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The wife saw these pics on a community Facebook page with a warning to others that the horses were attacked on Saturday night.
Cant think what would do this beyond a big cat ? Sure to revive the big debate......
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Could a black bear do that?
Bears are maulers. They use their size and weight to tackle prey. Once on the ground they continue to maim and often finish a kill biting at the spine.
Cougars are precision killers. They will often take the windpipe on larger prey and the back of the neck on smaller prey.
Nothing about this says cougar to me.
Also, does the scratch across the back of the rump look like 5 toes to you?
I imagine a black bear [I]could[I] but not sure if it would ? Plenty of berries and apples around right now, I figured a bear would take the easy way before resorting to attacking a full grown horse.
I see at least 4 claw marks in one of the photos....
I seen the original post on this and the owner of the horse though it may have been a bear.no mention of a cat at all..
I bow hunt farms close to there. I also know that there's a quite few Bears in the general area. They've been there for a very long time and aren't hunted much because it's all private property and very difficult to get permission to hunt. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that was done by a Blackie. It looks like it to me.
There's about enough chance of it being a "big cat" as a samsquench....lol
I have watched documentary's on mountain lions (big cats) and it is common for them to jump off of a high perch onto the backs of there pray, not saying that's what did this but I can't imagine a black bear tackling a horse...…….grizzly yes but black bear??
Why not? They have no problem taking down a Moose.Quote:
Originally Posted by huntnmachine
That’s what I thought. Don’t believe it, just go to you tube.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
A black bear takes down an adult moose or a calf? I will have to check that out
My neighbor in the north watched what he called the biggest Black bear he's seen around his place for years cross his pasture and approached his two horses. He figures the only thing that stopped the bear from attacking was the two horses stuck together and stood tall with there heads high when the bear was feet away from them, and then decided to walk off.Quote:
Originally Posted by huntnmachine
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntnmachine
Easily !!
During the time we could only hunt Black Bears in the fall,the BB population exploded. Their main food after emerging from hibernation are newborn Moose calves and Cows which has greatly contributed to the severe decline in Moose numbers. Combine that with increased predation by Wolves,Coyotes,ticks, brain worm infestation and increased hunting pressure due to lack of adult moose tags and we've created the perfect storm for crashing populations of Moose. Apologies to the OP for almost hijacking the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by huntnmachine
It was a bear or cat. Apparently both are known to be in that area. Who knew?Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=397274
I didn’t know that bears took down adult moose, lots of people talking about bear sightings around here too,
Yes those claw marks are from a bear not a cat. Cat claws hook and slice, a cat's paws are flat against the animal because the claws are the weapon not the paws, The claws on a bear is secondary and the force of the blow delivered by the paw is the primary weapon. The claws will have a scooping action.Quote:
Originally Posted by dilly
Sasquatch. Lock your doors.
Ive seen a cow cougar attacked.. that had to be put down out West.. this was IMHO a bear not a cougar..
After all ,two things are sure(no expert in claw-paw marks so can not comment and not challenging no one)
A cougar is captured close by -see CTV
No DNA sample was reportedly taken to resolve the mistery(or no mention of it)
It would be interesting to find out and with DNA would be easy peasy.
NOW the big question is -ARE THERE COUGARS IN ONTARIO?
if there are any, you won't be alive to tell the tale, just your bones.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbk
Bears do have 5 claws , Cougars have only 4!Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Any bear claw marks we have seen around camp always showed 5 claw marks, as on the cabin door.
The pics of the horses back only show 4 claw marks , ?????
Hard to tell from the pics but it appears whatever it was was on top of the horse. Cats do have a fifth digit dewclaw that also comes into play. If the first pic is the right hip and the second pic is the left flank it's conceivable that if it was a cat it was on top of the horse, front claws gripping the back right side and back claws ripping the left flank trying to hang on. Would imagine it wasn't on for long, horse likely not impressed.
Or five with the skin between two craws marks removed making it look like four four claw marks.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Cat claws are used to hold the prey, and leave lines. Think about any time you have seen a house cat scratch someone, there are defined lines in the skin.
Yes they do have a 5th claw "dew claw " which is higher up on the inside of the front feet, which is used mainly in climbing /holding on.Quote:
Originally Posted by be2man
It is hard to tell from the pics, what animal it was .
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ugar_track.jpg
Front paw print of a cougar. An adult paw print is approximately 10 cm (3.9 in) long.[40]
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ncolor_paw.jpg
Rear paw of a cougar
Been scratched by cats numerous times , yes definite lines in the skin, and only 4 of them .Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
This site, shows images of cougar scratches on both horses and humans, scroll down.
http://www.google.ca/search?q=cougar...s+/+claw+marks
Couldn't find any good ones of bear claw marks on humans or horse, [tattoos] don't count.
MNRF's offical statement is that it is a bear attack and locals have seen a black bear roaming around.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...&theater&ifg=1
Did you read at the bottom of the post that they want to get a donkey?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
I can't see a bear that will repeatedly go after 450 to 700Kg horses being run off by a 150 to 350 Kg Donkey. They are just going to get a lot of donkeys killed.
Maybe a 65 to 80kg human with bow or shotgun would be a better idea. But you know "Horse People". "Sorry we don't want anyone hunting here incase they mistake the horses for a bear."
Donkeys are a very inquisitive animal and very aware of their surroundings, they get very noisy when something strange gets into their neighborhood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Their are quite a few sheep farms around that keep a donkey a [ jenny ] just for that purpose [alarm ] , lets the owners know that something/someone strange is around, Often you will also see a donkey out with a herd of horses , for that reason.
There are 3 donkeys within a mile of us, 3 different farms , we can hear their braying from our place , usually it's caused by coyotes close by or on the farm at night.
Yea I read that and laughed a bit (to be fair I think this was before the MNRF stated it was a bear attack) at the thought of a donkey charging towards the bear attacking a horse and the bear stopping and thinking to itself "Oh look. The kitchen sent out an appetizer!".Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Horse people are sometimes very odd. Somehow they think that a hunter is going to mistake their 1400-ish lbs horse for a 200 lb deer with antlers.
Most definitely , horse people are of a different breed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
No we don't allow hunting on the property as we don't want the horses shot.
The reason for keeping a donkey , us for alarm purposes as I mentioned in my previous post.
A good friend of mine , was losing sheep to coyotes till I told him to get a donkey [ jenny ] he hasn't lost one since, they are a great alarm system, which the coyotes apparently do not like, so this may work with bears, ???.
The treason for a jenny[female ] is because an [jack ] can be very aggressive and will injure the sheep.
Must be a lot of bone piles of hunters out west !!Quote:
Originally Posted by poltrojan
Once the bear kills the donkey I’m gunna hunt over it.
Yes. They are great for Coyotes, and have a well earned reputation for being effective Coyote killers.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
That is what Fred Bear did on one hunt. Bought an old pack mule that was on it's last season, had gone lame on the trip in.Quote:
Originally Posted by glen
Took it out in the woods shot it, and left it for bear bait.:thumbup:
But I am guessing you knew, and that is why you said that..:ashamed:
What happens if the bear eats the alarm system? Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
If you think the reply was needed and added value to the thread-so be it................Quote:
Originally Posted by poltrojan
Well your post did imply that all big cat/human encounters are 100% fatal for the humans, and that you would not be able to see a big cat and live to tell about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbk
Sounds more like you are thinking about xenomorphs then Cougars.
I guess the horses at that time are forgotten about and the owner needs another alarm! lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
The alarm would be the appetizer, or something for the doggy bag..:(Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
You don't understand, people with horses do not allow any hunting as "they do not want their horses shot ".Quote:
Originally Posted by glen
Horses can be very spooky when it comes to the sound of gunshots!
Maybe I'll clarify something, my brother is all the time out in the Rocky Mountain ranges due to his job (forest firefighter, medic ski patrol, ski hill crew). He told me a couple of things, a bear will give you enough attention and warning of its surroundings. A cougar will not. I don't think I need to even write it here in hunter forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
The horse has bear marks; not cougar. I'm surprised that the horses itself met a bear encounter this close considering they spend most of the time in the open pastures. I was around the horses for 2 years on hobby farm; they rarely stray under woods or any dense vegetation, their preference is always and has been open pastures.
Our oldest son has a hobby farm with boarded horses. We found out the hard way that horses and loud noises don't mix. Too bad we can't use suppressors. I wasn't going to buy a Bear tag this year,but,because that's close to my stompin' grounds,I just changed my mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Why worry about scaring the horses, by shooting rifles. Does no one bow hunt for bears?
Yes I guess you have try to explain how all cat/human interactions result in dead people. If your comments were true, then there would be more dead hikers then deer every year.Quote:
Originally Posted by poltrojan
To bow hunt Bears,we need to be able to set up bait stations. With the new baiting rules requiring special permissions from landowners and nearby residences and road/trail distance tolerances,except in certain rare circumstances,that makes baiting virtually impossible in this section of the province. Spot and stalk is nearly the only option which needs long range knock-down power,generally, the toughest way to hunt,real tricky in populated farm country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
You have bait on the hoof, what more do you need?:joker::thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
It seems you are still beating around the comment you made: cougars = dead people.Quote:
Originally Posted by poltrojan
I was in the Rockies myself several times,and met many people living there,out in the bush,on several occasion. None ever was ever worried about cougars.But they all carried big guns,and talked a lot about grizzlies.Bear is a bear.By any means i do not say cougars are not dangerous-but i believe if someone makes a "not so friendly"remark,could fess up and stand up for the remark,or stand down.Not to go avoidance ways and beat around the bush..........
Now for the hunters" who suppose to know about bear giving enough warning of its surroundings" on THIS forum ,so there is no need to write about it here in hunter forums -you implied-why not ask the poor souls "HERE"in Ontario,which ones have been mauled and /or killed by black bears ,without any warning.Upon request i can list publicized cases from the last 10 years or so.
Oh,and by the way-the cases will be from Mid north-Central Ontario,none from way up North.
If the poor horse,who seems to have a bear jumped on its back ( bear jumping on a tall ,fast ,potentially very aggressive horse)could talk.......................
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/...G1e?ocid=ientp
SALEM, Ore. - Oregon wildlife officials with guns and dogs will hunt for a cougar believed to have killed a woman while she was hiking in rugged terrain near the state's highest peak, a wildlife official said Wednesday.Diana Bober, who at 55 was an avid and experienced hiker, apparently fought the cougar with repellant, a sharp object and a stick, her sister said.
Bober's body was found Monday, almost two weeks after she was last heard from. She was the first person known to have been killed by a cougar in the wild in Oregon, and the second in the Pacific Northwest this year.
Exactly Werner-the Lady who was killed in Oregon was the first ever casualty ever recorded in Oregon.The other person in Washington state was the"second"killed by cougar ,second one after someone was killed 94 years ago!!!! 94 years.........(as far as the news reports states)Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
"In May, a mountain biker in Washington state was killed by a cougar on a trail east of Seattle, the first fatal attack in that state in 94 years."
Oregon+Washington 250+180=430 000 square kilometers-Ontario a Million.But lets say about half not suitable for cougar.
Oregon+Washington population 11.5 mil-Ontario 13.5 mil.
Very similar conditions for comparison.Yet there was 3 fatalities in 94 years(or ever..)so chances of human bones as a result of a cougar predation, laying around in Ontario are ......hmmmm..............slim:D..........at worst............nill at best.
If the horse kicked or stomped on the bear, that may have been the last thing that bear ever attacks. Horses can mess you up bad real fast when they want to...
our group hunts the Pontypool area we have caught bears on cameras when set up for deer and seen them when hunting . the horse farms are a couple k down the road from us, going back a long time ago buddy came out of the bush looking white and scared saying he had seen a cat but that was years ago and have not heard about any other sightings since then
Many years ago while sitting on a Deer watch south of Algonquin's east gate,I watched a bull Moose deliver a well-aimed rear hoof kick to the ribs of a Blackie that killed it within 5 minutes. I actually heard the Bears's rib break and the death moan. If a Moose can do it,it's child's play for a PO'd horse. I've seen what three horses will do to an errant Coyote and believe me,it ain't pretty.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30