Seed supplier for wildlife food plots

Finally I have all the required equipment for putting in some deer/turkey food plots but am having a hard time finding a good seed supplier. The local Agrico and Co-ops only have full 25kg bags of seed and I don't feel like paying $200+ for just one type of seed. You can buy small quantities (by the pound) of generic white clover, double cut red clover, and alfalfa at Agrico, but it's not inoculated seed. Looked at Mapleseed's " Nature's Choice" but saw a big red flag when it listed sudan grass as one of the included species in the mix. The stuff will kill my wife's horses so I better pass on it! Rack Stacker doesn't even divulge what's in their mix, even if you go to their website. The price of BioLogic and other commercial mixes is ridiculous.
Does anyone have any leads on a seed supplier that will sell seed in small amounts (up to 4kg) ? I'm in the Peterborough - Lindsay area.
Would like to put in:
Ladino white clover (inoculated seed)
alfalfa (inoculated)
double cut red clover (inoculated)
rape
possibly chickory
some type of turnip or radishes
Thanks
Dave

get to gether with a couple people in you are and split the costs

Our local coop will sell small quantities, that they have in stock. You can purchase packages of innoculant, as well . Mix it all together in a tub or bucket. Usually, I don't think you should inoculate, too long before planting , but could be wrong. I have planted, clovers and timothy, that I have kept in a dry barrel for several years. It grows, not inoculated. Talk to your seed folks , old243

Fenelon, I think that sorgum sudan grass, and some other crops, can be toxic to animals. After a killing frost. After a few days they can then be fed or pastured. Ask an ag rep if you are in doubt. old 243

Speare Seeds.
In Minto
Large bags but a very broad range of products.

What is the purpose of an inoculate in this regard?

From google: Inoculation may be defined as the process of adding effective bacteria to the host plant seed before planting. The purpose of inoculation is to make sure that there is enough of the correct type of bacteria present in the soil so that a successful legume-bacterial symbiosis is established.


Cheers

I did one small 0.12 acre plot so far. Hymned and hawed about killing the sod first with glypho then my environmental conscious won out and I just tilled the crap out of it with the tractor tiller. Shallow tilled it to 2.5" and picked the big rocks. Put down 19-19-19 fert at 250lbs per acre and ran an atv harrow over it. Rolled it once over with the atv and a lawn roller, then seeded it. Did untreated alfalfa at 24lbs per acre, and added 4 lbs white clover and 6lbs double cut red clover. One more light pass with atv harrow and a final roll. Looks good. Will have to see how much of the sod pieces regrow and hopefully I haven't just fertilized a big seed bank of weeds.
Bought a bag of seed oats but later returned it after reading the label. The three antifungals that coat the seed will kill the birds if they eat the seeds. I'd be broadcasting it so I didn't like the idea of the surface seed getting eaten. Returned it and now I have a bag of feed oats instead. For the other stuff, I decided to go with the seed brand from Cabelas. Price was affordable and I liked their selection. I have turnip, rape, and brassica mix on its way. Going to cultivate some more plots and wait a bit to see if not using herbicide to kill the sod worked OK on the first plot. If not, I'll crack out the atv sprayer and kill the new plots first before planting.
How long do you have to wait after a round-up kill before you can till under and plant without fear of killing your new seed. A week or two?

Fenelon,

You need a Scottish tractor to get rid of that nasty sod. Any type of heavy duty tarp or old swimming pool cover put down over the grass with a few rocks holding it in place should suffice. Everything underneath will be killed off and simply run the cultivator over it or hand dig and plant.Make sure you drop a few rocks to hold your cover down,I can supply the rocks free of charge LOL. Works great over the winter but will probably work good now as the grass will rot under the tarp with the humidity and heat trapped.

I tried the environmentally friendly way, due to the insistence of my wife....failure both times. All chopping up the ground did was spreed out the Quack Grass roots and next season they came back two fold.

Next time I hit it hard with concentrated Round Up I got from the farmer next door and mixed it myself. It killed everything...everything !! Left me with a barren landscape to work with, perfect. !!

They say all that Round up needs is about 3 hrs on the green leaves to work itself down into the roots. The leaf on the plant takes a while to look dead, but once it's in the roots it will kill the plant.

The problem now is getting Round-Up retail that is strong enough to do the job. That watered down crap they sell at Canadian Tire is very weak...not to mention very expensive to buy when you have to do a big area.

Maybe talk to someone that does weed control and see if they can help you. They have licenses that allow them to buy stronger stuff that isn't commercially available.

If you want roundup or mouse blocks etc, that are restricted . Talk to a local farmer , with a spray licence. If you use it according to mixing instructions , for your own use, I don't see a problem, some of our restrictions , benefit big pharmo companies. JMHO.
Fenelon, you can control your grasses, by using your lawnmower. After your clovers , get a good start , trim the grass, stay high enough that you are not hitting the clovers. It will keep the grasses from coming in head, and the clovers will flourish and fill in. Repeat often , or as you think necessary. You can always broadcast more clovers in the fall , if you don't get a good catch, they will frost seed, over next winter. I have frost seeded pastures, with good results. A bit of trefoil added into your mix is also good, it will remain a long time once you get it started and reseed itself. Good luck old243

If you are using the till method to remove weeds/grasses before planting. I would suggest plowing first, early fall is best if want a spring plant. Then disc in spring once dry enough. Let existing seeds and roots sprout approx week or 2, rework/till to kill new emergence. You can repeat tilling again once sprouted again. Cultivating will pull roots of grasses to the surface to be exposed to the sun and may be necessary. Usually I work a new plot for a summer, which will kill all weeds grasses and seeds.Plant in the fall/early Sept with wheat cultivated in to 1.5 " -2". White clover broadcast on top, then rolled for seed contact to soil. This will provide a weed free plot. Mowing is required to keep clover weed free and healthy for a couple years. Or rework a year latter and plant what ever you want. As far as spraying general rules are, spray wait 2 weeks till and plant. Or spray wait 2 weeks till then wait 1-2 weeks spray then plant after at least 3 days depending on the seed to be planted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I tried the environmentally friendly way, due to the insistence of my wife....failure both times. All chopping up the ground did was spreed out the Quack Grass roots and next season they came back two fold.

Next time I hit it hard with concentrated Round Up I got from the farmer next door and mixed it myself. It killed everything...everything !! Left me with a barren landscape to work with, perfect. !!

They say all that Round up needs is about 3 hrs on the green leaves to work itself down into the roots. The leaf on the plant takes a while to look dead, but once it's in the roots it will kill the plant.

The problem now is getting Round-Up retail that is strong enough to do the job. That watered down crap they sell at Canadian Tire is very weak...not to mention very expensive to buy when you have to do a big area.

Maybe talk to someone that does weed control and see if they can help you. They have licenses that allow them to buy stronger stuff that isn't commercially available.

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I would suggest if you want to use the spray method, follow the rules/laws and go get your license and conform to regulations. Or hire some one who is licensed and have them apply herbicides in accordance with the law.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I tried the environmentally friendly way, due to the insistence of my wife....failure both times. All chopping up the ground did was spreed out the Quack Grass roots and next season they came back two fold.

Next time I hit it hard with concentrated Round Up I got from the farmer next door and mixed it myself. It killed everything...everything !! Left me with a barren landscape to work with, perfect. !!

They say all that Round up needs is about 3 hrs on the green leaves to work itself down into the roots. The leaf on the plant takes a while to look dead, but once it's in the roots it will kill the plant.

The problem now is getting Round-Up retail that is strong enough to do the job. That watered down crap they sell at Canadian Tire is very weak...not to mention very expensive to buy when you have to do a big area.

Maybe talk to someone that does weed control and see if they can help you. They have licenses that allow them to buy stronger stuff that isn't commercially available.

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If you keep planting on the worked ground year after year the grass will not be able to flourish,if on the other hand you give it a break even for a short time it will come back.My food plots and vegetable garden are surrounded by Quack grass and were quack grass before working them over,the secret it to simply
tilling the soil in the spring and planting on that worked ground.The chopped up grass will lay dormant under the soil and want to come back but should be shaded out by what you plant after a couple of years that chopped up grass is composted down in the soil and is gone.Same process for farmers tilling the soil each spring,in the OLDE days they did not have to put tons of weed killer down,why is it so badly needed now?The answer is convenience but its a false economy as the weed killer,s also kill off beneficial microbes and insects that benefit the soil,that is why organic is making such a big come back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I tried the environmentally friendly way, due to the insistence of my wife....failure both times. All chopping up the ground did was spreed out the Quack Grass roots and next season they came back two fold.

Next time I hit it hard with concentrated Round Up I got from the farmer next door and mixed it myself. It killed everything...everything !! Left me with a barren landscape to work with, perfect. !!

They say all that Round up needs is about 3 hrs on the green leaves to work itself down into the roots. The leaf on the plant takes a while to look dead, but once it's in the roots it will kill the plant.

The problem now is getting Round-Up retail that is strong enough to do the job. That watered down crap they sell at Canadian Tire is very weak...not to mention very expensive to buy when you have to do a big area.

Maybe talk to someone that does weed control and see if they can help you. They have licenses that allow them to buy stronger stuff that isn't commercially available.

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Sorry Mike but Ontario regs are a PITA for Round Up.
I'm lucky that I can drive to Winnipeg and buy any amount of Round Up Super Concentrate that I need. No questions asked.

An "organic" method of weed control is smother cropping.
You plant a fast growing broad spreading crop.
It blocks light from growing weeds and suppresses them enough that the hopefully wont reproduce.
Buckwheat planted 2-3 times more densely that recommended works well.
So does a dense planting of Forage Radish. Do crop #1 in the spring. Cut and till mid summer. Repeat seeding for crop #2 late summer.

Thanks guys for all the great tips. Re: plowing first - this was going to be my first choice (turn the sod over and disk) until I started checking with a soil auger and was lucky to find 4" of good topsoil. I'm on that crap Otonabee class soil that's glacial till mixed with limestone and clay. We have huge rock piles where the poor Irish would have picked rocks till they died. No wonder they had 18 kids and drank heavily. You'd need that many hands just to clear the bloody rocks to be able to work a plow. Some sections are almost alvar, with prairie smoke on the property. I was worried I'd be pulling up the subsoil even if I set the plow at shallow setting. Sold my wood chipper and bought a Woods 72" tractor tiller. You can set this thing as shallow as 1" so it doesn't dig too deep. I have my forestry class licence so buying pure Weathermax glypho is no problem. The "high grade" ag strength stuff is about $100 for 10L. I use it with an atv sprayer to control dog-strangling vine, nodding thistle, and buckthorn. I think I'll "kill" my next plots before I plant. I'll spray, wait 2 weeks, then till the piss out of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

I think I'll "kill" my next plots before I plant. I'll spray, wait 2 weeks, then till the piss out of it.

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the farm next to me was long ago owned by a Scotsman...rock fence lines and good sized piles everywhere. You're right no wonder they had lots of kids !!

Sounds like you have a sound plan...use the glypho and get rid of the problem stuff now before it goes to seed.

I used one of those plot mules (disc) and set it for 2" after it was killed back and that gave me enough loose soil to make sure I had good seed soil contact. I seeded heavy with clover the first year...it's still there.

Tip: I used to plant two lines of turnip late summer to ensure that there was food after the first frost. Used to have deer still on the plot late in Dec...perfect for ML season.

Good luck....

An outfitter buddy of mine has access to around 500 acres of private land that he has a camp on. The owner got Lyme disease many years back so he wants the deer population controlled. Anyway Dave has done up many food plots over the years and he always starts with glyphosate. The one thing that stuck with me was him telling me that waiting an extra 2 weeks after the vegetation had died was critical as that way he was sure that the roots were all dead and mushy as well. Otherwise chopping up the still viable firm roots resulted in tons of new growth. Something to keep in mind.

Cheers