Talking to a sheep Rancher and he says his place and surrounding area is over with Wolves and Coyotes.
Anyone interested in helping out please Email David at.
[email protected]
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Talking to a sheep Rancher and he says his place and surrounding area is over with Wolves and Coyotes.
Anyone interested in helping out please Email David at.
[email protected]
How come I never see postings for:
Farm overrun with geese/ ducks looking for hunters.
Farm overrun with deer looking for hunters.
Farm overrun with turkeys looking for hunters.
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Cause that's what the self interest hunter wants too see.Quote:
Originally Posted by acolic
How bout selflessly helping out the farmer? Who knows one hand does wash the other.
I think you took my Sunday morning post a tad too seriously.
It was a joke.
Let’s all relax and enjoy the spring weather
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I think you took my Sunday morning post a tad too personally.
It was a general comment to all those posts "new hunter looking for land too hunt"
No time too relax springs here and its to run the dogs
Because you don't live in Saskatchewan or Alberta. :joker:Quote:
Originally Posted by acolic
Also when the farmer has a goose/duck, or deer problem. The first person to find about it is likely going to be the hunter shooting pests for him.:thumbup:
Think of it this way.. you are not just out shooting Coyotes, groundhogs, pigeons for the guy, or at least should not only be doing that.
You are building up a data base of game trails, the lay of the land and bedding areas.:thumbup:
Still have shooting ban until 21 April, will be 3 months after surgery. Then Pew, pew
I reached out to the person indicated.
They said they did not need any assistance. their response is as follows:
"Hello
We have no problem with coyotes or wolf , we have guardian dogs .
Thanks
Miriam Stevenson "
So....there's that....
That is his wife. I am guessing he has not talked to his wife yet. David drives for highlight transport, and we were chatting in salt Lake over the weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
I offered to help him find hunters. Now if he has changed his mind, or not explained things to his wife there is not much else you can do.
That's my guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
guess we know who wears the pants in that family
Good for them having "guardian dogs"...Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
Obviously the old man thinks predators are more of a problem than she does.
He was saying that in the past they have not had Coyotes that would bother the sheep. They ate some cats but left the sheep alone. Now there are what he is calling "ROGUES" starting to show up at other farms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Sounds to me like wolves or Coyotes with a heavy dose of wolf genes, are moving in and taking areas from the smaller Coyotes.
I know a large sheep farmer with 5 Great Pyrenees dogs. All fully grown dogs that live out with the sheep year round. We wouldn't dare run hounds around there for fear of his dogs killing ours...
Yet the coyotes are still thick there, he has a deadstock pile.....if you bait them...... they will come
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Sound like David's farm as far as the dogs, but I don't know anything about a pile of deadstock.Quote:
Originally Posted by SongDog
Well if David decides he can get the wife on board.
I'm out that way a fair bit.
Dead stock piles just increase the population, they have more food so they make more babies, it is increasing the carrying capacity, bury the carcasses or have them taken away to get lower the incident of coyotes.Quote:
Originally Posted by SongDog
No kidding. Same with ppl who set up bait piles for coyotes. Most of the time they are just feeding coyotes. Deadstock fees are almost 100$ per head, no wonder some farmers just dump them out back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
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It sure cuts into the thin profit margin, and it just encourages bad practices.Quote:
Originally Posted by SongDog
If David is dumping dead stock in the back forty, all he is doing is paying off the coyotes. The coyotes have a ready supply of dead sheep, so why chase the live ones. Problem comes when the dead stock/baitpile runs out.
Yep, I was talking about that with my dad, his dad used to get paid for dead stock as they would turn it into dog food and use the hide for leather, it got used, now you have to pay for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SongDog
I was sitting turkey hunting one spring, there was an odd smell, could not figure out what it was. As the sun game up and no birds around I decided to move, turned to get my bag which was a couple feet behind me and found out I was about 5ft away from a bloated up beef cow that was dragged out into the bush, at least it was not leaking yet.
IMO,the only food we should be feeding Coyotes is lead (or copper whichever you prefer) at high speed.
Soft lead at relatively slower speed is also effective, 1000fps is enough :DQuote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Still a heck of a lot cheaper then the fines for illegal dumping of deadstock. Manure piles are a big No-NO...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
They have to get caught first, and in most cases of anything( SSS for example) people do when they should not they never think they will.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Makes a moral conflict for hunters. Do you report a dead cow/sheep on a farm where you are only by the grace of the owner, or do you look the other way.
I know guys out west that would buy old horses and dairy cows. Take them up the mountain and shoot them for Grizzly bait. Fred Bear did it on video with a old pack mule.
Not sure it's still legal out west, or if a hunter could buy a live cow/horse and shoot it out in the woods here in Ontario. How much different would that be then cutting up a dead cow and making a meat-cicle for a coyote stand. Probably a subject for a different thread.
So you're asking if it's OK to look the other way and take advantage of something illegal if it's in your best interest as a hunter...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
There are actually a pile of ways you can legally dispose of dead stock on a farm.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/...ock/index.html
Just pointing out the conflict. Not saying to or asking if it's ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
There is also the question, did the farmer dump the animal there or does he know an animal is missing and just has not found and retrieved it yet?
Then as fox has pointed out, is the Farmer maybe Composting the dead stock.
Many not practical and darn hard to be in compliance....once you've tried, you see that $100 the guy wants to come pick up your deadstock...is well worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Example for compost:
Clear snow from the compost site and the area where substrate materials will be temporarily piled. Use a non-swine neighbour's tractor to prevent contamination of other delivery vehicles.
Bring in small square bales, shavings, hay or other substrates and warm solid non-swine manure to the site prior to bringing deadstock or tracking barn contaminants to the site. Bedding pack manure from beef or dairy is best as it will stay warm from breaking down and composting, even in the cold.
Create a 3 m X 3 m (10 ft. X 10 ft.) foot box with square bales.
Lay down a 30 - 60 cm (1 - 2 ft.) deep base layer of substrate (shavings, hay etc.).
Bring unfrozen deadstock to the site. Lay piglet carcasses so they are not touching. Larger animal carcasses should be 30 cm (1 ft.) apart from each other. Keep carcasses at least 20 cm (9 ins.) away from the edge.
Add manure or silage on top of the carcasses to initiate pile heating. If the carcasses are frozen and it's freezing outside, add up to 15 cm (6 ins.) of warm solid manure to get the compost heating.
Put down another 15 cm (6 ins.) layer of substrate, and add more piglet carcasses. Use thicker substrate layers (up to 30 cm (1 ft.)) if carcasses are larger. Continue until the pile is 1.5 - 2 m (4-6 ft.) high and cone-shaped.
Cover the completed pile with an additional 60 cm (2 ft.) of substrate.
One of these piles requires about 6 - 8 cubic meters (8 - 10 cubic yards) of substrate. Generally, using more substrate is better than using less.
As an estimate, use about 1.5 - 2 cubic meters (2-3 cubic yards) of substrate for each 1000 kg (2000 lbs.) of piglet deadstock.
Monitor the compost pile for scavengers. If digging is evident, re-cover dug up spots with substrate. Use large square bales or stack the walls higher to reduce scavenger access.
As an alternative, construct the compost pile inside a heated and ventilated farm building, if only dealing with a small amount of mortalities. Monitor indoor piles regularly for over-heating.
Not likely if you see the above post...Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
We used to have access to a private Quarry...we had guys who used to commute to work call us when they saw road killed deer. We'd go out and pick them up (service to the community :) ) and dump then in the quarry. Then sit up on the ridge and hunt over them for a week or so.
Ya, I wonder who would ever go out and charge a farmer? I have watched bucket loads of pigs bring dumped over and over again at farms, they just have a pile there, it is visible from the main road.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I can agree that for a one off, or a guy with a hobby farm it would be a lot of work. But for a larger for profit operation it's practical to set up and maintain a permanent composting system.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
A dairy farm I know of has a site at the back of the buildings built with concrete blocks and uses waste from the barns for composting.
Just a question about your community service. Is it legal to use wildlife as bait?
Would it also be legal to use a sick animal that you dispatched at the quarry?
Ok two question.
Ya I guess I am hi-jacking my own thread, but it's a closely tied to my OP.
A pile visible from the road is not a good idea. Remember how the public reacts every time they find/see a carcass from legally taken game?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Farmland in SW Ontario, if someone drives by and sees a pig fall from the top of a loader what are they really going to do?Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
I agree that keeping things hidden keeps people from having a problem but these are the people do not believe that chickens or turkeys can fly, that chickens are not those birds that lay eggs, that milk does not come from a cow because it is cold and the stuff coming out of a cow is warm (ya, this is real, happened on my uncles dairy farm), you cannot fix stupid.
These views would be why a landowner/farmer would not want to let people use their property. Farmer/landowner does everything right and legal. Then has to worry that the people "helping" him/her with wildlife management on his/her property, perceive or thinks the farmer/landowner is not following the rules. You call the authorities to investigate. What a waste of time for farmer/landowner. Report the dead cow /sheep on his/her property to the farmer, pretty simple. Without reading all the laws and recommendations it would be hard to determine if a farmer/landowner was doing anything wrong or right. The right to farm covers quite the spectrum. If your mindset is to police the farmer/landowner I would suggest you stick to your own landQuote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Very well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
So in answer to Snowalker's question...you wouldn't turn in the illegal activity..stick with the 'mind you own business' philosophy...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardman
Then to the question I asked; do you as a hunter then 'ethically' still hunt over the illegally dumped carcasses ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Mike it's just the same old thing. Person reads a month( or more old) thread by skimming over the posts and cherry picks something out of context.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
To summarize:
Mikepal: are you asking if hunters should be a party to illegal actions?
Snowwalker: No, pointing out a moral conflict, and farmer may or may not know he has a dead animal.
Hardman: What do you guys think you are the farm NAZI'S?
As you can see Mike his first and only post in the thread is totally out of context to the messages he replied to.
At the farms I know and the few I have helped with on and off over the years. I the Spring, Summer or Fall we bury them, but in the winter they might sit for a while. Until there is more than 1. Cost to have them picked up went from 100 to 300 for the first and 100 for each after that. Since I have some basic understanding of how a dairy farm works and some general ideas of the regulations, I'm never concerned. None of the farmers I know are poaching deer or anything so what they do with their farm animals is not my business, OK sometimes it is when I am still asked to come by and put down a injured cow.
Oh and use 22 solid lead bullets not the hollow points or hyper velocity. With the solid yup one shot the odd time 2 with the hollows way to many.