Shot at 40y did t hit piece of paper. Moved in to 30y put three pellets on paper. Rem 870 20” smoothbore rifle sights. 12ga 3” OO buck.
That ain’t gunna get it done. Any thoughts please.
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Shot at 40y did t hit piece of paper. Moved in to 30y put three pellets on paper. Rem 870 20” smoothbore rifle sights. 12ga 3” OO buck.
That ain’t gunna get it done. Any thoughts please.
Use a slug?...
I am no help with buckshot
I might be forced to use slugs.
What choke are you using?
Try a longer barrel and an Extended choke.
Extended choke should help more the flush choke because of the longer taper in the extended choke allowing for tighter restriction.
Best luck with the pattern.
I've used Federal buckshot (12 pellet) with the flitecontrol wad and a mod choke screwed in my rifle sighted smoothbore barrel. Put the 12 pellets into a 12 x 12 INCH pattern/group at 30 yards. After that it started to open up and start to string out horizontally.
Buckshot should be banned
The OOD magazine just did an article on buckshot (I can't seem to find it though) with some pattern board info. There's a time and place for it.
I'm sure buckshot has it's place in killing things.... varmints maybe ? If you are going after deer I would only advise slugs or sabots. I have seen too many deer wounded because of buckshot and too much time wasted in tracking them. I have even shot deer that had buckshot in them from the year before.
Lots of good slug loads out there that won't drain your wallet. BTW when I say slugs I am talking about rifled slugs.
I'm a big fan of using slugs. Buckshot is too unpredictable for me.
Barrel is 20” smooth bore fixed improved cylinder choke
I guess it’s made for snugs not buckshot.
Try the Challenger slugs out of your smoothbore barrel. I find they are accurate in my gun but every gun has it's own likes and dislikes.
Buckshot is not my choice either. Like most things, there can be a use for it and of course if someone is going to use it out of it's effective range then all bets are off.Quote:
Originally Posted by longpointer
Buckshot, does help to feed a lot of coyotes and other scavengers when they find the dead deer , after they run off wounded and die later because some hunters always want to stretch the range and hope they get lucky.
I agree. The last deer I skinned out had a total of 10 buckshot pellets just under the skin starting behind the front shoulder going back the rear hind quarter on both sides indicating to me that it was shot at and hit twice,neither one of which was lethal. Obviously,they were old wounds. I was NOT the least bit impressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldtrip
That was a good article...Quote:
Originally Posted by kickingfrog
If you found pellets under the skin like that it's a sign that it's the fault of the Hunter/Shooter, NOT a problem with the ammo. Buckshot will kill a deer very effectively, when used within it's limitations.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Use a slug .
I had a same problem since using slug I never turned back ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by glen
Yessir,I agree. Hunters using buckshot seem prone to vastly under estimate it's effective range and ballistics. They also tend to use buckshot in slug barrels which should never be done because they won't pattern properly as noted by another poster here. It's been my experience after many decades of shotgunning and also appears to be conventional wisdom that buckshot should be only used in "choked" field barrels,rifled slugs should only be used in smooth bore barrels and sabots should only be used in rifled slug barrels.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I have some brenneke rottweil 3” 1 3/8 oz slugs. Have t shot any yet. Looks like they might kick a bit.
The ones I tried before were 1oz super x And they didn’t pattern well at 50y
Buy a muzzle loader
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Nothing wrong with buckshot, those that think there is don't know where or how to use it.
Buck shot max 30 yards full choke.
EEF 12 Gauge .675" Extended choke. ( that is 5 thousandths of an inch bigger then a 16 gauge bore by the way)Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Strings the buckshot out like a machine gun burst.
At 30 yards the deer is not walking away.
Except that they claimed that the full choke was the best in all cases, except for the Federal load where the full choke was the worst at all ranges and the Federal load with an Improved choke beat all the other loads at all the other ranges.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
To the OP, you do not give enough information for anything here, your load is a single load, you did not choose other types or sizes or chokes and you did not note any of that.
This is about as useful as, I shot my 30-06 yesterday, did not hit anything at 100 yards, opinions?
Buckshot has been proven effective for many many years, there is a reason why it it still made, used and legal, but there are people who do not pattern it, do not stay within the effective range and ruin a fine thing.
Just remember, the 30-30 cannot kill deer, premium ammunition is the only thing worth buying, if your scope does not cost $2000 it cannot hold zero, etc.
Federal buckshot loads with their flight control wads perform very well. Pattern your gun and restrict your shots inside 45yards.
OP stated he was using a smoothbore barrel with a fixed ic choke. If he wants to use buckshot I would definitely try different manufacturers and start with the Federal load with the flight control wad. Another barrel with removable chokes might be a good idea to try as well. Failing that, start experimenting with slugs if you want/have to use a shotgun. Once you have found a combination you are happy with, practice with it and know your effective range.
Every year buckshot is bad x. For me, 5yrs x 5 deer all immediately downed by 00 Buck, all within 25-30 yards.
To many deer with this stuff get away never to be found.
Not permitted in my gang. I gave one guy some lenience a few seasons ago and sure enough he jumped a deer and blasted off. 4 miles of tracking and lost the blood trail.
Never again.
Unless you are really good at judging distance, just use a slug.
Although bad shots are bad shots....
It is very good in areas where you cannot see a deer beyond the limited range of buckshot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
There is one piece of bush I hunt with my dad, when I push it I prefer buckshot (3 1/2" 00) until I get through the crap, lots of dog wood, the main reason for the buckshot is that my range is never more than 10 yards in there and it works well when you walk up on one moving fast. Get out of that stuff and switch over to slugs.
I have not shot the controlled wad stuff yet, the 3 1/2" loads do not pattern any better than the 2 3/4" stuff in my gun but they have more pellets in that same circle, if the turkey loads prove anything then the Federal stuff with the flight control wad will be spectacular out of any more open choke, it actually has more of an open pattern with tighter chokes in the turkey loads.
Yup that makes sense.
Nothing is walking away in 10 yards.
Nothing wrong with buckshot.......................for home defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Indeed. My first buck was taken with 00. Dropped on the spot. Used appropriately, it's very effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
From the Remington website:
Remington Express Buckshot:
Delivers concentrated, balanced patterns. Ideal at very short distances ranging from 25 yards and closer.
I'm thinking slugs are a more realistic, and humane option
Try using 000 buckshot, bigger pellets, better penetration and as others have stated has its spots. I use 3 in 000 modified choke and at 50 yrds have a great grouping and lots of penetration. Prefer copper plated as they don't mushroom as much as the straight lead ones do.
Not if you deflect off a branch and hit it in the back end or leg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horridfiber101
Effects of buck fever on ability to judge distance is a terrible thing.
A bad shot is a bad shot and branches can ruin a clean shot.
Nephew lined up on a nice buck last year - 60 yards broadside and pulled trigger. Smokeless ML , 300 grain TTSX at 2600 fps. Clean miss - all it takes is a twig!
One reason I like buckshot in the crap, dogwood, you may have 1 or 2 pellets deflect but not 5 or 6, again, very limited range, very specific task but can be very good inside those requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
It is similar to a 15lb target rifle with a high magnification scope, not very good in a deer drive.
Slugs all the way. Have seen far too many deer lost to this stuff. Its banned in many if not all states.
There are a number of states that use buckshot, some that ban slugs due to the distance that they are still dangerous.Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
The 20” fixed improved cyl VS 28” with either mod or full choke.
The 20” is good for about 25y.
How far do you think the 28” will be good for?
If you think 40y I might try that.
The barrel length has no real impact on range, unless your barrel is so short that your velocity is reduced, a 20" barrel will not do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by glen
The range difference between a 20" barrel and a 28" barrel is 8", simple as that.
Try to find the Federal flight control wad and see what you get for a group at 25 yards with that stuff.
If you have screw in chokes try a modified choke then a full choke and if you want to put a bit of money into it there are a number of chokes designed for buckshot that help it pattern better.
The only way to know for sure is to go out and shoot your chosen ammunition through your gun. We can speculate all we want here but nothing beats actually shooting your gun/ammo at varying distances to see the results then staying within your limits to make a clean kill. I take it you are hunting in a controlled hunt wmu that requires shotguns only?Quote:
Originally Posted by glen
Which states??
Fox, you have a habit of trying to argue against something, but making statements that argue for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Read what you wrote, and I quoted back to you.
A 20" barrel may not be long enough to allow all the powder to burn when using a 3" high brass( heavy powder charge) shell like buckshot or slugs.
Most likely because the hunter was shooting out of range pass 25 yards, would I be correct?
The range of buckshot is 25 - 30 yards max and at that range the deer is dead with buck shot
Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
Shot my first deer 42 years ago with buckshot
There a guy on YouTube from Alberta if I remember correctly. Has a bunch of videos using buckshot on deer. Testing different sizes and he is using a short barreled gun. Very informative and surprising. I will try and find them and put up a link.
It's Brobee223 is the username
https://youtu.be/7lj4pzdigi8
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Slug.ssg.slug....works like a charm
Interesting video-
On his second video; he shoots a deer twice and it hops the fence- not a good testimony for the shot I don't think
But he dusted the skeet with the same shells
He has a few where they die quit quickly too. Everything has an effective range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horridfiber101
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It was in the 2018-19 Hunting Annual. Looks like you ether need to find the magazine or subscribe online.Quote:
Originally Posted by kickingfrog
Ok slugs it is.
Guess I’ll try those Brenneke 1 1/3 oz.
You know how Google works right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
https://www.kommandoblog.com/2017/05...ngth-velocity/
Pistol length barrels do not make the most out of modern powders, 18"+ length barrels burn up all the powder.
I used only a 23in barrel for everything for a long time, only got a 28in barrel because I wanted to leave my turkey sights on the 23in barrel and preferred a bead to sights for waterfowl.
Yes, I have personal experience with short barrels and buckshot, dead deer too.
Fox the charts are all for 2 3/4 shells. But if you look at the difference between the 18.5, 21, 26 and the 36" barrels there is about a 100 FPS increase. A 100 FPS difference in a shotgun is not peanuts. Barrel length has an effect. The more powder there is to be burnt, or the slower the powders burn rate the more of an effect it will have
Can you find the same test done with 3" shells?
Your 23" barrel probably allows 95% of all powder loads to be 100% burnt and gives good velocity.
100fps over the 18-36in range, not for one inch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
The standard 26-28in barrels vs a 23in or 21in barrel will not have that much of an impact, shotgun powder is a really fast burning powder.
The 3in load will have a tad more powder but not anything that will be significant really, when you look at 100fps you can have that much variation between shots or between barrels of identical lengths but different brands, it does not mean that a Remington barrel is better than a Winchester barrel due to the extra 100fps of the shot from the Remington (brands taken as examples, not testing).
The idea of the longer barrel and more range comes down to the old black powder days, the longer the barrel the more space to burn the old powders and the increased velocity, but this was only to a point.
You can be more accurate with a longer barrel if using open sights, you are simply lengthening the sight radius but accuracy and velocity are not the same, a short barrel (long enough to burn the powder) with a scope on it compared to a longer barrel with a scope on it will not lose anything for accuracy unless maybe the longer barrel makes it heavier for the shooter and they pull less.
The main reason for the 28in barrels is feel and point, I started out with a 30in barrel on a single shot, went to a 23in barrel on a pump, fastest gun to get on bunnies, now I like 30in barrels in a SxS 16, points great, short enough for the thick bush but never have I had any concerns about the speed loss by using that 23in barrel, it was my only gun and only barrel for it for a long time.
Fox, lets get back around to the reason I was pointing out barrel length.
Looking at Velocity not as cause and effect, but as a symptom.
Let me lay it out.
3" shell with heavy load using a slow powder.
Short barrel causes a lower velocity because of incomplete powder burn.
Wad cup crosses the transonic barrier before it fully opens.
Wad cup begins to tumble, and the shot load is scattered.
Ok, so 100fps between a 36in barrel and an 18in barrel, so 5.56fps per inch. Between a 28in barrel and the OPs 21in barrel is 38.9fps, does that have a great impact? Even with a 3in shell?Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
You speak to a slow powder, 3" OO Buck loads through the reloading data from IMR with a Winchester shell shot HS-6, HS-7 and Universal, 2 3/4" OO Buck loads with a Winchester AA Hull shot HS-6 and Universal, the powder difference between the 2 are 5.5gr for HS-6 and 4.4gr for Universal.
Now, when you are talking about slow burning powder, Universal rates as #33, HS-6 as #43 from the Hodgdon burn rate chart, 1 being the fastest. 4198 is a fast burning rifle powder, this shows up as #73, shotgun powder is really fast burning powder, adding a few inches of barrel or even moving to a "slow" burning shotgun powder you are still talking about a very fast burning powder in a relatively long barrel.
Fox, you can post powder burn rates till your keyboard melts, it does nothing to answer the question of " does the wad destabilizes before it fully opens".
Shoot the ammo and find out, what about the managed recoil loads? 1200fps at the muzzle vs 1325 fps for 2 3/4" standard load vs 1225fps for 3" standard load, are they using different wads in all loads? Their tactical loads that they market for short barreled tactical shotguns are 1200fps and 1325fps, are these also different wads?Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
You are asking a general question with respect to every single gun and every single load that has ever been produced.
It is the same as asking, will Remington Core-Lokt loads shoot well in my gun.
Nice blanket thing that has no answer.
You have to shoot your gun, the OP shot one load that he did not define and people started saying it was his barrel length, bologna, it is his gun/choke/ammo combo not producing the pattern that he wanted, stop blaming the barrel length, there are lots of other components and lots of other factors that have a much higher impact on the pattern.
Fox, tighter extended chokes was one of the first things I listed to try. Along with tighter chokes a longer barrel.
Are you American by chance?Quote:
Originally Posted by boogaloo
Hornady Critical Defence 12 gauge 00 Buck 2 3/4" buckshot pattern best out of my shotgun. Anything within 20 meters is dead.
Pattern test your load. Use 12” tin pizza pans. Once your pattern stops ripping them apart you have reached your range limit. Problem is many can’t judge range, especially with a deer bouncing by. I have hunted many tree stands where buckshot would have been very effective. Sounds like you have a slug barrel which are designed for slugs. I would stick with that.
Here's a test done by Ontario Out of Doors Hunting: Bruce Ranta.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnZjW3LX1Sg
Any idea how to get a copy of his target is it a print / painting ?Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
“When government becomes a law breaker, it breeds contempt for law”
Looks like a printout to me , in 4sections tacked to a plywood back drop .. just need a big printer or head to the local print shop and they can make it . Might be pricey but some like to pay to play lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by js4fn
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I love how in the magazine they claimed that the best choke in all situations was the full choke but when they show the evidence of hits for the Federal Controlled Wad are better with the Improved and Modified.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
There is so much proof that people actually need to shoot their guns, it is a crazy concept, but the idea of patterning has been out there for a long time and no one ammo is good for every gun.
As to poor range estimation, just only use buckshot where you have a restriction that limits that range to an ethical range. If you can only see a deer out to 25-30 yards then there is no way you can shoot at a deer at 50 yards, pretty simple, it is one that I used when hunting with a traditional bow, my stand was on a logging road, the only area not filled with trees was a strip 10 yards in front of me, if they walked down that road they were toast, outside of that an arrow would not have made it through the crap.
If its only good to 30 yards or whatever why not just use slugs. One huge hole. Will never agree with throwing shot at a deer. Too many horror stories ive witnessed first hand with my old mans deer crew. Slugs are way more effective on average. Even with a poorly placed slug you have a much better chance at recovery than with buckshot.
That's like saying you shouldn't hunt with a Bow because I've seen far to many horror stories of deer being badly wounded....it's not the buck shot, it's been proven to be lethal, it's the hunter not using it within it's limitations.Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
How so? An arrow has one broadhead. Not 8-12. I understand a few can use it effectively. But far more cannot. Everybody says inside 30 yards? If its that close why not drill it with a slug??? Less damage to meat. One projectile, 1 hole better blood trail for your best chance for a fast humane kill and recovery.
I personally dont know anyone that uses buckshot since the 80-90s using SSG's
I have no issues with buck shot, As long as used in its limitations. I bet most people think deer are closer than what they are and get buck fever and make bad shots and blame it on the ammo. I've personally debated buying some and trying as I'm always a dogger up north and any shooting I do is usually close and quick.
Lots of reasons to use buckshot in heavy cover, 1 slug being deflected and wounding vs 9-15 pellets with maybe 3-4 being deflected.Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
Lots of people claim they see deer shot with arrow wounds and that bows should be illegal. Guys come on here every year and say how a 30-30 is too small for deer. A 20ga slug has been beaten down as useless and should be banned.
Use whatever you want within its limitations and your limitations and it will be fine, buckshot kills and it does a very good job.
Pattern it and know your range.Quote:
Originally Posted by SongDog
Try the Federal Controlled Was stuff, I cannot stress those wads enough.
Try them in an improved cylinder gun and try attached wad slugs as well, like the Winchester Rack Master, Federal True Ball or Challenger slugs, you should be able to setup a very nice slug/buckshot combo that you can load OO Buck in the thick swamp then swap to slugs when you get into a more open area.
If you are shooting a vent rib gun without sights Williams sells a clamp on sight for the rib that is wonderful, adjustable for windage and elevation, it is a fiber optic sight too.
You owe it to the animal to make it quick and clean. Again if its 30 yards hammer it with a slug. Seems every 2nd deer i butcher has buckshot in it from old wounds. Learn to shoot slugs your far better off. Seldom will you see a good blood trail from buckshot. I wouldnt raise this argument without good reason.
I have killed deer with slugs and buckshot, actually jumped one that was wounded in the gut by a slug and killed it with buckshot.Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
Yes buckshot can be bad, a slug can also be bad, so can a bow and a 300 win mag, you do not have to use buckshot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41wBr7-QQlI
I think that the bottom line is, if it's close enough for ssg then why not use a slug that's more effective. Even with ssgs you shouldn't be shooting through thick brush in the hope that you hit the deer. If its not a good shot to take then don't shoot. It's common sense.
No doubt a bad shot is a bad shot. Although you will be far more likely to recover a deer hit with slug verses buckshot. You said it yourself your worried about deflection. I personally completely disagree with the spray and pray attitude. I had the sound off for that video. I do find it very odd why you would even think about using buckshot in that particular situation. I mean the deer is in a wide open field. Yes he put it down but to me not worth the risk of using buckshot. A well placed slug would put that deer down on the spot. I understand some will never change there minds about buckshot. I just find slugs to be far more superior producing more humane kills and much easier recoverys. Jmho
You really had to have the sound on for that video, the guy goes through all of his reasoning for everything, he does really good videos with the pros and cons of all of his decisions, very calculated.Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
I did not mean spray and pray, I meant a shot on a moving animal in thick crap, I have shot more deer jumped moving quick than standing in a field, just my luck I guess.
The slugs in the brush I have watched trees fall, aimed right on them and 1 deflection, close range, did not happen with buckshot.
I found the reference to buckshot being the only thing legal, southern states when pushed by dogs in drives, probably due to populated areas.
Check out the videos by bubbaroundtree Productions. They hunt deer in front of dogs and man drivers . Thu have laws that are buck shot only
Lots of Interesting data
Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldtrip
Exactly....slugs are not always the best choice. Hunters (especial doggers) feel it's safer to use buckshot. Some hunt camps are in built up areas and with the hunters/dogs on the drive in close proximity, they may NOT use slugs for safety concerns.Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchhunter
Can 't figure out why guys feel the need to tell others what they are doing is wrong without considering the reasoning behind the choices made.
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldtrip
Wouldnt a shot in thick cover at a moving animal be a spray and pray situation?? I was in a stand so will watch the video tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
This is a chat/info board. Simply stating an opinion on a topic that i feel strongly about. I just feel slugs are far superior on average than buckshot. People should always shoot there weapon of choice before we go afield no matter what. We owe it to the animals we harvest to do it as quickly and humanely as possible. Btw you should always know your target and whats behind it. Spraying buckshot in one of these tight area camps you talk of probably isnt all that safe anyway. JmhoQuote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
I assume you do not hunt in drives or hunt in groups, enjoy your bow hunting, I am sure someone here will attack it at some point this season, it is another one that comes up every year.Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
Here is the State law for South Carolina.
" Shotguns and buckshot only during dog drive hunts. "
http://www.dnr.sc.gov/regs/pdf/gamez1.pdf#page=9
Page 98
It is illegal to use anything but a shotgun with buckshot for deer during deer drives with dogs and they shoot a heck of a lot of deer, they even use #4 buckshot.
And im willing to bet they wound a whole lot more than what they recover. Most if not all the northern deer hunting states outlaw it. There all managed very well. For them to outlaw it says something for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
That would be a different thread. Supposedly that is what us guys with semi-auto rifles do.Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
Hunt in small groups. We sit. Personally not a fan of deer drives for many reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Hey dude. You have a lot of opinions. You need to tone it down a bit. I have humanely killed multiple running deer with buckshot inside it’s effective range with a “spray” of pellets in the side of the head and neck. Virtually NO meat damage. If you want to bet I have wounded many with buckshot, you will lose that bet.Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
Thats awesome! Good for you. Simply stating opinions based on what ive seen in my years in the field and butchering deer. I get there are different ways to hunt. I personally like my kills to be as quick and as clean as possible. Buckshot cant do that for me. Besides todays rifled barrels with slugs are deadly why not use em. I wont shoot at a running deer. Thats a personal thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by dilly
Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
You chase after the ducks? Once you learn to lead the birds, the deer are the same .
As for the buckshot I bet most of the wounded deer you see are from bad shots. People shooting way to far out taking 70 yard shots , many cant tell the difference between 20 and 30 yard . So the same People thinking a 50 yard shot could be closer to 70.
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The buckshot debate continues every fall .....
One question, and I apologize if it was asked/answered earlier, does anybody shoot 00 or 000 buck thru full chokes ? Will I damage my interchangeable chokes ? I also have a different style removable full choke on the 24” turkey barrel (Mossberg combo).... always thought that nice short barrel would be good in the bush but not sure about putting buckshot through it ?
I will be using sabots next week, but I do keep some buckshot around if I ever had to deal with a problem bear etc
If your shooting Sabots than you obviously have a slug barre, therefore do not shoot buckshot or regular slugs through the slug barrel
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
I use a extended choke in my 870 that is .675"( that is 5 thousandths of an inch bigger then a 16 gauge). The longer taper of the extended choke works fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
Just ask Line052...it makes nice tight holes at 20 yards.
If you have a full ckoke you should have no worries. Patten the gun, and use a smooth bore. Like GW says, rifled barrels are for slugs only.
Hunter John here has been successfully using Buckshot with his smoothbore for years..no problem :)
https://i.imgur.com/qot9yzxl.jpg
No need for me to shoot at a running deer. If i cant kill it clean i wont shoot. I diasgree with the spray and pray approach on whitetails. Nothing beats a well placed slug or sabot for a quick/clean kill.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood
Yea we get it, good for you....Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
...but there are other hunters that hunt they way they do and you shouldn't be judging them.
Ok, so you have a smooth bore barrel or a rifled barrel? If you are shooting sabots those should not be shot through a chokes smooth bore barrel.Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
As for buckshot through a full choke, it is lead shot, it is designed to shoot through a choke but you will not know how it patterns until you shoot it at paper to find out.
There are buckshot specific chokes but until you actually shoot what you have then you will have nothing to compare to, a full choke may not pattern as tight as a modified in your gun.
Why not? I have a rifled barrel that will produce one ragged hole at 50yds with attached wad rifled slugs. Taken my share of big deer with that combo in 72A. Could not find a sabot load i was truely happy with when i switched to a rifled barrel and found a certain type of rifled slug that grouped best. I dont have the extended range i wanted with a sabot, but i can live with itQuote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Yes, you can shoot whatever through a rifled barrel, you will not hurt it, but go out and pattern buckshot through a rifled slug barrel.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
You can shoot regular soft lead slugs through a rifled barrel, but at high velocity with no gas check you can get significant leading in the rifling and essentially turn your rifled barrel into a smooth bore, if it groups well then fine but it is not the intended purpose of the barrel.
[QUOTE=MikePal;1071839]Yea we get it, good for you....
...but there are other hunters that hunt they way they do and you shouldn't be judging
I truly love hunting whitetails. I hate seeing them wounded or not recovered.If theres a much better tool available why not use it?? Slugs
As explained earlier, in some scenarios, Buckshot is the best tool for the job due to MNR restrictions, Hunter Safety etc etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
Millions of hunters across North America use it successfully and although you find fault with it and you personally won't use it doesn't mean that others shouldn't use it.
Millions? Cmon now. Safety? Mnr restrictions? Spraying pellets at a running deer in a swamp? That sounds safe. I get i will never convince the old school guys and thats fine. If i convince one person thats a positive thing. Asked a few guys at the shop. 7 out of 8 wont use it. One even said its for guys who dont know how to shoot slugs.lol. Anyhow good luck to everyone next week.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Did you watch the Video?
Are you the worlds Sole expert? Buckshot under 30 yards is great in deep bush. Maybe bows should be banned many deer are found dead every year with a blade in them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
Buckshot used within its range limit is very effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
You don't shooting moving geese or ducks do you? :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
Guys, I have a rifled barrel for sabots, and two smooth barrels for waterfowl/turkey/whatever. I guess that could have been more clear but I did indicate the Mossberg combo shotgun,Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Anyway, thanks for the responses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Theres an intelligent comparison!
Perfect, you said you were using a combo but we just had someone talk about taking a screw in choke out for shooting slugs so we needed some clarification.Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
Pattern it, try those Federal Flight Control loads and see what it does.
I did watch the video. The guy even says it was luck and didnt hit where it was aiming. He never moved the camera to follow the animal after the shot. So how long did it take to die?? If you believe him he says it ran 150yrds. Let me tell you that is a very long way in a thick swamp and would be a very difficult recovery in thick brush without a paas thru. I disagree on using deer as experiments. You cou have dropped that deer on the spot with a well placed slug. So now guys here its good to 55yrds. Many dont have range finders and cant judge distances. 55 will actually be 65 or 75. Thats just gonna equal more wounded unrecovered deer. Shoot slugs! JmoQuote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
L
I one area we hunt you are pretty much shooting shooting through brush, there is probably a bigger chance in wounding a deer than using buckshot. I don't think any of the guy's in that area have shot there deer over 30 yards, last I took one there it was 20 yards.
And yes Bow hunting is a fair comparison or are you trying to say that very few deer are wounded by bow hunters if so I would call that complete BS. It all comes down to know what distance your game is at. I know exactly what 30 yards looks like as my lane way is 30 yards and my property is 100 yards (300) feet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
The number of deer shot with 270s and 3006 in the heart/lungs that I have tracked for 100+ yards, a bang flop is not the norm but I am sure you know that.Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
Hunters will always debate the pros and cons of buckshot vs slugs----For me the most telling thing was watching a hunter shoot at a target from 40 then 60 yards using buckshot. No two patterns where ever the same - some shots would have resulted in a kill and a number would not have. Where as using a slug from the same distance the result was the same each and every time. That consistency to me at any rate is the most important thing when counting on a clean ethical kill. Just my two cents---Regardless if you shot buckshot or slugs-best of luck to everyone this week.Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
A hunter that is shooting Buck Shot at deer at 40-60 yds is a hunter that hasn't patterned his shotgun. He's becomes fodder for the argument that a lot of hunters don't know their ammunition limitations.Quote:
Originally Posted by stilchen67
Were talking 12 guages. High shoulder shot will anchor em everytime with slugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Thats why i dont agree with it. Its never the same. Why take that chance? As hunters we owe to the game we hunt to make it as clean and ethical as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by stilchen67
From a safety standpoint you should always know what your shooting at whats behind it and in front of it. I hope your at least shooting downward from a stand. Today bows are very fast and accurate. We have not lost a deer with the bows in almost 10yrs. If you practice and know how to track its not an issue. An arrow is a single projectile that goes where you aim NOT a spray of pellets you cant control. So you cant really compare the 2. JmhoQuote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
Well there's a contradiction...purposely wounding an animal isn't a 'quick clean' kill and in some circles considered unethical....Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
So your saying every single deer in North America shot that way dropped dead in it's tracks, BS and you know that. As Fox has also stated I have tracked deer to with perfect shot placement that still managed to go quite always.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
A high shoulder shot anchors them everytime with a slug! When you hit the front shoulder they dont stand a chance on a broadside shot! A deer shot BEHIND the shoulder will run somewhat! But is dead in less than 15 seconds if double lunged. Both are lethal shots but the animal will be dead in its tracks when shot in the upper shoulder. Im referring to a rifled barrel with a scope. Fox was talking rifles. There can be bullet expansion issues at times depending on bullet type which may let the animal get out on you a ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Whats between the shouders?? Lungs! With bone/bullet driving thru them. Very ethical shot with guaranted recovery.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
Keep back peddling , I'm not buying it...HaHaQuote:
Originally Posted by kk1
A shoulder 'Anchoring' shot is NOT a kill shot...it an incapacitating shot. The animal lays in pain till the kill shot is delivered or it finally bleeds out.
Are you kidding? Not a kill shot?That animal is dead almost instantly and everytime! That slug is like a grenade when it hits bone. The damage is truly devastating. Back peddling? Really? I have no idea how you could not consider this a killshot. Do some reasearch.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I don't think so. Your dreaming if you think every deer will hit the dirt bangflop from a shoulder hit with a shotgun slug. Ive watched deer somehow run a short distance with both shoulders smashed out from a .730cal rifled slugs at close rangesQuote:
Originally Posted by kk1
The shoulder shot is NOT considered a 'quick kill' shot....
.Quote:
Shoulder Shots
Some hunters prefer shoulder shots because they will disable game while also inflicting fatal damage to the heart or lungs. Even when no collateral damage occurs, a broken shoulder, or two, will bring down an animal, rendering it helpless. In my opinion, this shot should be reserved for dangerous game, particularly bears. While some hunters use shoulder shots on larger animals such as moose and elk, I find the resulting dispersal of bullet and bone fragments ruins too much meat. Having shot a whitetail through the shoulder last year, I can speak first-hand of the meat that was wasted.
Another thing to keep in mind when considering the shoulder shot is that if you shoot too high or too far in front, you’ve got either a clean miss or an animal with agonizing wounds. And if you shoot too low, you’ve got an animal with a broken leg that can still escape, only to later succumb to its wounds or predators
INFLICTING FATAL DAMAGE TO THE HEART AND LUNGS! How much better of a kill shot do u want? I have never had to put a follow up shot into a whitetail using this. And NEVER had one go more than a few yards with almost all going down on the spot. It needs to be broadside. Again whats between the shoulders? Think about it? Consider it whatever you want i really dont care. Enjoy your season.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I do know so and everytime they drop! Rifled slug guns are tac drivers. If that slug is placed properly that animal will go nowhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
Oh really?...lolQuote:
Originally Posted by kk1
So a 30-06 is not a valid gun for deer, got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
Shot a yearling through the heart on the run with a full bore 12ga slug, all 4 legs went out on him, then bouced back up and ran again, no bang flop. Drilled a buck through the heart and both lungs with a Hornady SST slug at 50 yards, deer did not drop, went 50 yards with no lungs left in him.
You want to shoot them through the shoulders have fun with that, a lot of meat loss for nothing.
No projectile outside a cannot will guarantee a bang flop on a deer, you can claim whatever you want but it is obvious that you have not been around all that many deer shot when you claim that a 12ga slug will drop them in their tracks every time.
Thanks, yet again confirms that the shoulder shot is an "anchor' shot not a kill shot. It's one of those shots that leave the deer to suffer until a kill shot is administered or the deer is left to slowly bleed out. NOT a "quick kill'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardman
Quote:
"Seasoned deer hunters know that a bullet that’s shot through the scapula damages the brachial plexus, which is part of the central nervous system, and renders the animal almost instantaneously immobile."
Funny how you quote a piece of the article to suit you/your opinion. Almost like fake news!Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Its Time to get the boys ready for their morning stands
http://wiredtohunt.com/2009/11/13/th...shoulder-shot/
one more site
Good truthful article.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardman
You are DEAD wrong here! Read the article hardman posted. Or google is the high shoulder shot fatal on whitetails. Read some of the older fourms. Not sure where your getting your info from. If you dont wanna believe me thats fine. But at least do some reading.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Lol read the headline. 12 guageQuote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Not sure why your bringing rifles into this now. You will loose some meat no arguing that. Nice shot on the buck thru the heart and lungs. But you didnt hit the shoulder so if course it will run a bit. Two totally different shots. Can never go wrong with heart and lung shots. We hunt greasy stuff with lots of water. Thats why we take the high shoulder shot whenever we can. I can promise you i have shot way more than a few deer. Im not getting into numbers. So i know exactly what i am talking about. You also said that fawn you shot was running meaning the front leg could be fully extended which means no vitals will be behind the shoulder. Your comparing apples to oranges here in both cases.
You are comparing your high shoulder 12ga slug shot to everything else, you are insinuating that everything else is incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
If the deer is dead on its feet and can be found then the objective of the hunt has worked, be it buckshot, a 410 slug, 30-30, 30-06, 20ga slug, 12ga slug, compound bow arrow, crossbow bolt, longbow arrow, 300 win may, 50 BMG, I think you get the idea.
Legal, practical and useful for the appropriate ranges, heck, I could go on about how your 12ga slug is no good because you cannot kill the deer at 500 yards effectively due to the bullet drop, but that is not the discussion here, within its limitations the 12ga slug is great and so can any of the other legal options.
Your not getting what i am saying. The high shoulder shot is extremely effective. I hunt thick stuff out of a stand most of the time. I would never say its better than behind the shoulder double lung shot. Both get the job done. Although you may have to do a short tracking job. I am saying a 12guage slug is a much better choice than buckshot. You know where it goes everytime with a rifled barrel. In the video you posted the buckshot guy even said it was lucky and didnt hit where he aimed. Thats my point about disareeing with the use of buckshot. A single projectile placed properly will kill the animal everytime. You cant say the same for buckshot Forget about rifles and everything else thats another topic. I just feel we need to make a quick/clean kill on every deer we shoot at.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
I have years of practical first hand knowledge that trumps an internet article :)Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
I've hunted with a large gang (10-14) hunters for over 20 yrs. Most of that was with dogs and doing a lot of dogging. We had guys successful use buckshot to kill deer almost ever year...it was the gun/ammo of choice and the proper tool of choice for a dogger pushing a bush. The OP was right to question it's effectiveness and as many have said, from their own experiences, that when used within the range limitations it works fine.
As for shoulder shots...we had a couple of guys that use them. I can honestly say I don't remember ever seeing a deer die instantly from one, if it happened it was not the norm.
However most of the deer shot in the shoulder required a second kill shot. Sometimes the trauma was enough that the deer bleed out before the shot was necessary. But inevitably it usually laid there trying to get back up for a spell.
I did not say that the shoulder shot wasn't a kill shot...I said that it NOT a 'Quick' kill shot. It does no one any service to come on a forum and lead people to believe that a shoulder shot is a 'Quick' kill...it's NOT. Not as I have seen in my years of hunting nor have other members who have posted here.
The patterns I’m getting out of my barrel has me with a 25y shot max.
You know if the range is close enough it would be a lot like a slug.
I’m surprised it’s that short I thought 30 maybe 40. Anyway it’s all good info and one way or the other I’m gunna get a deer.
[QUOTE=MikePal;1072069]Thanks, yet again confirms that the shoulder shot is an "anchor' shot not a kill shot. It's one of those shots that leave the deer to suffer until a kill shot is administered or the deer is left to slowly bleed out. NOT a "quick kill'.[/QUOTE
Did you not "read the article thoroughly and understand it ?????
From the above link , provided by Hardman ;
That is why the high-shoulder shot has always been a recommended aiming target among gun-hunters. The shoulder blade, at its widest section, is about a 3-inch circle — a large target for a gun-hunter — that offers a wide room for error. Bullets kill deer via trauma. A shot that misses high will hit the spinal column; a shot that misses low will take out the heart; and a rearward shot will take out the lungs.
Well were gonna have to agree to diasagree i guess. It is 100% THE FASTEST WAY TO PUT A WHITETAIL DOWN. Most are dead before they hit the ground. Think about it? A large projectile basically becoming a grenade when hitting bone punching thru both lungs. Never needed a follow up shot. EVER. If your saying your guys use it and need a follow up shot. There probably shooting too far forward. Im sure your crew did kill some deer with buckshot. But I bet you found less than 1/2 of em. Anyway watch some videos and do some more reasearch. The high shoulder shot is 100% lethal almost immediately.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Thats great you took the time to figure your maximum distance. Most do not. No doubt its deadly in CLOSE. But if you do see a deer at 40yrds its too far. Hard not to squeeze the trigger. Best of luck on your hunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by glen
Yea I would be surprised you found an acceptable pattern past 25 yds....Quote:
Originally Posted by glen
Good Luck and Happy Hunting !!
The heart is an 8" target and you lose a lot less meat...Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
https://i.imgur.com/tson5Z9l.jpg
I’m on a stand and I have 25y marked so it will be easy to wait till then. I have lots of patience.
There are many hunters that do not, will not eat any organ meats so to them it doesn't matter!Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Many of them are on this forum!:)
I am not one of them.
There's some backpedaling or whatever you call it. And no im not arguing a heart shot. With a slug of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
The only way to drop a deer dead is to shoot it in the head which I hope no one tries. You typically still have to track it and find it bled out or finish it. And hopefully not using hail Mary ssgs.
Like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldtrip
https://youtu.be/fJr7Ph5SGO4
Quote:
Originally Posted by glen
My 870 smooth bore with rifle sights, shoots the Remington Sluggers very well. 40 yards would be no issue for me with that combo. I have not used it for deer yet as I mostly bow hunt, but I have took it out to the range plenty. I put 3 slugs into the bulls eye at 25 yards, after i tuned it in. I can hit a pie plate consistently at 70 yards.
Dannyboy are they just called Remington slugs. I want to try some.
Nasty...:scream:Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
It's called marksmanship and the understand of anatomy. More shooters need to master it and develop an understand of anatomy.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
I can not believe the number of people that hunt, but have no interest external Ballistics or the anatomy of the animals they hunt.
Indeed its lights out, not much left for a wall mount or picture....lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Head cheese is out of the question..Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
Not much room for error. The camp next to us almost completely blew the bottum jaw off a cow moose at a very close range while trying a headshot. That animal was never recovered.
That would mean that they passed up a broadside shot to the heart and lungs or an anchoring shot to the spine. Seems you have surrounded yourself with idiots with little or no marksmanship skills. There is a kill zone on the side of a moose's head equal to a butter Squash, while the kill zone for a heart and lung shot is a good sized watermelon. From the front or rear the kill zone for a head shot is only as big as a base ball( not a soft ball, a base ball).Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
But maybe you are going to tell us it was because they were using buckshot and not the magical slug?
Seriously? From the one who argues a high shoulder shot wont put a whitetail down everytime? Is it hard to understand that it was a neighboring camp?? I did not know the shooter personally We were simply told to keep an eye out for this animal. I would never attempt a headshot on a big game for this reason. Thanks for your expertise. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Why are you trying to antagonize people ? I thought that subject was finished on another thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Did the thought ever occur to you that the heart/lung area , and the spine was obscured by brush, making it a doubtful shot?:rolleye:Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Then why shoot at the head and blow off the jaw?Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Wait for the animal to offer a proper shot or do not shoot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Hind sight is always the greatest !
Buck Fever,nervous,jittery or hurried the shot, bullet deflected by branch, we were not there , we will never know!
Or at the moment the trigger was squeezed even though it was a perfect sight picture, the moose moved it,s head resulting in a wounded moose, the shot could have been a long shot , giving time between trigger pull and bullet arriving, for the head to move.
We don't know the circumstances.
I'm not even sure. Dont know these guys. I do know the shooter left camp the following day. A couple of others guys were pissed when telling us the story. All in all a horrible situation. Like fox said. Best to wait for a proper shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
As I said. we were not there and will never know what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
Criticizing is very easy from behind a computer keyboard.
What is the best shot? it can be different in many situations.
Unfortunately zhiit happens , ie; how many moose were misidentified and shot, I am not condoning any of this behavior, but it does happen and will carry on when we are all gone, because there are too many [hunters they call themselves] out there that are to eager to kill, "the brown is down attitude ".
They have that one week or two only, when they are able to get out and must kill something or they do not consider it being a good hunt.
They are not satisfied with the hunting experience, [outdoors and nature], to them they must kill something to satisfy themselves, [ego] even though they make mistakes by not intentionally identifying their target animal, or in taking the proper/best killing shot.
I had a camp boss give me crap for not shooting at a huge buck at 74 yards at 16 years of age with massive buck fever, the only thing I could see what half the head and the antlers, maybe he was pressured into it but it was still not the right shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
I saw a deer gut shot running, then the guy shot 4 more times and blew off all the legs, then another guy went up to where he was and tried to shoot it in the head, blew off the jaw, then he shot again and took out the neck.
That deer was a yearling, guts, all 4 legs, jaw and neck were all shot, not a vital hit until the neck about 15min after the first shot, most disgusting thing I have ever seen, not one of those "things happen" situations, just poor choices with no care for the animal it seemed.
You got the wrong guy with the high shoulder shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
X2......Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
This is the buckshot thread.....slug/buckshot in this thread..Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
We're just drifting along with everyone else..
Every gun is different, how many brands did you try? Just like you would in a rifle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by glen
You forgot...shooting the antlers. Have seen a few moose racks with bullet holes, or arrows sticking out of them on the wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
He can try using a 2 3/4 shell. Can't explain but it can make a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Was the buckshot buffered or unbuffered.
Line052 has a great load in a 2 3/4 shell with 9 #00 buck buffered with #8 shot that he promised to send me, but I still waiting...
Seems Hornady has improved buckshot somewhat with what looks a lot like a "flightcontrol" type wad. I tried this at work and was blown away. Gun was an 18" I/C barrel...pattern is 15 yards...the wad impacted under the pattern. (sorry about the target)
https://i.imgur.com/2uphxV4.jpg
Now you'll have to try 20 and 30..Quote:
Originally Posted by dilly
Yeah, we went to 20 because we were indoors. I didn’t take a picture but it was still pretty good. Would have all been in a lung sized area. I don’t intend to use this for hunting as I shoot 3.5” and the 18 pellets hit hard out of my gun. It’s a Beretta with 26” barrel and mod choke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Too bad you did not have a tighter choke to try, just to see if it was better. Of course 15 was tight. What size you figure the "lung size" would be? 6", 8"?Quote:
Originally Posted by dilly
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by fieldtrip
Why? For what reason? Every reason you give can also be used to ban bow hunting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by camotrky
X2 on big game.Quote:
Originally Posted by camotrky
How do you compare bowhunting to buckshot???Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Bad shots taken out of range . Not enough time to practice, hitting the shoulder and deflecting the shot . Not properly ranging the deer using the wrong sight pin. Shooting from up above the deer in a stand will not put the arrow where ya want it .Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
I'm sure there is more that's just off the top. Using a buck shot or a bow would have the same restrictions.
People hit and loose deer every year with bows .
Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
Except that when bow hunting for big game there's no other choice but to use arrows and broadheads.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Choosing to use buckshot over slugs is like carrying a bow in gun season.
Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
All depends on where or what your hunting . If you're in a area where 40 yard shots are mostly impossible then buck shot all the way . If your hunting fields and open areas the slug would be better . Every property would be different depending on the land and set up. So the use between both shots would be up the land and hunter either way both very effective depending on the land you hunt .Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
This topic could on forever but in the end they are both equally deadly depending on where you hunt
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In the areas I have hunted I think the farthest shot I have seen was under 50 yards and the majority were probably even under 30 yards. I know the distance for 30 yards quite well as my driveway is 30 yards and my yard is 100 yards.
When properly used there is nothing wrong with buck shot. There is no more reason to ban buckshot than there is bow hunting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
This is the equivalent of a cannabis vs alcohol topic, it could go on forever. I'm not a drinker but I must be a fool because I use the cannabis . I only buy beer to make my beer batter during the winter to fry my fish.
Now let's keep on the topic of slugs vs buckshot they are both deadly and both equally effective under certain circumstances.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camotrky
Explain why buckshot is not effective when used within its range limit?
I would agree that under the right circumstances buckshot is devastating. I have had it loaded on a few occasions, especially for when I "dog" this one swamp and most shots would be under 20 yards.
That being said the last two deer I shot with a shotgun were with 20 gauge slugs at no more than 15 yards. Buckshot would have done the job but Ionger shots were possible so I was using slugs.
My brother shot a deer last week at 170 yards in a field with a 20 gauge slug. No brainer... if hunting fields use slugs or set up a yardage marker at your maximum buckshot range. Be prepared to watch deer walk away at longer ranges.
I also agree that "banning" buckshot is not the answer. Education on its limitations is a better start. Same way that bow hunters need to educate themselves on the limitations of what they're using.
My point a few posts back was more a question of why limit yourself to buckshot when slugs are good up close or at much longer ranges? My only reason for using buckshot while dogging that swamp is that my H&R slug gun weighs a ton and my light and handy double barrel is good enough for that one specific use.
Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
Single projectile with a broadhead. You know where it goes everytime unless deflected or obstructed. Buckshot is many projectiles which cant be controlled. You cannot guarantee where it goes everytime. Unless your extremely close. In no way shape or form can you compare buckshot to a single projectile. Why would one limit himself to such short distances (30yrds or whatever everyone is saying). Learn to shoot slugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood
After 19 pages you still refuse to see the other side. Buckshot guys conceded that slugs are the way to go when distance and accuracy is called for why can't you do the same to conceded that where short quick shots are called for buckshot is the way to go?Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
Don't deer hunt closest that I can relate to is rabbit hunting.
If I'm hunting snowshoes during a January thaw where I am head shooting sitting rabbits than I'll use my 22. If I'm stomping bushes and shooting running cottontails I'll reach for the shotgun.
If I listen to you than I should still use that 22 when hunting cottontails.
Does that make sense?
But what if your not limiting yourself to that distance? What if that's all you have work with?Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
I'm not going to argue the single projectoty arrow or slug vs buck . Just the different areas and ways to hunt differ in each circumstance. It's all about using the tools you know and work and how they work. I bet a Buck shot will hit a vital at moving deer before a slug for a lot of shooters. Within its limits.
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190 posts...........OMG, let it go....................................
No kidding...I’m sorry I revived this....Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
BIG difference betwečn a rabbit and a deer! Think about it! Earlier this week a yearling doe was spotted around a local river with something no right. Fire dept, police were involved. A friend asked for the deer after it was euthanized. Upon skinning butchering 2 pellets found. 1 in the hind quarters and one in the guts. This is why I can't stand this stuff. Happens way too often!Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
Well I am 110% sure actually not I sur I knopw for a fact you will agree that bows should be banned as much as buckshot
Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
Not exactly sure what your trying to say. Bows and buckshot are completely different! SINGLE PROJECTILE!Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Some people are just unable to see the difference! , and they keep repeating these absolutely stupid statements. :rolleye:Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
Some people are failing to see that it's not the projectiles being used but rather the inability of the shooter to use the tool within it's limitation.
Coming from a guy who doesn't consider a high shoulder shot a kill shot. Lol. All i said was arrows and buckshot are 2 different things you cant compare. For me it's all about a quick clean kill! Why chance it for the animals sake? Is wounding deer ok with you guys around here?? Personally I feel sick to my stomach when I hear or see an unrevovered animal.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
As discussed before the shoulder shot is a poor choice of a shot for someone professing to want to make a 'Quick' kill. You were correct in your first post it's a called an 'Anchour Shot". It's used to immobilize a deer and drop it in it's track. But more often than not requires a second 'kill' shot to finish off the deer or to sit in your stand for a hour after till it bleeds out. .Quote:
Originally Posted by kk1
Purposely wounding a deer like that is considered unethical in some circles yet you keep telling people to use it as the best choice to humanly shot a deer. It's NOT.
Then to insist people NOT use buckshoot and that it should be banned because it wounds deer is disingenuous on your part, especially since you prefer take a shot that purposely wounds a deer.
As has been pointed out to ad nauseam in this thread, Buckshot is more than capable to kill a deer (x9-x12 .30 cal pellets) and does so for many hunters. The deer that get wounded by buckshot are usually shot beyond the effective kill capabilities of it, much like the poor shots taken by bow hunters. It's the irresponsibility of the shooter not the ammunition.
If you don't want to use it fine, but it's ridiculous for Hunters, especially on a hunting forum, to call for a 'ban' on it ...or anything else you don't personally like.
Another good example of :
https://i.imgur.com/ww3Gg1El.jpg