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The farmer thought he was doing a good deed. Not!
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...avan-1.4422727
"Reached by CBC News, Laplante said shooting the animals was an honest mistake. He said another hunter had spotted what were thought to be wild boars in the area about a week earlier."
I wonder why the OPP didn't strip these guys of their guns...they admitted they shot someone's pet without cause on private property. Hope the MNR lays charges.
Yikes!
CTV reported that a gun was confiscated.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
They asked for and received permission to hunt and said specifically what they were hunting. Even though it was mistakenly given by the owner,then,as an after thought,attempts to stop the hunters before it was too late,failed. Notwithstanding the fact that the hunter(s) couldn't tell the difference between domestic pigs and Wild Boars (complete fumbduckery on a grand scale :whacked:) and as long as they had small game licenses and were using proper equipment for the area they were hunting,I doubt they can be charged with anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
This really,really burns my a**. :madman: Guaran-damn-teed no land owner in the entire township will grant hunting permission to anyone to hunt for anything once this story gets around. Now,nobody needs to wonder why,either. :sad:
That’s not what I read.....the guy called and left a voice message asking for permission. He didn’t get permission. The owner tried to contact him to deny permission and couldn’t get hold of him......he went anyway !! At least that’s what I read and understood from the article.....sounds like a trespass to hunt charge at the very least!Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
X2....Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
This is what the article stated; Laplante had called to ask for permission to hunt on her Frank Kenny Road property.
"He thought there were two wild boars on our property," she said. "He essentially wanted permission to shoot the wild boars."
She tried to call him back to deny him permission but couldn't reach him. Nor could she reach him by email or social media.
He also said this ; [COLOR=#333333]Reached by CBC News, Laplante said shooting the animals was an honest mistake. He said another hunter had spotted what were thought to be wild boars in the area about a week earlier.[COLOR=#333333]Laplante said that's what he believed he was shooting at when he cornered the animals on Nooyen and Guilbeault's property.
[COLOR=#333333]Laplante said in hindsight, he should have realized they weren't wild animals.
[COLOR=#333333]"I wish my brain had clued in that these animals weren't wild. They weren't scared of humans. They weren't scared of us.
[COLOR=#333333]
Makes me wonder if he knows the difference between a domestic dog/pet and a coyote ?
I wouldn't want him hunting on my property.
From what I read permission was never granted. They trespassed and killed two tame pot bellied pigs. They deserve whatever maximum fines exist. Some people shouldn't hold hunting licences or PALs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Yup ! What a pair of idiotsQuote:
Originally Posted by terrym
What a clusterf^ck! Damn idiots.
Damn! That's really messed up.
That isn't do us hunters any favors in the anti's eyes
Dustin
No permission. They were trespassing.
"The police said, 'Your option is $100 trespassing fine,"Guilbeaultsaid, adding an officer suggested the coupleask the hunters for compensation.
"The file is now complete and no criminal charges will be laid,"
Wow, this is going to make hunters look real bad in that area. Good luck with anyone trying to get permission to hunt on private land in that area.
Yep,I misunderstood the way it was written. I thought she gave permission,then,tried to recall the hunter. Obviously not. That makes it even worse. That just defies imagination.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
you mean this wasnt covered in the hunters ed course????????? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by terrym
the article definitely reads that he asked permission in a voicemail then went out anyway, but due to the seemingly lack of penalty against him i almost wonder if she somehow implied and/or granted permission at the farmers market and he was following up with a phone call to let her know he'd be hunting that day? all speculation but maybe food for thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
it doesn't excuse any actions as it doesn't sound like he was given explicit permission and should obviously know what he's shooting at. bad look for hunting community for sure.
Interesting tidbit about pigs:
Forward to 1:18 - http://www.themeateater.com/podcasts...e-meateater-c/
I watched the owners interview this morning. The "Hunter" shot them 30' from their front door, even with permission I would be thinking twice before doing it.
Btw, the owner didn't seem anti hunter at all but he did say that this story will give us a black-eye, no doubt... IMO, this is a prime example when the OFAH should do a news release to explain that we condemn this kind of BS and the shooter should ban for life.
There is a lot of things here that doesn't pass the sniff test from the hunter.
Here's CTV's version:
http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/couple-deva...nter-1.3698649Quote:
A Navan couple says they are devastated and angry after their pet pot-bellied pigs were shot dead on their property, within metres of their front door.
The pigs, named Pickles and Rosie, were a big part of the couple's life, even taking part in their wedding party earlier in the fall. They say the pigs were playful and popular with children of their friends and families, who would often drop by to visit the two animals.
Matthew Nooyen and Lianne Guilbeault were at their respective jobs about three weeks ago, on Nov. 8, when Lianne got a call from a neighbour down the road.
The call went to voice mail. In the message, her neighbour asked Lianne for permission to shoot what he believed to be two wild boars on her property. They were roaming freely on the property and not enclosed in a pen.
Wild boars are considered an invasive species, and can be harmful to humans or pets, and can spread disease.
“I called back about 20 minutes later and left him a voice mail as he did not answer,” explained Guilbeault. “(Saying) do not shoot, they are our pet pot-bellied pigs Pickles and Rosie, they most likely got out of their pig pen, please do not shoot, you do not have permission.”
Guilbeault then sent her neighbour a Facebook message also telling him not to shoot the pigs on her property, before calling her husband Matt, asking him to go home and check things out.
When he arrived home, he says there were two men and two vehicles in his driveway. The men told him they were waiting to hear back from his wife about shooting wild boars on their property.
“I said she tried calling back, and that’s when they say, ‘my phone must be in the car,’” said Nooyen. “I said by the way, where are the pigs? They point out behind the cover all building.”
Nooyen searched the property for his pet pigs and called for them. They did not come as the normally would. Nooyen says he knew something was wrong.
He spoke with his wife about his encounter with the two men, one of whom was their neighbour, and the missing pigs.
She eventually spoke with her neighbour, who admitted to killing the pigs before realizing they were family pets.The couple says the news was shattering.
“(I was) shaking, crying, screaming, not understanding why, I don’t even know how I made it home, my husband was the same way, as soon as I called him, he was crying, screaming, this was my husband’s childhood dream, to have pet pigs,” Guilbeault said.
“I miss them every day, and I can honestly say I haven't been myself since this happened,” Nooyen said.
CTV Ottawa spoke with the neighbor responsible for shooting and killed the pigs. He says he is devastated by the outcome of his actions, deeply regrets what he did and wishes he could take it back. He says he believed he was doing a good thing by putting down two wild boars he believed may be harmful in the area.
He also says a friend, the man who was with him at the time of the shooting, had spotted what he thought were two wild boars in the same area on a different street about ten days before.
The man, who did not want to appear on camera or reveal his identity, says he was an emotional wreck after discovering that he had killed the couple's pet pigs, and not wild boars as he had first thought.
He says he realized his mistake when he saw the pig pen in the backyard, but at that point, it was too late. He also admits to initially lying to Guilbeault about the incident, but says he came clean when she asked him if any shots were fired on her property.
He says he offered to compensate the couple $1,000 for his mistake, but they countered and in a legal letter asked for $12,000, saying they would go public and pursue legal action if the neighbour did not comply.
He refused those terms, and says he felt the couple was being unreasonable.
The couple is no longer pursuing legal action and they say they want hunters to know what happened to their pet pigs was wrong.
The pigs, which the couple had had for about eight months, are now buried in the couple's yard. Standing by the grave markers, they recalled how Rosie and Pickles enjoyed their food, especially mango, and belly rubs from Nooyen.
The Ottawa police investigated the incident and say they have now closed the case without laying any charges.
The Ministry of Natural Resources is also investigating. A spokesperson for the ministry said it is a violation of provincial hunting rules to hunt on private property.
The Ministry said while there have been reports of wild boar in Eastern Ontario, they are not common.
The hunter's gun, which he says was passed down from his late grandfather, has been confiscated as the investigation continues.
Nooyen and Guilbeault say the killing of their beloved pets has left a hole in their lives, and they hope to help clarify hunting rules for others.
"“Trespassing is illegal," Guilbeault said. "Trespassing is not OK.”
It's all private (farm) land in that area. Most farmers grant permission to hunters on a regular basis -- especially for waterfowl. That will likely not change any time soon. Most of them are also hunters.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishhawk
Well CTV likes to spread the BS..
"The Ministry of Natural Resources is also investigating. A spokesperson for the ministry said it is a violation of provincial hunting rules to hunt on private property."
.....probably omitted........"without permission"
What's the best calibre for pot-belly pig defence? Too soon....?
All joking aside, a terrible outcome all around. Feel really sorry for the poor pet owners but also for the shooter who will be scarred for life because of a horrible decision he made. This incident is sure to pass down as lore.
Maybe now he will put his brain in gear before he pulls a trigger !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakon
There are too many out there that are just " trigger happy " they just have to kill something without thinking first and identifying the target , making sure that it is legal game .Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
This just confirms my post about the moose carcasses, guys shoot first then look after when it is too late.
" [COLOR=#000000]Maybe now he will put his brain in gear before he pulls a trigger !! as quoted previously;
The old saying " put mind in gear before putting mouth in motion " substitute finger on trigger , holds true!
I am starting to think maybe we should start calling you "Jaypa".:joker:Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Ouch. That was just plain mean. Lol!Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Just consider where it came from! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
Well I read all the comments and agreed with most of them - but here is my take on this incident - first off - the hunter is really stupid but it does make me feel a little better knowing that you got stupid people up here too - as far as the pig owners - they shouldn't have built their lives around a couple pet pigs - involved in a wedding - come on give me a break - then there is the question of the bacon - burying the pigs without butchering is a waste of meat - just think of the nice hams, chops and bacon going to waste - what we want is commitment - not the kind the chicken gives when it lays an egg - but the kind the pig gives when it gives the bacon - cheers
Are you really trying to tell people how to live their lives?
Are you really surprised he is?Quote:
Originally Posted by awndray
Quote:
Originally Posted by awndray
Yep, and he is the guy who talks about "Freedom".... Can't fix it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
Have you ever owned pets?Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
X3 ... seems like he left a message, and had no confirmation. Mistake #1.
$100 trespassing fine ... seriously?? I'd sue them in a civil court, $500k.
JoeP wants you to have the freedom to do what you want.....if he agrees with it! So sad about the pets.:( Maybe a hunting ban is in order for a few years followed by a retaking of the hunter safety course. Sort of like they do for your drivers licence when you do something really bad.
The hunting licenses for these two bright lads should be suspended for a year.
Not in Canada you wouldn't - not for 500k. He's already offered $1000 I think which well exceeds the 'real value' of the pigs in question.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
If you refused that settlement and sued for 500k, I'd guess you'd win nothing and have a big lawyer bill to boot.
Make it two, I think they should add on an extra year for stupidity. How anyone could be that dense is beyond me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
Cheers
Sadly it never seizes to amaze me the utter stupidity of some people.
No ain't trying to tell others how to live - and as far as freedom goes - someone should be able to say that something is stupid if he thinks so - some of you guys are all the same - if someone thinks differently from the way you think then it ain't any good - your way or no way - well I'll tell you something - down here we say what is on our mind - like it or not - we don't allow our government or popular opinion dictate how we should think - that is real freedom - yes I have owned pets -cats and dogs - not the kind you can eat - got a real nice cat now - maybe the hunter should have claimed that he shot the pigs in self defense - they came charging at him and he didn't have any choice - then sue the pig owners for keeping dangerous animals and letting them loose - cheers
Oh - still think it is a waste of good bacon -
"real freedom" lol
Doesn't any of you realize he is yanking your chains with the bacon and ham comments. What do you expect from them damn Yankees as my friend in Arkansas would say...;)
I wonder if he ever wonders why the rest of us are not on his local hunting forum...Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...723bb895eb.jpg
Sorry but people are getting fired from their jobs daily it seems down your way for expressing their sexual desires....lolQuote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
Because listening to one a- hole is enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Wrastler
Joe,Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
Does it not bother you that THE DONALD is such an individual who says what he likes and in the process is making Americans look stupid the World over.
Who cares what the world thinks of the U.S. - the hell with them - what has any of them ever done for the U.S. except take our money and blood - and you talk about being laughed at - what is this LGGBDTTTIQQAAPP program that is being pushed on teachers up your way - do you realize that you are being transformed into a society that the extreme liberals want and your freedom of expression is being taken away - you are being pushed to all think alike and if someone expresses a different opinion that offends someone it is a hate crime - wake up before it is too late -
And as far as those two pigs - they could at least have been donated to a food bank so some poor people could have some pork butts , hams, bacon, loins, chops and sausage - and all these sexual harassment claims coming out - did you notice that 99% of them are against liberals - the ones who keep claiming that they are for women's rights -
Freedom of expression is being taken away? Only if you are a straight white guy, who says the world would be better if everyone was the same, and have said so vociferously for generations, to keep others in their place. The world is filled with people who are not white or straight ,what about their freedom to be who and what they want, without persecution? What are you afraid of, others enjoying life as they see fit, or not being able to tell others their opinion is wrong , that yours is the only way to live.
You should write a book. Your knowledge is vast yet in-depth. Hell, maybe you could come here and teach us how to live.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
It wouldn't be the value of the pigs I'd be suing for. They are pets, part of the family, emotional distress, etc. That's worth a lot more.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, sorry, that right there is why everyone is laughing.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
What has any of them ever done for the US, well, lets start out with building a nation, your country is a country built on immigration, from every corner of the globe, unless you believe that your god started the world in Pennsylvania.
So Werner, someone comes on to your property without your permission and shoots 2 of your hounds, how about $1000, sounds about right, they are not worth that anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
See the problem here?
Good rebuttal fox, good one.
Moved this thread to the "Off Topics". It's just another sad pile of crap.
But like my brother used to say: Everyone likes a good crap once in a while.
Anyway, back to the original topic, because these are domestic animals MNR wouldn't be pursuing charges other than trespass to hunt. And no licence suspensions are ever handed down for a trespass charge that I know of.
What about shooting 30' from someone front door step? Is it allowed?Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
No specific offence generally, unless it was done carelessly . It would be subject to area by-laws.Quote:
Originally Posted by seabast
Well I feel, and I bet others do to, that more than a trespassing ticket is warranted in this instance. They are neighbors for gosh sake, I remember a story of a barn burning down for much less.
Agreed.... this is a classic example why there should be more teeth put into the trespassing laws...not long ago, some guy was fined $750.00 for camping longer than 21 days on crown land....trespass and kill family pets gets you a $100.00 fine !!!!! Unreal !!Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Emotional distress law suits will only make lawyers rich. In Ontario civil courts,emotional distress is never part of the equation. Even punitive damages are a rarity. We may only sue for the actual value of the item lost plus reasonable expenses. Obtaining a judgement is one thing,actually collecting is a whole different matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
Trim in this case, are you saying the couple should only get the price per pound for pork? That seems harsh, they were emotionally attached to their pets.
It is absolutely harsh,but,that's all a court can do. A Judge has to take the emotion out of it and rule in the cold,hard light of day. Livestock is merely a commodity that was lost,therefore,only the real cost is recoverable. The shooter offered $1K in compensation. The victims should have taken the money. I doubt they'll do that well in small claims court.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
That's not the way civil courts work in Canada.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
The cost you can recover in a civil court is generally the economic worth, not their emotional worth to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
So I'd still be upset about the loss of the dogs.
But if I could replace them for $1000 - from civil court perspective its a fair settlement
I really don't understand why we have all these posts offering opinions when they do not have a clue how civil courts work in Canada.
Too many people watching too much American TV I guess.
Yes lots are saying what the rules are, but do you agree with them? Should a pet NOT be worth more than the cost to replace them? When a neighbor broke the law to kill them? Imagine seeing the person daily and living next door to the person who broke the law to shoot your pet. As in another long ago post can anyone say ' spontaneous combustion'.
A lot of people think that way . They think it's a get rich quick way of thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
Maybe they want the penalty for such an egregious action to be more than a trespassing fine. As I feel it should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood
Trimmer21,Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
My wife was involved in a fatal car accident. She survived and the other driver did not. We were sued for civil damages and they were seeking some of the money for emotional distress. Insurance company ended up settling. So your statement isn't exactly true.
Dyth
Where someone sues for emotional distress in this instance is what I was citing. Fatal car crashes are a far different matter. Apples and oranges,Dyth,with all due respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
No, no I get that. You just made a general statement about the civil courts here in Canada. My roundabout point was while emotional distress isn't a massive factor like it is in the US, you can still make a claim for financial compensation here in our civil courts regardless of under what terms you are making a claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Dyth
What if you slipped in a parking lot in blizzard . What if you can't walk on a good day and you slip and fall in the snow ? Happens 'll the time . Drunk at 3 am and slip In the snow . The worst is like I said I have seen way to many who can barely walk on dry pavement yet out in the middle of a winter storm.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
In the north they walk to work in their boots then put the high heels on inside. Not in the city.
I see slip and fall claims all the time, most are preventable. The majority just settle with a small number. They want a easy way out . Most don't even have proper foot wear on. Yet it's a very common problem South of Barrie. Yes I have fallen in parking lots it's winter I bruised my elbow I won't sue them. I have slipped and fallen on the ice on the lake big deal it's winter. I have slipped an fallen my own property.
North of Barrie does not see this problem it's the city people that think the snow should just magicly disappeare as it hits the ground. But I guess that's why retailers pay so much for the snow removal there will always be a claim. Plus the hourly cost is in the thousands to run and operate in a major snow fall. It's not called white gold for no reason.
Even if you just had 1 contract in a blizzard you would not be able to keep it clear of snow. That is a fact .
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From killing beloved pets, to slipping in a parking lot......... quite the leap right there.:confused:
Just stating the fact there are a lot of people that will find any loop hole in the system to sue someone. People out there have made some serious coin in suing others through variuse loop holes. . Some I'm sure who trying to make a living off it.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
With good legal advice and knowing a few loops in the system can make you money . We live in a corrupted world . To some people money is the only thing in the world.
How many thugs by guns with bitcoin again it's currently leading the currupted underworld. Again with the loop holes .
I have heard people say if I slip and fall I won't have to work anymore. Many people think that way.
I was using the snow as example. My friend has been sued dozens of times over the past 20 years. again there is loop holes on his side as well . Some take a small amount he offers others choose to take It all the way and loose .
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This post should of clears things .Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
What was never mentioned ..
permission could of been permitted in their first discussion . Giving him permission before the phone call. He did have there number. He was only calling to confirm he was coming that day Case closed for trespassing. Yes other laws were broken they can deal with them.
But as a setlment and trespassing they are closed case on the first day. End of story.
Even if you did take it court you will by far spend more than you will receive.
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Pure speculation on your part !! Nothing in the article would lead to your conclusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood
Or unless you cheat and beat the system with the layers you could also beat the system and only pay a few hundred dollars their service. Yes there are loop holes there as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood
Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
It's all speculation I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Because only the people who are affected know what they talked about. If the home owner did not give them the ok . They would be charged with trespassing unless the home owner was willing not to press charges .
If they said no you can't hunt here in the first conversation I'm sure charges would be laid 100 percent
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Even if the land owner didn't give out right permission to hunt during their first conversation the hunter can always claim that she did - so who are you going to believe - I think that she did give the hunter permission otherwise it is pretty brazen to hunt on her land and so close to the house without permission - one other point - the ability to sue someone is a very valuable right - it is a way to keep people from running rough shot over you - we sue a lot down here when we think that we have been wronged - we even sue the cops when they over step their bounds - all you have to do is threaten someone that you will sue them if they do a certain thing and you see a changed encounter -
There's a tremendous difference in civil and criminal legalities between the US and Canada,Joe. Our civil law system is designed specifically to eliminate frivolous or vexatious lawsuits. In Canada,a litigant can win a law suit and still be required to pay all legal fees for both sides if their ability to pay is greater than that of the defendants. An further example would be nobody will ever win $100M settlement for a cup of spilled hot coffee.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
More - http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...lets-1.4434209Quote:
Christmas will arrive early — on or about Dec. 18, to be exact — for a Navan couple whose beloved pet pot-bellied pigs were shot dead by a confused hunter in Ottawa's rural east end last month.
Matt Nooyen and Lianne Guilbeault were devastated after an acquaintance apparently mistook the animals for wild boars and killed Pickles and Rosie just metres from the couple's Navan home.
Now a couple from British Columbia, hearing word of the tragedy, has reached out to Nooyen and Guilbeault with an offer to replace the pets with newly born piglets.
"I felt so bad for them." said Jeanne Kaminski from her West Kelowna hobby farm. "I was actually in tears when I read the story."
Cute little buggers !!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by awndray
Maybe,they'll name them Porky and Chop Chop.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Hope Air Canada doesn't leave them sitting on the tarmack in edmonton or Winnipeg for a couple hours between planes. They would be porksicles for sure.
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/o...ting-1.4438452
"Two men have been charged under Ontario's Fish and Wildlife Act with using a firearm without consideration for property, and trespassing for the purposes of hunting."
Very good, glad to see it.:thumbup:
Nice .
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Excellent!
Makes sense to me.