20 gauge same as 12 gauge?

A long time hunting buddy of mine, Ian did some testing a while back on the effectiveness of a 20 gauge versus a 12 gauge for turkey hunting. He did a bunch of pattern tests with the guns from 20 yards out to 40 yards. I just thought some people might enjoy this. It starts about a third of the way into the video.
None of it surprised me at all as I've always been a proponent of smaller, lighter loads myself anyway. I just I like my shoulder to stay right where it is. Haha.
After all, wild turkeys were made extinct here in Ontario years ago with the 2 1/2" shell.
Just say'n.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=632Z...F5&index=6

I like chasing my hat, when my 3.5 Longbeard XRs are touched off !!!! Lol

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

I like chasing my hat, when my 3.5 Longbeard XRs are touched off !!!! Lol

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Hahahaha!

Watched the vid, I wouldn't consider either gun at 40yds a definite kill. I agree a 20 out to 30 yds with the proper choke out to 40 yds. I think a 12 with the proper choke can get much better hits on a target than they showed at 40yds out to 60yds. I have shot my 12 out to 60yds and have way more hits in the kill zone then they showed at 40. I have even tried at 70 and have more hits, but I don't consider that a good kill shot. I will stick with my 3" LB #6 with the proper choke.

All my Turkey kills (more than 20) were with 2 3/4 inch shells from a 12 ga. Furthest out was probably 35 yds. Only advantage I found with 3 inch magnums was hunting Geese with BBB. Saved my 20 for Grouse and Rabbits......................Daniel

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Originally Posted by sabmgb

Watched the vid, I wouldn't consider either gun at 40yds a definite kill. I agree a 20 out to 30 yds with the proper choke out to 40 yds. I think a 12 with the proper choke can get much better hits on a target than they showed at 40yds out to 60yds. I have shot my 12 out to 60yds and have way more hits in the kill zone then they showed at 40. I have even tried at 70 and have more hits, but I don't consider that a good kill shot. I will stick with my 3" LB #6 with the proper choke.

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So you feel that #6 shot at 70 yards have enough energy to kill a turkey?

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Originally Posted by Fox

So you feel that #6 shot at 70 yards have enough energy to kill a turkey?

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I’ve read that post 3 times and don’t see where sabmgb has said that at all !!

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

I’ve read that post 3 times and don’t see where sabmgb has said that at all !!

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I did read that he said he does not consider that a good kill shot. I do question though the chokes and wads that give people a much better pattern but neglect to consider the energy per pellet just to punch into the skull at that distance. I can see a neck shot not needing a lot but #6 does not hold a lot of energy when you move down range.

My last turkey was shot with a 16ga double, the full choke barrel and 1 1/8oz of #6 shot, it was a 20 yard shot. A 60-70 yard shot would feel really weird to me, but I cannot say how much penetration a pellet has at that range.

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Originally Posted by boogaloo

All my Turkey kills (more than 20) were with 2 3/4 inch shells from a 12 ga. Furthest out was probably 35 yds. Only advantage I found with 3 inch magnums was hunting Geese with BBB. Saved my 20 for Grouse and Rabbits......................Daniel

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Yeah, I'm the same here. If they're gonna come in, their gonna come in. If I'm in the woods then many times I'll have the decoys 5 to 10 yards out in front of me. I think the furthest I've ever shot a bird is around 18 yards and that was with my bow. If they don't wanna commit then there's always another day and many times there's a good reason and a lesson to have learned of why I've blown the hunt somehow. To me the rush is having them right on top of me.

Thanks Rick, I would not take a 70yd shot, I have at a target and that was enough to say too far. I do know guys that say they are comfortable with that, but not me. And I'd be pretty stupid if I didn't think of penetration when shooting a turkey or any animal. I let them come in if they are coming, but I will take them at 30yds, my personal preference.

I don't think either of his guns shot well at 40 yards sorry. I think under 25 yards any shotgun regardless if its a 12 gauge or 20 gauge will put down a turkey. What matters more in my eyes other then pattern is penetration at longer ranges. I would love to see a ballistic test done at 40 yards with those same guns and see if theres a difference. This year was the first year that I shot a turkey at a longer range. I never had to shoot a turkey more then 40 yards before. I did practice a lot but i always wondered how effective it would be on a live target above 40 yards. I did harvest that turkey lucky or not, but would I have with a 20 gauge? I don't know, not saying that it cant I just don't have any experience with the 20 gauges.

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kavanagh

To me the rush is having them right on top of me.

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My Turkey guns are; a) the 16 ga with Kent Ultimate load...great for a sure kill under 30 yds. The 16 ga is becoming a popular turkey gun in many circles.

But my preferred Turkey gun B) ; for the past 10 yrs or so is my 12 ga Black Powder shot gun. I've worked up load with #5 shot that gives me a tight pattern out to 30yds ...but I rarely have to shot beyond 20. In fact, a couple of years I had to wait till they moved away from my blind, I wanted them farther away to ensue I had a sufficient pattern to ensure a good hit HaHa...

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Originally Posted by MikePal

My Turkey guns are; a) the 16 ga with Kent Ultimate load...great for a sure kill under 30 yds. The 16 ga is becoming a popular turkey gun in many circles.


Too close is not good either lol I had one so close one time I felt what he was thinking LOL

But my preferred Turkey gun B) ; for the past 10 yrs or so is my 12 ga Black Powder shot gun. I've worked up load with #5 shot that gives me a tight pattern out to 30yds ...but I rarely have to shot beyond 20. In fact, a couple of years I had to wait till they moved away from my blind, I wanted them farther away to ensue I had a sufficient pattern to ensure a good hit HaHa...

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Too close is not good either, I had one so close one time I felt what he was thinking LOL Then when he stepped further out I know what he was thinking and that was oh sh!!!t

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Originally Posted by tom gobble

Too close is not good either, I had one so close one time I felt what he was thinking LOL Then when he stepped further out I know what he was thinking and that was oh sh!!!t

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I’ve missed a couple birds that were too close !

Killing penetration at extended distances is an issue but I don't see how the gauge factors into that. Speed and weight don't know gauge.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

I like chasing my hat, when my 3.5 Longbeard XRs are touched off !!!! Lol

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I warm up with these then switch to Fed Mag turkey loads with 2-1/4 oz shot. Ouch haha. Tripple Beard is up there also.
I did my own testing with my daughter 20 with 2 different choke, it didn’t take long to park it. She can handle the 3 “ 12 gauge. We travel 14 hours (return) to Turkey hunt, we like to put all odds in our favour. I shot them from 20 to 47 yard which was my furthest. I don’t think I would go past that.
Love turkey hunting.

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Originally Posted by kickingfrog

Killing penetration at extended distances is an issue but I don't see how the gauge factors into that. Speed and weight don't know gauge.

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Yep, a 410 has the same energy as a 10ga per pellet given identical weight, the key is putting those pellets on target.

There are guys now using 410s with #9 heavier than lead shot for turkeys in the states, tight and hard hitting patterns at the same ranges as normal 12ga hunting.

With the proper gun/choke/load combo, 55+ yards is doable and ethical.

With my Derya MK12, Patternmaster and Longbeard 3" #6s, I'm more than happy to shoot out to 60 -- as a matter of fact, my wife shot a hung up bird at 62 yards this past Spring with my setup.

With all that said, 95% of my birds are shot at less than 20 yards. It's just nice to know you can take that poke if need be.



-Nick

I like them in close enough you can smell them. LoL ! Ideally 20 yards but have taken birds further out. Last bird was 35 yards. I put out sticks to mark my outer range as my decoys will be approx. 15 yards out. Btw; I shoot a 12 gauge 11-87 with a rifle sight barrel and Undertaker choke and found Kent shells to actually pattern better than my old Longbeards both are 3 inch #5's.

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Originally Posted by longpointer

I like them in close enough you can smell them. LoL ! Ideally 20 yards but have taken birds further out. Last bird was 35 yards. I put out sticks to mark my outer range as my decoys will be approx. 15 yards out. Btw; I shoot a 12 gauge 11-87 with a rifle sight barrel and Undertaker choke and found Kent shells to actually pattern better than my old Longbeards both are 3 inch #5's.

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At 15 yards you are overkill with your load :D, if you like them in tight try testing out some #6 game loads with that tight choke, it is amazing how well they can pattern.

The old Win 1897 with a factory full choke will walk a pop can down the pit out to about 75 yards with #6 1 1/8oz of shot.

The last turkey I got was a 20lb Tom with a 16ga 1 1/8oz load of #6 at about 20 yards, maybe a hair closer, was the barrel marked full choke but measures out to an extra full.

Fox ; You are right about overkill at 15 yards, that would take his head clean off but most birds are out further in the field as I'm usually tucked in the scrub at the edge of it . I have some pre-set spots to shoot from but one must be adaptable because every hunt is different, As for 20 or 12 gauge ? It's the shooters choice what he/she feels comfortable with in my opinion. Practice ,practice , practice ! If you shoot from a pop up blind … practice shooting from it . If you sit on the ground against a tree... practice the same way. Of course put out targets at various distances and angles to simulate a hunt.

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Originally Posted by longpointer

Fox ; You are right about overkill at 15 yards, that would take his head clean off but most birds are out further in the field as I'm usually tucked in the scrub at the edge of it . I have some pre-set spots to shoot from but one must be adaptable because every hunt is different, As for 20 or 12 gauge ? It's the shooters choice what he/she feels comfortable with in my opinion. Practice ,practice , practice ! If you shoot from a pop up blind … practice shooting from it . If you sit on the ground against a tree... practice the same way. Of course put out targets at various distances and angles to simulate a hunt.

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Yep, if you put the pellets in the right spot it does not matter the size of the shotgun. A 1/2oz load of #6 from a 410 will kill a turkey as dead as a 10ga 3 1/2" load, but the effective range is not there. 20ga vs 12ga, some will pattern the 20ga to the same effective range as the 12ga, some will not.

I always laugh when people say you need the larger bore or the longer hull because pellets from the smaller gauge will bounce off, ha ha ha ha, the physics of the pellet does not change, just the number of them.

Ya, 15 yards overkill, if your hunting spot only allows for 15 yards of shooting then there is no reason for a 50 yard effective range, heck, I almost missed a jake at 10 yards with an extra full choked 3 1/2" 12ga load, was a very tight pattern and the bird moved while I was shooting, clipped the back of its neck rather than a centered shot.

I'd say half of my 30+ birds have been taken with a 20 ga. 870 3 inch Winchester #6 out of a primos jellyhead choke. I did have issues finding a load that patterned good. My longest turkey kill was 40 yards with this gun and I misjudged the distance, thought it was closer. Its a great advantage in my opinion to carry the 20. Where I hunt its nothing to put 5 km on the boots in a single turkey hunt trying to locate birds. The gun is smaller, it carries lighter which makes a difference in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by toddy

I'd say half of my 30+ birds have been taken with a 20 ga. 870 3 inch Winchester #6 out of a primos jellyhead choke. I did have issues finding a load that patterned good. My longest turkey kill was 40 yards with this gun and I misjudged the distance, thought it was closer. Its a great advantage in my opinion to carry the 20. Where I hunt its nothing to put 5 km on the boots in a single turkey hunt trying to locate birds. The gun is smaller, it carries lighter which makes a difference in my opinion.

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Same set-up here!

I also have a red-dot on my 20guage. Put that red dot on the sweet spot and it's winner-winner Turkey dinner! :)

Interesting discussion but with the new TSS shot it changes things as far as shot size versus effective range. Look up kenetic energy formula for the answers. For us in Ontario it doesn't matter as we have a minimum #7 shot size restriction. TC

Little bit off topic but with 20 gauge slug guns becoming very popular has anyone used one of the Savage bolt action turkey shotgun? And if so what were your thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Fox

Yep, if you put the pellets in the right spot it does not matter the size of the shotgun. A 1/2oz load of #6 from a 410 will kill a turkey as dead as a 10ga 3 1/2" load, but the effective range is not there. 20ga vs 12ga, some will pattern the 20ga to the same effective range as the 12ga, some will not.

I always laugh when people say you need the larger bore or the longer hull because pellets from the smaller gauge will bounce off, ha ha ha ha, the physics of the pellet does not change, just the number of them.

Ya, 15 yards overkill, if your hunting spot only allows for 15 yards of shooting then there is no reason for a 50 yard effective range, heck, I almost missed a jake at 10 yards with an extra full choked 3 1/2" 12ga load, was a very tight pattern and the bird moved while I was shooting, clipped the back of its neck rather than a centered shot.

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No such thing as "overkill" with a turkey load. Dead is dead as long as your shooting them in the head.
Know what you gun does at longer distances, just in case you need to go long and have been to the range to be confident at that distance

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Originally Posted by smokin'stoegie

No such thing as "overkill" with a turkey load. Dead is dead as long as your shooting them in the head.
Know what you gun does at longer distances, just in case you need to go long and have been to the range to be confident at that distance

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Or you can put yourself into a position so that you have to have them in close enough for a shot.

Last turkey was shot with a 16ga 1 1/8oz of #6 shot, an upland load. I plan on getting on with a 1920s Win 1897 if I bother turkey hunting again in the future.

If overkill was not a thing then 10ga would be more popular, the thing is, that is not the case. 20ga is becoming more popular and in some states the lowly 410 with #7 TSS shot is being used for turkeys, you just have to have enough pellets, you don't need 500 pellets to the brain to kill a turkey.