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I believe my house was built in the early '70's when aluminum wiring was acceptable. I suppose one of the first occupants added some more fixtures and used copper instead so now there's a mix of aluminum and copper throughout.
I want to add some LED pot lights to the basement area and the easiest way to do this is to run from an existing nearby box. This box is fed with aluminum wiring. Can I safely continue from there with copper to my pot lights?
You can.... I had the same issue. You have to get a special marret that’s specifically for copper to aluminum joints. Just make sure you don’t overload the circuit you are hooking up to.
As Rodbender posted.....best to get an electrician to do your work !!
hope your licence'd to tell him that cause now you liable if his house burns down it's in writing hereQuote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Yea, I thought of that....Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodbender
An electrician did mine.....
30 years 309A Licence in my pocket and i'd never tell anyone how to wire a house
Didn’t tell anyone how....just that it can be done as I had it done !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodbender
I wouldn't attempt to wire my house either but I'm not about to spend a small fortune to wire in a few pot lights in an open ceiling basement.
This house was wired by an electrician and passed by an inspector and for the first 10 or 15 years I had a constant barrage of flickering lights and blown fuses. I fixed all those issues on my own and have had zero problems since.
Available at Home DepotQuote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.a...000663916.html
There is also a product that electricians use called " No Alox " I see them put some of this on the wires then insert them into the marrets, it prevents the aluminum from oxidizing .
Years ago I built my own house. I got the permit, wired it myself, and had the inspector in every other day to inspect it. It’s not that difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
Rick, I did my entire camp w/o help. As you said, its not that difficult.
The stories I could pass along of licenced tradespeople who've done shoddy work on the two homes I've owned would make one cringe. Plumbers, electricians, furnace installers, insulators and roofers have all done plenty damage (Try having to pay off the balance of a gas furnace that was installed by a professional and rotted out within a year). So this is why I've elected to ask the guys on here for help and/or advice--then do the work myself. I know I'll take the time and do it right.
So for you guys who've offered up information--Thank you.
I paid to swap out all the aluminum wiring in a rental house I owned because I couldn't get it insured (built in '72). No company wanted to touch it without a Fire inspection. Not only would they not pass it because the aluminum wiring was of very poor quality,but,the install job was done badly. The Fire Inspector couldn't understand how it was passed when the joint was built. According to Hydro,at the time,aluminum wiring was in it's infancy . By today's standards,someone could have gone to jail.
Our whole subdivision was built when they used aluminum, as are others around here. I don’t know of one house fire in the past 40 years that was attributed to the wiring.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I know of two house fires that were wiring related from people mixing copper and aluminum fixtures (neighbor is a TFS FF). I'm not an electrician so I have no idea how it works except they shorted out,sparked and started to burn surrounding combustibles.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Problems with aluminum wiring were/are caused by shoddy workmanship by electricians who are in too much of a hurry to get the job done .Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
In 30 years as a full time fire fighter involved in many house fires, the ones that involved aluminum wiring were all put down to shoddy or poor workmanship upon investigation, ie; nicked wires when removing insulation, loops not fully formed around screws in receptacles , loose screws, not fully tightened onto the wires, or the worst, push in connections, this all lead to the oxidization of the wiring leading to arcing and finally to fires most were only in and around the switches, receptacles , small fires that were quickly extinguished.
With the information that is available in books and the internet one should be able to do most of their home wiring by themselves - just take your time and fully understand what you are doing - over the years I've done a lot of electrical work on the homes that I have owned - home wiring isn't rocket science - just because a licensed electrician does the job doesn't mean that it will be done right - a lot of times these guys are in a hurry and don't do things in the best manner - my son had a new home built and had all kinds of problems from sloppy work - but I add this - if you aren't sure of what you are doing then don't mess with it - get a electrician or someone who knows what he is doing -
We almost lost our house when I was a kid, that would have been about 1994 or so. The aluminum wiring in the breaker panel loosened up and shorted out, the wire burnt back inside the breaker box, melting the wire and was almost out of the box when my dad noticed the smell in the middle of the night. He was an Electrical Technologist, not certified to wire a house but knows how to wire a house, he fixed it temporarily before bringing in an electrician.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
There are tools and dopes out there, I helped a friend pigtail aluminum wires in a house he was selling, we did the work and an electrician checked it and proved it safe and legal.
The key here is that aluminum and copper expand and contract at different rates, when the loosen up they will make a bad connection and short, this heats up the wires and burns back on the line, this can burn down your house. Another problem with aluminum is that the oxidation of aluminum is very hard, it makes the aluminum brittle, it can crack when moved around and you may not know it, this can cause a stress riser in the metal which will cause an increased resistance and again generate heat.
Aluminum wiring is still used in industrial applications as it is a lot cheaper than copper but still perfectly safe when dealt with properly.
Best of luck, lots of books, you can always talk to an inspector in your area anonymously to figure out what you may need to be concerned about, ideally getting an inspection would be your best bet for insurance reasons.
Gentlemen a Lot has changed over the years as a Licensed Electrcian is telling ( I'm one as well ) you are supposed to have a permit for EVERY electrical job you do in your house. Pretty sure if you did some electrical work WITHOUT a Permit and that was found to be the cause of the fire that burnt your house to the ground then some Insurance companies will not cover you. Sawbill as for your question can it be done , yes it can, as someone stated above they have a paste that goes in the wires before the marrette is put on.
Change a light bulb, need a permit and an inspection, this is pretty much where it is going.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG MAC
The funny part is that when you call your municipality they wonder why you are even bothering to ask you about permits.
As a property manager, licensed trade, and a homeowner, I'll offer up the following.
1. Pull a permit.
2. Anywhere you are connecting new copper, to existing aluminum, use the approved Marrete connectors, utilizing No-Lox paste.
OP, I'm surprised you were able to obtain insurance without having the house wiring inspected. When I bought my 1972 bungalow, I had to have a licensed electrician inspect the house, including all device boxes. My contractor had two electricians attend, and spent the day going over every circuit, replacing non-compliant devices and connectors. It cost $800, but at the end of the day, the house is safe, and I have a letter for the file indicating that it conforms to current code.
Bought my house just over 3 years ago, no inspection outside of a general home inspection (huge waste of money) to get insurance and I even have a wood burning appliance. On top of that if you needed a full wiring inspection they would have to cut holes all over your house, it is not what you can can see it is what you cannot see, like hidden boxes or a lack of stapled wires, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Home inspectors are a sham.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Full wiring inspection wasn’t needed, as it was apparent that with most of the house, no upgrades other than fixtures had been done.
Surprising that your insurance carrier didn’t want a WETT inspection done either?
They needed the numbers, I took pictures and emailed the guy, no issues, they have the appliance tag on file too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
As for an electrical inspection, you can cover up a lot with drywall, just taking covers off does not really prove much, seems similar to a house inspection.
At least the house inspector got $1000 knocked off the price to patch the foundation, but the crack does not leak anyway.
I bought a home from 1973 last year. Paid a licensed electrician to rejuvenate, and I know we did extend circuits from aluminum, so it is possible. He used a special paste and marrete connectors. Anyhow, I know it's possible, but I recommend getting a licensed professional to do it. Last thing you want is for your house to burn down, and then insurance doesn't cover it because it wasn't certified.
Where do you get the idea that the insurance company won't pay up if your house burns down because of some wiring that you did? - so if I use a extension cord and connect it to a lamp and the cord is faulty and starts a fire the insurance won't pay - or if I let a pot of grease on the stove and it catches fire and burns down the house the insurance won't pay - that's why we have insurance - to cover things that happen because of mistakes that we make - not only naturally caused events - lets face it millions of guys do their own wiring - just go to a home depot or lowe's store - who is buying all of that electrical merchandise - home owners
Joe, things might be different here in Canada, and these are more recent changes and maybe not EVERY Insurance Company would not cover you, but do you want to take the chance on a $200,000. - $ 900,000. investment. 20 years ago probably wouldn't have been a problem. as an Electrician who has been in his share of houses, I have seen 2 that where done by people who thought they could do their own and a Miracle the house didn't burn to the ground. I was called because they lost hydro and in both incidents connections hadn't been done properly and with A Load on the wiring it caused the connection to burn off and thus loss of power.
another thing about aluminum wire, when I wired houses we did all the regular circuits in A, when we did the dryer, range and split plugs in the Kitchen we used Copper, reason being these had the more constant higher loads on them.
Yeah, I kind of see a bit of a difference between an accident where cooking oil spills off a stove top, and a homeowner putting his house at risk because he doesn't want to use a licensed professional to do the work. I can tell you straight up, when I went to insure my house, they asked for an electrical certificate, and to get that I needed an inspection. You can do the work yourself, as long as it passes an inspection and you get the certificate at the end. If you don't, and the insurance company finds out that the house burned down because the home owner wired things incorrectly, you think their going to say "It's okay, we know you screwed your wiring up to try and save $800 by not using a professional. Here's $800,000. Have fun."?
Take a chance, not my house. I wouldn't. In my head, it's crazy risking a claim of $100,000's (in Southern Ontario GTA, call it +$1 million) to save $800.
Because Joe, insurance companies aren't in the business of paying claims. They're in the business of not paying them.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
Was the extension cord approved? UL or ULC, or up here CSA? Why was the lamp plugged into an extension cord? Code up here prohibits using extension cords for use as permanent wiring.....
When you're staring at a smoking crater in the ground that used to be your home.....you really don't want to give an insurance company a reason to deny your claim.
Same story for mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
Every place a device was connected was an aluminum rated Marrette and no-lox paste pig tailed to a copper wire.
If I owned a home that had aluminum wiring I would remove a couple outlets and switches and see if they are marked CO/ALR - this mark is the only approved rating for aluminum wiring - if the devises have a AL/CU rating they are not considered approved anymore - they were at one time but now are considered hazardous - if the devises don't have the CO/ALR rating I would gradually replace them -