Liberal gun bill

I've looked at the bill (C-71), and here's a quick summary.

1. Background checks are deepened by making them apply beyond 5 years. Currently the Firearms Act has a five year limit, so a criminal conviction 6 years ago is ignored. This is now a lifetime check.

2. Changes made specifically to protect CZ858 and Swiss Arms are repealed. These revert to prohib but are grandfathered under new 12(10) and 12(14) classes. Provisions allowing OIC to make a prohib or restricted be non restricted are repealed. RCMP powers re classification are as before C-42.

3. Automatic ATT still applies for transfer from shop to home and to any shooting range in home province, for restricted and 12(6) where not registered as part of a collection. Anything ekse needs ATT issued. 12(10) and 12(14) do not get auto ATT but can get ATT for target shooting.

4. On selling a gun you need to call CFP to verify licence is valid, they keep a record of whose licence was verified. They give you a reference number which is valid for a specified time, which allows you to make that sale. Fail to comply, lose your licence.

5. Dealers must retain reference number, date, PAL number, firearm details for 20 years.

There are also some shenanigans to allow retained QC registry data to be given to QC.

Bill is up now:
http://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDet...9710291&View=0

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https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f6&oe=5B31DD4C

https://calibremag.ca/bill-c-71-a-wo...eeps-clothing/

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Originally Posted by Trudeau

And make no mistake; there will not be another long-gun registry, not now or ever, under this government.

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HOWEVER

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Authorization to transfer non-restricted firearms
23 (1) A person may transfer a non-restricted firearm if, at the time of the transfer,
(a) the transferee holds a licence authorizing the transferee to acquire and possess a non-restricted firearm;
(b) the Registrar has, at the transferor’s request, issued a reference number for the transfer and provided it to the transferor; and
(c) the reference number is still valid.

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Originally Posted by awndray

HOWEVER

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They have effectively instituted a firearms registry for all guns sold by individuals and gun shops.

Are they recording serial numbers and details of firearms during this authorization process?

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Originally Posted by terrym

Are they recording serial numbers and details of firearms during this authorization process?

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That isn’t spelled out in the legislation, but you can bet they will be. They will require that information to determine the class of firearm, and the buyers eligibility to possess the firearm. Backdoor registry !!!!

Reading Trudoughs claims that you don't have to produce a valid license, he either has no clue of the law or is a lier. He is both actually.

Introduction of the bill is one thing,actually having it pass is quite another. It still must be up for debate for first reading,on to the Senate for debate and vote,then, to the GG for Royal Assent. Given the ferocity of the opposition and the fact a federal election is only a year away where it will become a huge election issue,anything can happen between now and then.

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Originally Posted by terrym

Reading Trudoughs claims that you don't have to produce a valid license, he either has no clue of the law or is a lier. He is both actually.

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The law is ambiguous here as it stands. There used to be a lot of people saying that the only requirement was "no reason to believe buyer doesn't have a license" but hardly anyone says that anymore.

The key change is now you need to validate it with Miramichi.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

That isn’t spelled out in the legislation, but you can bet they will be. They will require that information to determine the class of firearm, and the buyers eligibility to possess the firearm. Backdoor registry !!!!

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This recording has been going on for years,nothing really new here.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Introduction of the bill is one thing,actually having it pass is quite another. It still must be up for debate for first reading,on to the Senate for debate and vote,then, to the GG for Royal Assent. Given the ferocity of the opposition and the fact a federal election is only a year away where it will become a huge election issue,anything can happen between now and then.

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With a Liberal majority government, it may not be much of a stretch to rubber stamp in no time flat.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

This recording has been going on for years,nothing really new here.

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What's new is that private sellers are now asked to call in the transfer, à la Registry days. Of course, peaceful non-compliance will certainly be a popular choice for private sellers.

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Originally Posted by awndray

What's new is that private sellers are now asked to call in the transfer, à la Registry days. Of course, peaceful non-compliance will certainly be a popular choice for private sellers.

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Noncompliance with transfer rules brings loss of your PAL.

It's specifically provided in the bill.

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Non-registered, non-restricted firearms legalky trade hands every day without the help of a reference number. Who's tracking what, and how? How will it be enforced?

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Originally Posted by awndray

Non-registered, non-restricted firearms legalky trade hands every day without the help of a reference number. Who's tracking what, and how? How will it be enforced?

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It looks like the ref # is just to ensure the buyers license is valid and you did your due diligence as part of the sale. ....

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Authorization to transfer non-restricted firearms
23 (1) A person may transfer a non-restricted firearm if, at the time of the transfer,
(a) the transferee holds a licence authorizing the transferee to acquire and possess a non-restricted firearm;
(b) the Registrar has, at the transferor’s request, issued a reference number for the transfer and provided it to the transferor; and
(c) the reference number is still valid.
Information — transferee’s licence
(2) The transferee shall provide to the transferor the prescribed information that relates to the transferee’s licence, for the purpose of enabling the transferor to request that the Registrar issue a reference number for the transfer.
Reference number
(3) The Registrar shall issue a reference number if he or she is satisfied that the transferee holds and is still eligible to hold a licence authorizing them to acquire and possess a non-restricted firearm.
Period of validity
(4) A reference number is valid for the prescribed period.

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Your right not likely to be adhered to for guns that are untraceable (private sales)...since they don't know who had it or how long you've had it...

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Originally Posted by welsh

Noncompliance with transfer rules brings loss of your PAL.

It's specifically provided in the bill.

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Looks like they found a way to shut down gun shows. Sellers aren't going to rack up cell phone charges while waiting in que to get a clerk on the line. Not that the liberals would intentionally understaff on weekends when gun shows happen.

The validation is intended to ensure that PAL is not fake or revoked.

How the validation will be implemented remains to be seen.

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Checking the validity of one's PAL is one thing. But a reference number? I'm waiting to find out what other information they will want when applying for a transfer.

This is just a small part of what bothers me with this bill. It's just an annoyance. The other aspects are far more troublesome. ATT changes and reclassifications, for starters.

An antigun administration that is beholden to antigun activists. This is a government that invited a convicted attempted assassin to a dinner. What could go wrong? During the registry years they sent 3 registration cards over a 6 month period for a firearm I sold and legally transferred. Yeah, this is going to go well. Everything these crooked aholez touch turns to kraaap.

They will be recording what firearms are being exchanged. Call it whatever you want but that is a registry. If we have to keep transaction records for 20 years so will they. It can take over an hour to check validity of a PAL during weekdays now. Getting it done at a Sunday morning gun show ain't gonna happen. They have basically killed gun shows.

I remember buying a few guns back in the registry days, calling in to the cfc and being put on hold for over an hour. Looks like it’s going to be the same way know only waiting for a reference #. The Liberals just can’t be happy unless there screwing law-abiding tax paying gun owners. While the criminal goes about there business unaffected.

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Originally Posted by fishhawk

I remember buying a few guns back in the registry days, calling in to the cfc and being put on hold for over an hour. Looks like it’s going to be the same way know only waiting for a reference #. The Liberals just can’t be happy unless there screwing law-abiding tax paying gun owners. While the criminal goes about there business unaffected.

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And they ill no doubt have to hire clerks, shift supervisors, managers, directors and they will all be overpaid and you get to fund thier pensions. They will be on overtime on Sundays I'm guessing the call in centres will be in Alberta in Conservative country?
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

This recording has been going on for years,nothing really new here.

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Not really. This isn’t just gun shops. Any gun sale will likely be recorded when you validate a buyers licence....

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Any gun sale will likely be recorded when you validate a buyers licence....

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But it sounds like all they will know you bought or sold "A" gun....in fact you could be buying multiple guns at the same time and the one registration number will be valid to cover all of them...

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Originally Posted by MikePal

But it sounds like all they will know you bought or sold "A" gun....in fact you could be buying multiple guns at the same time and the one registration number will be valid to cover all of them...

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They will have to know what the gun is, to verify the buyer can buy that class of firearm.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

They will have to know what the gun is, to verify the buyer can buy that class of firearm.

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We don't know that for sure. There is no provision in the bill requiring that anyone approve the sale. The check can simply be, is this PAL valid?

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There may be no provision, but we know the CFOs have the ability to make up regulations on the fly.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

They will have to know what the gun is, to verify the buyer can buy that class of firearm.

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This provision is for non-restricted...

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Originally Posted by fishhawk

I remember buying a few guns back in the registry days, calling in to the cfc and being put on hold for over an hour. Looks like it’s going to be the same way know only waiting for a reference #.

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This might be interesting ...

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Period of validity
(4) A reference number is valid for the prescribed period.

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Means once you have an assigned ref # for your PAL..and it's valid for a period of time, you could just give it to the all the sellers for the day you're at the show...not need to keep calling. Seller gets a number without sitting on the phone, he's happy and from the sound of it compliant.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

This might be interesting ...

Means once you have an assigned ref # for your PAL..and it's valid for a period of time, you could just give it to the all the sellers for the day you're at the show...not need to keep calling. Seller gets a number without sitting on the phone, he's happy and from the sound of it compliant.

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Each buyer’s licence will have to be validated.

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Originally Posted by terrym

And they ill no doubt have to hire clerks, shift supervisors, managers, directors and they will all be overpaid and you get to fund thier pensions. They will be on overtime on Sundays I'm guessing the call in centres will be in Alberta in Conservative country?
:rolleyes:

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They may need to staff up, but I'm not expecting high quality service. Limited hours and long waits on-hold will further the agenda by frustrating users and discouraging transfers.

Coming from the Minister of public safety I don't see anything in this bill that will change how public safety will be enhanced and nothing whatsoever that tackles criminal activity. Ya ya , Goodale said he is gonna pics a bunch of money into guns and gangs but that will be pointless unless they actually incarcerate the bastards once they catch them. That is a joke in itself.
The biggest concern of all this bullshyte will be with re classification. I will wait and see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

This recording has been going on for years,nothing really new here.

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Gilroy doesn't care cause he only has a flintlock rifle so don't ever expect him to stand up for our gun rights, unless they reclassify his flinter as prohibited.

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

Coming from the Minister of public safety I don't see anything in this bill that will change how public safety will be enhanced ....

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The background check changes certainly do.

Licence validation prevents the use of fake, altered, or revoked PALs.



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Not as bad as some of the lunatic anti's were screaming for .... Cuckoo is already saying they are soft on crime... that I might agree with her on because this does nothing there, as to be expected from a Lieb "hug a thug" ral bill it is to inconvenience and harass legal owners.
https://twitter.com/CTV_PowerPlay/st...06007515824129

This is the same government that tries to secretly hand out over $10,000,000 to a convicted terrorist, invites them to dinner and says they can keep their citizenship regardless of what kind of degenerate sh**ball they are!


http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/libe...-c71-1.4584074
The Liberals are also proposing a return to a system which entrusts the RCMP with classifying firearms under three categories: non-restricted, restricted and prohibited — a departure from the Harper-era rule which gave cabinet the power to override such a decision.

To that end, two types of firearms — the Ceska Zbrojovka CZ-858 rifle and certain Swiss Arms firearms — will be classified as "prohibited.


How long before more reclassifications, anyone else remember all the Orders in Council too?????

What if you planned on going to a gun show and expected to make a purchase, so you called the CFC a week earlier and got the reference # that confirmed your PAL was valid, or better yet an emailed and dated print-out ? That way you bring it and your PAL to the show and buy what you want, if it worked like that it may not be so bad

My hope would be you could do it online as a simple query. But for security reasons, I doubt we'll see this.

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I would hope the system fails miserably. Nothing less.

All the solutions to problems we didn’t have.

Once they get their hands on your guns, you ain't getting them back. Even if you are not guilty of anything
17 Subsection 115(1) of the Act is replaced by the following:
Forfeiture
115 (1) Unless a prohibition order against a person specifies otherwise, every thing the possession of which is prohibited by the order is forfeited to Her Majesty if, on the commencement of the order, the thing is in the person’s possession or has been seized and detained by, or surrendered to, a peace officer.

That applies only when you are under a prohibition order, e.g. if you are convicted of a violent crime and prohibited from owning guns.

It clarifies that if you are convicted of a crime, the Canadian taxpayer does not have to compensate you when your guns are taken away.

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Originally Posted by awndray

I would hope the system fails miserably. Nothing less.

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I foresee there will be little compliance ( ignored) in second hand/private sales market. There doesn't appear to be any requirement for you to keep records of the 'ref#' for a valid PAL, so as soon as you done your due diligence..next. Pretty hard for the RCMP to track your sales transactions when there are no records kept.

Not much different than it is now...guy asks to see your PAL (in case someone is watching) , you flash it at him from 6' away, he nods, takes your money and you move on...LOL..

I guess they don't care if you have a valid PAL when buying ammo...no mention of making vendors like CT call for a ref# before they sell it to you...why they bother with that charade is beyond me.

Worthless piece of legislation in purpose or application...of course it will fail as it has no benchmark to achieve.

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

What if you planned on going to a gun show and expected to make a purchase, so you called the CFC a week earlier and got the reference # that confirmed your PAL was valid, or better yet an emailed and dated print-out ? That way you bring it and your PAL to the show and buy what you want, if it worked like that it may not be so bad

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The seller has to call at the time of sale. I doubt the “prescribed time” will be very long. You will have to complete the sale fairly quickly.

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Originally Posted by B Wilson

Once they get their hands on your guns, you ain't getting them back. Even if you are not guilty of anything
17 Subsection 115(1) of the Act is replaced by the following:
Forfeiture
115 (1) Unless a prohibition order against a person specifies otherwise, every thing the possession of which is prohibited by the order is forfeited to Her Majesty if, on the commencement of the order, the thing is in the person’s possession or has been seized and detained by, or surrendered to, a peace officer.

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That has always been the case. If there was no disposition order, the guns were chopped. I think this just clarified things.

I think the rationale for the prescribed time is that a licence could be revoked in theory at any time, so the window would be short. But it could reasonably be 24 hrs.

Incidentally, was going through the press kit on this & the intent is not to keep any firearms details (make, model, serial no) on an NR transfer. The Liberals seem to be trying hard to avoid the backdoor registry angle.

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Originally Posted by welsh

I think the rationale for the prescribed time is that a licence could be revoked in theory at any time, so the window would be short. But it could reasonably be 24 hrs.

Incidentally, was going through the press kit on this & the intent is not to keep any firearms details (make, model, serial no) on an NR transfer. The Liberals seem to be trying hard to avoid the backdoor registry angle.

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I did not read anything on make or model either, you are simply calling to verify that the license is valid, you do not even need to tell them if there was a gun sold or if there was 50 guns sold, at least not how it reads now.

The link below is one reason why they are doing this, this guy was banned from having firearms but still had his card, which had not expired. He was able to buy non-restricted firearms and ammo with no license at all because he still had his old card. It is not a horrible idea, as long as they are not taking more info.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...dict-1.4407526

As for ammo sales, businesses have been required to take address, PAL #, amount and type of ammo in record in Ontario for a very long time, we essentially have had an ammunition registry in Ontario.

Mostly it is a pain in the a** that will get little regard, Cuckoo is going on a rant as usual and Justlied Trudeau is living up to his name again...

https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/st...98598252433413
Justin Trudeau
‏Verified account @JustinTrudeau
22h22 hours ago
The fact is, gun violence has risen in this country, and is a clear threat to public safety. We’re acting on our campaign commitment to crack down on gangs & illegal handguns, and put tighter controls on assault weapons.



Justin Trudeau
‏Verified account @JustinTrudeau
We’re also introducing stronger and more rigorous background checks on gun sales. And if you want to buy a gun, by law you’ll have to show a license at the point of purchase. Right now that’s not a requirement.
7:10 AM - 20 Mar 2018


But as soon as they start talking assault weapons I stop believing what they are saying anyway .... Assault rifle .... has ONE ever been used in a crime in Canada, I have never heard of it..... and wouldn't a baseball bat also be an assault weapon if used that way???? Knife ban??

The call to make sure the card is still valid, no different from what is done now when I recently sold a firearm so as long as they don't go idiotic I see no issue. The lifetime check,that may be a problem for some, what are their cutoff offenses, if you had antidepressants 20 years ago or a woman after birth a decade ago wants to take up shooting .... not allowed based on, someones discretion????

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Originally Posted by Fox

As for ammo sales, businesses have been required to take address, PAL #, amount and type of ammo in record in Ontario for a very long time, we essentially have had an ammunition registry in Ontario.

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A registry of a consumable product...makes sense.

Unless I'm mistaken that data has never gone any farther than the page on the book on the shelf at CT...the books aren't submitted to the RCMP but held in storage. So if that is called a registry.....I'm amused :)

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Originally Posted by mosquito

But as soon as they start talking assault weapons I stop believing what they are saying anyway .... Assault rifle .... has ONE ever been used in a crime in Canada, I have never heard of it.....

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Denis Lortie...armed with two C-1 submachine guns...comes to mind.

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Originally Posted by mosquito

Assault rifle .... has ONE ever been used in a crime in Canada, I have never heard of it.....

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Hmmm, well....

Assault rifle: a centre-fire, select-fire or semi-automatic rifle firing an intermediate cartridge, fed by a detachable box magazine with a standard capacity typically of 30 rounds; may also refer to similar rifles firing full bore rifle cartridges and with correspondingly smaller magazines (FN FAL, M14), although some authorities insist on treating these as "battle rifles."

Now, someone will insist that assault rifles by definition are select-fire and not semi-auto. I used to believe that, but I've collected a pile of primary source examples, such as Guns & Ammo magazine, predating the US assault weapons ban (i.e., 1980s, early 1990s) that refer to semi-auto variants as "assault rifles." Indeed, "assault weapon" has the same origin: not from the mouths of politicians, but from the printing presses of gun magazines. Nobody in the gun world objected to this terminology until it became a political problem.

Note that this definition is also popular usage today.

So, based on that definition, we won't have to look too far to find a crime done with an "assault rifle."

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Originally Posted by mosquito

The lifetime check,that may be a problem for some, what are their cutoff offenses, if you had antidepressants 20 years ago or a woman after birth a decade ago wants to take up shooting .... not allowed based on, someones discretion????

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Yup, based entirely on police discretion. But what they're looking for is violence.

The legislation is no big surprise. The Liberals announced it before the last election. It's also not that big of a deal. CZ and Swiss Arms owners get to keep their firearms, ATTs return to what they were before C42, dealers will once again record sales like they did pre-2005 and CFO's will look back more than 5 years when issuing a license which they did already.

The biggest change is if we sell a gun privately the option of verifying the buyer's PAL is now mandatory. I have verified PALs a couple of times since the end of the registry and there was no requirement to provide the serial number or description of the firearm. There is nothing to suggest in this legislation that they will be required. So once the dust settles the degree of inconvenience in this bill is relatively minor.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

... ATTs return to what they were before C42....

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The change is even less significant than that. For restricted and 12(6), the automatic ATT created by C-42 still exists for transport from shop to home and to any range in your home province.

The old system is reinstated for transport to gun shop, gunsmith, gun show, border point, etc. The rationale here seems fairly clear: they want to impose control where there is an actual or potential change in possession.

Anyway, the effect on everyday activities from the ATT changes looks to be pretty small.



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by welsh

The change is even less significant than that. For restricted and 12(6), the automatic ATT created by C-42 still exists for transport from shop to home and to any range in your home province.

The old system is reinstated for transport to gun shop, gunsmith, gun show, border point, etc. The rationale here seems fairly clear: they want to impose control where there is an actual or potential change in possession.

Anyway, the effect on everyday activities from the ATT changes looks to be pretty small.

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Thanks. It helps prove the point this legislation is much ado about nothing except perhaps for the Swiss Arms and CZ owners who used them to hunt or don't belong to a range.

The previous double negative requirement (no reason not to believe) for a non-restricted transfer was too loose. Verifying the validity of a PAL before transferring is prudent and responsible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by welsh

Hmmm, well....

Assault rifle: a centre-fire, select-fire or semi-automatic rifle firing an intermediate cartridge, fed by a detachable box magazine with a standard capacity typically of 30 rounds; may also refer to similar rifles firing full bore rifle cartridges and with correspondingly smaller magazines (FN FAL, M14), although some authorities insist on treating these as "battle rifles."

Now, someone will insist that assault rifles by definition are select-fire and not semi-auto. I used to believe that, but I've collected a pile of primary source examples, such as Guns & Ammo magazine, predating the US assault weapons ban (i.e., 1980s, early 1990s) that refer to semi-auto variants as "assault rifles." Indeed, "assault weapon" has the same origin: not from the mouths of politicians, but from the printing presses of gun magazines. Nobody in the gun world objected to this terminology until it became a political problem.

Note that this definition is also popular usage today.

So, based on that definition, we won't have to look too far to find a crime done with an "assault rifle."



Yup, based entirely on police discretion. But what they're looking for is violence.

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So is calling a walleye a pickerel but then again the definitions of words are sometimes dynamic so I stand corrected.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...ssault%20rifle
Updated on: 17 Mar 2018
: any of various intermediate-range, magazine-fed military rifles (such as the AK-47) that can be set for automatic or semiautomatic fire; also : a rifle that resembles a military assault rifle but is designed to allow only semiautomatic fire

While others use the "walleye" definition..
An assault rifle is a selective-fire rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine.
and
That said, the gun industry's traditional definition of an "assault rifle" is a weapon the military generally uses and has "select fire capabilities," or the capability to switch between semi-automatic or a fully automatic mode.

So ... an Assault Weapon...

"The Ohio bill defines an assault weapon as "an automatic firearm that has not been rendered permanently inoperable, a semi-automatic firearm capable of accepting a detachable magazine with the capacity to accept ten or more cartridges, and a semi-automatic firearm with a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept ten or more cartridges."

Or the dictionary again....
assault weapon
Updated on: 18 Mar 2018
: any of various automatic or semiautomatic firearms; especially : assault rifle


So according to the Ohio definition, there are none in Canada (other than some .22s since cal is not mentioned). Given the vague dictionary definition then you could say all semi's (even though that is not the way it is not intended BY MOST).

I didn't see anything specific about violence (I read it fast though) and did see some psychological there... and don't have time to look, sometimes you just need a break but tea is done back to database connection issues ....

An unaccountable group making decisions based on ambiguous wording based almost solely on appearance not function and a liberal agenda (insert long list of complete unethical etc sh**) driving it .... what can go wrong?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

The legislation is no big surprise. The Liberals announced it before the last election. It's also not that big of a deal. CZ and Swiss Arms owners get to keep their firearms, ATTs return to what they were before C42, dealers will once again record sales like they did pre-2005 and CFO's will look back more than 5 years when issuing a license which they did already.

The biggest change is if we sell a gun privately the option of verifying the buyer's PAL is now mandatory. I have verified PALs a couple of times since the end of the registry and there was no requirement to provide the serial number or description of the firearm. There is nothing to suggest in this legislation that they will be required. So once the dust settles the degree of inconvenience in this bill is relatively minor.

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The voice of reason has spoken,well done.

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

Gilroy doesn't care cause he only has a flintlock rifle so don't ever expect him to stand up for our gun rights, unless they reclassify his flinter as prohibited.

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Keep trolling brother hunter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by welsh

The change is even less significant than that. For restricted and 12(6), the automatic ATT created by C-42 still exists for transport from shop to home and to any range in your home province.

The old system is reinstated for transport to gun shop, gunsmith, gun show, border point, etc. The rationale here seems fairly clear: they want to impose control where there is an actual or potential change in possession.

Anyway, the effect on everyday activities from the ATT changes looks to be pretty small.



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Thanks. It helps prove the point this legislation is much ado about nothing except perhaps for the Swiss Arms and CZ owners who used them to hunt or don't belong to a range.

The previous double negative requirement (no reason not to believe) for a non-restricted transfer was too loose. Verifying the validity of a PAL before transferring is prudent and responsible.

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All of this remains to be seen. This legislation,by design, leaves the door wide open for regulation "creep" relatively without any checks and balances against bureaucratic abuse. There is ZERO measures in this entire legislation proposal for public safety as claimed by The Liberal Party of Canada. As usual,all of this is directed toward legal,lawful citizens who were never the problem in the first place. All the Liberal apologists posting here are being deliberately obtuse, bald-faced liars or at best,tragically naive.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

A registry of a consumable product...makes sense.

Unless I'm mistaken that data has never gone any farther than the page on the book on the shelf at CT...the books aren't submitted to the RCMP but held in storage. So if that is called a registry.....I'm amused :)

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There are a few people here who were contacted based on their purchase of certain ammo, I believe Werner bought 32 pistol ammo and the RCMP contacted him, they were used for a chamber adapter.

I asked a few shops and they said that the books have been reviewed before.

You can consult all the dictionaries you want. The primary sources are there.

And fighting about whether people are allowed to use the words "assault rifle" in this way establishes nothing.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

All the Liberal apologists posting here are being deliberately obtuse, bald-faced liars....

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You should have little difficulty, then, in pointing out a post in which I've presented an untruth as fact.

Have at 'er.



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fox

I asked a few shops and they said that the books have been reviewed before.

---

We had a guy on here once that said he worked in a shop that had one of these books....when it was full he asked what to do with it, called and they said keep it for a yr then you can throw it out. No data was ever gleaned from it.

Standing in front of the clerk once my buddy turns to me and says he left his PAL in the truck, so he gave me his ammo , I bought it and gave to back to him....the clerk didn't bad an eye....pointless gathering of info on that sale..LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Badenoch

The legislation is no big surprise. The Liberals announced it before the last election. It's also not that big of a deal. CZ and Swiss Arms owners get to keep their firearms, ATTs return to what they were before C42, dealers will once again record sales like they did pre-2005 and CFO's will look back more than 5 years when issuing a license which they did already.

The biggest change is if we sell a gun privately the option of verifying the buyer's PAL is now mandatory. I have verified PALs a couple of times since the end of the registry and there was no requirement to provide the serial number or description of the firearm. There is nothing to suggest in this legislation that they will be required. So once the dust settles the degree of inconvenience in this bill is relatively minor.

---

This isn't just about inconvenience. Read the fine print. This is disarmament in the making. I don't expect everyone to believe that, but the writing is on the wall.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3902026/g...ban-ignorance/
https://calibremag.ca/bill-c-71-a-wo...eeps-clothing/

None of what's proposed will affect criminals. They don't care about the law. This bill will do nothing to address the "clear threat to public safety" or "to crack down on gangs & illegal handguns, and put tighter controls on assault weapons." And again, there's that term again -- assault weapon, an emotionally fabricated buzzword.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

We had a guy on here once that said he worked in a shop that had one of these books....when it was full he asked what to do with it, called and they said keep it for a yr then you can throw it out. No data was ever gleaned from it.

Standing in front of the clerk once my buddy turns to me and says he left his PAL in the truck, so he gave me his ammo , I bought it and gave to back to him....the clerk didn't bad an eye....pointless gathering of info on that sale..LOL

---

They recorded your info, totally legal, you transferred it to a third party with a license, perfectly legal.

This is why these things will not work. Unless you have to call in and give make, model, serial number, etc, there cannot be a registry for the guns or the ammo. If all they are going is having you call in and they say, yep, that license is legit here is your reference code, then nothing can be tracked and no registry can exist.

Everyone should really have an inventory of their guns for their own use though too, mainly for insurance purposes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by awndray

This isn't just about inconvenience. Read the fine print. This is disarmament in the making. I don't expect everyone to believe that, but the writing is on the wall.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3902026/g...ban-ignorance/
https://calibremag.ca/bill-c-71-a-wo...eeps-clothing/

None of what's proposed will affect criminals. They don't care about the law. This bill will do nothing to address the "clear threat to public safety" or "to crack down on gangs & illegal handguns, and put tighter controls on assault weapons." And again, there's that term again -- assault weapon, an emotionally fabricated buzzword.

---

Were we not to lose all of our guns back in 1995?

I see the Anti's have a grasp of it;

Quote:

---

Heidi Rathjen, a gun control activist and survivor of the 1989 Polytechnique massacre, said she felt "utter disappointment" after reviewing the proposed law, which she said offered "lots of concessions to the gun lobby."

"Our impression when we look at the details is that it was specifically designed to look like they're doing something, but to minimize the ire of the gun lobby as much as possible," Rathjen, a spokesperson for the gun control group Poly Remembers, told CBC Montreal's Homerun.

---

Quote:

---

While the proposed legislation reinstates an obligation for gun stores to keep records of all licensed gun sales, Rathjen said police access to those records has been restricted.

She said Ottawa also failed to make private gun sales subject to similar record-keeping procedures.

"Once you leave the store, you could sell them to anybody now and not leave a trace, which makes it really easy to feed into the black market," she said.

---

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...tawa-1.4585087

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by awndray

And again, there's that term again -- assault weapon, an emotionally fabricated buzzword.

---

Emotionally fabricated by the editors of Guns & Ammo?

Seriously. Do some research.

By the way, that Calibre mag thing, where they suggest a magic loophole lets the RCMP do any reclassification they want? That's BS. No basis in fact.



Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Welsh, they won't refute your post, because they can't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

Were we not to lose all of our guns back in 1995?

---

I have more guns now, than I did 23 years ago. Some people are still wearing those tin foil hats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by welsh

I think the rationale for the prescribed time is that a licence could be revoked in theory at any time, so the window would be short. But it could reasonably be 24 hrs.

Incidentally, was going through the press kit on this & the intent is not to keep any firearms details (make, model, serial no) on an NR transfer. The Liberals seem to be trying hard to avoid the backdoor registry angle.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

---

Your firearms licence can be suspended pending further investigation, as a result of some occurrences involving the police. You wouldn’t have immediate knowledge of the suspension. With respect to firearm information being requested at time of sale, CFO’s have been known to arbitrarily change rules, depending on their interpretation. Whether this happens in Ontario, remains to be seen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

With respect to firearm information being requested at time of sale, CFO’s have been known to arbitrarily change rules, depending on their interpretation. Whether this happens in Ontario, remains to be seen.

---

True, but as this winds through the legislative process, we'll see lots of pressure on this point. We may well see regulations added closing these holes.



Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

I have more guns now, than I did 23 years ago. Some people are still wearing those tin foil hats.

---

I was not legal to own firearms yet but then again I was able to get them, crazy how the ban worked out for them back in 1995.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by welsh

By the way, that Calibre mag thing, where they suggest a magic loophole lets the RCMP do any reclassification they want? That's BS. No basis in fact.

---

Seriously. Do some research.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by awndray

Seriously. Do some research.

---

OK. I'll get right on that. Maybe I'll check it with, you know, a lawyer.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

Sounds good to me.

https://www.facebook.com/Ian.Runkle....15072085385895

Let us know what you find.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awndray

Sounds good to me.

https://www.facebook.com/Ian.Runkle....15072085385895

Let us know what you find.

---

See question by Qintin Hergt.

Did you think I didn't check this already?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by welsh

You should have little difficulty, then, in pointing out a post in which I've presented an untruth as fact.

Have at 'er.



Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

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I used several criteria,specifically,to promote inclusivity,so,pick one.

Our fearless leader....

https://i.imgur.com/MVWqRwOm.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Our fearless leader....

https://i.imgur.com/MVWqRwOm.jpg

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I did not know that !!! Moron !! He must not have heard Butts correctly !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rick_iles

Your firearms licence can be suspended pending further investigation, as a result of some occurrences involving the police. You wouldn’t have immediate knowledge of the suspension. With respect to firearm information being requested at time of sale, CFO’s have been known to arbitrarily change rules, depending on their interpretation. Whether this happens in Ontario, remains to be seen.

---

You and I both know that gun owners don,t just willy,nilly get their firearms licenses suspended there is generally a good reason,why spread all the paranoia .Shame on you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

I have more guns now, than I did 23 years ago. Some people are still wearing those tin foil hats.

---

Me too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

You and I both know that gun owners don,t just willy,nilly get their firearms licenses suspended there is generally a good reason,why spread all the paranoia .Shame on you.

---

You obviously didn’t work on any FIP hits involving occurrences with violence or threats of violence....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

All of this remains to be seen. This legislation,by design, leaves the door wide open for regulation "creep" relatively without any checks and balances against bureaucratic abuse. There is ZERO measures in this entire legislation proposal for public safety as claimed by The Liberal Party of Canada. As usual,all of this is directed toward legal,lawful citizens who were never the problem in the first place. All the Liberal apologists posting here are being deliberately obtuse, bald-faced liars or at best,tragically naive.

---

Except that some "legal, lawful citizens" are a problem. Marc Lepine, Valery Fabrikant, Justine Bourque, Kimveer Gill, Edward Paredes, Alexandre Bissonnette were all legal gun owners until they started killing people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Except that some "legal, lawful citizens" are a problem. Marc Lepine, Valery Fabrikant, Justine Bourque, Kimveer Gill, Edward Paredes, Alexandre Bissonnette were all legal gun owners until they started killing people.

---

Please show us where this legislation will prevent mass shootings by the mentally ill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

Please show us where this legislation will prevent mass shootings by the mentally ill.

---

Of the people listed, only Fabrikant was mentally ill.

And the point was not that this legislation will prevent mass shootings. The point was that crimes are committed by people who, up until their crimes occur, are otherwise law-abiding.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rick_iles

You obviously didn’t work on any FIP hits involving occurrences with violence or threats of violence....

---

An FIP hit does not equate to a suspension in all cases,you should know that.A SIP does not equate to a suspension in all cases.That is why we had local firearms officers to sort through the weeds.But atlas people like Julian Fantino summarily dismissed such officers in the service of his conservative masters and this has actually made life harder for gun owners.In other words you are more likely to get suspended now than years ago when we had the checks in balance.Be careful what you ask for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by welsh

Of the people listed, only Fabrikant was mentally ill.

And the point was not that this legislation will prevent mass shootings. The point was that crimes are committed by people who, up until their crimes occur, are otherwise law-abiding.

---

Exactly. The point is how easy it is to refute a dumb statement like "legal, lawful gun owners were never the problem in the first place."

Sadly, sometimes "legal, lawful gun owners" are the problem and it is foolish to claim otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Exactly. The point is how easy it is to refute a dumb statement like "legal, lawful gun owners were never the problem in the first place."

Sadly, sometimes "legal, lawful gun owners" are the problem and there is no point attempting to claim otherwise.

---

Yup, lawful gun owners are great until they go off side.Thankfully the 2223 firearms license revocations in 2016 will help curb some of the damage that could be done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

Please show us where this legislation will prevent mass shootings by the mentally ill.

---

Therein lies the difference between Conservatives and Liberals, Conservatives cannot get their minds around prevention and how to give police and government credit for preventing crimes, Liberals think a little deeper and actually know prevention works and try to give the police the tools to prevent crimes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

An FIP hit does not equate to a suspension in all cases,you should know that.A SIP does not equate to a suspension in all cases.That is why we had local firearms officers to sort through the weeds.But atlas people like Julian Fantino summarily dismissed such officers in the service of his conservative masters and this has actually made life harder for gun owners.In other words you are more likely to get suspended now than years ago when we had the checks in balance.Be careful what you ask for.

---

Read my post again. I didn’t say suspensions occurred in all cases of FIP hits...some occurrence classifications automatically trigger a FIP hit, but then you should know that !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rick_iles

I did not know that !!! Moron !! He must not have heard Butts correctly !

---

It is actually interesting to follow the ideologue on twitter. Justlied or who ever writes his twits (not smart enough for tweets) for him quite often says some really dumb stuff and his posts (ex Castro etc.) show just how pathetic morally he is.

I posted a link to him and some of his twits earlier here.
https://www.oodmag.com/community/sho...=1#post1055723

The Liebral's just can't get it through their heads the realities and are truly detached from reality more and more it seems. They somehow think that adding laws and regulations will have much of an effect and run around celebrating a new law when the reality is the culture has changed. They blame and charge the person that defends themselves but let the criminal off, example the recent rural shooting out west.

Our illegal drug using PM just seems to love the scum (tyrants, dictators, criminals, terrorists ...) and that hug a thug and punish the innocent will continue with this. The conservatives think the guilty should be punished but never the liberal's, in many ways they are just accomplices it seems. Failure to check over the phone and they take away the license, firearms and probably find a few charges along the way.... but an ISIS terrorist that murdered, raped etc. gets a welcome home and to keep his citizenship .... :whacked: That delusion will continue with this, they TALK about guns and gangs .... but do nothing except harass the honest. In Paris off duty police are allowed to carry since the 2015 attacks but not Canada.... the honest and the good guys are not allowed pepper spray, no taser pretty much no self defense..... cry, curl up in a ball and piss yourself are all they approve of and they will take and take all they can until we are dependent on them and the police like good little sheeple. When some of the criminals crossing from the US, ISIS etc. behave badly, as will happen, then they also have more excuses to take more control in the name of safety.

So it isn't as bad as I expected, BUT still a pathetic attack display of a poor leader, poor legislation (unless the goal is ambiguity, harassment and seizure ...) and making claims that are empirically false.... like his budget, deficit, vacation, ethics...

#NoLibs2019

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Therein lies the difference between Conservatives and Liberals, Conservatives cannot get their minds around prevention and how to give police and government credit for preventing crimes, Liberals think a little deeper and actually know prevention works and try to give the police the tools to prevent crimes.

---

Here ya go,Gilroy. Mosquito explains it a lot better than I can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mosquito

It is actually interesting to follow the ideologue on twitter. Justlied or who ever writes his twits (not smart enough for tweets) for him quite often says some really dumb stuff and his posts (ex Castro etc.) show just how pathetic morally he is.

I posted a link to him and some of his twits earlier here.
https://www.oodmag.com/community/sho...=1#post1055723

The Liebral's just can't get it through their heads the realities and are truly detached from reality more and more it seems. They somehow think that adding laws and regulations will have much of an effect and run around celebrating a new law when the reality is the culture has changed. They blame and charge the person that defends themselves but let the criminal off, example the recent rural shooting out west.

Our illegal drug using PM just seems to love the scum (tyrants, dictators, criminals, terrorists ...) and that hug a thug and punish the innocent will continue with this. The conservatives think the guilty should be punished but never the liberal's, in many ways they are just accomplices it seems. Failure to check over the phone and they take away the license, firearms and probably find a few charges along the way.... but an ISIS terrorist that murdered, raped etc. gets a welcome home and to keep his citizenship .... :whacked: That delusion will continue with this, they TALK about guns and gangs .... but do nothing except harass the honest. In Paris off duty police are allowed to carry since the 2015 attacks but not Canada.... the honest and the good guys are not allowed pepper spray, no taser pretty much no self defense..... cry, curl up in a ball and piss yourself are all they approve of and they will take and take all they can until we are dependent on them and the police like good little sheeple. When some of the criminals crossing from the US, ISIS etc. behave badly, as will happen, then they also have more excuses to take more control in the name of safety.

So it isn't as bad as I expected, BUT still a pathetic attack display of a poor leader, poor legislation (unless the goal is ambiguity, harassment and seizure ...) and making claims that are empirically false.... like his budget, deficit, vacation, ethics...

#NoLibs2019

---

It seems even CBC is noticing things about this firearm bill, trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.


Liberals' claim of 'steady increase' in gun crime rests on a 'drastic' comparison to a low-crime year
Expert says Trudeau government's choice of baseline year makes crime stats look worse than they really are
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics...nada-1.4585097
But if, rather than picking the lowest year for comparison, one were to ask how 2016 compared with a decade before, one would find that the rate of firearms homicides remained boringly unchanged. It was 0.69 per 100,000 in 2005, and 0.59 in 2006, and 0.57 in 2007. It dipped during 2013 and was back at 0.62 per 100,000 in the supposedly alarming year of 2016.

The rate of homicides with handguns in Canada in 2016 was 0.36 per 100,000. Ten years ago, it was 0.38 per 100,000.

None of that constitutes a "steady increase."

One might also look back at the long-term trend, and note with satisfaction that the rate at which Canadians are being killed with firearms has seen a historic decline of more than 50 per cent from its high point of 1.26 per 100,000 in 1975.

Selective statistics has always been the stock-in-trade of the Liberal gun control crowd,so,that isn't surprising. When they can't "spin" it,they lie about it,outright. I read about the mental health aspect of "enhanced" back ground checks which could be a concern for people with MD's that steadfastly refuse to "sign off" on a PAL app. No MD's I've ever met would ever assume that liability. Many hunters and target shooters will be loosing their firearms if no appeal mechanism exists. On the surface,this legislation looks relatively innocuous,but,like peeling the skin from an onion,the devil is in the details. We may be in a whole world of trouble with the law of unintended consequences.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

Selective statistics has always been the stock-in-trade of the Liberal gun control crowd,so,that isn't surprising. When they can't "spin" it,they lie about it,outright. I read about the mental health aspect of "enhanced" back ground checks which could be a concern for people with MD's that steadfastly refuse to "sign off" on a PAL app. No MD's I've ever met would ever assume that liability. Many hunters and target shooters will be loosing their firearms if no appeal mechanism exists. On the surface,this legislation looks relatively innocuous,but,like peeling the skin from an onion,the devil is in the details. We may be in a whole world of trouble with the law of unintended consequences.

---

Cripes back in the 90s when I was renewing my FAC, my MD said if they hadn't let in so many Jamaicans, we wouldn't need this, as he filled in his reference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by revrnd

Cripes back in the 90s when I was renewing my FAC, my MD said if they hadn't let in so many Jamaicans, we wouldn't need this, as he filled in his reference.

---

ROFL! If he ever said that today,the Liberals would run him out of town on a rail.

Where is my credit card .... got it, signing up.

https://www.facebook.com/CanadianCoa...2167108830416/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rick_iles

Read my post again. I didn’t say suspensions occurred in all cases of FIP hits...some occurrence classifications automatically trigger a FIP hit, but then you should know that !

---

It would be easier if you just stopped the fear mongering which was the intent of your original post,nobody is buying it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

ROFL! If he ever said that today,the Liberals would run him out of town on a rail.

---

Oh, what would the Conservatives do with him today?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Oh, what would the Conservatives do with him today?

---

This conservative would pat him on the back!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bushmoose

This conservative would pat him on the back!

---

Exactly and that is why they are in the opposition seats now.LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mosquito

It is actually interesting to follow the ideologue on twitter. Justlied or who ever writes his twits (not smart enough for tweets) for him quite often says some really dumb stuff and his posts (ex Castro etc.) show just how pathetic morally he is.

I posted a link to him and some of his twits earlier here.
https://www.oodmag.com/community/sho...=1#post1055723

The Liebral's just can't get it through their heads the realities and are truly detached from reality more and more it seems. They somehow think that adding laws and regulations will have much of an effect and run around celebrating a new law when the reality is the culture has changed. They blame and charge the person that defends themselves but let the criminal off, example the recent rural shooting out west.

Our illegal drug using PM just seems to love the scum (tyrants, dictators, criminals, terrorists ...) and that hug a thug and punish the innocent will continue with this. The conservatives think the guilty should be punished but never the liberal's, in many ways they are just accomplices it seems. Failure to check over the phone and they take away the license, firearms and probably find a few charges along the way.... but an ISIS terrorist that murdered, raped etc. gets a welcome home and to keep his citizenship .... :whacked: That delusion will continue with this, they TALK about guns and gangs .... but do nothing except harass the honest. In Paris off duty police are allowed to carry since the 2015 attacks but not Canada.... the honest and the good guys are not allowed pepper spray, no taser pretty much no self defense..... cry, curl up in a ball and piss yourself are all they approve of and they will take and take all they can until we are dependent on them and the police like good little sheeple. When some of the criminals crossing from the US, ISIS etc. behave badly, as will happen, then they also have more excuses to take more control in the name of safety.

So it isn't as bad as I expected, BUT still a pathetic attack display of a poor leader, poor legislation (unless the goal is ambiguity, harassment and seizure ...) and making claims that are empirically false.... like his budget, deficit, vacation, ethics...

#NoLibs2019

---

You need to do some more research and reading.It was Steven Harper who was busy while in power supplying Dictators,tyrants and terrorists.You know the type of guys who took part in the 9/11 from Saudi Arabia.The poor people were hardly dead in their graves and Steven and company were supplying them with Armored vehicles.Is this how the Conservatives punish the guilty by supplying them with arms.Now they have embroiled the poor Liberals in that shady deal, reminds me of Brian Muldome
and stuffed envelopes with cash on another military procurement.Shame on you.


Stephen Harper's Conservative government made Saudi Arabia's "emerging market" a priority as part of a foreign policy that focused on international trade and business. Ottawa made careful diplomatic overtures to Riyadh in the years before the 2014 arms deal, according to Saudi government documents made public last year by Wikileaks. The Saudis, in turn, made their own investments in Canada, such as donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to expand private Islamic schools in this country.


Ref:https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle28180299/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Oh, what would the Conservatives do with him today?

---

Is it the TRUTH ? Truth matters, regardless of political inconvenience

It is a current sitting Prime Minister who has stated that he wished we were a communist country and his father wished it as well. Also it is this current Prime Minister who has met with several Terrorists and even is friends with some.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

You need to do some more research and reading.It was Steven Harper who was busy while in power supplying Dictators,tyrants and terrorists.You know the type of guys who took part in the 9/11 from Saudi Arabia.The poor people were hardly dead in their graves and Steven and company were supplying them with Armored vehicles.Is this how the Conservatives punish the guilty by supplying them with arms.Now they have embroiled the poor Liberals in that shady deal, reminds me of Brian Muldome
and stuffed envelopes with cash on another military procurement.Shame on you.


Stephen Harper's Conservative government made Saudi Arabia's "emerging market" a priority as part of a foreign policy that focused on international trade and business. Ottawa made careful diplomatic overtures to Riyadh in the years before the 2014 arms deal, according to Saudi government documents made public last year by Wikileaks. The Saudis, in turn, made their own investments in Canada, such as donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to expand private Islamic schools in this country.


Ref:https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle28180299/

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

You need to do some more research and reading.It was Steven Harper who was busy while in power supplying Dictators,tyrants and terrorists.You know the type of guys who took part in the 9/11 from Saudi Arabia.The poor people were hardly dead in their graves and Steven and company were supplying them with Armored vehicles.Is this how the Conservatives punish the guilty by supplying them with arms.Now they have embroiled the poor Liberals in that shady deal, reminds me of Brian Muldome
and stuffed envelopes with cash on another military procurement.Shame on you.


Stephen Harper's Conservative government made Saudi Arabia's "emerging market" a priority as part of a foreign policy that focused on international trade and business. Ottawa made careful diplomatic overtures to Riyadh in the years before the 2014 arms deal, according to Saudi government documents made public last year by Wikileaks. The Saudis, in turn, made their own investments in Canada, such as donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to expand private Islamic schools in this country.


Ref:https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle28180299/

---

They are human and that is one of the things I don't agree with that they did.

However the Liberals have worked hard to continue to help the Saudi'a bombing of civilians etc including it seems adding criteria until they killed energy east...
http://business.financialpost.com/co...ek-new-markets
Similarly, Saudi Arabia has increased oil shipments to Canada from 73,000 bpd in 2014, to 84,000 bpd in 2015 and close to 87,000 bpd in 2016.

OPEC supplied just under 33 per cent of oil to Canada last year, from around 26 per cent in 2015, NEB data shows.


They sold off military and technology to companies in China, even over the rebukes of the US and CSIS.

U.S. rebukes Canada over Chinese takeover of Norsat
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle35294914/


I know history all right.... it was also the conservatives that made changes on citizens arrest (Lucky Moose for example) and created an organization to try and protect minorities around the world... which the Lieberals shut down and have no gone as far as to discriminate against those that think the murder of the unborn is wrong.... no more and more it is clear that the Liberal's fit .... just look at the PM ... illegal drug user, admires dictatorship that ran tanks over students, praise for a tyrant, hand out to terrorists, funding for UNRWA, etc.

“A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices” - George Orwell

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 73hunter

Is it the TRUTH ? Truth matters, regardless of political inconvenience

---

Do you have immigration data? And data on gang violence? And a pile of other variables to feed into your regression model? And a means of validating that model?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

It would be easier if you just stopped the fear mongering which was the intent of your original post,nobody is buying it.

---

No fear mongering there, I posted facts. Unfortunately you have no clue. All that Liebral Koolade has affected your comprehension!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by welsh

The validation is intended to ensure that PAL is not fake or revoked.

How the validation will be implemented remains to be seen.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

---

Hi Welsh, so what you are saying, if a PAL is revoked, it is not confiscated at the time of revocation? that would be pretty lacks them. Again, are there any consequences for presenting a fake PAL? (i.e. a forgery charge)

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting>
-Gun Nut

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by welsh

Do you have immigration data? And data on gang violence? And a pile of other variables to feed into your regression model? And a means of validating that model?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

---

Welsh: you will note that I ASKED if it was the truth, I didn’t state it.

And I asked it because these days, it seems that people are afraid to speak the truth (or seek it) if it might offend a group.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gun Nut

Hi Welsh, so what you are saying, if a PAL is revoked, it is not confiscated at the time of revocation? that would be pretty lacks them. Again, are there any consequences for presenting a fake PAL? (i.e. a forgery charge)

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting>
-Gun Nut

---

It should be, but might not be. Because, for example, they can't find the person. Or he "lost" the card. And so on.

Using a fake PAL would probably be passing a forged document. But people use fake ID all the time.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rick_iles

No fear mongering there, I posted facts. Unfortunately you have no clue. All that Liebral Koolade has affected your comprehension!

---

When you start up again with the personal insults it speaks volumes of your character.

[QUOTE=Gilroy;1055991]When you start up again with the personal insults it speaks volumes of your character.[/QUOTE

You betcha !!!!

[QUOTE=rick_iles;1055994]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

When you start up again with the personal insults it speaks volumes of your character.[/QUOTE

You betcha !!!!

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There are a few that have your back on that one! :)

[QUOTE=rick_iles;1055994]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

When you start up again with the personal insults it speaks volumes of your character.[/QUOTE

You betcha !!!!

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Sunny ways my fellow hunter,sunny ways.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjk1P4wEK9c

[QUOTE=Gilroy;1056000]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Sunny ways my fellow hunter,sunny ways.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjk1P4wEK9c

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Yep, this is your idol Gilroy? https://youtu.be/wwewaI8sdac

[QUOTE=Bushmoose;1056001]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Yep, this is your idol Gilroy? https://youtu.be/wwewaI8sdac

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Yes and because you are such a fan of both me and Justin, I have to post this also for your entertainment. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBThlIGUHAI

[QUOTE=Bushmoose;1056001]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Yep, this is your idol Gilroy? https://youtu.be/wwewaI8sdac

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Quote is screwed up... I sure as heck didn’t post that “sunny ways” crap !!

[QUOTE=Gilroy;1056014]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bushmoose

Yes and because you are such a fan of both me and Justin, I have to post this also for your entertainment. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBThlIGUHAI

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That's ok Gilly, he's your little potatoe, not mine. I prefer my countries leader to be competent at running the country, not dancing or boxing... or running massive deficits, or taking expensive taxpayer paid holidays, or babbling unintelligibly into the microphone, amongst just a few things? But I'm sure you are happy? carry on!

I am glad to see extensive debate of the merits (or lack thereof) of Bill C-71 itself....

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by welsh

I am glad to see extensive debate of the merits (or lack thereof) of Bill C-71 itself....

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

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It's going to take time to see what shakes out of this mess. Bureaucrats could screw up The Lord's Prayer if they knew it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Bureaucrats could screw up The Lord's Prayer if they knew it.

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I'm thinking giving the RCMP a rubber stamp will lead to nothing good :)

[QUOTE=Gilroy;1056014]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bushmoose

Yes and because you are such a fan of both me and Justin, I have to post this also for your entertainment. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBThlIGUHAI

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This is what happens when the puppet strings are not attached ;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTQrOIbbrhM

Here's what happens when Sophie doesn't tell him what to say;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvihRQ1frHY

Here is another for you Gilroy! this is the guy you admire and love so much!
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=81a_1513941382
The man is an absolute joke!, former part time "Drama Teacher "

[QUOTE=Gilroy;1056130]When they go low we go high.

Getting back to the original post this is only a bill in the first reading so it might not pass.[/QUOTE

High........that explains a lot !!

Re validation of the licence, Goodale in introducing the bill for 2nd reading has promised a 24 hr online portal and no firearm info requested or retained for NR transfer.

So that part seems not too painful.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by welsh

Re validation of the licence, Goodale in introducing the bill for 2nd reading has promised a 24 hr online portal and no firearm info requested or retained for NR transfer.

So that part seems not too painful.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

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From what Goodale stated,even though dealers must keep their sales records for 20 years,the government will not be storing the data,plus,the Police still need a warrant to access that data......supposedly......just in case.:( It remains to be seen that when Police ask for the info without a warrant,if that will be considered being "unco-operative" leading to issues with business licensing down the road if you know what I mean.:mad:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

From what Goodale stated,even though dealers must keep their sales records for 20 years,the government will not be storing the data,plus,the Police still need a warrant to access that data......supposedly.

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I'm not sure I buy the warrant part. Pretty sure the inspection powers granted under the Firearms Act would allow access to those records. Which I think is the intent.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by welsh

I'm not sure I buy the warrant part. Pretty sure the inspection powers granted under the Firearms Act would allow access to those records. Which I think is the intent.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

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Yep,I wouldn't trust a Liberal if Jesus himself had his arm over his shoulder.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by welsh

I'm not sure I buy the warrant part. Pretty sure the inspection powers granted under the Firearms Act would allow access to those records. Which I think is the intent.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

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None of these provisions seem odious to me and pretty much the way it has been for years in relation to business records.I mean we still have to give info when buying ammo in this Province,I don,t see a big deal here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

None of these provisions seem odious to me and pretty much the way it has been for years in relation to business records.I mean we still have to give info when buying ammo in this Province,I don,t see a big deal here.

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I agree. The whole warrant thing puzzles me. Though I'm not certain if Goodale actually said "warrant," or just "judicial oversight."

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by welsh

I agree. The whole warrant thing puzzles me. Though I'm not certain if Goodale actually said "warrant," or just "judicial oversight."

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

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I distinctly heard him say "Warrant" in an interview last Saturday. I think it was a CBC interview,either that or CTVNews Question Period and he was quite specific..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I distinctly heard him say "Warrant" in an interview last Saturday. I think it was a CBC interview,either that or CTVNews Question Period and he was quite specific..

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Firearms officers inspecting businesses check those records now as part of their inspection process.
I can’t see the government taking a step back. Trudeau also didn’t know a licence was required to buy a firearm prior to these changes....??
Time will tell !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Trudeau also didn’t know a licence was required to buy a firearm prior to these changes....??
Time will tell !

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I think Trudeau was disingenuously taking the position initially taken by the Quebec bar association, that the only enforceable requirement is no reason to believe the buyer isn't licensed.

I don't think many people actually buy that argument but poly pushed it hard at one time.



Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Firearms officers inspecting businesses check those records now as part of their inspection process.
I can’t see the government taking a step back. Trudeau also didn’t know a licence was required to buy a firearm prior to these changes....??
Time will tell !

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I know DRPS still check ammo sales on a limited basis,but,I don't think they check firearms sales unless a serious incident has occurred. It was at one time very labor intensive and a real PITA. Been there,done that,although,new data processing technology since those days greatly assists merchants with unlimited storage soft ware,so,it's likely not a significant issue,now. Data security may be more of an issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I know DRPS still check ammo sales on a limited basis,but,I don't think they check firearms sales unless a serious incident has occurred. It was at one time very labor intensive and a real PITA. Been there,done that,although,new data processing technology since those days greatly assists merchants with unlimited storage soft ware,so,it's likely not a significant issue,now. Data security may be more of an issue.

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In Toronto we never went near the records of the stores as local firearms officers,the OPP always historically did the stores part in the city in relation to records of sales inspection.

Goodale knows nothing in C-71 is good for law abiding Canadians
http://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/XRender/en/...20Firefox/59.0

and is now seeing what else he can get away with it looks like.

http://winnipeg.citynews.ca/video/20...ult-rifle-ban/

Public Safety Minister to consider assault rifle ban
Public Safety Minister, Ralph Goodale says he would consider a ban on assault rifles in Canada. “It’s an idea that has been proposed,” he said. “When the details…are available for study I would look at it.”
May 08, 2018, 5:54 PM



So what will the weasels define an assault rifle as .....


Dictionary? The NEW definition....
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...ssault%20rifle
assault rifle
noun
Updated on: 27 Apr 2018
Definition of assault rifle

: any of various intermediate-range, magazine-fed military rifles (such as the AK-47) that can be set for automatic or semiautomatic fire; also :a rifle that resembles a military assault rifle but is designed to allow only semiautomatic fire






????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mosquito

So what will the weasels define an assault rifle as .....

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Looks like Mr Trudeau thinks the RCMP will do his dirty work...

Quote:

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Police, not politicians, should decide what restrictions to place on specific kinds of guns, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Tuesday, his Liberal government under renewed pressure to curb access to semi-automatic rifles.

Trudeau's comments come after a group of people affected by last year's deadly Quebec City mosque shooting -- a number of wounded, as well as family members of the six people killed -- urged him to outlaw military-style weapons outright.

He touted provisions of his government's firearms bill, which once passed would restore the authority of RCMP experts to classify firearms without political influence, repealing cabinet's authority to overrule Mountie determinations.

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https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/unde...lice-1.3920549

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mosquito

...and is now seeing what else he can get away with it looks like.

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Not really ... he's actually saying that he's *not* considering any move on assault rifles, in carefully vacuous political speech.

“It’s an idea that has been proposed."
translation:
"Yes I'm aware somebody wants this."

“When the details…are available for study I would look at it.”
translation:
"We are actually not looking at this at all and we won't until somebody comes up with a detailed proposal and even then no promises."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mosquito

The NEW definition....

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Hate to break it to you, but that's the old definition. I have found numerous examples of gun magazines using "assault rifle" to denote semi-autos such as the Mini-14 in the 1980s. Merriam-Webster is catching up to usage 30 years after the fact.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Looks like Mr Trudeau thinks the RCMP will do his dirty work...

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Nope. This is just an another example of vacuous political speech. Trudeau is passing the buck to police instead of admitting he has no plans.

The RCMP does not have the power to ban anything unless it meets legislated criteria in C.C.C. 84 (1). Any move on assault rifles or semi-autos generally would require new legislation.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Looks like Mr Trudeau thinks the RCMP will do his dirty work...

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/unde...lice-1.3920549

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I think that was the general idea. They're thinking that the "heat" won't come back on them. SMH

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I think that was the general idea. They're thinking that the "heat" won't come back on them. SMH

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exactly...the common voter doen't know any better so he can try to pass the buck :)

Well with their committee and the RCMP they can say talking points like "experts" and that letter with 75 names there is "public demands" (ignoring the 75,000 names on the scrap C-71 petition) and the ideologues will say "see it is good" or "nothing to see" or "just an another example of vacuous political speech" and the uninformed will just nod along and not care....

All while the criminal is unaffected... even if the odd one is caught.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...sing-1.4653687
After sending the van to a secondary search and calling in a detector dog, their hunch proved right when 19 handguns and 32 over-capacity magazines were discovered hidden behind panelling.


... and the unbrained will say .... "see C-71 us already having an impact" .... even though this kind of smuggling has been illegal for .... not sure about laws before the registration so I guess 84 years.


... and of course
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/illi...-web-1.4592937

It's my understanding, as a PAL holder, that my name is run through CPIC everyday to verify I can still possess firearms.
If I lend my buddy one of my guns for the 2 week deer season am I to assume I also need to verify his PAL everyday he has my gun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onelessarrow

It's my understanding, as a PAL holder, that my name is run through CPIC everyday to verify I can still possess firearms.
If I lend my buddy one of my guns for the 2 week deer season am I to assume I also need to verify his PAL everyday he has my gun.

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A valid, practical question.

Answer is no. The change in C-71 affects transfers where there is a change in ownership. Loaning a gun will not require validating a PAL.

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Very good, thanks

Welsh, thanks, some of us do appreciate your rational explanations , and comments.

I go to Quebec every year for duck openers. I'm wondering if the Quebec gun registry will be. Problem?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by terrym

I'm wondering if the Quebec gun registry will be. Problem?

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Nope..

see: https://www.oodmag.com/community/sho...tration-Quebec