Light primer strike - CVA optima

I'm having an issue with my CVA Optima. It often does not fire. The primer strike is too light to ignite the primer. After the first time this happened, I completely dismantled the gun and cleaned everything thoroughly. While putting it back together, I noticed that the firing pit retainer could easily be tightened so that it was below flush with the receiver, and when this was done, the gun would not fire. Actually, the only time it will fire is when the retainer is flush with the receiver, but to achieve this, the retainer is actually so loose that I can turn it with light finger pressure. After a few shots, it stops firing again.
Has anyone had this issue, and what did you do to solve it? It is as simple as just getting a new o-ring for the firing pin retainer, or is something else needed?

I do not know the gun are you talking about but the Remington 597 has an issue where you can tighten things too much to get it to fail as well.

What about blue lock thread locker on the retainer? It could be broken free easily when need be and should not move during shooting.

I wouldn't mess with it. Imagine after you think you fixed it & then it fires when it's not supposed to or you miss a deer of a lifetime because of it. Take it to a good gunsmith & have it fixed correctly...

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

I wouldn't mess with it. Imagine after you think you fixed it & then it fires when it's not supposed to or you miss a deer of a lifetime because of it. Take it to a good gunsmith & have it fixed correctly...

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Turns out I probably would have missed a deer last muzzleloader season because the first time I tried to use it at the range after the muzzleloader season, it absolutely would not fire. A rep from CVA suggested that I should try replacing the spring on the firing pin. To me this spring is a return spring, so I cannot see how that would help. I don't think springs get stiffer over time, which seems like that would be the only way it could prevent the firing pin from striking. If anyone is familiar with this action, maybe they could explain what the rep is thinking? I won't be using loctite to address the problem, that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by rf2

Turns out I probably would have missed a deer last muzzleloader season because the first time I tried to use it at the range after the muzzleloader season, it absolutely would not fire. A rep from CVA suggested that I should try replacing the spring on the firing pin. To me this spring is a return spring, so I cannot see how that would help. I don't think springs get stiffer over time, which seems like that would be the only way it could prevent the firing pin from striking. If anyone is familiar with this action, maybe they could explain what the rep is thinking? I won't be using loctite to address the problem, that's for sure.

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So the firing pin retainer can be tightened with a screw? It can be tightened too much so that it keeps the gun from firing? Why would loctite not be a solution to keep the screw in the proper location? I am not familiar with the action but I do agree that springs do not get tighter over time, the only reason they would be tighter is if they corroded or had crud between the coils but a clean spring if anything would get loose if compressed for long periods of time but even that does not generally happen over the life of a firearm.

I assume that the firing pin is free to move back and forth in its channel? Not getting stuck in there at all.

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Originally Posted by Fox

So the firing pin retainer can be tightened with a screw? It can be tightened too much so that it keeps the gun from firing? Why would loctite not be a solution to keep the screw in the proper location? I am not familiar with the action but I do agree that springs do not get tighter over time, the only reason they would be tighter is if they corroded or had crud between the coils but a clean spring if anything would get loose if compressed for long periods of time but even that does not generally happen over the life of a firearm.

I assume that the firing pin is free to move back and forth in its channel? Not getting stuck in there at all.

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The firing pin retainer is basically a bolt with a slot head and a hole in the centre through which the firing pin passes. There is an o-ring on the retainer that presumably seals the firing pin/hammer/trigger assembly area from blowback from the primer. The spring that the rep mentioned pushes against the back of this retainer and onto the firing pin. The entire assembly of 4 parts (retainer, o-ring, spring, firing pin) is screwed into the action, basically in-line with but facing away from the breech plug. Loctite would keep the retainer in position for a while until shock from the primer bashing against it as the gun is fired loosens it. Also because of the proximity of the loctite to the firing pin and trigger mechanism, there is a risk that some loctite could find it's way into these areas and foul things up and cause sticking, maybe hangfires.
In retrospect, I wonder if the rep from CVA suggested replacing the spring because he figures that it is providing outward pressure on the firing pin retainer which could keep it tight in the threads without being screwed in too far. I don't know.
I could bring the gun to a gunsmith, but I suspect it's just a matter of changing some of the parts mentioned above, which I can easily do myself. The only problem is getting these parts as CVA won't ship them to Canada. The only listed distributor "nearby" is BassPro in Vaughan, but they don't list any of these parts on their website. Maybe I will have to make a trip to Ogdensburg to import them myself.

Anyway, I was really hoping someone on the board has run into this problem before and can comment on how they solved it.

I shoot a optima and never had this problem. You can replace O ring at the fire pin housing with a thicker one but if the O ring is to thick it may interfere with closing breech and the barrel may not lock when you close it. The thicker O ring here may push the housing that holds spring and firing pin out too far and cause a tight closing of barrel.
There is infor on the web for CVA Optima about placing a O ring into breech plug hole than put the 209 into breech plug to reduce curd from getting into firing pin hole, this will push your primer out farther. I believe the size of that O ring is a German metric 4.5mm but make sure u get the high heat ones or they will break from the heat.
I tried different 209 primers also and put O ring around the 209 primer than put primer into breech plug to reduce curd to do this and found some primers measured longer in length and made closing too hard.

Did you try a different breech plug.

I have a thread locker that is a gel, I got it from Canadian Tire, it is made by Permatex I believe. You screw up the tube like you would a glue stick and the gel comes out, not nearly as much of a chance of oozing out and it sets up quickly. I am curious as to how hot it can get but shock does not hurt it, I use it on all my scope ring screws and nothing has backed out.

This is the setup?

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/media...ng-pin-set.jpg

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Originally Posted by tracker

I shoot a optima and never had this problem. You can replace O ring at the fire pin housing with a thicker one but if the O ring is to thick it may interfere with closing breech and the barrel may not lock when you close it. The thicker O ring here may push the housing that holds spring and firing pin out too far and cause a tight closing of barrel.
There is infor on the web for CVA Optima about placing a O ring into breech plug hole than put the 209 into breech plug to reduce curd from getting into firing pin hole, this will push your primer out farther. I believe the size of that O ring is a German metric 4.5mm but make sure u get the high heat ones or they will break from the heat.
I tried different 209 primers also and put O ring around the 209 primer than put primer into breech plug to reduce curd to do this and found some primers measured longer in length and made closing too hard.

Did you try a different breech plug.

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I did not try a different breech plug. If I loosen the breech plug a little bit, it sometimes allows the gun to fire, but this is not a solution I want to rely on. I could probably find a small shim to bring the plug out a bit, but this seems like a band-aid solution. I also thought about using an o-ring on the primer itself, but similarly, this seems like a band-aid solution. I believe that a gun should work as it was intended to, and if it doesn't there is something wrong with the gun and it should be repaired properly.

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Originally Posted by Fox

I have a thread locker that is a gel, I got it from Canadian Tire, it is made by Permatex I believe. You screw up the tube like you would a glue stick and the gel comes out, not nearly as much of a chance of oozing out and it sets up quickly. I am curious as to how hot it can get but shock does not hurt it, I use it on all my scope ring screws and nothing has backed out.

This is the setup?

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/media...ng-pin-set.jpg

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That's the set-up. I have the same thread locker you mention. Shock doesn't damage the thread locker on the scope screws because they are not being directly pounded on, and the screws are already tight. If the firing pin retainer is loose and I rely on thread locker to keep it tight, I believe the small amount of play that the thread locker is occupying will result in the eventual disintegration of the thread locker as the primer is pushed against the firing pin retainer over and over from the pressure in the barrel upon ignition.
Also, the firing pin retainer is meant to be easily removed because the area needs to be cleaned frequently. If there's thread locker in there, the frequent removal and re-installation of the part will result in thread locker making it's way into the action. It would be almost impossible to effectively remove thread locker from the threads in the action.

Is it possible that there may be a slight burr on one of the surfaces of the firing pin or the bushing that may interfere when you tighten it down.
You may have to examine both carefully with a magnifying glass.
Or another possibility is that the hole for the firing pin in the bushing is not concentric, or straight and the firing pin is binding when the bushing is tightened down.

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Originally Posted by rf2

That's the set-up. I have the same thread locker you mention. Shock doesn't damage the thread locker on the scope screws because they are not being directly pounded on, and the screws are already tight. If the firing pin retainer is loose and I rely on thread locker to keep it tight, I believe the small amount of play that the thread locker is occupying will result in the eventual disintegration of the thread locker as the primer is pushed against the firing pin retainer over and over from the pressure in the barrel upon ignition.
Also, the firing pin retainer is meant to be easily removed because the area needs to be cleaned frequently. If there's thread locker in there, the frequent removal and re-installation of the part will result in thread locker making it's way into the action. It would be almost impossible to effectively remove thread locker from the threads in the action.

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Seems like an interesting system.

A replacement spring may do it, if that keeps tension on the threads, so you are actually working against the tension of the spring when screwing in the retainer then that should help hold it but it boggles the mind that tight is too far to allow the gun to fire. Too bad you do not have an extra set of these parts to compare them, something is just not the right size, either the firing pin is too short or the retainer is not the right length.

Has this happened since day one with this gun?

Which breech plug are you using, the BH209 or black powder? If you have a vernier caliper can you measure depth of primer hole.

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Originally Posted by jaycee

Is it possible that there may be a slight burr on one of the surfaces of the firing pin or the bushing that may interfere when you tighten it down.
You may have to examine both carefully with a magnifying glass.
Or another possibility is that the hole for the firing pin in the bushing is not concentric, or straight and the firing pin is binding when the bushing is tightened down.

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I'll check it out, but the strange thing is that the problem only started recently after relatively trouble-free service for several years.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Seems like an interesting system.

A replacement spring may do it, if that keeps tension on the threads, so you are actually working against the tension of the spring when screwing in the retainer then that should help hold it but it boggles the mind that tight is too far to allow the gun to fire. Too bad you do not have an extra set of these parts to compare them, something is just not the right size, either the firing pin is too short or the retainer is not the right length.

Has this happened since day one with this gun?

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It's a recent problem. The cost to replace all 4 parts as a kit is apparently $13 USD, but they are out of stock for one of the parts, and they don't ship directly to Canadian customers.

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Originally Posted by tracker

Which breech plug are you using, the BH209 or black powder? If you have a vernier caliper can you measure depth of primer hole.

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I'm just using the standard one that came with the gun from the factory. I've tried 2 different types of primer, including CCI muzzleloader primers. Same result with both.

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Originally Posted by rf2

It's a recent problem. The cost to replace all 4 parts as a kit is apparently $13 USD, but they are out of stock for one of the parts, and they don't ship directly to Canadian customers.

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One of the joys of the rarity of muzzle loaders in Ontario, I have been through this just trying to get setup too, need a spare part wait 2 weeks.

You need a CVA firing pin shim kit which is approx. $7-8 USD out of the states. It comes with several shims to bring your firing pin bushing flush with the breech face. This will allow the firing pin to extend further into the primer (as it did before the bushing loosened up) and should eliminate your light/failed strikes and will keep the bushing consistently flush with the breech face.

If you have issues with blow-back from the primer as well (which I did as well as light strikes), this shim kit will also reduce the blow-back on the breech face and into the firing pin bushing - google is your friend as there are several suggestions on how much primer "crush" you may want to achieve. I'll throw the standard caution out that too much primer "crush" may result in unwanted ignition when closing the action, so make sure you know what you're doing and you're comfortable there! The primer "crush" shouldn't be necessary to eliminate your light strikes...

I'm not aware of a Canadian source for these, so there may be an Ogdensburg run in your future...

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Originally Posted by marx911

You need a CVA firing pin shim kit which is approx. $7-8 USD out of the states. It comes with several shims to bring your firing pin bushing flush with the breech face. This will allow the firing pin to extend further into the primer (as it did before the bushing loosened up) and should eliminate your light/failed strikes and will keep the bushing consistently flush with the breech face.

If you have issues with blow-back from the primer as well (which I did as well as light strikes), this shim kit will also reduce the blow-back on the breech face and into the firing pin bushing - google is your friend as there are several suggestions on how much primer "crush" you may want to achieve. I'll throw the standard caution out that too much primer "crush" may result in unwanted ignition when closing the action, so make sure you know what you're doing and you're comfortable there! The primer "crush" shouldn't be necessary to eliminate your light strikes...

I'm not aware of a Canadian source for these, so there may be an Ogdensburg run in your future...

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Excellent input - thanks a lot!

I tried to order the shim kit directly from CVA, but it has been....a difficult and unsuccessful process (I'm being kind with these words). In the end, I was told to contact "Triumph Sports" in Canada to get my shim kit faster. Apparently they are the Canadian distributor of CVA or BPI products. Has anybody ever heard of this company? I can't find any information about them.

I went through the same run around up here trying to locate the shims. Ended up ordering from MB Sporting Goods (google is your friend) in MA USA. I ordered the shim kit online and picked up in Ogdensburg NY. Shims were delivered there for pickup in a couple of days...

If you don't want to drive to NY to pickup, they will ship international to you, however make sure they go USPS (not FedEx/UPS) to avoid brokerage fees. you may have nominal customs fees once delivered (I usually don't for something with such a low value). I would call them to order if you want it shipped to Ottawa.

My CVA Wolf did the same thing to me when I first got it in 2015?... I ended up cleaning it up (lots of WD40) and it seemed to have solved the problem.

One other comment have you tried Federal 209 or Win 209?

They are a few thousand of an inch longer....

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Originally Posted by marx911

I went through the same run around up here trying to locate the shims. Ended up ordering from MB Sporting Goods (google is your friend) in MA USA. I ordered the shim kit online and picked up in Ogdensburg NY. Shims were delivered there for pickup in a couple of days...

If you don't want to drive to NY to pickup, they will ship international to you, however make sure they go USPS (not FedEx/UPS) to avoid brokerage fees. you may have nominal customs fees once delivered (I usually don't for something with such a low value). I would call them to order if you want it shipped to Ottawa.

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I was planning to pick it up in Ogdensburg, so maybe I will try the place you suggested. I have left the shim kit on back order with CVA, but who knows when that will arrive.

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Originally Posted by fratri

My CVA Wolf did the same thing to me when I first got it in 2015?... I ended up cleaning it up (lots of WD40) and it seemed to have solved the problem.

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I've cleaned the thing thoroughly and it didn't solve the problem. The problem is with the firing pin retainer. Apparently it is a common issue - I will never buy another CVA if that's the case.

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

One other comment have you tried Federal 209 or Win 209?

They are a few thousand of an inch longer....

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I tried some Winchester primers, but not the ones in the blue box, which are apparently the ones that are longer. I haven't tried the Federal primers.

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Originally Posted by rf2

I tried to order the shim kit directly from CVA, but it has been....a difficult and unsuccessful process (I'm being kind with these words). In the end, I was told to contact "Triumph Sports" in Canada to get my shim kit faster. Apparently they are the Canadian distributor of CVA or BPI products. Has anybody ever heard of this company? I can't find any information about them.

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So the place is actually called Agences de Sports Tri-Omf Inc. No website. I will have to call them to see if they would even ship to non-companies.

I called up Agences de Sports Tri-Omf this morning. Unfortunately they didn't have the shim kit, but they are sending me a new firing pin kit, and they said that this should fix the issue, I suspect at least until the o-ring gets worn out. No charge. Very good service I must say.