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Due to habitat destruction or lack of and west nile disease the roughed grouse is going the way of the dodo bird in many areas. very unfortunate.
Geez that's a bleak forecast for a bird I love to hunt. I wonder if there's any natural resistance to West Nile? Is there any way MNR could immunize grouse in some way?
I hear many guys laughing but don't forget the MNR went to great lengths to vaccinate our raccoons in the Niagara area against raccoon rabies using airdropped food pellets. It has been a successful program.
Actually the latest study’s are showing that some grouse are building an immunity to West Nile virus. So there is some hope.
Not too surprised. In any viral outbreak in any species some % of the population gets infected, survives and kicks the disease. The survivors are than the ones that reproduce and the next generation has an even higher survival rate and so on. Population overall is certainly still knocked down but eventually stabilizes. Although when coupled with other factors like predation and habitat destruction they may never recover to the pre-West Nile days.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishhawk
Wouldn't this be more Southern Ontario? I don't think much West nile has shown up in the Far eastern or Northern Ontario as well there is still logging going on. Am I missing something?
I just had a great grouse season down here, seen more birds than on the previous years.
The cycle is definitely up on my hunting grounds. Why, I do not know...
Will be interesting to see what this spring will bring for recruitment.
Numbers where good up too Spring '17
Spring '17 was horrible cold and wet with summer not that much better resulted in few grouse contacts and the ones found were smart old birds
Spring '18 was better nesting conditions and there was a marked resurgence in numbers not as many as pre '17 but better
Hoping this spring will bring on another good hatch and be back to good numbers again
Dogs are looking forward to the fall.
UoG did some studying on WNV, has any info come out from that study?
I find the places that still hold grouse in south they are doing well and I have not noticed any ups or downs in the last ten years that I have seriously hunted them. That being said there range has differently shrunk in southern Ont. I would say the land that they use to be found on in southern Ontario has shrunk at least 60 percent since the 80's.Quote:
I just had a great grouse season down here, seen more birds than on the previous years.
The cycle is definitely up on my hunting grounds. Why, I do not know...
There are definitely West Nile hits in Eastern Ontario. Northern Ontario - not so much. Map at this link shows the hits for 2018 - definite cluster around Ottawa and Gatineau:Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
http://oahpp.maps.arcgis.com/apps/we...fd024830394f94
Certainly not as many as the GTA but it is only a mattter of time if they are getting hits now. The other factor to consider is that just because there are no hits does not mean no disease - it may just mean no samples were collected in a given area.
I've reported this decline on several threads now for the past 4-6 years for the north Victoria and southern ends of Peterborough and Haliburton counties. It's like someone flipped a switch and we went from the usual low to medium numbers of the late 80's, 90's - 2013, to basically almost nothing. There's been nothing gradual about it. Pretty much complete extirpation. The only explanation IMO would either be West Nile or something cool like neonics/endocrine disruption that's killed all our aerial insectivore birds, bees, and allowed white nose to extirpate almost all of our bats. There are so few remaining birds these past 4 years that I don't even attempt to hunt them. Almost zero drumming these past 4 years. No visible broods, and almost zero budding birds once the snow hits the ground. It's a real treat to even see a bird now. I can walk for hours with my Lab and it would be a "good" day if you put up 1-3 birds. Same area 6-10 years ago would have been 12-15 flushes. I used to like walking the trails in December late afternoons once we have some snow cover, and get a few budding birds with the dog. Not even worth taking a gun now. There are no birds.
When it comes to public lands on southern Ontario, many of which are turning into aging tree museums (climax forests), its extremely difficult to convince people (the public) that logging is a good and necessary thing for the forest and the species within it. Government ecologists/biologists know better, but are totally unwilling to "go there". They don't want chainsaws upsetting the Tilley Hat crowd.
I think that study just ended on Dec 31 so it'll be a while before we likely see any data or conclusions published.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jow
The number of ruffled grouse in our WMU # 56 are sure down. I think it is because of so many fisher, coyotes , foxes and coons. A grouse has no way to defend its nest from predators whereas even a turkey can put up some of a fight and there is certainly lots of turkeys.
Smaller ground nesting birds as the Grouse are at a big disadvantage when it comes to the many predators they have to contend with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxx
Coyotes have certainly upped the predation pressures on all small game including grouse, but when it comes to game birds, a predation problem is really a habitat problem. A shortage of optimum habitat that provides escape cover makes grouse vulnerable, especially to flying predators.
I trapped my area for close to 30 years now and I don't think increased predation is the driving factor for this exponential decline. Fisher numbers have actually declined substantially from their initial range expansion population surge in my trapping area . 1995-2005 was the peak from what I could tell. Coyotes are up a tiny bit but then there's some real downturns whenever the numbers rise and sarcoptic mange hits. I think coon numbers are now lower than they were 10 years ago. On a negative note, coon and fisher will receive substantially less trapping pressure since they are essentially worth nothing at fur sale. Hardly worth the effort of setting a trap. Canada Goose down jackets are probably the best thing that ever happened to our deer and turkey. 100% clearance and even half decent prices for our eastern pelts. Coyote is literally the only "dollar animal" now for southern and central Ontario trappers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxx
One of these articles comes out every couple years and grouse populations continue to go up and down. I'm not into the fear mongering. Support conservation and spend time in the woods. It's not that bleak.
How long have they been down?Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxx
Grouse are heavily cyclic, down a year or two means nothing to the overall population, they are a boom and bust creature.
Agree with you ninepointer. My thoughts are that the avian predators are a big part of the problem where there isn't good brood cover for grouse.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninepointer
There was an article in OOD about a year or two ago supporting your theory. Back in the day most predators were shot by farmers/hunters including all the predators you mentioned. It can't be easy being one of the tastiest birds in the bush. It'll be interesting to see what impact the new grouse regs will have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxx