A question about taking a nine year old turkey hunting

My Friend wants to let his son shoot a turkey on our farm using a twenty gauge while he is with him. And then Tag it using his turkey tag. As I understand it this is against the Law.. my question Is why what's wrong with that. Why is it against the law. he is teaching his son to hunt and creating lifelong memories. His son has been on many turkey hunts with him (is that against the law too?) and he has proven that he can shoot the twenty gauge straight. When i was a boy my dad took me out hunting rabbits and groundhogs and even let me shoot some myself.

It just is, at 12 he can become an apprentice and not be illegal but as the case is now it just is.

It is no different than having him drive a car, we do not let it happen, no matter the supervision.

in my mind, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but technically it is against the law.
Driving 101km/hr in a 100 zone is also technically against the law, but if no one sees you, there really is no harm done.

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Originally Posted by Fox

It just is, at 12 he can become an apprentice and not be illegal but as the case is now it just is.

It is no different than having him drive a car, we do not let it happen, no matter the supervision.

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With respect, a nine year old going hunting with his dad and shooting wild game is a lot different then driving a car. Fifty, a hundred years ago it would be normal part of life for most boys growing up in the country..

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Originally Posted by chomper

My Friend wants to let his son shoot a turkey on our farm using a twenty gauge while he is with him. And then Tag it using his turkey tag. As I understand it this is against the Law.. my question Is why what's wrong with that. Why is it against the law. he is teaching his son to hunt and creating lifelong memories. His son has been on many turkey hunts with him (is that against the law too?) and he has proven that he can shoot the twenty gauge straight. When i was a boy my dad took me out hunting rabbits and groundhogs and even let me shoot some myself.

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As said its the regulation of our sport. The first rule too be taught to a young/new hunter that there are rules to the game and a good hunter learns to follow them above their own self interest.

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Originally Posted by FishHog

in my mind, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but technically it is against the law.
Driving 101km/hr in a 100 zone is also technically against the law, but if no one sees you, there really is no harm done.

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The harm done is starting off teaching that if the rules don't suit you ignore them if no ones looking.
Is that really the lesson you want to teach the next gen of hunters.

People sometimes differentiate between the "letter of the law" and the "spirit of the law". I think this is one of those cases. It is illegal as per the regs. But I am not sure that most CO's would lay a charge here. I think a lot of us were introduced to hunting before we had all the licences, courses and registrations required. In this case, the father is there, it is his tag and there is little difference than if he shot it himself. This is far different that someone just going out and hunting without a licence, harvesting over the limit etc. Lastly, I think that the U.S. has it right with youth hunters being able to hunt earlier than 12. But that is just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by chomper

With respect, a nine year old going hunting with his dad and shooting wild game is a lot different then driving a car. Fifty, a hundred years ago it would be normal part of life for most boys growing up in the country..

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So was driving your dads car or farm truck.

I happen to think that they are very similar, ya, some of us learn to drive a beater pickup on the farm and hunt/shoot very early in life but you are barking up the wrong tree here. You have stated that it is illegal but you have no problems with it, essentially trying to force people to agree with you, but I know of a large number of 9 year olds that should not have guns in their hands, I also know a number of 40 year olds that should also not have guns in their hands.

Go out and convince the MNRF that apprentice licenses should be allowed for younger ages, this is how we ended up having the apprentice license and bringing the hunting age down from 15 to 12 with a shared gun and direct supervision.

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Originally Posted by KennyT

People sometimes differentiate between the "letter of the law" and the "spirit of the law". I think this is one of those cases. It is illegal as per the regs. But I am not sure that most CO's would lay a charge here. I think a lot of us were introduced to hunting before we had all the licences, courses and registrations required. In this case, the father is there, it is his tag and there is little difference than if he shot it himself. This is far different that someone just going out and hunting without a licence, harvesting over the limit etc. Lastly, I think that the U.S. has it right with youth hunters being able to hunt earlier than 12. But that is just my 2 cents.

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You have to understand that times have changed significantly. Someone that would have a 9 year old to go out hunting with them could been born in the 1990s, they have had all the courses and probably hunted as people leaving the suburbs to hunt rather than growing up on a farm like most did in the past.

I have seen what from others around me what charges for doing stupid things can get you and what I love to do has way more on the line than having a kid shoot a bird at 9. I do agree though with you that there are circumstances where an 8 or 9 year old could safely hunt as an apprentice and I think that the licensing for this could be reduced from 12 to a lower age, but if we go to 9 or 8 why not 5? How about 4? Is there a limit that we keep the parent from saying it is ok for their child to do it or do we leave it 100% to the parents?

Some people follow the rules to the point of anal oppression that'll give you 'roids. Learning to hunt with Dad is a time-honored tradition,old enough for the apprentice program or not. Just sayin'...............

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Some people follow the rules to the point of anal oppression that'll give you 'roids. Learning to hunt with Dad is a time-honored tradition,old enough for the apprentice program or not. Just sayin'...............

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Yes......I know what I would do, and it wouldn’t be posted !!!

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Some people follow the rules to the point of anal oppression that'll give you 'roids. Learning to hunt with Dad is a time-honored tradition,old enough for the apprentice program or not. Just sayin'...............

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Fully agree.

I think most people with a stable head on their shoulders would approve but not publically announce it...and then there are the law abiding holier than thous that have already spoken. Give the guy a break stop being so goddamn paranoid about living your life according to every law written. You must live a very bland and boring life I dont have time to waste talking to those types of people.

If I speed down the highway and get a ticket I accept the consequences of my actions and take it like a man. I was raised this way and will raise my son the same instead of being some paranoid civil servant wuss. Governments rise and fall all the time why waste your life living someone elses mandate. Make your own decisions in life and dont look back and dont regret it. If you get pinched for doing something the law says is wrong take it like a man and move on. Sometimes thats just the cost of doing business in the real world. Take off your tinfoil hats and join the rest of the world, its actually alot more comfortable living this way. He who is without sin cast the first stone, otherwise shut the duck up stop spewing your verbal diarrhea. Over and out, ill be back during deer season too many fish to catch to be bothered reading peoples crap.

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Originally Posted by Fox

You have to understand that times have changed significantly. Someone that would have a 9 year old to go out hunting with them could been born in the 1990s, they have had all the courses and probably hunted as people leaving the suburbs to hunt rather than growing up on a farm like most did in the past.

I have seen what from others around me what charges for doing stupid things can get you and what I love to do has way more on the line than having a kid shoot a bird at 9. I do agree though with you that there are circumstances where an 8 or 9 year old could safely hunt as an apprentice and I think that the licensing for this could be reduced from 12 to a lower age, but if we go to 9 or 8 why not 5? How about 4? Is there a limit that we keep the parent from saying it is ok for their child to do it or do we leave it 100% to the parents?

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And you have to understand nobody lives in the perfect world you are trying to preach not even yourself. Save the sermon...Dont tell me you never break the law in some way shape or form. Pretty harmless if this is the law hes choosing to break, its not like hes telling his kid to go murder people in cold blood. I would have been proud of my father for letting me hunt when I was 9 and later in life would have thought...yeah dad was a bit of a badass, glad he wasnt a stuck up prickleberry!...hes not ruining his kid for doing this just cause hes interpreting the law differently then you do. You must be the guy I pass everyday on the highway driving 100kmh 10 and 2 on trhe steering wheel checking their mirrors routinely every 10 seconds like clockwork. Relax, its OK.

I never shot a 20 guage, not sure how the kick would be on a 9 yr old shooting heavy turkey load. That would probably be the only reason I can see the age being at least 12. That he is not hunting on his own and making decisions on his own and can safely handle a shot gun recoil is the main concern.

" What happens in the blind stays in the blind" I can see the scenario playing out; kid shoots turkey, proud as can be he tells everyone at school, teachers find out and authorities show up at house.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Yes......I know what I would do, and it wouldn’t be posted !!!

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Yep........me too

[QUOTE=ihunt;1059554

" What happens in the blind stays in the blind" I can see the scenario playing out; kid shoots turkey, proud as can be he tells everyone at school, teachers find out and authorities show up at house.[/QUOTE]

This is where you teach your kids that discretion is the better part of valor. From an early age,our kids were taught to "zip it" when teachers started asking personal questions that were none of their business and to report it to us immediately. We have zero tolerance for nosy academic SJW's.

It really depends on the kid. Has to wiser then his/her age, to realize that breaking the law is still not right. This could lead to breaking a lot more later on. The other issue as stated above, will the child go bragging to their buddies. That the quickest way to get into trouble.

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Originally Posted by Deer Wrastler

And you have to understand nobody lives in the perfect world you are trying to preach not even yourself. Save the sermon...Dont tell me you never break the law in some way shape or form. Pretty harmless if this is the law hes choosing to break, its not like hes telling his kid to go murder people in cold blood. I would have been proud of my father for letting me hunt when I was 9 and later in life would have thought...yeah dad was a bit of a badass, glad he wasnt a stuck up prickleberry!...hes not ruining his kid for doing this just cause hes interpreting the law differently then you do. You must be the guy I pass everyday on the highway driving 100kmh 10 and 2 on trhe steering wheel checking their mirrors routinely every 10 seconds like clockwork. Relax, its OK.

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That is fine, you go out and do whatever you want.

The problem is that we have laws for a reason, we now let the 9 year old hunt with you because it is ok. Then you decide that the 9 year old can have their own gun when you are out there, no different than if I was there. Now the 9 year old should just be able to hunt on their own, heck, no harm no fowl.

What is stopping you from shooting an antlerless deer without a validation tag for it, heck, you see lots of animals, it won't hurt. Now, you have paid tons to the government for all those years that you did not get a deer, why not just shoot one without a license. Heck, why should seasons matter? The deer being shot in the summer is the same deer that gets shot in the fall, who cares.

Do what you want, you will deal with the consequences of your actions. If you come on here and ask if we think that the apprenticeship age should lower than fine but essentially you are coming on and saying that your friend will be getting his kid to poach a turkey and you think it is perfectly fine.

Here is another example of a thread descending into stupidity...enough already.

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Originally Posted by Deer Wrastler

And you have to understand nobody lives in the perfect world you are trying to preach not even yourself. Save the sermon...Dont tell me you never break the law in some way shape or form. Pretty harmless if this is the law hes choosing to break, its not like hes telling his kid to go murder people in cold blood. I would have been proud of my father for letting me hunt when I was 9 and later in life would have thought...yeah dad was a bit of a badass, glad he wasnt a stuck up prickleberry!...hes not ruining his kid for doing this just cause hes interpreting the law differently then you do. You must be the guy I pass everyday on the highway driving 100kmh 10 and 2 on trhe steering wheel checking their mirrors routinely every 10 seconds like clockwork. Relax, its OK.

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Well said! Whos he hurting or bothering?

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Originally Posted by dilly

Here is another example of a thread descending into stupidity...enough already.

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X2............Totally agree, he just can’t stop and won’t go away no matter how many times told............. :whacked: :whacked:

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Originally Posted by dilly

Here is another example of a thread descending into stupidity...enough already.

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And we can see who is causing it , the guy who posted the thread above yours.
How can we get this BS to stop?

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Originally Posted by duckslayer

X2............Totally agree, he just can’t stop and won’t go away no matter how many times told............. :whacked: :whacked:

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I truly believe he is one of these;

The Persistent Debate Troll
This type of troll loves a good argument. They can take a great, thoroughly researched and fact-based piece of content, and come at it from all opposing discussion angles to challenge its message. They believe they're right, and everyone else is wrong. You'll often also find them leaving long threads or arguments with other commenters in community comment sections, and they're always determined to have the last word – continuing to comment until that other user gives up.

Sorry but I didn't even want to respond to that guy after he suggested that by taking a boy hunting before the age of twelve it was a slippery slope that would eventually turn him into a poacher..That's insulting.. But I got a feeling he would go on and on so I just bit my lip and let it go..This Boy loves going out hunting with his father, can shoot a twenty pretty darn good and comes from a good family with a long tradition of hunting and fishing. (They buy hunting licences every year, abide by game laws practice conservation and contribute to habitat enhancement..) and now by my understanding someone made a law making it illegal for any child under the age of twelve to go hunting with their Mother or father or Grandparents.. I wonder how this helps protect our hunting heritage. The mentorship program is great for introducing people outside our hunting community to experience the wonders of our sport but if the grandfathers, grandmothers, fathers or mothers feel their child is mature enough to go hunting with them and even take a shot then in my opinion (only my opinion) so be it.. Thank you for all your responses. I will not comment on this any further.

I see this has descended nicely into a back and forth. Figured I would add my 2 cents.

The 9 year old won't be charged with anything (a youth has to be 12). However, I think dad needs to really stop and think what lessons he will be imparting on his son. Every year, we get have posts on this forum about poachers not following game laws or hearing gunshots 15 minutes before legal light or hunters trespassing on land which doesn't belong to them or don't have permission to be on, et cetera. Somewhere along the line, those hunters were not taught to respect our game laws. How many times have we had threads on this forum where the OP finds themselves complaining that they are in a legal bind because they chose to ignore the game laws?

Will allowing the 9 year old to shoot the bird lead to a life of poaching and ignoring game laws? Probably not. However, there is an old saying that you reap what you sow. What about the next time or the time after that? We need to teach the next generation of hunters good hunting habits and in my opinion, a part of good hunting habits include following the laws. Driving & speeding were touched on as an example. When you are being taught to drive, do you teach the learning driver to follow the speed limit or do you teach them speeding is acceptable?

The 9 year old will have hunting memories because he got to spent time in the field with dad, not because he got to shoot the turkey. However, the OP's buddy will do whatever he wants.

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Originally Posted by chomper

Sorry but I didn't even want to respond to that guy after he suggested that by taking a boy hunting before the age of twelve it was a slippery slope that would eventually turn him into a poacher..That's insulting.. But I got a feeling he would go on and on so I just bit my lip and let it go..This Boy loves going out hunting with his father, can shoot a twenty pretty darn good and comes from a good family with a long tradition of hunting and fishing. (They buy hunting licences every year, abide by game laws practice conservation and contribute to habitat enhancement..) and now by my understanding someone made a law making it illegal for any child under the age of twelve to go hunting with their Mother or father or Grandparents.. I wonder how this helps protect our hunting heritage. The mentorship program is great for introducing people outside our hunting community to experience the wonders of our sport but if the grandfathers, grandmothers, fathers or mothers feel their child is mature enough to go hunting with them and even take a shot then in my opinion (only my opinion) so be it.. Thank you for all your responses. I will not comment on this any further.

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Just to be clear taking anyone hunting with you is not an issue and encouraged. The only stipulation is they can't actually assist in the hunt.
So yes a 9 year old or even younger can go on the hunt. Pulling the trigger definitely crosses the line into a clearly contravention of the regulations.

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

I see this has descended nicely into a back and forth. Figured I would add my 2 cents.

The 9 year old won't be charged with anything (a youth has to be 12). However, I think dad needs to really stop and think what lessons he will be imparting on his son. Every year, we get have posts on this forum about poachers not following game laws or hearing gunshots 15 minutes before legal light or hunters trespassing on land which doesn't belong to them or don't have permission to be on, et cetera. Somewhere along the line, those hunters were not taught to respect our game laws. How many times have we had threads on this forum where the OP finds themselves complaining that they are in a legal bind because they chose to ignore the game laws?

Will allowing the 9 year old to shoot the bird lead to a life of poaching and ignoring game laws? Probably not. However, there is an old saying that you reap what you sow. What about the next time or the time after that? We need to teach the next generation of hunters good hunting habits and in my opinion, a part of good hunting habits include following the laws. Driving & speeding were touched on as an example. When you are being taught to drive, do you teach the learning driver to follow the speed limit or do you teach them speeding is acceptable?

The 9 year old will have hunting memories because he got to spent time in the field with dad, not because he got to shoot the turkey. However, the OP's buddy will do whatever he wants.

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said better than I could

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

I see this has descended nicely into a back and forth. Figured I would add my 2 cents.

The 9 year old won't be charged with anything (a youth has to be 12). However, I think dad needs to really stop and think what lessons he will be imparting on his son. Every year, we get have posts on this forum about poachers not following game laws or hearing gunshots 15 minutes before legal light or hunters trespassing on land which doesn't belong to them or don't have permission to be on, et cetera. Somewhere along the line, those hunters were not taught to respect our game laws. How many times have we had threads on this forum where the OP finds themselves complaining that they are in a legal bind because they chose to ignore the game laws?

Will allowing the 9 year old to shoot the bird lead to a life of poaching and ignoring game laws? Probably not. However, there is an old saying that you reap what you sow. What about the next time or the time after that? We need to teach the next generation of hunters good hunting habits and in my opinion, a part of good hunting habits include following the laws. Driving & speeding were touched on as an example. When you are being taught to drive, do you teach the learning driver to follow the speed limit or do you teach them speeding is acceptable?

The 9 year old will have hunting memories because he got to spent time in the field with dad, not because he got to shoot the turkey. However, the OP's buddy will do whatever he wants.

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Very well stated Dyth!
There is an old saying, " The Apple Doesn't Fall Far From The Tree ",the young boy will learn whatever , be it good or bad, Legal/ illegal and this is usually what they carry with them the rest of their lives.