Can a Lung Shot Deer Run 400 yards?

This deer was shot at 45 yards broadside with 90gr FFG and 240 gr Hornady XTP bullets. After the shot, he turned and went back the way he came, and by the time he was out of my sight (100yds) he was trotting. He made it 400 yards through the bush and died in a bedding area. I didn't find a drop of blood on the snow until I found the deer, but there was hair on the snow where I shot him. After I found him, I could only find blood for about 30 yards tracing his tracks backward, he bled out internally.

Shot placement is high for sure, but still in the bread basket. Just a reminder to do your homework! Tag applied immediately after the photo.

Attachment 36161

IMHO...the 'Double Lung' is a Hail Mary shot, center of mass that does lethally/mortally wounds the deer, but then you have to wait till it kills them. If it wasn't a very damaging hit, they can go some time/distance before they die. I have shot deer straight thru the heart and the 'fight/flight' reflex still takes them sometime 50-100 yds.

I'm not a fan of jacketed bullets for MLs. I like a soft lead bullet that flattens out like a $.50 piece, expending all the kinetic energy inside the deer.

Congrats on the nice looking Buck, sure wish we had snow down, hopefully by the time Dec rolls around for our ML season.

That is crazy when you can't find blood even in the snow... Nice recover job. Looks like a nice deer
Congrats

No. A liver shot can.

I don't post a lot on this forum these days, and usually try to post where I feel I can help others. This post was intended to encourage hunters to go the extra mile when searching for their game.

I have been fortunate to harvest 30+ deer over the years (this was the third for 2017) and have been fortunate to conduct necropsies on deer with some of our nations leading pathologists. I know what lungs and liver are. The liver is untouched, in my father's freezer and this deer had a hole in its lungs.

I have no doubt that the odd lung shot deer could make it that far. On a typical vitals shot (non-CNS) the reason the deer goes down is due to loss of consciousness not because it is dead. Loss of consciousness typically occurs due to a catastrophic drop in blood pressure. Depending on how the lungs are hit will determine how quickly the resulting blood loss causes unconsciousness. Even if both lungs are collapsed and the deer can't breathe at all it will still go a long way if the blood loss is not rapid. Just think of how long you can hold your breathe - say 2 minutes - so if the deer had just inhaled right before the shot it can probably travel for that long or longer if the blood loss is not too much. Best shot for blood loss is the top of the heart - take off the arteries and allow the heart to pump out of all the ruptured arteries and the blood pressure will drop to critical inside 5 or 10 seconds.

Never had one go that far myself with the gun but I did have one go 205 yards (this was the straight line distance as measured with a range finder) on a textbook double lung pass-thru arrow shot.

Congrats on the buck and finding it!

I had two bucks run 400 yards with a single lung and a heart shot. The second one cross the stream so I saw everything. No blood until it stopped running and it took about 10 steps and dropped dead.

nice deer congrats

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Originally Posted by MikePal

like a $.50 piece

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... what's that? ;)

Obviously, yes a deer can run with a double lung. I agree, sticking with the trail regardless of blood or not, is an important lesson that everyone needs to learn. I carry a roll of marking tape just for that purpose, it is a pain going back and picking up all of pieces of tape; but if I am, it means I have found the deer. Being a bow hunter, usually in a 20' stand a number of my kills have required trailing deer by prints until I can find blood, sometimes even then it can be difficult. I make a point of tracking/trailing the deer even if I watched it go down, in my opinion it is a necessary skill and one that should be practiced. The worst was a single lung, the deer kicked and ran up the trail out of the bush into a silage stubble field then a short cut hay field, the deer had done a wide loop and died in a fence line, for what-ever reason there was not a lot of blood, trying to pick up his tracks among all the other tracks that exited the bush into field was difficult; but personally rewarding with the knowledge that I had done it.

Wow that's nutz & glad you found that nice buck.

Perhaps the projectile didn't have the required velocity to expand & destroy the lungs. Black powder guns can do some funny things if moisture gets to the powder. Sometimes they go bang but with minimal powder burn & slow bullet speed.

One thing for sure is they are amazing animals with an incredible will to survive...

My buck kill this year literally shredded the lungs & it went down in about 50 yards using the 300gr Hornady XTP projectile. The XTP offer massive expansion & true knock down power. The smokeless muzzle-loader velocity helps too... lol

We had a guy at the camp hit a doe hard in the chest, thought it was a double lung but ended up just being one lung. A 270 Win to one lung and the deer went over 1km from the point of impact to where it dropped. I have also witnessed a deer hit in the heart by a 180gr 30-06 go 100 yards before laying down and it still did not die for a few minutes, if it had kept running (or swimming in this case) it would have had the potential to make it a long way before it ran out of blood.

They can do amazing things.

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

Wow that's nutz & glad you found that nice buck.

Perhaps the projectile didn't have the required velocity to expand & destroy the lungs. Black powder guns can do some funny things if moisture gets to the powder. Sometimes they go bang but with minimal powder burn & slow bullet speed.

One thing for sure is they are amazing animals with an incredible will to survive...

My buck kill this year literally shredded the lungs & it went down in about 50 yards using the 300gr Hornady XTP projectile. The XTP offer massive expansion & true knock down power. The smokeless muzzle-loader velocity helps too... lol

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Velocity is exactly what I'm thinking. This is actually the second buck that has made it 400 yards with a double-lung with this gun. A friend of a friend has a chronograph so I'm going to see if I can get him to help me compare to manufacturer's specs. I also ordered some new powder, going to try Pyrodex RS and see how it compares by the chronograph. The gun is an absolute tack driver at 100 yards so I hate to monkey with the load, but punching paper and killing deer are different things!

He was the third buck I dropped this year and the other two went down easier. One went 30 yards (wasn't spooked) and the other made it 70-ish.

Sounds like you are shooting an ML-II? I won't pretend I'm not jealous! My old Thompson Center Black Diamond has put a good 30 deer in the freezer over the years, but it is time to reexamine its performance.

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Originally Posted by benjhind

This deer was shot at 45 yards broadside with 90gr FFG and 240 gr Hornady XTP bullets.

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Originally Posted by benjhind

Velocity is exactly what I'm thinking.

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That powder/bullet load will give you well in excess of 1800 fps at 40yds....that is not your problem.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

That powder/bullet load will give you well in excess of 1800 fps at 40yds....that is not your problem.

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Mike can you expand on what you meant in your first post by "a double lung shot (IYO) is a hail mary"... i was under the impression this is the shot everyone should be trying to achieve ? i have even read that lung shots traditionally result in shorter tracking jobs than heart shots as it more quickly deprives the brain of oxygen and they pass out as one of the other members pointed out.

To me, this potentially sounds like bullet performance rather than shot placement. maybe more of a FMJ type performance (not actually) than a proper expansion ?

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Originally Posted by parkcity

i was under the impression this is the shot everyone should be trying to achieve ? ...

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No...it can be one of the least effective shot..leads to tracking deer long distances and leaving poor blood trails.

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Originally Posted by parkcity

To me, this potentially sounds like bullet performance rather than shot placement. maybe more of a FMJ type performance (not actually) than a proper expansion ?

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That's not necessarily true, but the main reason I don't like jacketed bullets.

IMO...Shot placement plays a big role in bullet performance, if it expands in a cavity and doesn't strike a 'vital' then it pretty much just makes a bigger hole on the way out. If you hit the heart, liver etc, it destroys the organ and the animal dies quicker.

I prefer the neck shot myself, especially at sub 50 yds, the deer dies the moment the bullet hits and it drops in its tracks. I shot three bucks last year , all in the neck and not one took a step. Last week the deer was at 100 yds so I opted for the heart shot, (see my thread with pic)....the deer again dropped where it was standing.

To get an idea with pros/cons; https://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/bi...-deer-one-shot

If you look at the pic in the link, you can see a high shot, like the OP said was made, could have missed anything that would see the deer die quickly. The shot was obviously fatal, but it took longer than it should and you risk loosing the deer.

I'm not afraid to admit I've made some horrible shots in the past. I've been very very lucky only loosing one deer (hit in the briscut with archery gear)
my longest recovery was about 1000yards on a high lung shot and actually had to go swimming for him
my nerves got the best of me a lot when I started out so I spent a full season just aiming at deer without shooting that pretty much cured me of the jitters
deer are crazy tough animals a solid hit can sometimes be deceiving and a chest cavity takes a long time on a large buck to fill with blood

Dan

Thanks Mike, good read.

from that article, i personally gather that i will remain taking heart / lung shots. At this point i don't have the confidence or the knowledge to take any other for which the error is too great. i'm not even rifle/muzzleloader hunting this year to maybe a moot point but good for future events.

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Originally Posted by parkcity

Thanks Mike, good read.

from that article, i personally gather that i will remain taking heart / lung shots. At this point i don't have the confidence or the knowledge to take any other for which the error is too great. i'm not even rifle/muzzleloader hunting this year to maybe a moot point but good for future events.

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A high shoulder hit will drop them in their tracks, with not much meat loss. A good hit when there is danger of the deer leaving your property.