Advice needed

I am trying to decide whether to stick with my current rifle or look for something better suited to me. The rifle is used for deer hunting in the bush. My big problem is that I am very much left eye dominant (poor vision in my right eye) but I am of course right handed. I currently have a Savage Axis right handed bolt action 270. I only started hunting 3 years ago and I purchased this from a friend I hunt with and thought it was a reasonable starting rifle for me. I am thinking about going to a 30-30 Lever action rifle. I am wondering if this is a good choice or if there might be a better option. I appreciate any advice. Thanks.

Are you shooting left-handed?

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Sorry I should have included that. Yes I am shooting left handed.

I too am right-handed but left eye dominant. :)

Savage does make the axis in a LH model, though can be tough to track one down in a specific calibre.

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Are you asking about caliber? or functionality being right handed shooting off your left shoulder?

More functionality being right handed shooting off my left shoulder.

A friend of mine that I hunt with periodically, is left handed, he uses bolt action rifles in both left hand and right hand models, he also has and uses pump action, lever action , and has the odd left hand action semi auto shotgun.

Lever action would be good for u but the one thing look to c how it ejects the case potential of a hot case in the face or rolling down your shirt

I'm thinking Winchester 94 may be the best bet.

I use a Remington Model 742 Semi in the bush because of the fast action and usually multiple shots on running deer.
Caliber is your choice, i prefer 30-06 because of the available choices of bullet size and price for ammo is reasonable.

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Originally Posted by packmule

More functionality being right handed shooting off my left shoulder.

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Likely not cheap and can not advice who makes them in Ontario-but must be someone............there are gunsmiths making gun stocks for Left eye -right shoulder.
I handled one,and the scope comes up naturally to the left eye,yet all is to be operated with right shoulder-right hand.
If you think having an all around gun(moose at some ranges,not just a good bush gun)you may be better off going that way.

let us know................

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Originally Posted by Articcat

I use a Remington Model 742 Semi in the bush because of the fast action and usually multiple shots on running deer.
Caliber is your choice, i prefer 30-06 because of the available choices of bullet size and price for ammo is reasonable.

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[COLOR=#000000]"fast action and usually multiple shots on running deer," You mean you spray and pray? Fortunately you hunt several hundred miles away from where I do.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

I would recommend you trade in the right handed bolt and get a lever action. A Browning BLR in .308 would serve you well. They can be bought used @ $500-600 easily. Your bolt would cover most of that.

I am left eye dominant but right handed. I shoot left handed and I prefer using right handed bolt guns. Mind you that is more for target shooting and not hunting. I bought a Browning blr in 308 for a hunting rifle. Only down side is brass ejecting across your line of site but that never bothered me. You can also look for a pump action rifle. Not common but would be similar to a lever. My in laws use older remington pump rifles in 270.

Savage & Browning both make left-handed bolts. Depending who your local dealer is, these may be basically impossible to get. But I always see LH rifles in stock at Lake Huron Rod &Gun.

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

[COLOR=#000000]"fast action and usually multiple shots on running deer," You mean you spray and pray? Fortunately you hunt several hundred miles away from where I do.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Well, that was uncalled for !!!

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Originally Posted by gbk

Likely not cheap and can not advice who makes them in Ontario-but must be someone............there are gunsmiths making gun stocks for Left eye -right shoulder.
I handled one,and the scope comes up naturally to the left eye,yet all is to be operated with right shoulder-right hand.
If you think having an all around gun(moose at some ranges,not just a good bush gun)you may be better off going that way.

let us know................

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

[COLOR=#000000]"fast action and usually multiple shots on running deer," You mean you spray and pray? Fortunately you hunt several hundred miles away from where I do.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Remind me to never invite you to a driven game hunt. How soon your option changes, you complement the guy rolling running boar, but flame anyone that can roll running deer.

If he's got a safe back stop why the problem.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Well, that was uncalled for !!!

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Not really, too many let that comment pass, the first rule of hunting safety is control your muzzle, and be sure before you shoot. A big part of that is knowing what backstop you have behind what your shooting at. You don't really have time to make any evaluation of your back stop, generally beyond your first shot if you are shooting at deer running broadside. It can cover a lot of ground, firing recklessly at it could endanger other hunters. That especially true if you are hunting on public land. Meanwhile on private property there is no accounting for the many who choose to ignore property lines.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

Not really, too many let that comment pass, the first rule of hunting safety is control your muzzle, and be sure before you shoot. A big part of that is knowing what backstop you have behind what your shooting at. You don't really have time to make any evaluation of your back stop, generally beyond your first shot if you are shooting at deer running broadside. It can cover a lot of ground, firing recklessly at it could endanger other hunters. That especially true if you are hunting on public land. Meanwhile on private property there is no accounting for the many who choose to ignore property lines.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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I guess if all you hunt are deer standing with their face stuck in a bait pile, you wouldn’t know about hitting running deer ... but of course this is off topic !!

Quote Originally Posted by gbk View Post
Likely not cheap and can not advice who makes them in Ontario-but must be someone............there are gunsmiths making gun stocks for Left eye -right shoulder.
I handled one,and the scope comes up naturally to the left eye,yet all is to be operated with right shoulder-right hand.
If you think having an all around gun(moose at some ranges,not just a good bush gun)you may be better off going that way.

let us know................
Quote Originally Posted by Gun Nut View Post
[COLOR=#000000]"fast action and usually multiple shots on running deer," You mean you spray and pray? Fortunately you hunt several hundred miles away from where I do.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
Remind me to never invite you to a driven game hunt. How soon your option changes, you complement the guy rolling running boar, but flame anyone that can roll running deer.

If he's got a safe back stop why the problem.



Snowwalker-I belie my post about the Gun Stock has nothing to do with this debate about shooting at running deer..........:ashamed:Just saying since it showed up as to be quoted:D

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

Not really, too many let that comment pass, the first rule of hunting safety is control your muzzle, and be sure before you shoot. A big part of that is knowing what backstop you have behind what your shooting at. You don't really have time to make any evaluation of your back stop, generally beyond your first shot if you are shooting at deer running broadside. It can cover a lot of ground, firing recklessly at it could endanger other hunters. That especially true if you are hunting on public land. Meanwhile on private property there is no accounting for the many who choose to ignore property lines.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Do you only take deer that are standing stark still? We were taught as kids to shoot at running deer. Grandpa would put half painted cardboard inside a tire and roll it down a hill. The shooter that put more shots into the paint than missed got to hunt on the best watch.

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Originally Posted by gbk

Quote Originally Posted by gbk View Post
Likely not cheap and can not advice who makes them in Ontario-but must be someone............there are gunsmiths making gun stocks for Left eye -right shoulder.
I handled one,and the scope comes up naturally to the left eye,yet all is to be operated with right shoulder-right hand.
If you think having an all around gun(moose at some ranges,not just a good bush gun)you may be better off going that way.

let us know................
Quote Originally Posted by Gun Nut View Post
[COLOR=#000000]"fast action and usually multiple shots on running deer," You mean you spray and pray? Fortunately you hunt several hundred miles away from where I do.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
Remind me to never invite you to a driven game hunt. How soon your option changes, you complement the guy rolling running boar, but flame anyone that can roll running deer.

If he's got a safe back stop why the problem.



Snowwalker-I belie my post about the Gun Stock has nothing to do with this debate about shooting at running deer..........:ashamed:Just saying since it showed up as to be quoted:D

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Yup sirry abiut that:whacked:

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

I guess if all you hunt are deer standing with their face stuck in a bait pile, you wouldn’t know about hitting running deer ... but of course this is off topic !!

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No, I leave the running deer to my bro he seems to of figured out the lead on them. I prefer my deer standing still or on a nice slow walk. In my youth I once shot at a trio of bounding deer moving through a slash at the bottom of a ridge, I manage to empty the magazine on a .303 Enfield, all 10 rounds. Never cut hair. I concluded from that I was never ever likely to shoot a deer unless they slowed down a might. The first deer I took, was about 75 yards out, from a stand I was on, moving in a walk along the middle of a ridge. Place the cross-hairs of the .243 just behind its elbow joint and squeeze off a round. Actually I've never found bait piles very useful, and for along time I didn't realize it was legal to bait them. It's more useful to scout out the terrain and set up between where they bed and where they seek out natural foods and water.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

Wow this went off the rails. Should start a new post in hunting section about shooting at running deer and let the op get answers about his gun choice...

Thanks, I appreciate everyone’s advice. I’m leaning to a lever.

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Originally Posted by packmule

Thanks, I appreciate everyone’s advice. I’m leaning to a lever.

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I’ve seen guys shoot them very proficiently. I have a 93 that I haven’t run a round through. A buddy had your issue but has learned to shoot a pump very well . If you can, shoot each gun you are looking at to get a feel for them, then practise, practiseand practise some more until mounting your rifle becomes second nature.

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Originally Posted by packmule

Thanks, I appreciate everyone’s advice. I’m leaning to a lever.

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Smart decision. Lot's of choices. Take your time. Some great discontinued ones around like Savage 99, Winchester 88, lot's of BLR's around too. If buying new Mossberg, Henry. I have owned and used many many many rounds. It's fun to tinker with this stuff but at the end of the day a .308 will handle anything you dare shoot at. My current deer rifle is a Winchester 88 carbine in .308. Has a leupold VXR 1-4 on it. No, it's not for sale.

My preference in calbre is the 6.5x55 followed by the 308 (for it's flexibility), they had a bunch of left handed firearms awhile ago but it looks like this is the only one left.
They have a few like this.
https://www.tradeexcanada.com/conten...orter-65x55-59

If you watch and have some patience you may find a different one if this one isn't suitable, if you search the Hunting and Firearms forums here you will find a bunch of links to discussions on calibers. Search 6.5x55 as a suggestion .

Then you might also look at something like a single shot like this.
https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/single-shot-rifle/

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Yup sirry abiut that:whacked:

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Well if You would actually read my post this question would be redundant................:ashamed:

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Originally Posted by gbk

Well if You would actually read my post this question would be redundant................:ashamed:

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Your post got quoted along with One from Gun nut that I was replying to. I must have touched the multi quote button on your post before I hit the reply on his.. small screens and big thumbs

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

No, I leave the running deer to my bro he seems to of figured out the lead on them. I prefer my deer standing still or on a nice slow walk. In my youth I once shot at a trio of bounding deer moving through a slash at the bottom of a ridge, I manage to empty the magazine on a .303 Enfield, all 10 rounds. Never cut hair. I concluded from that I was never ever likely to shoot a deer unless they slowed down a might. The first deer I took, was about 75 yards out, from a stand I was on, moving in a walk along the middle of a ridge. Place the cross-hairs of the .243 just behind its elbow joint and squeeze off a round. Actually I've never found bait piles very useful, and for along time I didn't realize it was legal to bait them. It's more useful to scout out the terrain and set up between where they bed and where they seek out natural foods and water.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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So you admit to not having the skills to shoot running deer, and then bash the guys that do, or the guns they use.

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

So you admit to not having the skills to shoot running deer, and then bash the guys that do, or the guns they use.

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apparently gun nut is just a perfect model hunter. We should all be bowing to him. This thread got stupid with his post!

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

So you admit to not having the skills to shoot running deer, and then bash the guys that do, or the guns they use.

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I think Gun Nut is simply being honest and frankly I am in the same boat as him when it comes to hitting a running deer. When I hunted over dogs I did not have a scope on my old 742 and did not get much practice trying to hit a running deer as the camp did not manage to push any number of deer on that 800 acre lot, in which event I probably had no business even trying to hunt this way,I had not practiced on a target as Trimmer has eluded to.

Now I can tell you that even listening to the hounds running deer with another local gang, the Numerous shoots fired at the deer by numbers of hunters indicates to me
there are plenty of hunters out there who were just like me.

I then got my own place, I sit over a bait pile, food plot that Rick eludes to and kill my standing deer with my now scoped rifle.

From my experience with hunting gangs over the past 35 years I would say that one or two hunters out of ten would be proficient in hitting a rolling tire target mentioned by Trimmer, MAYBE there are other gangs out there that have real good markspeople in them with higher number of great shooters but IMHO I doubt it.

I take it the OP is shooting both eyes open and swinging at moving game here. That's the only scenario where I would see a cross-eye dominance issue. I too am cross eye dominant (shoot right but left eye is dominant) and it only becomes an issue for me with clay targets and birds. I get around it with tape on the left side that mutes the eye just as I mount the gun.

To the OP...if you have a favourite gun, have you tried a red-dot style optic mounted down the barrel? I have used these (Aimpont/EoTech) and they let me shoot eyes open over a rifle with no cross dominance issues. I have found that there is no issue with standing shots and cross eye dominance as I just look through the scope with my right eye and the left is closed.

Forgive me if the eyesight in your right eye is such that it is not an option to use it for sighting.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I think Gun Nut is simply being honest and frankly I am in the same boat as him when it comes to hitting a running deer. When I hunted over dogs I did not have a scope on my old 742 and did not get much practice trying to hit a running deer as the camp did not manage to push any number of deer on that 800 acre lot, in which event I probably had no business even trying to hunt this way,I had not practiced on a target as Trimmer has eluded to.

Now I can tell you that even listening to the hounds running deer with another local gang, the Numerous shoots fired at the deer by numbers of hunters indicates to me
there are plenty of hunters out there who were just like me.

I then got my own place, I sit over a bait pile, food plot that Rick eludes to and kill my standing deer with my now scoped rifle.

From my experience with hunting gangs over the past 35 years I would say that one or two hunters out of ten would be proficient in hitting a rolling tire target mentioned by Trimmer, MAYBE there are other gangs out there that have real good markspeople in them with higher number of great shooters but IMHO I doubt it.

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Shooting running yotes all winter keeps me in practise.....

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Shooting running yotes all winter keeps me in practise.....

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Best type of practice there is , that along with shooting jack rabbits when there was plenty of them around

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I think Gun Nut is simply being honest and frankly I am in the same boat as him when it comes to hitting a running deer. When I hunted over dogs I did not have a scope on my old 742 and did not get much practice trying to hit a running deer as the camp did not manage to push any number of deer on that 800 acre lot, in which event I probably had no business even trying to hunt this way,I had not practiced on a target as Trimmer has eluded to.

Now I can tell you that even listening to the hounds running deer with another local gang, the Numerous shoots fired at the deer by numbers of hunters indicates to me
there are plenty of hunters out there who were just like me.

I then got my own place, I sit over a bait pile, food plot that Rick eludes to and kill my standing deer with my now scoped rifle.

From my experience with hunting gangs over the past 35 years I would say that one or two hunters out of ten would be proficient in hitting a rolling tire target mentioned by Trimmer, MAYBE there are other gangs out there that have real good markspeople in them with higher number of great shooters but IMHO I doubt it.

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What we used to do as kids,now,is a fond distant memory. I can no longer use iron sights well,whether it be with running targets or otherwise unless shooting with both eyes open. I,too,am quite content with setting up a ground blind on a small hill overlooking a pasture or on a mountain side overlooking a wooded valley and letting my scoped rifle do the work. Alas,time marches on.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

What we used to do as kids,now,is a fond distant memory. I can no longer use iron sights well,whether it be with running targets or otherwise unless shooting with both eyes open. I,too,am quite content with setting up a ground blind on a small hill overlooking a pasture or on a mountain side overlooking a wooded valley and letting my scoped rifle do the work. Alas,time marches on.

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Isn't shooting with both eyes ope, the way it should be done ?
By closing one eye, you are limiting yourself and cutting off 50 percent of your vision and depth perception
Myself, I always shoot with both eyes open even when shooting a scoped rifle , this was taught to me way back in my late teens, by our shooting instructor in High School Cadet Program, rifle /shotgun and pistol, all with both eyes open.
However there are some that admittedly because of a malady of one type or another, can not do this.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I think Gun Nut is simply being honest and frankly I am in the same boat as him when it comes to hitting a running deer. When I hunted over dogs I did not have a scope on my old 742 and did not get much practice trying to hit a running deer as the camp did not manage to push any number of deer on that 800 acre lot, in which event I probably had no business even trying to hunt this way,I had not practiced on a target as Trimmer has eluded to.

Now I can tell you that even listening to the hounds running deer with another local gang, the Numerous shoots fired at the deer by numbers of hunters indicates to me
there are plenty of hunters out there who were just like me.

I then got my own place, I sit over a bait pile, food plot that Rick eludes to and kill my standing deer with my now scoped rifle.

From my experience with hunting gangs over the past 35 years I would say that one or two hunters out of ten would be proficient in hitting a rolling tire target mentioned by Trimmer, MAYBE there are other gangs out there that have real good markspeople in them with higher number of great shooters but IMHO I doubt it.

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Problem is basicly here in North America we practice to hit a bullseye on a target stand that is standing still. Over seas they practice for the type of shooting they need to do. They can hit still targets because they practice that, they also can hit moving targets because they "HAVE TO" practice that to pass their Hunting test and get licenced.

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Originally Posted by jaycee

Isn't shooting with both eyes ope, the way it should be done ?
By closing one eye, you are limiting yourself and cutting off 50 percent of your vision and depth perception
Myself, I always shoot with both eyes open even when shooting a scoped rifle , this was taught to me way back in my late teens, by our shooting instructor in High School Cadet Program, rifle /shotgun and pistol, all with both eyes open.
However there are some that admittedly because of a malady of one type or another, can not do this.

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Both eyes open helps find and track game, but squeezing the trigger and closing the non-aiming eye at the moment of the shot is a very good technique. The higher the power on the scope the better this works. With a 0X or 4X scope both eyes open on the shot, but with say a 24X scope you close the eye at the moment of the shot and reopen it. Works even better if your cross eye dominant. Your "good" eye can follow the game and your other eye only has to line up the shot for a split second.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Your post got quoted along with One from Gun nut that I was replying to. I must have touched the multi quote button on your post before I hit the reply on his.. small screens and big thumbs

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Thanx Snowwalker,appreciate it...........i know what you mean by small screens and big thumbs........:D:D:D

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I think Gun Nut is simply being honest and frankly I am in the same boat as him when it comes to hitting a running deer. When I hunted over dogs I did not have a scope on my old 742 and did not get much practice trying to hit a running deer as the camp did not manage to push any number of deer on that 800 acre lot, in which event I probably had no business even trying to hunt this way,I had not practiced on a target as Trimmer has eluded to.

Now I can tell you that even listening to the hounds running deer with another local gang, the Numerous shoots fired at the deer by numbers of hunters indicates to me
there are plenty of hunters out there who were just like me.

I then got my own place, I sit over a bait pile, food plot that Rick eludes to and kill my standing deer with my now scoped rifle.

From my experience with hunting gangs over the past 35 years I would say that one or two hunters out of ten would be proficient in hitting a rolling tire target mentioned by Trimmer, MAYBE there are other gangs out there that have real good markspeople in them with higher number of great shooters but IMHO I doubt it.

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Maybe a low 1-4X scope or a reddot scope and some practice would change your mind. Not everyone who hunts with dogs or semi autos are unethical.

Hitting running game is a hard skill to learn. All your life you were taught to hit by aiming "at" the target, and now you are trying to hit by aiming where you "think" it will be later.

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

Maybe a low 1-4X scope or a reddot scope and some practice would change your mind. Not everyone who hunts with dogs or semi autos are unethical.

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How about a red dot on a shotgun, and practice shooting bouncing rabbit clays at the range. Develop the lead and then switch to a rifle and rolling tire with a target center.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

How about a red dot on a shotgun, and practice shooting bouncing rabbit clays at the range. Develop the lead and then switch to a rifle and rolling tire with a target center.

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Red dots work well with both eyes open. I have a Bushnell TRS-25 on my Marlin 1895 mounted forward over the breech.

Thanks again for everyone’s help. I should have clarified the right eye is useless. Likely a lot of safe deer around me lol.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Hitting running game is a hard skill to learn. All your life you were taught to hit by aiming "at" the target, and now you are trying to hit by aiming where you "think" it will be later.

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That is what wing shooting with a shotgun is "all about " or shooting " flying " as the British call it .

Gilroy, sometimes dogs can run more than one deer, or boar as seen here.
Gunnut, I guess this is the "spray and pray" many on here speak about, or maybe not because he's using a bolt gun not a semi

https://youtu.be/7ob0fgc0I7A

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

Gilroy, sometimes dogs can run more than one deer, or boar as seen here.
Gunnut, I guess this is the "spray and pray" many on here speak about, or maybe not because he's using a bolt gun not a semi

https://youtu.be/7ob0fgc0I7A

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Well thanks for sharing that exceptional video with a great shooter but from my experience in camps this type of guy would be a rare find. I think some of the "old timers" who hunted deer over hounds for decades and who maybe had some previous military experience could pull of this type of shooting.The old Scottish "gillies" and German gamekeeper,s in the First World War and probably the Second filled the rank,s for snipers.But maybe the very best was our own Aboriginal shooter from here in Ontario by the name of Francis Pegahmagabow with his 378 kills in WW1 https://www.cbc.ca/2017/canadathesto...dier-1.4083644

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Well thanks for sharing that exceptional video with a great shooter but from my experience in camps this type of guy would be a rare find. I think some of the "old timers" who hunted deer over hounds for decades and who maybe had some previous military experience could pull of this type of shooting.The old Scottish "gillies" and German gamekeeper,s in the First World War and probably the Second filled the rank,s for snipers.But maybe the very best was our own Aboriginal shooter from here in Ontario by the name of Francis Pegahmagabow with his 378 kills in WW1 https://www.cbc.ca/2017/canadathesto...dier-1.4083644

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My dad is one of the guys that was a regular for shooting deer on a full run, but that was very rare when we used to use dogs. When hunting with dogs most of the deer kept stopping and looking back, moving ahead a bit then stopping and looking back, ideally you shoot them like that but you can still become proficient shooting moving targets.

I used to jump rabbits all the time, they are moving and moving fast, sure you have a shotgun but you still have to hit it.

You need to level on the deer and swing through the same as a shot on grouse or rabbits but most people stop and bang, shooting back or behind. I hunted in that camp with dogs for more than 10 years but never had one run by dogs to me, not one that I had a safe shot at but my dad would still put them down.

The comment on 1 in 10, probably accurate, my dad was the guy who always got them with good shots on running deer, another guy did ok before I started hunting with them but when he got rid of his bolt for a pump I think he missed every running deer. My dad bought 1 gun back in the late 70s early 80s, a pump 30-06 and that is still his deer gun, an extension of him and always hits where he aims, better on game than on the range too, ha ha, never saw a 1in group when he shot but a deers lungs are way more than 1in in diameter.

Back to the OP, if you get a 30-30 and shoot left handed get a top eject, an older win 94, this way you will not have the brass in your face but this would be a peep sight or open sight option.

Other left hand guns that are not specifically left handed are the pumps and semis but again, you have the brass flying by your face.

I have a cousin that is left eye dominant and right handed, used to shoot with his left eye holding the gun right handed, was awkward looking, I tried to teach him how to shoot left handed but he could not figure it out.

To Gun Nut
I don't hunt or conform to spray and pray, where we hunt deer during the rifle season our method of hunting is with doggers and sitters and it is mainly thick bush with many openings which is the way it has been done for eons and it works well. When deer start running away from doggers they are usually at full stride and you pick and choose your shots in the openings and when it's safe to do so. try that with a lever action or a bolt action on multiple deer as it it difficult to keep your eye on a running deer while you are cycling shells. Love or hate it that's my groups style of deer hunting. I also bow and shot gun hunt for deer which is totally different as you are in a ground blind or a tree stand and deer are typically walking or standing. Not sure how old you are or how much deer hunting experience you but in my 50 years of hunting and life in general I always think before I make comments like you did.

Fox,

"My dad is one of the guys that was a regular for shooting deer on a full run, but that was very rare when we used to use dogs. When hunting with dogs most of the deer kept stopping and looking back, moving ahead a bit then stopping and looking back, ideally you shoot them like that but you can still become proficient shooting moving targets."

The camp I hunted at the " boss" ran black and tan coon hounds and these dogs ran hard and fast and so did the deer LOL. It was a different hunt when I used my beagle
for a day, one of the camp guests actually shot a deer that day.

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Originally Posted by Articcat

To Gun Nut
I don't hunt or conform to spray and pray, where we hunt deer during the rifle season our method of hunting is with doggers and sitters and it is mainly thick bush with many openings which is the way it has been done for eons and it works well. When deer start running away from doggers they are usually at full stride and you pick and choose your shots in the openings and when it's safe to do so. try that with a lever action or a bolt action on multiple deer as it it difficult to keep your eye on a running deer while you are cycling shells. Love or hate it that's my groups style of deer hunting. I also bow and shot gun hunt for deer which is totally different as you are in a ground blind or a tree stand and deer are typically walking or standing. Not sure how old you are or how much deer hunting experience you but in my 50 years of hunting and life in general I always think before I make comments like you did.

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Actually, Articcat, it was your not thinking when you made the comment “ use a Remington Model 742 Semi in the bush because of the fast action and usually multiple shots on running deer,” that led to my remarks . Had you said something to the affect, “ use a Remington Model 742 Semi in the bush because of its fast action which can provide for a quick follow up shot on running deer,” the words pray and spray would have never entered my mind. It was the phrase, ‘multiple shots on running deer,’ that conjured up the words pray and spray.
Gilroy used the term shooting proficiency, too few people take the time to develop it. Although I may have an unrealistic expectation of what he has in mind. My bro’s experience comes to mind. He had two deer pushed by his stand that were being hard pressed by dogs, so they were moving. He fire once at the lead deer, which disappeared from sight down a low ridge. He levered his rifle and picked up the second deer with his next shot. It too disappeared in the same fashion as the first. Thinking he had a definite hit on the second deer. He climbed down from his stand to check things out, and found two dead deer a short distance down the ridge.
I use to shoot rabbits with him around the farm. He used his 44-40 with rabbit loads, I had a bolt action Sure Shot .22 We use to take them on the dead run with his dog driving them out of the long marsh grass. On one occasion a rabbit came running out. We almost fire to gather at it, however my bullet arrive first driving the rabbit off the line with his bullet.
I use to practice on tin can, you look over the back sight and place the top of the front sight just below the can and pull the trigger. When you get the feel for the right elevation for your line of sight over the rear sight, you can bounce tin cans with easy. On a running rabbit you do the same thing, move the front sight on a line just underneath the rabbit them move it an few inches a head of it path of travel and fire. It helps to have a gun that fits you. By that I mean when you through it to your shoulder the gun is automatically on target. I’ve carve a couple gun stocks base on a pattern that I’ve taken off that old Sure Shot for that reason.


You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting,
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

The camp I hunted at the " boss" ran black and tan coon hounds and these dogs ran hard and fast and so did the deer LOL. It was a different hunt when I used my beagle for a day, one of the camp guests actually shot a deer that day.

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We only ever used beagles and one beagle/walker cross when I hunted there, they used to have a beagle/lab cross and a trig hound and those dogs would run deer hard. They said when the big dogs were on the deer you raised the gun with the first deer and shot at the third because they were moving so fast, skeet deer hunting. That being said, almost every deer my dad shot up there was moving, I think there was only 1 that was not running. I only ever had one run past me, 1 walk quickly in heavy cover and one standing. The interesting thing is that the running one was in an unsafe direction (towards other standers), the walking quickly one lead to some trees coming down with 3 shots and the one standing also ended up with a tree. It is amazing how little you can see when using iron sights, the deer walked down and stopped, I already had the gun up and leveled on the vitals, aimed behind the shoulder and shot, the deer took off, moved the gun and saw a horizontal branch about 6in in diameter with a big hole in the one side.

I did not have any luck at that camp, one guy shot a deer on his first chase ever deer hunting and it was a borrowed gun he had only shot 5 times before the evening earlier, I spent 10+ years hunting there and never had a good chance to get a deer.

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Originally Posted by Fox

We only ever used beagles and one beagle/walker cross when I hunted there, they used to have a beagle/lab cross and a trig hound and those dogs would run deer hard. They said when the big dogs were on the deer you raised the gun with the first deer and shot at the third because they were moving so fast, skeet deer hunting. That being said, almost every deer my dad shot up there was moving, I think there was only 1 that was not running. I only ever had one run past me, 1 walk quickly in heavy cover and one standing. The interesting thing is that the running one was in an unsafe direction (towards other standers), the walking quickly one lead to some trees coming down with 3 shots and the one standing also ended up with a tree. It is amazing how little you can see when using iron sights, the deer walked down and stopped, I already had the gun up and leveled on the vitals, aimed behind the shoulder and shot, the deer took off, moved the gun and saw a horizontal branch about 6in in diameter with a big hole in the one side.

I did not have any luck at that camp, one guy shot a deer on his first chase ever deer hunting and it was a borrowed gun he had only shot 5 times before the evening earlier, I spent 10+ years hunting there and never had a good chance to get a deer.

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Pretty much sums up my same experience with deer over hounds in the same number of years. Well established camps who have been hunting on the same land for generations with good houndsmen of course do better,but such camps are not that common anymore.IMO

Ok, I thought I owe you all an update. Well I didn't go with a lever. I went to my local gunshop and He had a year old browning left handed 270 semiautomatic with a leopold scope that I went with. I believe I made a good choice. Can’t wait for November. Thanks again to everyone and best of luck to you all with your hunting in the future!

Sounds like you got a good gun and scope! You can't go wrong with Browning and Leupold.

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Originally Posted by packmule

Ok, I thought I owe you all an update. Well I didn't go with a lever. I went to my local gunshop and He had a year old browning left handed 270 semiautomatic with a leopold scope that I went with. I believe I made a good choice. Can’t wait for November. Thanks again to everyone and best of luck to you all with your hunting in the future!

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Nicely done Packmule. Welcome to praynspray crowd.. lol.

I think you made a good choice too. I'm as left handed as anyone could possibly be (I thumb through a magazine from back to front) and I know what its like to work in a world of stuff made for righties. My first pick for a guy in your position would have been to keep things simple like a single shot rifle with tang safety or the semi with tang safety.

Just realized my spelling error. Leupold not leopold.

Good choice.
Are you shooting with both eyes open?
If you're not, try that at the range to see if it helps with your eye dominance issue.

Hell I'm right handed and have a left dominate eye.
I shoot off the right shoulder.
Solution is simple. Close the left eye.
This is for rifle shooting.
Shotgunning can be a different problem.

Thanks for the suggestions Woodsman and Kilo Charlie but there’s little to no vision in my right eye.

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Originally Posted by packmule

Ok, I thought I owe you all an update. Well I didn't go with a lever. I went to my local gunshop and He had a year old browning left handed 270 semiautomatic with a leopold scope that I went with. I believe I made a good choice. Can’t wait for November. Thanks again to everyone and best of luck to you all with your hunting in the future!

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Excellent setup for Ontario big game. Also legal down South on Coyotes should you get the bug this winter. Browning&leupold both great products. One of the advantages that they didn't think to argue about in this thread is, semis can actually afford you a bit of concealment should you need a second shot. Deer will usually "bust" you as you cycle an action to reload. Not so with a semi. Enjoy your season, it's always fun with a new gun.:thumbup: