Attachment 38027
This was commercial, but remember that we do impact the population by hunting.
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Attachment 38027
This was commercial, but remember that we do impact the population by hunting.
I hope so...it's part of the MNRs Wildlife management plan :)
They estimate 400 K deer in Ontario...in 2017 the 'reported' harvest was about 61K... so hunters took out 15% of the population. The I think I read the MNR counts on 20% harvest by hunters annually.
They have also increased numbers of tags in the past to deal with over popualtion....with success !!
Quote:
As deer populations have increased in recent years, the manager’s toolkit to allow for more responsive harvest management has been expanded to allow for additional and longer hunting seasons and for the opportunity for individual hunters to take several deer. Beginning in 2001, additional deer seals were made available in some WMUs (to take one deer/seal), with WMU specific conditions on firearm type, antlered versus antlerless, and location within a WMU. By 2004, limited numbers of hunters could obtain up to six game seals in specified WMUs. In 2005, most agricultural WMUs in southern Ontario offered additional game seals. This tool has expanded provincial deer harvests by over 20% since it became available in 2001.
Just so many people talking about the lack of impact by hunters. They started the antlerless deer draw for a reason, the population was miserable. I remember talking to dad when we were out on a groundhog hunt, we just kicked a doe out of the soybeans. He said that when he was a kid there were tons of groundhogs but no deer, you just never saw them. We would have been out hunting about 1999, he would have been talking about 1972 when he was a young teen.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
The idea that bears and wolves are destroying the moose population but hunters have no impact or that European Hare numbers are down because of disease and that hunters are doing nothing to the numbers is insane.
That is why men like " Theodore Roosevelt " and other conservation minded men started working together and set hunting seasons, game quotas/limits and conservation areas as they could see what was beginning to take place
Hunting has an impact however its the only factor that for one reason or another its is self correcting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Either though regulation or hunters quitting because its not worth the tag/effort.
Weather, Habitat loss and predation are the uncontrollable factors leading too feast or famine for the hunter.
It is not self correcting, you have to change the regulations to change the amount legally allowed to take. There are always those who believe that if they have a doe tag they should take that doe, even if the farm they are on does not have a good enough population for it, the zones are very large and make up a lot of assumptions but it does not mean that the animals are taken from the area of higher population density.Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
Moose are another example, the population keeps dropping but we still issue blanket calve tags.
There has to be a balance between the number of does taken and that of bucks. If you stop shooting does and just shoot bucks, the buck to doe ratio becomes out of balance and there's no competition between bucks as to who will breed and you could wind up with a stunted heard. NY State is a prime example...
if there is a problem with the regulation it can be changed isn't that the definition of self correcting?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Taking an animal off one farm has no effect on the overall population unless its a high fence operation. Nature abhors a vacuum and if the habitat is good will be filled from an area of high density.
The idea that bears and wolves are destroying the moose population but hunters have no impact or that European Hare numbers are down because of disease and that hunters are doing nothing to the numbers is insane.[/QUOTE]
I can't speak for the moose population but as far as jack numbers hunting is not making a dent at all. Fox you have an opinion and that's it, I have been chasing jacks with my dad for 35 years. The number of jack hunters declined long before the jack numbers did. It was not uncommon to see 3-4 crews out in my area every weekend chasing them, nowadays we don't see any. It's not because the population is so low either. Thankfully my dad still has it in him to chase them and I will continue too when he stops, unfortunetly my son won't. I don't know why the population is low but I can tell you this, in 20 years all a jack as to worry about is natural predators and dying of old age.
Tony
Perhaps habitat loss??We used to hunt farmers field edges particularly where there were split rail fences. Those have started to disappear along with the rabbits.Quote:
I don't know why the population is low but I can tell you this, in 20 years all a jack as to worry about is natural predators and dying of old age.
I agree we hunters are pretty good about blaming everyone but ourselves but history shows we are the real culprits in a lot of damage done,think buffalo herdsQuote:
Originally Posted by Fox
killed by the millions,carrier pidgeons,wiped out, caribou herds decimated.
Even the jack rabbit situation compared to 35 years ago has changed so much,most of us can remember seeing jacks all over the place,even along Steeles Avenue in the GTA. I am not saying hunters are the sole cause of jack numbers dropping but they sure did help.Some of the poor attitude came with these hunters from their home countries in Europe,go there today and you will see very little game left.Even the songbirds end up on the barbeque.
So how do you explain the snow goose crisis? With pretty much unrestricted hunting their numbers grow and grow. With your thinking they should of been exterminated by now. Oh wait their wintering habitat is what is supporting their numbers and hunters are hardly making a dent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
So yes hunters have an effect however not nearly the influence habitat makes.
I'll ignore the ethic slur as that's just low brow thinking you got there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
The idea that bears and wolves are destroying the moose population but hunters have no impact or that European Hare numbers are down because of disease and that hunters are doing nothing to the numbers is insane.
I was thinking should i reply should i not- but hey,why not?
We us hunters should ALWAYS respect game,and game population trends,and we all know -"more" or "less"MNR helps us staying in check.
As far as hunters wiping out buffalo herds or the passenger pigeon issue-we also know,this has pretty much nothing to do with SPORT hunting -what WE all DO !
So, why beating ourselves to death by blaming "hunters"-us for something which has nothing to do with us ? Market hunting has been outlawed many years ago.........So why feed antis?
As far as hunters have an impact-i do not challenge this ,but just blaming us, hunters ,for the dismay of the moose,or the caribou or else-is just plain "pushing"an agenda ,or just"cabin"fever setting in.:):):)
As far as the European Hare situation-i am not sure how that comes in the "picture "with the market hunters on the posted picture-especially that we all know by now ,thanks to some posts on this forum,that the European Hare does not matter!!! Because they are non native species,they have been introduced,so that is OK.
My opinion ..........
Hunting being the most heavily regulated activity in North America and Europe,I reject,categorically, any notion that over hunting is at the root of modern wildlife population declines. When was the last time anyone ever saw a $10K fine levied for a criminal offense? Criminal poaching in Africa are having a far more detrimental affect on game populations than any amount of hunting,yet,there's virtually no enforcement agency willing to enforce CITES regulations until AFTER the damage is done. We're all painfully aware of the effects climate change is having on the environment,but,leftist governments seem to think that taxing the crap out of the economy to the point of collapse will,somehow,rectify the situation. Well,maybe they're right if they succeed in bankrupting all the industrial polluters,they'll wind up shutting them down. Well,I guess that's one way to handle the issue.
The definition of self correcting is that it corrects itself, a system where regulations are used and enforced is not self corrected but rather corrected by law.Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
Animals have home ranges, take a look at the map for eastern Ontario. WMU 65 goes from the 401 to the Ottawa river essentially along the 416 highway, this is a zone of approximately 1576855 acres, to think that the population density of this entire zone is the same is ridiculous, if there are too many deer in one area to justify an increase in the antlerless tag allocation means that every single one of those antlerless deer can be taken from an area without that population density, it does not mean that it should be.
I can't speak for the moose population but as far as jack numbers hunting is not making a dent at all. Fox you have an opinion and that's it, I have been chasing jacks with my dad for 35 years. The number of jack hunters declined long before the jack numbers did. It was not uncommon to see 3-4 crews out in my area every weekend chasing them, nowadays we don't see any. It's not because the population is so low either. Thankfully my dad still has it in him to chase them and I will continue too when he stops, unfortunetly my son won't. I don't know why the population is low but I can tell you this, in 20 years all a jack as to worry about is natural predators and dying of old age.Quote:
Originally Posted by gonduckin
Tony[/QUOTE]
The "jacks" do have to worry about hunters, there may not be as many as there were before but there are still hunters hunting them.
The point of my post is to take a step back and recognize that shooting an animal will remove it from the population pool, there is a population from from hunters, it is simple math.
If this has any long term effect on the overall population is another matter, the different areas, the different animals, etc, all have an impact on the sustainable population of the species. European hares have the greatest chance to spring back, the gestation length is very short, the number of litters in a season is significant, the population turn around is possible but being a non-native species the MNRF will not reduce the season or the bag limit on them. Since they are a species that is invasive but does have natural predators (unlike in Australia) they are not going to do the damage that they did in those areas. If hunters wanted to bring those animals back they would stop hunting them on weekends and start hunting their predators, people keep talking about how high the coyote population is but the number of dedicated coyote hunters is going down due to the lack of value in the pelts.
Quote:
The idea that bears and wolves are destroying the moose population but hunters have no impact or that European Hare numbers are down because of disease and that hunters are doing nothing to the numbers is insane.
A European study has confirmed that;Quote:
Originally Posted by gonduckin
Quote:
Despite its currently declining numbers, the European brown hare is still common and one of the most important game species throughout the country. The dynamics of European brown hares seem resilient to even heavy hunting pressure, though local population dynamic data may be needed to ensure sustainable harvest. In Denmark hunting of European brown hares is generally assumed to be without regulating effect. The European brown hare is a typical grass steppe herbivore, and inhabits primarily open landscapes, including cultivated farmland, which is the predominant landform in Denmark. The species is rather sedentary, and has generally small home ranges. This site fidelity makes European brown hares highly susceptible to changes in their surrounding habitats, and the general decline in the European brown hare populations in Europe is mainly being attributed to changes in agriculture practice and land-use .
European brown hares are important prey primarily for mammalian predators. In Northern Europe, the red fox (Vulpes vulpes) is the main predator on European brown hares, and foxes have been reported to influence the dynamics of several European brown hare populations substantially. Also, infectious diseases such as the European brown hare syndrome virus, pseudotuberculosis, pasteurellosis and coccidiosis are present in many European brown hare populations. Haerer et al, however, concluded that diseases were not responsible for the decline of brown hare populations in Switzerland. Similarly, Frölich et al. found that compared to red foxes, infectious diseases seemed to play a minor role in the dynamics of European brown hare populations in Germany.
Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
I can't speak for the moose population but as far as jack numbers hunting is not making a dent at all. Fox you have an opinion and that's it, I have been chasing jacks with my dad for 35 years. The number of jack hunters declined long before the jack numbers did. It was not uncommon to see 3-4 crews out in my area every weekend chasing them, nowadays we don't see any. It's not because the population is so low either. Thankfully my dad still has it in him to chase them and I will continue too when he stops, unfortunetly my son won't. I don't know why the population is low but I can tell you this, in 20 years all a jack as to worry about is natural predators and dying of old age.Quote:
Originally Posted by gonduckin
Tony[/QUOTE]
Is there a study that speaks to the population trend of these hares in Ontario?Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
The trend this year is to speak about the massive declines in the hare population from it's high, hunting in Denmark may not have had a measurable impact on the population but the key thing is that the population is plummeting here and if 1000 hares are removed in a season from a population then there are 1000 less hares to reproduce.
This is the same argument that people make about the moose, well 80% of the calves are killed by predators or the winter anyway so why can hunters not take them. Well, 80% of the population would die naturally, so a population of 10,000 calves, 2000 calves live until the next year. You take that same population of 10,000 calves and kill 10% by hunters you have 9000 going into the winter and 1800 surviving into the next year, it has an impact.
The "jacks" do have to worry about hunters, there may not be as many as there were before but there are still hunters hunting them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
The point of my post is to take a step back and recognize that shooting an animal will remove it from the population pool, there is a population from from hunters, it is simple math.
If this has any long term effect on the overall population is another matter, the different areas, the different animals, etc, all have an impact on the sustainable population of the species. European hares have the greatest chance to spring back, the gestation length is very short, the number of litters in a season is significant, the population turn around is possible but being a non-native species the MNRF will not reduce the season or the bag limit on them. Since they are a species that is invasive but does have natural predators (unlike in Australia) they are not going to do the damage that they did in those areas. If hunters wanted to bring those animals back they would stop hunting them on weekends and start hunting their predators, people keep talking about how high the coyote population is but the number of dedicated coyote hunters is going down due to the lack of value in the pelts.[/QUOTE]
Simple math????
So if I hunt coyotes instead of jacks I should be able to fill a wheelbarrow again in 5 years?
So I'm about done with this thread. for the life of me I don't know why someone would portray hunting in such a negative way on a hunting site.
Instead of moaning about the negative impact hunters may have ( and I speculate it has more too do with ones own lack of success than another's success)
Try celebrating the accomplishments Hunters have made from the reintroduction of turkeys to the countless wetlands put back.
Lets keep this hunting forum a place to celebrate the tradition.
If you must be a negative Nellie keep it to the off topic section as it really has nothing too do with hunting.
Well you seem to pretty thin skinned to be on this forum,talking "ethnic slurs" and other garbage.I am from Europe for a start off and dont really care were you are from becasue that is not the issue.The issue is that we hunters do have an affect on wildlife populations.I have been to Portugal for instance,you will be lucky to see anything to hunt,period.All shot out over the years and yes song birds on the barbeque with beer after.That is a reality there.There are countless instances of over hunting all over the World map.Here in Ontario we have lost most of the Moose population and the deer are in decline in a lot of places.OurQuote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
cotton tail population is down,we no longer have pheasants,jacks are down.As I said before I am not blaming hunters for all of this but we are a big part.Having an overly positive attitude can be more damaging than a realistic negative one.
You have totally missed the point of the post.Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
Recognition if the impact is not a negative thing, it ties to make people think conservation, would that not be a very positive thing?
I for one would love to be able to hunt with my daughter for moose in Ontario, at this point I do not think that will be possible, at least not in a productive way.
My dad and I have discussed the impact of our hunting on the local populations where we hunt (he lives 600km from me), we do not take all the does that we have tags for, he chooses not to shoot any does at all due to the decline in the last 5 years on his home property, it is recognition for what is going on around us.
Consider the impact before going out and doing it, the choice is inevitably yours as long as you stay within the laws but understand what the consequences of your actions are.
Look at how low fish stocks are in areas where limits do not exist, heck, I have witnessed people leaving fishing holes with a 5 gallon pail of pan fish under 4in, this does have an impact on the population.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
You must be living an some type of alternative reality.A simple drive almost anywhere in the Ontario countryside 30 years ago especially this time of year would reveal jack tracks crossing highways and up over the other side of snow banks.You simply do not see this anymore in all those places.There are "pockets" leftQuote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
of jack rabbits where gonduckin and others on here are still finding jacks but the population is way down.Instead of posting a study from a selected study from Denmark,post an Ontario study showing the jack population?
Yeh its pretty amazing how skewed some folks reality is on this subject.A simple read of what forum members are posting for low numbers for Moose and DeerQuote:
Originally Posted by Fox
on this very forum should ring some alarm bells.There are literally dozens and dozens of posts about how bad the deer and moose hunts have become and its all over the map,camps closing because they can no longer get tags to hunt.
Portugal looks pretty good too me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8evai7wfYFY&t=709s
[COLOR=#0066cc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tUDb6yHxek
Those who can do.
those who can't preach
Fishing must be good than. There will always be those who can fill a pail and when they can't move on to richer feeding grounds than there are others who sit there and cry how bad the fishing is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
There's none so blind as those who will not see
I saw deer, sky full of birds and even a sitting Jack
Where.......?Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
This is a stupid thread
In the waste land of PortugalQuote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
here's another one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRpGfzT8eqc&t=26s
Nice countryside for shooting " Birds " "
above by GilroyQuote:
.I have been to Portugal for instance,you will be lucky to see anything to hunt,period.All shot out over the years
Most definitely you will not find anything to hunt in the cities of Portugal, according to my neighbor who was born there and visits every other year, "there is a lot of game in the countryside "
My Barber is also from Portugal [mainland not the Islands] he and I talk regularly about the hunting there as he goes every year , he owns a few hundred acres and claims the hunting is better there than here.
Wow! hunting Partridge, with Hares and [Jacks ] we call them running around, and some that know everything say the country is all shot out .Quote:
[COLOR=#0066cc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tUDb6yHxek
Thanks for posting those links- finsfurfeathers
Oh yes hunting north of Steeles Ave, jack hunting so close to home.....the memories that brings back. It's funny though because nobodies been hunting those areas for 20 years now and still no jacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
No problem thought it was pertinent too show an alternate point of view. Already a bit of back peddling going on. Wouldn't want the sky is falling mentality to catch fire and give ammo and credence to a movement in order to shut it all down.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Come take a walk with me. Can show you deer, turkey, and Woodcock as they migrate through. Tricky buggers and hard to pin them down but I'm sure there is still the odd pheasant around and wouldn't be surprised if there is a jack around too.Quote:
Originally Posted by gonduckin
All my relatives are Portuguese and I have actually been there and seen first hand what is available to hunt.In most of my travels there I saw next to no game animals a complete contrast to Southern Ireland where its not unusual to see eight cottontails in one field and lots of wood pigeons over head.I was in the north of Portugal in Fundao,there are mountains near there,lots of farming,it should hold game but next to nothing.Ask your barber if he enjoys barbecued song birds with his beer,a staple over there.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
BTW there are not that many song birds there.
Posting u tube videos of selected places in Portugal means nothing.The Red Deer in this video had to be reintroduced in parts of the country as they had beenQuote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
previously hunted out in other area,s.The Roe deer have also had to be reintroduced into parts of the country,partly to help in bringing up the native wolf population?
Please do yourself a favor and simply read the results of the deer hunting and moose hunting on this FORUM and you will see how wrong you are,getting worse year after year and over hunting is partly to blame.
No sense in discussing anything with someone that knows it all!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
by the way , " four and twenty blackbirds baked into a pie " didn't that originate in the British Isles ?
Not saying I know it all,big difference between you and me is I went to Portugal and saw first hand what was there,where as you talked to your barber.he,he...Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Q by the way , " four and twenty blackbirds baked into a pie " didn't that originate in the British Isles ?
R.Yes it probably did and it was a simple nursery rhyme.
"We are all pretty familiar with this little nursery rhyme from when we were children, but did you know that they would actually put birds in a pie as a great joke or form of entertainment?"
How in the world did they do this? Well in medieval times the way they made pie crusts was a little different than in present time. The crust was thick, and could be baked first, and would rise forming a pot, hence the term "pot pie." The lid would be removed from the pie, and the birds would then be set inside, the lid put back on, and then this wildly entertaining dish placed before the host of the party.
P.S. As someone who is constantly eating crow on here I though you would appreciate this little bit of history LOL
I'm no expert so look up someone who is to find a modern recipe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI6slOkbvjA
Seems small birds are common fare
I think jcee has now gone off all this eating blackbirds and crow thing now and has exited stage left. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
We all know that you have eaten plenty of it even on this thread,, don't try to make it appear the other way around.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
At least my barber actually goes out and does it every year he, he, he, you most likely saw very little of what was there and again just assumed "this is what it is like all over the countryside "
What you have seen ??? I could say the same about for instance " Luther Marsh " I saw no ducks the day I was there , therefore the place is all shot out .
You have been proven wrong on many , many occasions, but just fail to realize it, because after all "you are Gilroy ". and you see things only one way and that is "your way ".
How many threads have been closed because of you ? and don,t forget you are banned from the OF Topic Forum , yes , you have done it all by yourself.:)
So, why is the honey bee and monarch butterfly population crashing? Over hunted? Dang hunters, control yourselves...lol
I’m my opinion hunting actually helps animal populations. No one cares more for animals then hunters do. When I say hunting I mean regulated hunting not poaching. We are the true conservationist. We are the ones putting money in land and making habitats for animals. No others group has saved and protected more land in the world then hunters. I find the more hunters in an area the more game there will be. Just look south of the border to us.
Yup hunter driven conservation. Just stands to reason a hunter has a vested interest in preserving populations as no animals means no hunting. A lot of the griping I believe comes from the fact that populations are not what they use to be problem is habitat isn't what it used to be either. Watched a show last night The Flush featured bird hunting in Nebraska. 98% of the land in private hands. Seems hunters got together and put systems in place to promote hunting. From hunting funds going to private land owners to put fields back into grassland with an open access for hunting to promoting head cropping of wheat fields to leave ground cover for wildlife. These efforts have increased both bird numbers and hunting access.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishhawk
Seems both programs would be great to adopt here. Cause the two biggest issues are lack of habitat, you just need to look at the amount of ploughed over barren fields left after the harvest ,with land access the other concern.
Around here, I’d say it’s habitat loss. If it looks like a tree....it’s cut down. Hundreds of acres of bush have been torn out. Fence rows are virtually non-existent, ditch banks that were once good cover for game, have been systematically cut down with not enough cover left to hide a mouse.
That's what another European study found:Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Quote:
Lepus europaeus is recognized as an important game species throughout its distribution and as such conservation measures are required to halt declining populations (Flux and Angermann 1990). The recent decline of this species has garnered it protection under the Bern Convention as an Appendix III listing (Vaughan et al. 2003). In Norway, Germany, Austria and Switzerland, population declines have resulted in country-specific Red Listing as "near threatened" or "threatened" (Reichlin et al. 2006).
Research is needed to determine population dynamics specific to habitat type and the effects habitat change has on life history parameters with regard to declines (Smith et al. 2005). There is a lack of understanding as to why hare numbers are low in pastoral landscapes and therefore, research should be conducted within this habitat type with particular emphasis paid to demography and behavioral ecology (Smith et al. 2005). When population declines are the direct result of agricultural intensification, which results in increased application of fertilizer, landscape homogeneity and mechanization, population declines of L. europaeus can be countered by augmenting habitat to boost heterogeneity (Smith et al. 2005).
Nice video. Beautiful hunting cover.Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
The dog work is a bit rough - but I guess its hunting, not a field trial.
The browning autoloader doesn't quite fit my idea of European shotgun.
Agree on the dog work, and it looked liked a golf course bordered the area that they were hunting.
That's what I kind of liked about it. Certainly not pretty but what hunting should be. Unpretentious guys getting out for a hunt. Dispels the myth only the rich can hunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Wrong again:) you never learn do you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
" Yes it probably did and it was a simple nursery rhyme. "
It may be a nursery rhyme , but they actually do eat " Blackbirds in a pie " over there don't they .:)
[QUOTE=Gilroy;1078689]Posting u tube videos of selected places in Portugal means nothing.The Red Deer in this video had to be reintroduced in parts of the country as they had been
previously hunted out in other area,s.The Roe deer have also had to be reintroduced into parts of the country,partly to help in bringing up the native wolf population?
Please do yourself a favor and simply read the results of the deer hunting and moose hunting on this FORUM and you will see how wrong you are,getting worse year after year and over hunting is partly to blame.[/QUOTE]
Gilroy !
Here you are wrong again, check out this link on Red Deer, /en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_deer
On this link you will see the range of the Red Deer includes the Iberian Peninsula which includes Portugal.
The Iberian Peninsula, also known as Iberia, is located in the southwest corner of Europe. The peninsula is principally divided between Spain and Portugal, comprising most of their territory. It also includes Andorra, small areas of France, and the British overseas territory of Gibraltar. With an area of approximately 596,740 square kilometres (230,400 sq mi)), it is the second largest European peninsula, after the Scandinavian.
Description of Red Deer there: Smaller than the common red deer and more greyish in colour.
Have another double helping of Crow ! caw, caw. :)
Yup, the result of cabin fever.Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
I am just glad they were able to shoot that bear that responsible for killing all those deer in the pic!
I swear there are antis on this forum that disguise themselves has hunters. Anyone else ever notice they dont post anything about their own hunts? Just bicker back and forth all year long, threads like this are why I question myself why I even come here.
I've never shot a jack rabbit in my life. Have seen maybe 10 in the 20 years I've hunted. Dont know a single person that hunts them in the three townships I hunt in. I've also only shot maybe 5 foxes in 15+ years of running hounds. They usually get free passes. Last year we shot 25 coyotes, next gang shot 65 and and the big gang got 100+ plus. Why are jack and fox numbers so low but coyotes are in no shortage? Hunting to blame? Give me a break......
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
You can add cottontail, pheasants and now turkeys to the list of game being decimated by coyotes.....Quote:
Originally Posted by SongDog
Exactly! WE used to hunt Groundhogs all day long when we were kids. Now,you're lucky to see one before the Coyotes get 'em.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
well said song dog and rick ilesQuote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
VERMIN !!!...exterminate both of them with prejudice !! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Never heard of such a thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
jaycee,
Sorry you are wrong again,the Red Deer were reintroduced in parts of the country as they had previously been hunted out in others area,s.
So to explain in slowly for you they did indeed have native Red Deer in the Iberian Peninsula that had been hunted out in 'SOME AREA,S' and they had to
reintroduce them into those area,s from native stock.In other words taking Red Deer from one area they had them back to their former range where they had
been hunted out.Simple to understand for most of us.
[QUOTE=SongDog;1078757]I swear there are antis on this forum that disguise themselves has hunters. Anyone else ever notice they dont post anything about their own hunts? Just bicker back and forth all year long, threads like this are why I question myself why I even come here.
R. I think if you check on their previous threads you will be surprised,they do actually post their hunts.
"I've never shot a jack rabbit in my life. Have seen maybe 10 in the 20 years I've hunted. Dont know a single person that hunts them in the three townships I hunt in. I've also only shot maybe 5 foxes in 15+ years of running hounds. They usually get free passes. Last year we shot 25 coyotes, next gang shot 65 and and the big gang got 100+ plus. Why are jack and fox numbers so low but coyotes are in no shortage? Hunting to blame? Give me a break......"
R. Maybe they don,t hunt jacks because there are not many around? Only asking.
I agree that coyote,s have had a terrible affect on our small game populations,but this thread is about "I don,t know why the deer population crashed"
With that in mind predation by bears as a result of an increase in their population because of the spring bear hunt cancellation and coyote numbers are some of the reasons,but I don,t think we can ignore hunters as a factor in this decline.
For the love of all that is sacred Gilroy..Please learn to properly bracket a quote so we can all makes heads or tails about what you posting...
Doing some back peddling here are you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
The fact still remains that this was /is part of their range!
They were never shot out, as you had claimed , thank you for bolstering what I had said.
Absolutely no where in that link, does it say they were shot out as you claim, read it fully again.
You have confirmed it by saying some were taken from one area to their former range.
This is usually done to diversify the gene pool and build up the herd, which is just good game management.
Again you are confirming that they were not shot out, they were always there.
Thank you for seeing it the way it actually is .
More Crow ? do you want it as a snack or a full meal ?
Yes indeed those things were everywhere, now none to be had...Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Quote:
Originally Posted by SongDog
You have hit the nail on the head.
They also nail deer and fawns.
They are like a plague and always hungry.
What's interesting is that between my farm and the neighbours there were NO g'hogs for the first 8-10 yrs I lived here. Then all of a sudden they began to appear and soon populated both farms. I even had them move into the areas around my yard. Had one cheeky bugger even burrow under my hunting shack.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
We've always had yotes here, that's been a constant. So not sure what influenced the ground hogs to move into this area and they don't seem to being kept in check by the yotes either.
Good reason to keep the .22 handy...
Where coyotes are concerned, our group holds no quarter !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
This year, they are all over the place! The highest numbers I’ve seen in years.
Glad to hear it.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
It’s incredible how much one of these critters eats.
All over, that is for sure , but then again,farmers used to have large pasture field where cattle were turned out, also fields were allowed to go fallow for a couple of years but now things have changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
Now we have fields and fields of corn soybeans and other grain crops an more coyotes than we can handle.
Hence -- no groundhogs and lost opportunities at some great short to long distance shooting in tee shirt weather.
It's too bad that the weather has not been cooperating to enable coyote hunters to get out and hunt them.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Did you actually read my post #37,it seems you may have missed it so here it is exactly as written:Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Posting u tube videos of selected places in Portugal means nothing.The Red Deer in this video had to be reintroduced in parts of the country as they had been
previously hunted out in other area,s.The Roe deer have also had to be reintroduced into parts of the country,partly to help in bringing up the native wolf population?
Please do yourself a favor and simply read the results of the deer hunting and moose hunting on this FORUM and you will see how wrong you are,getting worse year after year and over hunting is partly to blame.
If they were not shot out in some area,s of their range WHY did they have to be re introduced?
Are you the type of guy who keeps spinning his wheels on wet snow. LOL
Now please try and keep on topic here and stick to Deer,Red Deer even and stop talking blackbirds baked in pies and all that fairy tale stuff.
Moderators: new forum subsection for the bickering crowd please.
Oh I’m mostly kidding, somewhat entertaining watching you two go at it,
Still back peddling !Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
The fact still remains undisputable, undeniable that Portugal was , and still is their natural range.
They were never shot out, and reintroduction to bolster herds is simply good game management
" Although at one time red deer were rare in parts of Europe, they were never close to extinction. Reintroduction and conservation efforts, such as in the United Kingdom and Portugal,[7] have resulted in an increase of red deer populations, while other areas, such as North Africa, have continued to show a population decline. "
The above from the link I supplied.
Boy oh boy . you certainly have a problem understanding, don't you.
I am not the only one that says this am I!
I, done here with your s&%^$%y !:)
BTW don't forget to take your medication and have a good rest, as you must have been off it for a couple of days!
Not as good as in the old days with the "Welsh & JBen Show".......but they'll do HaHa...Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
Just looking back at this, 8 pages, did not mean to start this sort of thing, just some recognition as to what we do.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Oh well, been 4 pages since I posted.
True enough. I miss JoePa too. That guy didn’t shy away from speaking his mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I,m Trying ! just can't put up with the b.s of his.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Remember some time back when he kept telling me that I didn't know where Havelock Township was , this went on and on, in the end HE was wrong, and this he hates because after all he is the one and only "Gilroy "
What else can I do to entertain myself while my new knee is healing. :D
No mention by me of all deer shot out,was there.I was talking in general terms of the lack of game in Portugal,period. Over hunting by hunters mostly the cause.
In relation to the deer I have tried several times to tell you they were reintroduced into parts of the country where they were "shot out" to replace those animals.
NOBODY every said that Portugal was not part of their range,after all they are native to Portugal.
As far as Havelock is concerned there are two Havelock Townships,one well known by all of us and more obscure one near Algonquin Park.Who really cares.
[QUOTE=MikePal;1078810]Not as good as in the old days with the "Welsh & JBen Show".......but they'll do HaHa...[/QUO
Surprised you would say that after the last shellacking you just got. LOL
Ohh do tell ...HaHa..Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
Can't wait for a hunting season to start so some very bored and argumentative people would concentrate on their "supposed" favourite recreation, if in fact they ever leave their homes.
Every time I log in, same people preaching from their lairs on some totally nonsense topic.
Whoever said let's start a Bickering Forum was right on !!!
Sweet Jesus.
x3 for the bickering forum/thread. Why do moderators allow this nonsense?
I sure hope I have better things to do in my retirement years!
Some people on here need to meet face to face and sort out their difference.
No kidding we need a few more threats on what is the best caliber to shoot a moose...haven't seen one of those for or about a month or so...Haha..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
But nice of you to take the time in your busy schedules to bicker about people bickering....LOL..Quote:
Originally Posted by smokin'stoegie
For a couple of guys who are complaining about content on the forum , I see both of you have only started one thread each....in the past year. These forums only work well when people contribute and participate in the conversations rather than just complaining about what others do with their free time.
If you don't agree with the contend, don't hit the reply button...start a threat, to create a new discussion.
Good one MikeP!Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I'm :Ding all the way!
While both of You MikePal and Jaycee have good points just above ,i think the other 2 guys DeerHunter and Smokin Stogie have good points too...
If we, as a Forum want to keep alive and go strong even in the years to come,we need new members all the time,then freedom of opinion as much as elbow room for new members and for the old members alike.
Indeed one big issue on this forum(maybe other forums as well-but i am only active on this forum)is the constant bickering.Lately political agenda driven bickering and back and forth have died down-thanx God......but we have plenty of other .
Now i am here with almost 600 posts and countless threads-so i hope i can say something;)
No offence, but we need to encourage new members ,not to send them eventually a message which can turn them off from the forum.
After all-neither one of them did not mentioned names of forum members,so they really did not offended anyone "in person".
Just my 2 cents....and i am done with this thread.
X4.....................Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
X5..... this is too much alreadyQuote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
Jeez Sharon you’ve been on this forum as long as I have…you’ve seen it far far worse that it is now. It’s always been the rule..you don’t like it, ignore it and/or ignore those that offend you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
Like a train wreck, some folks like to watch them bicker. As long as they are respectful, don’t break any rules, then let them go at it. The mods have always been good to close it down when it gets to ridiculous.
If you think it’s bad here, at least it low key..…check out the hostility on CGN :)
Hey Sharon been wondering if you've ever been over to the Upland Journal forum. Some good and active discussions especially upland and dog its heavily moderated so clean and informative and not page after page of the same back and forth nonsense. Although American I've seen some familiar names there.
Well said ,if you do not like what we are talking about, move on, nothing for you to concern yourself about. I like to think of it as friendly banter. Most on here treat it as fun, as it should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Good to see the OOD Community has a threat analyst on board! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Thanks for your advise. :thumbup:
Good to see we also have Grammar and Spelling police too :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
Yes Mike,Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
"For the love of all that is sacred Gilroy..Please learn to properly bracket a quote so we can all makes heads or tails about what you posting..."
Your post #63 right on this thread.LOL
[COLOR=#000000]"After all these years Gilroy you still haven't learned how to use the 'Quote' function. It takes away the value of your rebuttals when no one can tell where your text starts or ends"
Your post # 61 on the Bancroft Newspaper thread.
I love the irony; you post a couple of quotes without proper bracketing to point out that I point out you're not bracketing properly. HaHa.
I point this out to you as a favour Gilroy....so that your posts can be more easily comprehended. They are often confusing, difficult to read and your point is often lost because no one can figure out what is plagiarized and what is your text. The fact that you find that offensive is why we all love you so much HaHa...
Thanks for the input Mike, you are the ONLY person on this forum who has had a big issue with my posting,s. I would rather you put me on an ignore feature so that you will not be burdened with all this grammar correction you feel needs to be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal