The biggest problem at the camp is that some hunters enjoying trying to control .... the

The biggest problem at the camp is that some hunters enjoying trying to control .... the others ...
that is calling " controlling narcissistic abuse " and when the abused can't take it anymore ...
Then blow up , and fight back .... then they accusing him that he has a problem ...
Also at the camp they don't like confident self-confident person ....
Who can and did hunt by himself .... before ....
Yes he is a trail blazer ....
maybe thats is the other peoples problem ....


But this is going to be a another tread .... now....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alfoldivandor

The biggest problem at the camp is that some hunters enjoying trying to control .... the others ...
that is calling " controlling narcissistic abuse " and when the abused can't take it anymore ...
Then blow up , and fight back .... then they accusing him that he has a problem ...
Also at the camp they don't like confident self-confident person ....
Who can and did hunt by himself .... before ....
Yes he is a trail blazer ....
maybe thats is the other peoples problem ....


But this is going to be a another tread .... now....

---

Good camps don't have that problem. By your post,it sounds like you've run into one of them,already. If you hunt long enough,you're bound to at some point. Good hunters learn and move on........quickly.:moose:

We have had guys in our camp that have been 'issues' and we send them packing the following year. One invite does not mean you have a life membership. A couple of years back we decided to keep it as a small group of good friends rather than open it up to the numbers and have to deal with these issues. We are now targeting good friends that do not hunt and converting them into hunting - win/win.

We are a group of 5 guys that hunt a 300 acre farm and could really use some more feet on the ground but have found that it is just not worth the hassle of dealing with the issues of guys that do not fit in.

We left a camp because of that, started a new one last year, what a difference. You are on your own schedule, hunt when you want, sleep when you want, just help out cleaning up and getting things ready and pay your equal share based on the number of days you hunt, simple.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

We left a camp because of that, started a new one last year, what a difference. You are on your own schedule, hunt when you want, sleep when you want, just help out cleaning up and getting things ready and pay your equal share based on the number of days you hunt, simple.

---

Yes sir! We did the same thing. Smaller like minded group makes a huge difference! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

Yes sir! We did the same thing. Smaller like minded group makes a huge difference! :)

---

One owner helps too, all decisions on the property are moot, knocks some stuff off the list.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alfoldivandor

The biggest problem at the camp is that some hunters enjoying trying to control .... the others ...
that is calling " controlling narcissistic abuse " and when the abused can't take it anymore ...
Then blow up , and fight back .... then they accusing him that he has a problem ...
Also at the camp they don't like confident self-confident person ....
Who can and did hunt by himself .... before ....
Yes he is a trail blazer ....
maybe thats is the other peoples problem ....


But this is going to be a another tread .... now....

---

I have come to the conclusion that hunters are in two groups,serious hunters and vacation hunters.

The serious hunters probably own the camp as they are self starters and end up doing MOST ALL of the work and are truly invested in the land and conservation.

The vacation hunters are the guys who are your buddies for the purpose of hunting their one or two weeks. They are there for the fun of the hunt,are not real interested in working either around the camp and are not invested in the property.They will however make suggestions for improving the camp at the owners cost.LOL

This causes frustration with the owners and resentment because their is a mix/match between the two,the vacation hunters eventually move on to the next camp that will take them in.

Moto of the story is to choose your camp members carefully because they are tricky little beggars,for example they might tell the camp owner they applied for a Doe tag for his area,but behind the owners back,actually applied for another area they intend to hunt later in the season.Use up the camp.s tag,take half the meat and go on to
hunt in another area.They are easy to spot,have the best of gear,ATV,s ,best guns.The camp owners have none of this as they are busy paying for taxes,insurance,road upkeep.

Best solution kick their arses to the curb,enjoy your property you have worked to set up and your success or lack of it is your to own.

Part of it is people just don’t have time to go.

Is it just me, or are the OP and additional posters talking about opposite sides of the coin here? One seems to be saying he is the one who others are trying to control, while other posters seem to be saying that it's o.k. for one person to be in control at the expense of the other? I don't know, maybe there's a language barrier here.
Anyway, I don't hunt as part of a camp, but I think I wouldn't have a problem fitting in. I'm generally easy going when it comes to getting along with others. I don't think I would stick around though if I felt like I was constantly being disrespected, especially if I was trying to be respectful to the others.

We have a simple set of rules to follow.

They respect the landowners, the game to be taken, safety, and all members of the group.

All members including me must also prove their competency with a firearm. They don’t have to be marksmen, just capable of taking 100 yard shots. They know that as they get better, longer watches are available to them.

We also have predator control responsibilities that take priority over the hunt. Coyote walks out it’s done.

It is all explained to new members and they need to not only understand the way we do things but also must agree to abide by it.

First year is probation and part time only - no exceptions. We try them out for fit with the gang. We are serious about putting meat on the table and being punctual and prepared is essential.

There are three core guys in our gang and we own all the stands and sort out the plans for the hunt.

The other fellows have to show up for work weekends and be there for planned activities that help the land owners.

We all know if you don’t show up for those don’t expect to show up for the hunt.

It works well and we all have a good time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rf2

Is it just me, or are the OP and additional posters talking about opposite sides of the coin here? One seems to be saying he is the one who others are trying to control, while other posters seem to be saying that it's o.k. for one person to be in control at the expense of the other? I don't know, maybe there's a language barrier here.
Anyway, I don't hunt as part of a camp, but I think I wouldn't have a problem fitting in. I'm generally easy going when it comes to getting along with others. I don't think I would stick around though if I felt like I was constantly being disrespected, especially if I was trying to be respectful to the others.

---

Yeah I had a hard time understanding the post as well. OP seems unhappy about how the gang is run.

Or is he running the gang and unhappy about a member who shows up and wants to change everything?

No idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Jack

We have a simple set of rules to follow.

They respect the landowners, the game to be taken, safety, and all members of the group.

All members including me must also prove their competency with a firearm. They don’t have to be marksmen, just capable of taking 100 yard shots. They know that as they get better, longer watches are available to them.

We also have predator control responsibilities that take priority over the hunt. Coyote walks out it’s done.

It is all explained to new members and they need to not only understand the way we do things but also must agree to abide by it.

First year is probation and part time only - no exceptions. We try them out for fit with the gang. We are serious about putting meat on the table and being punctual and prepared is essential.

There are three core guys in our gang and we own all the stands and sort out the plans for the hunt.

The other fellows have to show up for work weekends and be there for planned activities that help the land owners.

We all know if you don’t show up for those don’t expect to show up for the hunt.

It works well and we all have a good time.

---

This sounds a lot like our camp owned by my old buddy, if you don't show up for work parties /fun weekend or through the week , you had better have a good excuse .
We all get along fine those that didn't work out were not re invited, and we now just have our regular 8 guys , we go up in the winter to cut split and stock up on firewood, in the early spring we check out and clear trails /look for new places for stands, everyone shares in the work to keep the camp going and we all have keys for it to use any time .
No one smokes, or drinks to extremes, whiskey is always left up there, as is the beer when it won't freeze. Some food, canned goods are always there , when we take something up, any thing we doe not use is left there.
For 34 years that is how it's been and we don't expect any changes to this routine.

I have hunted in groups at camp and I hunt on my own. I prefer to go on my own no group camps. Camps can be fun, but seem to always be one that spoils it for the rest. the one that thinks the should be waited on, not help in cleaning, cooking, just come back to camp put feet up and drink while everyone else is busy. I some times go with the land owner only, that works out best. I bring all the food and clean up as much as possible and then have help when you get a deer.

Never hunted with people like that. I did belong to one group for over 10 years. Everyone knew when to pitch in, there was no camp boss. I guess the camp I( belonged to was full of responsible people. In fact everyone I hang around with whether hunting, camping or anything for that matter we all help each other. Heck my longest best friend of 32 years I just finished helping him install a new heating system.

Maybe I'm lucky everyone who I have camped fishing/hunting with always knew when worked had to be done.

Heck Line052 runs a camp to help mentor new hunters and for others to join. I have been there a couple of times and everyone knows to pitch in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

I have come to the conclusion that hunters are in two groups,serious hunters and vacation hunters.

The serious hunters probably own the camp as they are self starters and end up doing MOST ALL of the work and are truly invested in the land and conservation.

The vacation hunters are the guys who are your buddies for the purpose of hunting their one or two weeks. They are there for the fun of the hunt,are not real interested in working either around the camp and are not invested in the property.They will however make suggestions for improving the camp at the owners cost.LOL

This causes frustration with the owners and resentment because their is a mix/match between the two,the vacation hunters eventually move on to the next camp that will take them in.

Moto of the story is to choose your camp members carefully because they are tricky little beggars,for example they might tell the camp owner they applied for a Doe tag for his area,but behind the owners back,actually applied for another area they intend to hunt later in the season.Use up the camp.s tag,take half the meat and go on to
hunt in another area.They are easy to spot,have the best of gear,ATV,s ,best guns.The camp owners have none of this as they are busy paying for taxes,insurance,road upkeep.

Best solution kick their arses to the curb,enjoy your property you have worked to set up and your success or lack of it is your to own.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

I have come to the conclusion that hunters are in two groups,serious hunters and vacation hunters.

The serious hunters probably own the camp as they are self starters and end up doing MOST ALL of the work and are truly invested in the land and conservation.

The vacation hunters are the guys who are your buddies for the purpose of hunting their one or two weeks. They are there for the fun of the hunt,are not real interested in working either around the camp and are not invested in the property.They will however make suggestions for improving the camp at the owners cost.LOL

This causes frustration with the owners and resentment because their is a mix/match between the two,the vacation hunters eventually move on to the next camp that will take them in.

Moto of the story is to choose your camp members carefully because they are tricky little beggars,for example they might tell the camp owner they applied for a Doe tag for his area,but behind the owners back,actually applied for another area they intend to hunt later in the season.Use up the camp.s tag,take half the meat and go on to
hunt in another area.They are easy to spot,have the best of gear,ATV,s ,best guns.The camp owners have none of this as they are busy paying for taxes,insurance,road upkeep.

Best solution kick their arses to the curb,enjoy your property you have worked to set up and your success or lack of it is your to own.

---

Although I agree with most of this post, it does read that you have an issue with "vacation hunters" I don't know if it was intended that way. For some of us with families and don't necessarily have the vacation time to be able to be gone for weeks at a time, we need to take what we can get. It does not mean all of us don't contribute to camp either.

I find when the owner has a say who is able to come makes a huge difference as well. IF the owner was the one doing the inviting, it is on them as to whether the people are contributing to the camp. Then they have only themselves to blame if someone is not.

W.

It's a personality type. They need to be in charge and have you under their control. They aren't that way just at camp.

IMO, this personality type is also at the forefront raising unreasonable fears about the legalization of marijuana. Even though it's not my intoxicant of choice the hysterics warning about the affects of legal cannabis are not the type I'd want to share a camp with.

I find we get a series of threads like this every year.

My experience has been that everyone shows up for work parties, etc during the year, and "invests". Now...if you can't due to lifes commitments...that does happen. ( little Timmy has that damn hockey tourney that weekend or whatever).....so guess what....you're going to look after more that your share of the cooking, or firewood.

It isn't about "controlling" it's about making sure that everyone comes out with a good experience. Yes, admittedly, I'm a planner, so I get saddled with leadership much of the time, as I take a lot of the guess work out for most of the guys.

I also have been in camps long ago, where there were "vacation hunters". Guys who got one time a year away from the wife and kids. They show up without their rifle sighted in, and more of a lax attitude about getting up to put meat in the freezer. ( They get cut a bit of slack if they show up with a doe tag).

There are also those who treat their time away from the wife and kids as an excuse to behave like a 16 year old with the keys to the liquor cabinet....both those and the "vacation hunters" tend to have their careers at camp measured with a stopwatch....

The trouble that I see, is many "men" live lives where someone else tells them what to do. Be it work, wife, etc. They lead their lives this way because it's easy....and then resent it when they are expected to act responsibly on their own, without being asked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

I find we get a series of threads like this every year.

My experience has been that everyone shows up for work parties, etc during the year, and "invests". Now...if you can't due to lifes commitments...that does happen. ( little Timmy has that damn hockey tourney that weekend or whatever).....so guess what....you're going to look after more that your share of the cooking, or firewood.

It isn't about "controlling" it's about making sure that everyone comes out with a good experience. Yes, admittedly, I'm a planner, so I get saddled with leadership much of the time, as I take a lot of the guess work out for most of the guys.

I also have been in camps long ago, where there were "vacation hunters". Guys who got one time a year away from the wife and kids. They show up without their rifle sighted in, and more of a lax attitude about getting up to put meat in the freezer. ( They get cut a bit of slack if they show up with a doe tag).

There are also those who treat their time away from the wife and kids as an excuse to behave like a 16 year old with the keys to the liquor cabinet....both those and the "vacation hunters" tend to have their careers at camp measured with a stopwatch....

The trouble that I see, is many "men" live lives where someone else tells them what to do. Be it work, wife, etc. They lead their lives this way because it's easy....and then resent it when they are expected to act responsibly on their own, without being asked.

---

Yup that is a good way to put it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Badenoch

It's a personality type. They need to be in charge and have you under their control. They aren't that way just at camp.

---

One thing I think is missed is the fact that many camps hunt on lands that are private with one fellow that has permission.

We are like that - I hold the permission on all lands we hunt so there are rules that reflect the landowners wishes. Break those and you are out. But I will say there will be 8 sets of hands pushing you out the door!

Permission is next to impossible to get in our area. Guys that join highly value this land.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

I find we get a series of threads like this every year.

My experience has been that everyone shows up for work parties, etc during the year, and "invests". Now...if you can't due to lifes commitments...that does happen. ( little Timmy has that damn hockey tourney that weekend or whatever).....so guess what....you're going to look after more that your share of the cooking, or firewood.

It isn't about "controlling" it's about making sure that everyone comes out with a good experience. Yes, admittedly, I'm a planner, so I get saddled with leadership much of the time, as I take a lot of the guess work out for most of the guys.

I also have been in camps long ago, where there were "vacation hunters". Guys who got one time a year away from the wife and kids. They show up without their rifle sighted in, and more of a lax attitude about getting up to put meat in the freezer. ( They get cut a bit of slack if they show up with a doe tag).

There are also those who treat their time away from the wife and kids as an excuse to behave like a 16 year old with the keys to the liquor cabinet....both those and the "vacation hunters" tend to have their careers at camp measured with a stopwatch....

The trouble that I see, is many "men" live lives where someone else tells them what to do. Be it work, wife, etc. They lead their lives this way because it's easy....and then resent it when they are expected to act responsibly on their own, without being asked.

---

You define the vacation hunter as someone that is not ready to go or not part of the hunt, I disagree here 100%.

Hunting is time away, time in the woods, time to enjoy nature and time with friends. When you do not have the chance to eat in the morning because you got out of the bunk house late (too small for everyone to get changed at the same time), no stopping to grab any sort of lunch, forced to leave deer on the ground not even gutted because they need to run the next drive. Being told to setup for a drive and half way through the hike to get there you hear on the radio that they saw a track and you better run to get to the new spot.

This is not enjoyable at all, this is not hunting hard, this is insanity.

This is the BS that I never signed up for and left, it was a family camp too. The guy pushing everyone was the one who never had his gun sighted in, told you that you were an idiot for not using his preferred cartridge (270 Win), not shooting at a deer when you did not feel comfortable killing it (head shot at 50+ yards, only seeing the back end, all vitals behind trees, etc), these are the things that make for a bad camp, this is what a controlling camp boss is and this is not needed or normal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

You define the vacation hunter as someone that is not ready to go or not part of the hunt, I disagree here 100%.

.

---

Fox,

There is a huge gap between what I've described as a "vacation hunter" and expectations placed on them, and what you've described as the expectations of a controlling hunt camp leader places.....

But the bottom line is that if you're not hunting with those who have a similar mindset, and not enjoying your week or two away...then most folks will vote with their feet.

Sometimes its easier to be a solo hunter... lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

Fox,

There is a huge gap between what I've described as a "vacation hunter" and expectations placed on them, and what you've described as the expectations of a controlling hunt camp leader places.....

But the bottom line is that if you're not hunting with those who have a similar mindset, and not enjoying your week or two away...then most folks will vote with their feet.

---

Ya, we did, quite a few did from that particular camp, they still go and brought in others who follow the boss without question, we started a new camp and relax. Guess who has shot more deer?

I'm sorry too hear of all the problems with hunt camp. I don't know when it became so hard to enjoy time hunting "together". Why does it have to be about who does what? When did it become important what you do that doesn't effect the hunt?

Warning to all hunting groups. With the legalization of weed there will be more friendly easy to get along with hunters coming to your camps....:):)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stefan

I'm sorry too hear of all the problems with hunt camp. I don't know when it became so hard to enjoy time hunting "together". Why does it have to be about who does what? When did it become important what you do that doesn't effect the hunt?

---

It always has been. The difference is, people now are more...instant gratification, and less work ethic.

People live their lives in insulated bubbles. Don't want to cook? There's "Skip the Dishes" or "Uber Eats", don't like clean up? There's a dishwasher. Too cold? Turn up the thermostat.....

The general population, by and large is far lazier than it used to be...and it doesn't translate well in an environment without creature comforts.

However having said that... there have always been $h1tpumps who have never done their share of the chores.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by canadaman30

Warning to all hunting groups. With the legalization of weed there will be more friendly easy to get along with hunters coming to your camps....:):)

---

Doritos will become harder to find than deer!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stefan

When did it become important what you do that doesn't effect the hunt?

---

Because there are always dishes to be washed, wood to be brought in, floors to be swept, etc. that doesn't get done on its own. These are daily chores at most camps, so just take some initiative and do it without having to be asked to.

Yes I agree ....

and will see more game .....

And don't have to turn .... back .... for somebody's ...opinion ...

just when... the scenery the area getting promising .... that the game is hiding there....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

Sometimes its easier to be a solo hunter... lol

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

It always has been. The difference is, people now are more...instant gratification, and less work ethic.

People live their lives in insulated bubbles. Don't want to cook? There's "Skip the Dishes" or "Uber Eats", don't like clean up? There's a dishwasher. Too cold? Turn up the thermostat.....

The general population, by and large is far lazier than it used to be...and it doesn't translate well in an environment without creature comforts.

However having said that... there have always been $h1tpumps who have never done their share of the chores.....

---

It always took all sorts, I think that there used to be the idea that you always respected your elders, even if they beat you and ran you into the ground, literally.

Respect is to be earned, people are realizing that and that is causing people to realize that they do not need to deal with the BS anymore and they can leave without being chastised for it.

I know exactly who did nothing at our camp, I also know who skinned an butchered all the deer, I know who cooked every meat and I have to say, it was not the camp boss who yelled at everyone.

Just reading so many of the responses makes me think that there is lots of resentment being held on to. I don’t think it’s worth the stress.
More often than not I choose to hunt alone. The peace and quiet is worth more than the lotto max. I alone decide how much effort needs to go into each hunt and I look after myself just fine. That is not to say I don’t enjoy the company of others. Many friends and family outings are fun. But in the end it’s about the enjoyment of the outdoors. I measure the success of my hunts not by the pounds of meat I harvest but by the time spent afield. Meat on the table is a bonus.

Camps or no camps everyone’s goal is to enjoy themselves. It should not come at a cost of others enjoyment. It sounds like a lot of camps could benefit from some kind of contract or just a basic set of rules. Share the work, share the responsibility and share the experience.

Just my .02

We call our camp and guys that hunt with us our northern family. The best group of ppl in the world. I couldn't say one bad thing about any of them if I tried. We all love every second we get to spend with each other and if we bag a deer that's awesome and we do hunt hard. But it's the time together that makes this time of year the greatest thi possible. Anyone will agree if you don't have what I just described then buddy you aren't hunting properly and missing the true beauty of the sport.

I have camp hunted as long as I can remember...back to when I took time off in primary school. I have run my own camp for 30 years this March. There has been a lot of ups and downs..highs and lows but at the end of the day it's been a great experience and wouldn't change a thing. It use to be mostly family and lots of good hounds..as many as 15 hunters. I miss those days and I dont. Right now I have a small group of 7 still hunters that come when they can and it's working out great for me. The door can open and close when change is needed but things are good. Slow to hire quick to fire. My wife has always been a great help when deciding if someone is asset or just an azz . People are people and not everyone is committed the same way I am but if I don't look forward to seeing you were going to sort it out one way or the other..no regrets.

So the answer to me is the question

The biggest problem at the camp is that some hunters enjoying trying to control

That's reassuring, some of the descriptions sound like kiddy-camp.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by marky.mark

We call our camp and guys that hunt with us our northern family. The best group of ppl in the world. I couldn't say one bad thing about any of them if I tried. We all love every second we get to spend with each other and if we bag a deer that's awesome and we do hunt hard. But it's the time together that makes this time of year the greatest thi possible. Anyone will agree if you don't have what I just described then buddy you aren't hunting properly and missing the true beauty of the sport.

---

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankee

That's reassuring, some of the descriptions sound like kiddy-camp.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

---

Or maybe we're just starting to see the first effects of legalized marijuana LOL Kumbaya baby Kumbaya

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by marky.mark

We call our camp and guys that hunt with us our northern family. The best group of ppl in the world. I couldn't say one bad thing about any of them if I tried. We all love every second we get to spend with each other and if we bag a deer that's awesome and we do hunt hard. But it's the time together that makes this time of year the greatest thi possible. Anyone will agree if you don't have what I just described then buddy you aren't hunting properly and missing the true beauty of the sport.

---

What you describe is the Utopian ideal but not always the case, if you read this thread you would see that there are many cases that do not work out like this.

People need to understand that they are allowed to leave, they need to enjoy the sport if they are to remain in it and if they do not enjoy it then there needs to be a change.

Solo hunting is one thing but sitting around shooting the and playing cards at night, carrying on like you are all brothers is what we all want to see, although this does not happen in a lot of cases.

I generally hunt alone, but wouldn't mind trying something different. The property I hunt is too big for me to effectively cover by myself. I have to say though that after basically hunting alone for almost 20 years, I do get a bit irritated when I bring a friend along and they do stupid stuff like: tell me at 4 a.m. that they can't make it that day; or a total newbie starts giving me advice, telling me that my spot is no good or that he needs better equipment to be more successful (rather than spend more time hunting). For someone that is relatively young, I guess I can be a bit ornery. I don't have a desire to control others, so I don't like it when others mess with me or try to control me. For this reason, I would not enjoy hunting in a camp with an overbearing camp boss.

[QUOTE=Fox;1070685]What you describe is the Utopian ideal but not always the case, if you read this
thread you would see that there are many cases that do not work out like this.


You’re right. It’s definitely Interesting to hear this. I couldnt imagine the groups that have to deal with conditions that are less then optimal. I guess the best advice on my end who from what I’ve seen are one of the privelaged ones is to pick carefully, don’t settle for maybes, make sure that the personality fits the groups overall personality. It’s crucial. We’ve had some guys come and go because they just weren’t a good fit and they made everyone’s level of comfort and peace of mind non existent. We lovE this time of year more than anything and in no way should it be ruined by anyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by marky.mark

You’re right. It’s definitely Interesting to hear this. I couldnt imagine the groups that have to deal with conditions that are less then optimal. I guess the best advice on my end who from what I’ve seen are one of the privelaged ones is to pick carefully, don’t settle for maybes, make sure that the personality fits the groups overall personality. It’s crucial. We’ve had some guys come and go because they just weren’t a good fit and they made everyone’s level of comfort and peace of mind non existent. We lovE this time of year more than anything and in no way should it be ruined by anyone.

---

Just remember what you have, the stories on this thread should prove that to you, sounds like you have a great camp to go to, glad we do now too :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

Just remember what you have, the stories on this thread should prove that to you, sounds like you have a great camp to go to, glad we do now too :D

---

That's great to hear man. Makes everything that much more enjoyable and the memories and stories that much sweeter.

You said well word by word .....

I will start hunting alone again and with very few .....
I set up a group ... not for myself but for others who will not going hunting alone ....
I can go alone as i did before .....
I was just surprised when a new hunter in the group shot a deer and did not track it
and did not excepted the help .... two days latter I found the deer bones .... Also this new hunter pushed
away the old group member from his stand which had a permission to use it when the old hunter is not there ....
The new hunter get offered multiple location .... But did not used the offer .... But we punished him by relocating the stand to new position and fresh bait , 250 m away ...and this way the old member shot a deer and the new member not ....

I found that some people dodn't appreciate when they get something easily ....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rf2

I generally hunt alone, but wouldn't mind trying something different. The property I hunt is too big for me to effectively cover by myself. I have to say though that after basically hunting alone for almost 20 years, I do get a bit irritated when I bring a friend along and they do stupid stuff like: tell me at 4 a.m. that they can't make it that day; or a total newbie starts giving me advice, telling me that my spot is no good or that he needs better equipment to be more successful (rather than spend more time hunting). For someone that is relatively young, I guess I can be a bit ornery. I don't have a desire to control others, so I don't like it when others mess with me or try to control me. For this reason, I would not enjoy hunting in a camp with an overbearing camp boss.

---

Just a sidenote to the hunt camp thing. Until I came to ontario, the idea of a permanent camp was something only Americans did. We called them Guide camps. Yes we had a base camp if the group was big enough, but camp was were you stopped at. You stopped because it was night time, or someone shot game.

A canoe, your gear and maps. You worked you way up a river drainage till you filled your tag, or it was time to go home.

Maybe I was luck and never experienced the camp boss problem, but then again it's easy for people to just make a left up a creek branch well others go right.

We also had a mix of hunters, some guys came out for moose, some just came to shoot a few chickens and fish.
The chicken and fish guys had just as much right to a share of the moose as the moose hunters.

Who do you think fed everybody most of the time.

50 pounds of flour and two jars of jam only goes so far..;)

Way back in my young and foolish days,I was once an invited guest to a Deer camp where the owners were all related and got along like wet tom cats in a sack. Four of us were invited guests at the same time and the main entertainment was taking bets if any of the brothers had teeth left at the end of the week (we actually had to count 'em). It took literally nothing for them to start a fight over the stupidest stuff. It wasn't a pushing and shoving match,either,there were teeth on the floor like someone dumped a box of Chicklets. The food was great,we all tagged out,the accommodations were a bit rough (queen-size bunks stacked 4 high on both sides of the building which was a bi**h if you were on top sleeping on the outside,but,it made for a ring-side seat to watch the action. I hunted in that camp for two seasons and it amazed me that nobody in the owner's family were ever murdered.

Interesting post...……. As the senior of the gang I have [ 6 guys] and the land connections it falls on me to be Captain of the Hunt. Some members are family, some friends. I try to run the camp in a democratic way so as they have input and feel included but should there be a final word it will be mine. They pitch in as their family schedules allow and this gives me a little one on one time with each guy. It was unfortunate that a relative had to be given the boot but it was inevitable and was voted on to do so. Came late , left early, didn't pull his weight, etc.,etc.. I had a buddy drop out because he didn't like the way I ran the gang as he thought he was in charge or didn't like taking orders or both ? His loss. The crew I have now knows; safety first, then fun and if we put meat on the pole we all share equally and that goes for costs too. So far... it works. Top Gun last year shot 3 deer on Opening Day. Thought he was going to get that same tree stand again this year for Opener but I explained that he should let one of the guys that haven't bagged one yet get the chance. He was a bit miffed but thought about those dry years when he didn't pull a trigger and how lucky he was to have bagged 3 in one day and that could not have happened without the newbies tag and the fact they helped build that tree stand.


So.... ? Should one guy call the shots ? A captain is only as good as his crew.... a coach as only as good as his team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by longpointer

So.... ? Should one guy call the shots ? A captain is only as good as his crew.... a coach as only as good as his team.

---

Preach it! That says it all.

Big difference between a 'leader', and a 'boss'. Most people like one, and dislike the other.

You are absolutely right

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

Big difference between a 'leader', and a 'boss'. Most people like one, and dislike the other.

---

Good thinking you are right, have to give a chance to others to ,
That what I did to .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by longpointer

Interesting post...……. As the senior of the gang I have [ 6 guys] and the land connections it falls on me to be Captain of the Hunt. Some members are family, some friends. I try to run the camp in a democratic way so as they have input and feel included but should there be a final word it will be mine. They pitch in as their family schedules allow and this gives me a little one on one time with each guy. It was unfortunate that a relative had to be given the boot but it was inevitable and was voted on to do so. Came late , left early, didn't pull his weight, etc.,etc.. I had a buddy drop out because he didn't like the way I ran the gang as he thought he was in charge or didn't like taking orders or both ? His loss. The crew I have now knows; safety first, then fun and if we put meat on the pole we all share equally and that goes for costs too. So far... it works. Top Gun last year shot 3 deer on Opening Day. Thought he was going to get that same tree stand again this year for Opener but I explained that he should let one of the guys that haven't bagged one yet get the chance. He was a bit miffed but thought about those dry years when he didn't pull a trigger and how lucky he was to have bagged 3 in one day and that could not have happened without the newbies tag and the fact they helped build that tree stand.


So.... ? Should one guy call the shots ? A captain is only as good as his crew.... a coach as only as good as his team.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alfoldivandor

You are absolutely right

---

You must be new. I don't hear that much on this forum, others sites yes, here, not so much. LOL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

You define the vacation hunter as someone that is not ready to go or not part of the hunt, I disagree here 100%.

Hunting is time away, time in the woods, time to enjoy nature and time with friends. When you do not have the chance to eat in the morning because you got out of the bunk house late (too small for everyone to get changed at the same time), no stopping to grab any sort of lunch, forced to leave deer on the ground not even gutted because they need to run the next drive. Being told to setup for a drive and half way through the hike to get there you hear on the radio that they saw a track and you better run to get to the new spot.

This is not enjoyable at all, this is not hunting hard, this is insanity.

This is the BS that I never signed up for and left, it was a family camp too. The guy pushing everyone was the one who never had his gun sighted in, told you that you were an idiot for not using his preferred cartridge (270 Win), not shooting at a deer when you did not feel comfortable killing it (head shot at 50+ yards, only seeing the back end, all vitals behind trees, etc), these are the things that make for a bad camp, this is what a controlling camp boss is and this is not needed or normal.

---

I agree. Driving the bush like dogs and blasting deer as they run past you is NOT hunting. They are probably unethical hunters. I hunt at a camp that is owned by 2 guys. Invite only. When it comes time to hunt we all decide which way we are going and if we all want to walk through the bush looking for moose or deer.meals are shared and everyone cleans up, starts a fire when needed, does their part to Kell the place clean. I don't want to be a part of a group of camp that had regimented rules. We are all out here for one thing...to have fun... strengthen relationships.... enjoy creation and put some meat in the freezer.
I read done of these posts where clearly the camp owner is power tripping and feels the need to bark orders. No thanks, you wil simply get a shot in the mouth. It is good to have someone in some sort of leadership role or no one would every leave the cabin or know what stand they are going to. All I'm saying is treat others as you want to be treated and it will all work out. Good luck on the hunt.

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atoned4.byhim

I agree. Driving the bush like dogs and blasting deer as they run past you is NOT hunting. They are probably unethical hunters.

---

I honestly cant tell if you're being genuine or trying to stir the pot.

Whatever the case is, I encourage you to gain a little more nuanced opinion on the historical context of how some methods of hunting have played out at camps for the last 100 years across the province.

At the end of the day were all hunters and shouldn't be taking such divisive stances on legal and traditional means of hunting, whether that be still hunting, baiting, stands or drives.

:thumbup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

Big difference between a 'leader', and a 'boss'. Most people like one, and dislike the other.

---

The difference is this:

A boss tells you what to do.

A leader makes you want to do it.

The best leaders makes you want to do nothing else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atoned4.byhim

I agree. Driving the bush like dogs and blasting deer as they run past you is NOT hunting. They are probably unethical hunters. I hunt at a camp that is owned by 2 guys. Invite only. When it comes time to hunt we all decide which way we are going and if we all want to walk through the bush looking for moose or deer.meals are shared and everyone cleans up, starts a fire when needed, does their part to Kell the place clean. I don't want to be a part of a group of camp that had regimented rules. We are all out here for one thing...to have fun... strengthen relationships.... enjoy creation and put some meat in the freezer.
I read done of these posts where clearly the camp owner is power tripping and feels the need to bark orders. No thanks, you wil simply get a shot in the mouth. It is good to have someone in some sort of leadership role or no one would every leave the cabin or know what stand they are going to. All I'm saying is treat others as you want to be treated and it will all work out. Good luck on the hunt.

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

---

Hunting with dogs and or drives is not unethical in my mind, there are people who shoot when they do not have a clear or ethical shot but the method of hunting does not define if it is ethical or not.

All legal methods are valid and have their place, jerks are the problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atoned4.byhim

I agree. Driving the bush like dogs and blasting deer as they run past you is NOT hunting. They are probably unethical hunters.

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

---

Well I for one am glad that I have been put in my place as a "NOT Hunter". I might be unethical as well if driving bushes is unethical. Lol, love the guys telling everyone what hunting is and is not.

So driving deer is illegal? Good to know.

Because if it isn't than you are an unethical person for judging people without knowing them.

I suspect you are probably a very unethical hunter.
Just calling a spade a spade.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atoned4.byhim

I agree. Driving the bush like dogs and blasting deer as they run past you is NOT hunting. They are probably unethical hunters. I hunt at a camp that is owned by 2 guys. Invite only. When it comes time to hunt we all decide which way we are going and if we all want to walk through the bush looking for moose or deer.meals are shared and everyone cleans up, starts a fire when needed, does their part to Kell the place clean. I don't want to be a part of a group of camp that had regimented rules. We are all out here for one thing...to have fun... strengthen relationships.... enjoy creation and put some meat in the freezer.
I read done of these posts where clearly the camp owner is power tripping and feels the need to bark orders. No thanks, you wil simply get a shot in the mouth. It is good to have someone in some sort of leadership role or no one would every leave the cabin or know what stand they are going to. All I'm saying is treat others as you want to be treated and it will all work out. Good luck on the hunt.

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

---

driving with dogs is unethical??? good lord

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anfield21

driving with dogs is unethical??? good lord

---

Better take all my rabbit beagles to the vet. Would hate to be caught with Illegal and unethical hunting gear.

Of course it may be unethical to simple kill a kennel of happy health dogs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GuyJR

Well I for one am glad that I have been put in my place as a "NOT Hunter". I might be unethical as well if driving bushes is unethical. Lol, love the guys telling everyone what hunting is and is not.

---

What I mean to say is get on the ground and hunt the deer, stalk. Driving them like Portuguese and croations on 4 wheelers isnt hunting.

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atoned4.byhim

What I mean to say is get on the ground and hunt the deer, stalk. Driving them like Portuguese and croations on 4 wheelers isnt hunting.

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

---

What does it matter how one hunts, so long as it's legal, I don't give a sh+t what others think is ethical or unethical. I guess according to you I must be unethical because I hunt from a stand and not the ground. Hunting with dogs has its place, can bring success, and adds excitement to a hunt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atoned4.byhim

Driving them like Portuguese and croations on 4 wheelers isnt hunting.

---

No doubt the broad brush approved for use by your "Atoner."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atoned4.byhim

What I mean to say is get on the ground and hunt the deer, stalk. Driving them like Portuguese and croations on 4 wheelers isnt hunting.

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

---

I'd have to say that the 10 or so years I spent waiting to even see my first deer driven to me by hounds on a central Ontario deer drive felt a lot more like hunting than shooting.

You're talking large tracts of bush and low deer density. It isn't exactly fish in a barrel.

Eventually I decided that the confusion of large group hunts wasn't exactly my thing. Although there is something you experience in those hunts that you can't get anywhere else. But you wouldn't know about that...

What I find around here lately is people have an awful lot to say about stuff they've never done.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

I'm not even sure what I just read, lots of ery in this thread.

Since we are so off topic....how about those leafs......lol!

Well back in the old days when my Grandfather was raising my mom after the war, he shot deer anyway he could.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atoned4.byhim

What I mean to say is get on the ground and hunt the deer, stalk. Driving them like Portuguese and croations on 4 wheelers isnt hunting.

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Species8472

No doubt the broad brush approved for use by your "Atoner."

---

You beat me to it !

I am neither Portuguese nor Croatian(proper spelling -not croation as you wrote.......... since they are members of a nation,the name deserves a capital C) ... Driving them like Portuguese and croations on 4 wheelers isnt hunting. ......what on Earth Your comment means?
If You happen to met some members of these two lively nations-and if they supposedly did something "wrong"to YOUR liking,it still does not entitle you to paint all of them the same Brush.........just saying,since blaming all members of a nation for a wrongdoing of few is also VERY unethical.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atoned4.byhim

What I mean to say is get on the ground and hunt the deer, stalk. Driving them like Portuguese and croations on 4 wheelers isnt hunting.

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

---

So according to you the only acceptable method of hunting is to still hunt? Is that right? I guess using a feeder is verboten to you too?
Do you even know anything about doing a push? Sometimes you need to move the deer, it's a basic tactic, go figure. There are many different variations. I've never hunted with dogs but there's not much that gets you more revved up than being out on a stand and hearing a neighbouring camps' dogs heading your way. Some dogs move deer slow. Our camp of four guys hunted 500 acres of crown land and our push consisted of two guys slowly working their way around and barking sometimes. Might take up to an hour. Some big camps will push a bush hard with 4 or more guys barking instead of dogs and post guys around the perimeter. I literally see can see the guys posted across the road from me on the farmer's property during the rifle season.
The point being is that there are many traditional styles of hunting that have been done for over a hundred years, for you to come on a hunting forum like this and preach your skewed concept of what deer hunting has to be is a total farce, and that's being nice. Like why are you even here if that's what your contribution to this thread consists of?
As for your your last sentence???? Well you just keep changing feet it seems.

I like to stalk. Hunt edges of corn/soy fields. I've heard too many stories from friends that go on drives about standing in trees and blasting at random when the deer come frantically running past them. Some they kill instantly, some they wing and some they don't even find. That's what leaves a bad taste in my mouth about digging or driving the bush that's all. I guess I'm more of a traditionalist.

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atoned4.byhim

I guess I'm more of a traditionalist.

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

---

I don't usually get involved in these types of discussions, but...
You don't know what you are talking about.
Tradition? What do you know about the hunting traditions in Ontario? I don't hunt with dogs, but even I know that that is a traditional way of hunting deer around here.

This guy's out to lunch. I can't wait to hear our dogs this year. We've got two that will be running on they're own this year for the first time. Judging from last year, they should be god to go:)

Well , Mr. atoned4. by him, you shouldn,t have some one else do the atoning for you.
You should be atoning for the scurrilous claims you posted about the Portuguese and croations [your spelling mistake] , and the traditions that have been passed on for many years that you know nothing about but you are bad mouthing them.:(
You have left a bad taste in our mouths with your high and mighty attitude .:mad:
Make your amends, and go back to where you came from .

Atoned4, every hunting technique can be criticized by those that don't partake in those techniques. Critics of stalking will say, you can easily ruin a fellow hunters hunt by spreading your scent all over their stand location. We can go round and round with claims of unethical behaviors.
Remember, sucessful hunting results in something dying, to which a portion of the population will never agree is ethical. Sucessful hunting is every hunters goal and for the most part, is what all hunters try to do legally under their own ethics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atoned4.byhim

I like to stalk. Hunt edges of corn/soy fields. I've heard too many stories from friends that go on drives about standing in trees and blasting at random when the deer come frantically running past them. Some they kill instantly, some they wing and some they don't even find. That's what leaves a bad taste in my mouth about digging or driving the bush that's all. I guess I'm more of a traditionalist.

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

---

Driving game to other hunters has been a method of hunting since prehistoric times. Not sure how much more traditional you can get.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atoned4.byhim

What I mean to say is get on the ground and hunt the deer, stalk. Driving them like Portuguese and croations on 4 wheelers isnt hunting.

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

---

It appears as though are as xenophobic as you are ignorant. Makes for a great combination...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atoned4.byhim

I like to stalk. Hunt edges of corn/soy fields. I've heard too many stories from friends that go on drives about standing in trees and blasting at random when the deer come frantically running past them. Some they kill instantly, some they wing and some they don't even find. That's what leaves a bad taste in my mouth about digging or driving the bush that's all. I guess I'm more of a traditionalist.

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

---

Go up to the big bush in northern ON and try this. You might never see a deer.

Also, drives have been a thing since the first two cave men decided to hunt together.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blasted_saber

Also, drives have been a thing since the first two cave men decided to hunt together.

---

Yup..the 'Traditionalist' back then used to run them off a cliff ....not sporting but feed the masses :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blasted_saber

Go up to the big bush in northern ON and try this. You might never see a deer.

Also, drives have been a thing since the first two cave men decided to hunt together.

---

I have seen Wolves that know there are people hunting, circle around Caribou and push them. Killer Whales in the Antarctic have worked side by side with whalers back in the hand thrown Harpoon days.
Magpies flying around and sitting in trees above Grouse in the bush. Those Magpies were better then having a Pointer.
It's not just two people.

I apologize to all you guys. I shouldnt have judged your methods or methods of others and their type of hunting.

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atoned4.byhim

I apologize to all you guys. I shouldnt have judged your methods or methods of others and their type of hunting.

---

Well, there is something you don’t see everyday on the internet.

Lol

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blasted_saber

Go up to the big bush in northern ON and try this. You might never see a deer.

Also, drives have been a thing since the first two cave men decided to hunt together.

---

No such thing as "cavemen" or "prehistoric men"

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

You're right, the government now says we them "Caveperson' :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atoned4.byhim

No such thing as "cavemen" or "prehistoric men"

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

---

What ? Didn’t you watch “Quest for Fire” as a kid ?

Hunt camps arent for every one, and by the sounds of it some are downright awful.

I guess I am lucky. A good group of friends and family with no major arguments and we all get a long. If you dont get along, you arent invited back, its that simple. Our accommodations are also terrific, and the food is superb. You get a good (fairly) comfy bed and three hot meals a day.

We have been hunting together for over 35 years at our camp. Only arguments are over last piece of pie.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

We have been hunting together for over 35 years at our camp. Only arguments are over last piece of pie.

---

Yes. Pretty much the same at our place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

We have been hunting together for over 35 years at our camp. Only arguments are over last piece of pie.

---

We never argue about the last piece of pie because in all these years,we've never been able to catch the guy that makes it disappear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

We never argue about the last piece of pie because in all these years,we've never been able to catch the guy that makes it disappear.

---

Its a bugger to get up at 2 a.m. for a leak, only to find the plate empty because some low life beat you by 10 minutes?

But if you had gotten up first and eaten the pie, wouldn't that make you the low life that ate the remainder of the pie?

:moose:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bushmoose

Its a bugger to get up at 2 a.m. for a leak, only to find the plate empty because some low life beat you by 10 minutes?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatwhite

But if you had gotten up first and eaten the pie, wouldn't that make you the low life that ate the remainder of the pie?

:moose:

---

Details,details,details......LOL

Oh... So your probably the midnight snacker.

:moose:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

Details,details,details......LOL

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

We never argue about the last piece of pie because in all these years,we've never been able to catch the guy that makes it disappear.

---

So that would mean it's you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snowwalker

So that would mean it's you.

---

I see nothing,I know nothing...........

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

We never argue about the last piece of pie because in all these years,we've never been able to catch the guy that makes it disappear.

---

Haha! Right!? You turn your head for a second and it’s gone!

Polka-Roo was here??? and I missed him AGAIN???

So true, why can't we all just hunt, Pay our way, do our fair share and get along? lol

We have no real rules other than everyone should know how to help by emptying equipment from trucks and setting up camp and getting firewood.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Glen Murphy

So true, why can't we all just hunt, Pay our way, do our fair share and get along? lol

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatwhite

We have no real rules other than everyone should know how to help by emptying equipment from trucks and setting up camp and getting firewood.

---

We only have two iron clad rules with our gang. Dig in and do your share and don't be a dick.

Well we do actually do have 1 rule new comers have to buy me a 6 pack of the beer. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

We only have two iron clad rules with our gang. Dig in and do your share and don't be a dick.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

We only have two iron clad rules with our gang. Dig in and do your share and don't be a dick.

---

What if a guy's name is Richard?