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Texas gun laws: Weapons will be allowed in churches and on school grounds (CNN).
It will be interesting to see how this plays out: A common sense approach to deterring mass shootings OR allowing more of the genie out of the lamp to reek further havoc. However, I’m thinking it would be a something of a costly mistake in Texas, to pull out a firearm in a public place, without having a very good reason.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
-Gun Nut
It's a different world there, and it's difficult to compare our societies.
The cat's already out of the bag there and creating "gun-free" zones and putting up "gun-free" signs acts like a bullseye for all the sickos out there. I'm of the mindset that you don't have to be afraid of a good guy with a gun. You never see these shootings happen in inner-city schools. Why? Because the inner city schools have metal detectors and security guards in the schools.
A “good guy” brandishing a gun during a shooting incident runs a very high risk of being shot by first responders. Bad guys and good guys all look the same to police when they first arrive. They don’t have the luxury of time taken to sort things out.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Kavanagh
When everyone is packing, then everyone is a potential bad guy. Gun fights over parking spaces !
I don’t think there are any or very many examples of active shooters being stopped by lawful gun owners even with so many mass shootings. It’s almost always a first responder or off duty first responder trained to respond to these incidents who kills the guy or causes the shooter to kill himself. More guns is just going to complicate the mess they are in IMO.
Less than 5% of the population will instinctively run 'into' danger...armed or not. They test that when recruiting first responders.
From what I have seen on CCTV videos those that pull their gun and shoot are largely ineffectual.
Unless an armed person has training in CQB,99% of CCW people,in a panic situation,couldn't hit a cow in the arse with snow shovel. They blaze away hitting everything except the target like a bunch of Toronto gangbangers.
Well, setting up gun free zones and having everyone disarmed is akin to creating a shooting range for the bad guys. There's a reason all of these mass shootings occur in gun free spaces. The shooter is safe. You never see a shooter enter a gun store. It's more of the idea that there may be armed people there which deters the incident from happening. Actually if you look up some stats, you can find many incidents where gun crimes or crime in general has been halted just with the suggestion of a firearm there.
I do believe that Texas is a concealed carry state...yet today's mass shooting took place there. The idea that some of the citizens may be armed didn't deter this nut.
Quote:
Authorities said Sunday they still could not explain why a man with an AR-style weapon opened fire during a routine traffic stop in West Texas to begin a terrifying, 10-mile (16-kilometre) rampage that killed seven people, injured 22 others and ended with officers gunning him down outside a movie theatre.
There is no such thing as a perfect solution. Evil people will always continue to do evil things. I have to doubt weather any of the victums where carrying. If I had to live there, I'd rather carry than not. Better to have it and not need it than the other way around.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I don’t wish to be argumentative Jeff. I used to make the same assertions and still believe mass killers chose “ soft targets “ because they are very cowardly as a rule, but I am starting to doubt an armed citizenry has any effect on these matters. My position seems to be supported by stats too as armed CCW people seem to never engage the killers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Kavanagh
On another note, I have no suggestions on how to stop this either. Unless first response gets really good at immediately killing these a-holes.
My next question for you then is, if you were down there and something like this started to happen, and you had the option of conceal carry, would you want to be armed or defenceless when the gunman shows up?Quote:
Originally Posted by dilly
I am just thankful I live in an area where this kind of thing is unlikely to happen. Although in the cities like Toronto I don't think this is far away.
Good conversation topic,i wish we can have a beer along the discussion.
Other then that-we do not live there,we do not pay taxes there,we do not vote there-what does it matter what we say or think about Texans?
They are adults and live their life as they think it fits them.
Just saying.
I guess we have to suck back our preconceived ideas about Toronto...a study released yesterday says it's the safest big city in North America :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Kavanagh
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/toront...port-1.4573536Quote:
Toronto is the safest city in North America, according to a new report on cities worldwide, which also ranks the Ontario capital as the sixth safest city overall.
This year’s Safe Cities Index, a report put out by The Economist Intelligence Unit, looked at 60 cities across five different continents. The criteria for scoring was split into four major categories: digital safety, infrastructure, health and personal safety.
The safest city, according to the report, is Tokyo, followed by Singapore, Osaka, Amsterdam and Sydney to round out the top five.
Man tough times, when Canada's safest city has such a high Homicide rate:
Quote:
The murder rate climbed in the latter part of 2015, and jumped in 2016 to 73. In 2017, homicides were down to 65. On November 18, 2018, with Cardinal Licorish, 23, of Ajax shot and killed at an apartment building in the area of Lawrence Avenue and Kingston Road, that death became Toronto's 90th homicide of that year which means the city has broken its homicide record, surpassing the old record of 89 homicides in 1991. A BlogTO post in June reveals that Toronto's homicide rate was higher than in New York City. The 2018 homicide tally included the 10 victims in the Yonge Street van attack and the 2 victims in the Danforth shooting.
This web site is obviously biased in favour of permits, but as you scroll thru the factual stories about bystanders with a CCW that have intervened, it's clear that it does happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by dilly
https://crimeresearch.org/2019/05/ub...blic-shooting/
One that particularly stands out:
Good embedded video at link:Quote:
"(The suspect) was confronted by a concerned citizen who saw him running away with the firearm and confronted him and (the suspect) pointed the firearm at him so that concerned citizen took action into his own hands and shot the perpetrator," Amos said. "It's a miracle. That's all you can say."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bystand...ro-police-say/
The last shooter in Texas was driving a truck down a road shooting at random people. Drove over 20 miles.
You think citizens are going to stand outside waiting for him if they have CCW incase he comes down their road so they can shoot it out?
The Walmart shooter before that had 50 rd drum mag on an AR10 and started in the parking lot. If you got your CCW pistol and your in the store, you going to confront this psycho?
Many cases where a civilian shoots and kills a criminal with their CCW issued gun either in robbery/break in attempts.
We all know how loud gun fire is, Imagine being indoors and hearing a centerfire rifle going off (likely 30 rds)and the mass chaos that would happen. Most people will run, some will freeze in shock, I bet very few have the training to defend themselves, maybe if your backed in a corner, but I bet most of us would try to get out of harm's way, instead of engaging it.
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Unfortunately with an armed society, there will always be bad people that commit evil acts against others. There's also unarmed societies that have even bigger problems like Iran and China. Countries where people have lost their rights and live in fear of their so called governments (dictators). More good guys with guns is a good thing imo. Freedom isn't free.
As more and more of this story leaks out, one has to wonder about the routine traffic stop that started this latest Texas shooting rampage. I suspect the shooter got suspicious of the cruiser behind him and pulled a quick left turn without a signal, to either loose the cruiser or confirm that he was being tailed. I have a feeling law enforcement had been notified of the suspect's firing and the employer had become a bit nervous about how he might react. The traffic stop may have been an attempt to head of any impending disaster at the workplace, but instead ended up spreading a rampage over 10 miles of interstate highway. So now they are attempt to figure out what motivate the shooting ???
You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
I see Texas has taken measures to combat the rise in gun violence in the state........they are 'loosening' gun restrictions;
Changes listed in article:Quote:
A series of new firearm laws go into effect in Texas on Sunday, just hours after a shooting left seven people dead in the western part of the state.
The laws will further loosen gun restrictions in a state that's had four of the 10 deadliest mass shootings in modern US history, including the El Paso shooting last month, when a gunman stormed a Walmart and killed 22 people.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/01/us/te...rnd/index.html
Thank you MikePal, that is the article I had read and had in mind when I posted the theme for this threat: Firearms as a deterrent.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
I think part of the gun problem in the US vs Canada is in Canada I believe most people were taught that a firearm is a tool used for hunting or target shooting. Where in the US people are taught more so that it is a tool for protection.
It'll be interesting to see if in a few years it has the desired effect. Texas is a good place to test the notion that:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
Quote:
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
You must be a closet Liberal. Wendy Cukier said basically the same thing only she implied the more legal guns there are the more gun crime there will be. Of course facts don't back up her hypotheses. TCQuote:
Originally Posted by Sam Menard
There is no gun problem in the US. There is a huge "people problem" that is much more complicated. If you look at the number of guns privately owned verses the number of "mass" shootings the percentage would probably be less than Canada's. Just a theory but I'm probably correct. TCQuote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
No they don't in reality. The good guys are normally hiding behind counters with lots of people behind them. The bad guys may be hiding but they tend to be alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
The good guys are trained to NOT wave the iron around, and only draw as a last option. Even the good guys with guns avoid the bad guy unless there is no other option.
Try a web search. News reports, security videos, POLICE reports...and the list goes on.Quote:
Originally Posted by dilly
Hard to do much good when the person was driving down the street shooting at people and other vehicles. It does in fact show that Concealed carry training works, because none of them started shooting at the mail truck the guy stole.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Well I NOT living in the States, I do spend a lot( way too much) of my time among those "GUN CRAZY AMERICANS ". So a few points.
1)Toronto is the safest city in North America.
When compared to Chicago, Baltimore, LA, St. Louis, Detroit, etc.
Of course it is.
2) No matter how unrestricted a states gun laws are, every privately own places can prohibit guns or any weapon.
There are places were the maintenance guys have to register their screwdrivers, wrenches, hammers, etc with security.
God help them if one of their tools goes missing, or they bring a replacement to work without filling out the paperwork.
3) More people are killed or injured with knives, bat, rolling pins, chairs, etc every week then die in mass shootings per year.
4) The news never really talks about the HUNDREDS that are kill every month in the Cities listed at the start of this post. It is not covered outside the local news, because it is gang related, ethnic on ethnic crime, and it does not fit the narrative. They love to quote the numbers of deaths by guns from the statistics, but not admit it is gang or ethnic violence that makes up a large portion of the numbers.
If the statistics on the number of gun deaths from only the five cities above are removed, the US ranks as one of the Safest Countries in the world.