cars and trucks.

JC, Its often been said that a person does not commit a crime with the thought that they'd ever be caught. Even when one commits murder, the idea that they are going to be caught does not enter into the commission of that crime so facing a death penalty or life imprisonment is no deterrent.
If you ever watch 48 Hours there is a certain element of American society that immediately revert to a firearm at the slightest provocation. If they had no firearm available and could only resort to fisticuffs in the heat of the moment I suspect there'd be far fewer murders, just more black eyes.

Don't worry there will be many more. Usually one per week.

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Originally Posted by JUDGE

Don't worry there will be many more. Usually one per week.

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There's on average 2 per day

This just proves my point - too much diversity - at one point things like this were very rare when most people were like minded - now you have large number of people with all kind of thought, cultures, background, morality, etc. etc. - things are only going to get worse - its is getting to a point that you better be packing when you go anywhere - it wasn't like that when I was growing up - we never locked our doors - left the keys in the ignition - girls could take a walk after dark - most people believed that a person would have to answer to their creator for what they did in this life - life was considered precious - even in the womb - the whole society is going down the tubes - bad behavior is accepted while good behavior is scorned - just look that the crap on TV - look at our public schools - they are more like zoos than a place of learning - no wonder many look at Western society as evil - in the meantime make sure you have enough ammo -

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/06...ck-kelley.html

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Originally Posted by Fisherman

Lots of wacko's out there, the thing is, guns are just a more efficient method of killing available to the general public. If they weren't available then the wacko's would resort to something else such as running into crowds at high speed with cars and trucks.

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The gunman was also denied a Texas gun permit, according to Abbott.- [Greg Abbott -Texas Governor ]

"He was rejected either because he did not fully answer all the questions that are required to get a Texas gun permit, or he answered those questions wrong, that we still don't know," he said.

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Originally Posted by JoePa

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/06...ck-kelley.html

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And he was still allowed to own guns.... It's hard to believe you can't see the obvious issue.

Sometime Joe we have to give up a freedom for the good of others. We all hate it but unfortunately the world has changed and there is no comeback.


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Originally Posted by JoePa

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/06...-killings.html

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Now one thing that I found unreal with you guys is every time there is a mass killings you always turn it as a positive event by showing off your heroes. Just like a movie!


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Joe, your diversity argument is not supported by white people killing white people. Your statements about society going down the tubes isn't wrong but there are many reasons for it.

Race is only one factor when you talk of diversity - there are a dozen of other factors that come into play -

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Originally Posted by seabast

And he was still allowed to own guns.... It's hard to believe you can't see the obvious issue.

Sometime Joe we have to give up a freedom for the good of others. We all hate it but unfortunately the world has changed and there is no comeback.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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The US Air Force publicly admitted that they failed to notify the FBI about the suspect's situation which would have precluded him for firearm ownership. Your statement regarding limiting some freedoms for the benefit of the greater good? Let's see how you feel when the Liberals do just that and all your guns are seized. You'll be singing a different tune,then,won't you?

The killer was ultimately a COWARD , as he shot himself, Coward ! because he couldn't face the finale outcome of what would happen to him for what he had done .
A Coward because he picked on innocent church goers one of them being a young child that was killed.
He was not tough enough to call out the Sheriffs office and tell them that he would be out gunning for them, instead he picked on people that could not defend themselves.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

The US Air Force publicly admitted that they failed to notify the FBI about the suspect's situation which would have precluded him for firearm ownership. Your statement regarding limiting some freedoms for the benefit of the greater good? Let's see how you feel when the Liberals do just that and all your guns are seized. You'll be singing a different tune,then,won't you?

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Alright, so let me drive drunk then because if all that matter is my own freedom it should a no brainer! Right?

Once again, wheres all the good guys with a gun? Gun manufactures love these shootings. Ruger and American Outdoor aka Smith&Wesson sales have gone up 30%. Since Sandy Hook all the shootings have the same common denominator and thats the AR-15 platform

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Originally Posted by Bonkers

Once again, wheres all the good guys with a gun? Gun manufactures love these shootings. Ruger and American Outdoor aka Smith&Wesson sales have gone up 30%. Since Sandy Hook all the shootings have the same common denominator and thats the AR-15 platform

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The AR-15 is simple the most popular firearm in the states. It's like Saying Ford, Dodge, and Chevy are bad because they are the largest make of car in accidents.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

The AR-15 is simple the most popular firearm in the states. It's like Saying Ford, Dodge, and Chevy are bad because they are the largest make of car in accidents.

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What makes the AR the most popular platform is likely its ability to accept high capacity mags!!!!

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

What makes the AR the most popular platform is likely its ability to accept high capacity mags!!!!

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It's popular because it is the latest in a long Line of rifles resembling what gramps, dad and you carried in the military. There are many firearms that have a "high capacity" option. High capacity is a phrase that is never defined. Does it mean ten rounds( yup ten rounds is considered high capacity), 25 rounds, 50 rounds,.....six rounds in a cylinder?

Yup! Exactly! I hunt with a Ruger No 1 so a side by side is high capacity for me.

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Originally Posted by sawbill

Yup! Exactly! I hunt with a Ruger No 1 so a side by side is high capacity for me.

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When your Ruger No 1 is chambered in 45-70 or 416 Rigby there is no need for a second barrel:silly:.

Joe, you mention Diversity and include this guy as being a problem. What exactly makes him different than any other white American male? He was a member of the Air Force, went to church, shot guns, sure he beat his wife and kid but that was proven to be no big deal and as he was still allowed to buy guns. How does he fit your definition?

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Originally Posted by Fox

Joe, you mention Diversity and include this guy as being a problem. What exactly makes him different than any other white American male? He was a member of the Air Force, went to church, shot guns, sure he beat his wife and kid but that was proven to be no big deal and as he was still allowed to buy guns. How does he fit your definition?

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He doesn't - cause he was nuts

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Originally Posted by JoePa

He doesn't - cause he was nuts

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Exactly. Everyone knew he was nuts. The military dropped the ball when he was discharged,his family knew and said nothing to anyone. He even escaped from a mental hospital. If we look at every incident of mass shooting rampages,this is the common denominator in virtually every one of them. Someone KNEW and did NOTHING to give law enforcement a "heads up". President Trump was absolutely correct. This was a mental health issue,not a gun control issue. Until the Liberal/Left and the MSM get their heads wrapped around this concept,the wheels will just keep spinning and going nowhere.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Exactly. Everyone knew he was nuts. The military dropped the ball when he was discharged,his family knew and said nothing to anyone. He even escaped from a mental hospital. If we look at every incident of mass shooting rampages,this is the common denominator in virtually every one of them. Someone KNEW and did NOTHING to give law enforcement a "heads up". President Trump was absolutely correct. This was a mental health issue,not a gun control issue. Until the Liberal/Left and the MSM get their heads wrapped around this concept,the wheels will just keep spinning and going nowhere.

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Wouldn't a gun in the hands of a mentally ill person being a gun control issue?

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Originally Posted by Bandwagon

Wouldn't a gun in the hands of a mentally ill person being a gun control issue?

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It seems like that for some it only depends on your political view ;)

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Originally Posted by Bandwagon

Wouldn't a gun in the hands of a mentally ill person being a gun control issue?

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Other than the fact the mentally ill person shouldn't have access brings us back full circle to the issue of mental illness. He could have lobbed in a handful of dynamite sticks taped together with a single short fuse,right?

I've read snippets of what was posted here, not all, so please excuse me if I'm repeating anything.
I agree with one of the earlier poster's messages, I've also heard that increase the severity of a punishment
related to a crime does not necessarily impact whether a person decides to do it or not. It is always done with
(a) thought that you won't get caught and/or (b) heat of the moment/emotions take over/not thinking straight.

I agree with the statement that guns don't kill, but people do. If they don't have guns, and they want to kill, they'll find
another way (cars, homemade devices, nail guns, etc, etc).

So the question comes down to people. How do you identify and monitor high risk individuals on a frequent enough basis
(an individual can change in what ... 3 months?)? Is it even possible. We probably will conclude it's not ever going to be 100%
efficient.

Because of that some will argue that taking guns off the streets will prevent mass killings. But that then needs to take guns away
from the other 99.9999% that are law abiding citizens. And then there's the argument that law abiding citizens that are armed can
actually take down mass killers (such as with the recent unfortunate incident).

Having said all that, I do hope that the NRA will or can at least demonstrate that they have independently reviewed their rules, and identified
any areas of potential improvement. They should be opening up dialogue with the general public, and demonstrating that (a) yes guns don't kill, people do, and (b) how the rules attempt to minimize the risk of a gun getting in the hands of crazies. Then at least through legal avenues, they can say they've done their due diligence. As for illegal avenues, that will always exist ... and that's up to the police to figure out, not NRA.

Its Texas. Sutherland Springs chief of police suggested that more people should be packing when they go to church. Only in the States would this statement be made!

Exactly. I thought that too.

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Originally Posted by JoePa

He doesn't - cause he was nuts

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So he was nuts so Diversity?

So what are your plans to deal with mental illness in white males? Should he have been put in jail for being mentally ill? Should they have kept him from getting a firearm?

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Originally Posted by Fox

So he was nuts so Diversity?

So what are your plans to deal with mental illness in white males? Should he have been put in jail for being mentally ill? Should they have kept him from getting a firearm?

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The fact that this guy was nuts should have been noted in the FBI data base so that he could not legally buy a gun - that being said there is no way that will guarantee someone who is nuts cannot get a gun - there are over 350,000,000 guns in the U.S. - so there are plenty of ways someone can get a gun - people who knew this guy should have let the police know that he was off the charts so that some action could be taken that would at least identify him as a risk and this should also be in the FBI data base - there is no sure way of preventing gun related crimes unless all guns were taken away from everyone - and that ain't gonna happen - so the only thing left is to arm yourself so that if you happen to be at a place where some nut starts shooting you at least have a way of defending yourself and others - that's just the way things are now-a-days - it wasn't always like that - as I have previously mentioned - society is going down the tubes

You got to be ready to meet your maker because you never know if this may be your last day - every time you step into you car you got to realize that thousands die or get severely injured every year and you never know if you will or will not be one of them - you can only do so much to protect yourself - me, I drive a big pickup and carry a .38 special -

I am so thankful I do not live in the U.S.A

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Originally Posted by sawbill

Its Texas. Sutherland Springs chief of police suggested that more people should be packing when they go to church. Only in the States would this statement be made!

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Now Michigan has tabled a law allowing concealed carry in formally “no gun carry” zones !!!! What could possibly go wrong ????