Muzzleloader Virgin

I am planning on joining the muzzleloader world. I have been doing alot of research and notice that rust is an issue. I generally clean all my guns at the end of wet hunts and the end of the season. With pure ignorance I ask why muzzleloaders appear to have such a barrel rusting issue?
Also as an affordable and seemingly reliable starter gun I feel as though I am leaning towards a cva wolf. Does this seem like a good choice?
Not being a rifle shooter I am not familiar with the ballistics and charges that I have been reading alot about. Any suggestions for a good educational read that could get me up to snuff with loads and charges?

T

the rust issue is with the black powder or substitutes being corrosive compared to smokeless, google any info you might need, check out modern muzzleloader forum

A CVA wolf is an excellent muzzleloader gun for the money...... Mine shoots really well and most reviews have it shooting good right out of the box....
I am using, 2 triple 7 pellets, 300gr SST bullets..... accuracy is about 2-3" group from a bench at 100yds...

CVA wolf on CGN..$250.oo with some accessories

CVA wolf is a great starter.

Like all guns...keep it clean and keep it oiled...then not a problem.

Like bdog said, Original Black Powder (Goex) is corrosive and has to be cleaned well. The 'substitute' powders like Pyrodex and T7 are not near corrosive and clean easy with hot water. Just wipe it down with a good CLP when your done.

Sam Fadala has an excellent book on black powder definitely worth a read. I learned a lot from it

My go to M/L gun is the entry level T/C Impact loaded with 90 volumetric grains of Blackhorn 209 powder and a 250 grain sabot. No rust and easy to clean utilizing ordinary gun cleaning solvents. It has served me well over the years having taken a few bucks with it.

Currently on sale at Cabela's.

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/19516...t-muzzleloader

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/90478...gun-case-combo

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Originally Posted by impact

My go to M/L gun is the entry level T/C Impact loaded with 90 volumetric grains of Blackhorn 209 powder and a 250 grain sabot. No rust and easy to clean utilizing ordinary gun cleaning solvents. It has served me well over the years having taken a few bucks with it.

Currently on sale at Cabela's.

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/19516...t-muzzleloader

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/90478...gun-case-combo

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The combo package is a real deal, considering that you get another $25 off in the form of a mail in rebate. Great way to get into muzzleloading. If you decide you like it, you can always proceed to upgrade if you want.

I'm going to catch some heat for this but save your money and buy a Savage 10ML ii smokeless gun.

It eliminates all the cleaning and rust issues that are part of the traditional ML scene. Used ones are going for th same price as a top end traditional smoke pole.

I was the only one in my group of 4 that has one. After our hunt a few weeks ago 2 more have bought the Savage and we are now the majority.. Lol

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

I'm going to catch some heat for this but save your money and buy a Savage 10ML ii smokeless gun.

It eliminates all the cleaning and rust issues that are part of the traditional ML scene. Used ones are going for th same price as a top end traditional smoke pole.

I was the only one in my group of 4 that has one. After our hunt a few weeks ago 2 more have bought the Savage and we are now the majority.. Lol

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Oh but you'll miss the smell of sulphur and all the other joys of smoke poles

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Originally Posted by lazyman

Oh but you'll miss the smell of sulphur and all the other joys of smoke poles

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It's like you get cheated if there is no smoke...LOL

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

I'm going to catch some heat for this but save your money and buy a Savage 10ML ii smokeless gun.

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Can't get past spending 4x as much for an ML to shoot deer at 100 yds..like buying a Lexus LS instead of a Camry to get to work :)

X3 on the TC impact, I bought one about 3 years ago and have no reason to upgrade. I started out using the poyrodex pellets but fond them to be real dirty burning and leaves a crude ring in the barrel not to mention it is corrosive. I switched to blackhorn 209 and couldn't be happier with it. Clean burning and much less corrosive. You can take multiple shots with it and not have to worry about swabbing the barrel, the last shot will load just as easily as the first shot. The little bit of residue it does leave behind actually acts like a lubricant making for easy loading shot after shot. I bought these small clear plastic powder viles that I fill with pre measured charges that I keep in my pocket while hunting making it just as convenient to load as the pellets, just pop the cap and pour the powder down the barrel. I highly recommend anyone using the pellets to try blackhorn 209 powder, you will love it.

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Originally Posted by fishhawk

You can take multiple shots with it and not have to worry about swabbing the barrel, the last shot will load just as easily as the first shot.

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so using BH209 gets rid of the crud ring, you don't have to go to smokeless...go figure :)

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

I'm going to catch some heat for this but save your money and buy a Savage 10ML ii smokeless gun.

It eliminates all the cleaning and rust issues that are part of the traditional ML scene. Used ones are going for th same price as a top end traditional smoke pole.

I was the only one in my group of 4 that has one. After our hunt a few weeks ago 2 more have bought the Savage and we are now the majority.. Lol

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Hmmm......shooting an entry level ML with BH209 that takes deer consistently every year and is also easy to clean and does not rust. What ever am I going to do with the money saved?......lol

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Originally Posted by impact

What ever am I going to do with the money saved?......lol

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Buy a Lexus LS of course ..LOL...

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Originally Posted by impact

Hmmm......shooting an entry level ML with BH209 that takes deer consistently every year and is also easy to clean and does not rust. What ever am I going to do with the money saved?......lol

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Nothing wrong with putting out more money for better quality...in my opinion hunting equipment is an investment...the more you invest the more you have to play around with come time to sell or trade up...cant knock a guy cause he has a prettier gun then you...or I guess you already did...either way whats it matter what someone else spends their money on.

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Originally Posted by Deer Wrastler

...either way whats it matter what someone else spends their money on.

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No one criticized HIM for spending his money....we just mocked him for telling a new guy that he should 'save his money' to buy way more gun than he needs.

Like you said yourself, a Bushnell Banner is a good scope, you don't need to "save your money" to buy a Leupold.

I'd rather be over-gunned than under any day...lol

On the subject of scopes. I put a Leupold VXR 3x9x40 on my 10ML ii. Oh what a joy to hunt with... :)

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

I'd rather be over-gunned than under any day...lol

On the subject of scopes. I put a Leupold VXR 3x9x40 on my 10ML ii. Oh what a joy to hunt with... :)

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You are definitely a person that enjoys the finer things in life.

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Originally Posted by delmer

You are definitely a person that enjoys the finer things in life.

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Beware of the high cost of low quality optics & equipment... :)

Buy once cry once when I bought my state of art Knight MK85 it was up there in cost but I wouldn't trade it for anything now. But nothing wrong with not spending an arm and a leg as long as you can shoot what you're using well.By the way it's topped with a tasco world class 1 x 3.5 that holding strong.:)

Savage sounds like a great gun but I am not an acura type guy when a mazda will get the job done for me. I have been shooting a 12 gauge remington 1187 for 25 years now..... My Mathews bow is 20 years old! I assumed the wolf would be a work horse for me and the 2 weeks a year plus the shooting practice I would use it for. I am just hoping that if I do my part the gun will do its. I don't want a gun that will quit on me while I am doing my best to keep it working. It seems to me that no matter which muzzleloader I choose corrosion is an issue? That's why I would rather spend less and do the maintenance rather then spend alot and still have to do the same maintenance. If I was willing to spend alot I would go with the savage or maybe the remington 700ml?. Sounds like it is easier to prevent the corrosion with them. Love the shopping process though!! Was hoping for a black friday special...

I started out with the CVA wolf. It will get the job done under 100 yards & like others have posted start with the blackhorn 209 powder & research the best primers for that powder. It will save you a lot of headaches in the end.

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

I started out with the CVA wolf. It will get the job done under 100 yards & like others have posted start with the blackhorn 209 powder & research the best primers for that powder. It will save you a lot of headaches in the end.

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So your Savage has ballistics that pushes it that far further than a 50 cal CVA? I find it difficult to believe 2300fps vs 200fps will stretch your range out that much further. Maybe the CVA did not group well for some reason but the Savage may not group well either, the velocity of the Blackhorn vs smokless is not all that significant, essentially it is like comparing 308 win to 30-06, people will pick their sides but the deer will not notice what side they are on.

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Originally Posted by Fox

So your Savage has ballistics that pushes it that far further than a 50 cal CVA? I find it difficult to believe 2300fps vs 200fps will stretch your range out that much further. Maybe the CVA did not group well for some reason but the Savage may not group well either, the velocity of the Blackhorn vs smokless is not all that significant, essentially it is like comparing 308 win to 30-06, people will pick their sides but the deer will not notice what side they are on.

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The wolf I had wouldn't group worth a darn. It was the blued wolf that came in the plastic packaging like a BB gun.

I gave up on it & sold it...lol

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

The wolf I had wouldn't group worth a darn. It was the blued wolf that came in the plastic packaging like a BB gun.

I gave up on it & sold it...lol

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My son in-law started out with the same gun and had the same result. We spent a lot of time messing with it trying to find some consistency before he replaced it. A newer guy to our group has a T/C Impact, and for an entry level gun priced only slightly more than the Wolf, it performs very well. That is why I commented earlier in the thread that the Impact that is on sale at Cabelas is a very good deal for someone wanting to try muzzleloading without breaking the bank.

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Originally Posted by delmer

My son in-law started out with the same gun and had the same result. We spent a lot of time messing with it trying to find some consistency before he replaced it. A newer guy to our group has a T/C Impact, and for an entry level gun priced only slightly more than the Wolf, it performs very well. That is why I commented earlier in the thread that the Impact that is on sale at Cabelas is a very good deal for someone wanting to try muzzleloading without breaking the bank.

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That is the one that I have in my mind as well, a T/C hawken 54 cal as well, possibly a flinter down the road.

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

I started out with the CVA wolf. It will get the job done under 100 yards & like others have posted start with the blackhorn 209 powder & research the best primers for that powder. It will save you a lot of headaches in the end.

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Mine on the other hand, grouped really well using the inexpensive tasco scope it came with.... What's really well....for me it was 2-3" groups at 100yds...
2 triple 7 pellets followed up with a 300gr sst bullet.

Good groupings using an inexpensive muzzleloader may mean different things for different people....

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Originally Posted by fratri

Mine on the other hand, grouped really well using the inexpensive tasco scope it came with.... What's really well....for me it was 2-3" groups at 100yds...
2 triple 7 pellets followed up with a 300gr sst bullet.

Good groupings using an inexpensive muzzleloader may mean different things for different people....

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I consider hitting a Pie Plate at 100 yds Free hand with my . 45 Kentucky patch/ball a Bullseye ! :)

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Originally Posted by fratri

Mine on the other hand, grouped really well using the inexpensive tasco scope it came with.... What's really well....for me it was 2-3" groups at 100yds...
2 triple 7 pellets followed up with a 300gr sst bullet.

Good groupings using an inexpensive muzzleloader may mean different things for different people....

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With the gun I mentioned, a repeatable, 2-3" grouping would have been totally acceptable at 100 yards. Unfortunately, when the cross hairs were placed on a target with this gun, you never knew if it would be high, low, right, or left. Each shot was like a snowflake - no two were alike. A gun like that doesn't instill a lot of confidence into a hunter.