Does anyone have a readers digest summary of the proposed changes?
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Does anyone have a readers digest summary of the proposed changes?
The new changes will take effect in 2021. From what I’m told, 2020 pretty much stays as is.
I see that some additional units will have calf tags next season.
After 2020 we go to a tag of a life time and no large group allocations.
I am baffled by a system that would give a tag to one person when the demand for most tags is increasing and the number of tags are dropping?
https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-0405
You can still party hunt, you will just be added to the individuals tag in some way.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibb
I don't see the downside of the new system for groups. Like mentioned above you can still party hunt. For a guy like me that only has 3 or 4 guys to camp, at least there is a chance for me to get a moose tag sometime in my life and they are all just given to groups of a dozen or more guys.
Glad to see the preference point system being implemented. It's been more than 20 years since I raised this with the MNR and asked them to look into it's use in the western states where there are many high-tag-demand areas. It's too bad that MNR takes a couple of decades to react to anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibb
2 decades of decreasing moose populations too, and to the verge of not being able to bring it back.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
I am in this boat to, applying as an individual.Quote:
Originally Posted by FishHog
I believe that after the tag lottery is implemented,the group system will no longer exist.
You won’t be added to a tag. Party hunting will remain, with some changes to group size and distances party members need to be from the tag holder. You will also be able to buy a licence with no tag at a reduced rate, to allow party hunting. There will be no group allocation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
In the clip notes version I read ( posted here A couple months ago I believe) new archery opportunities will be introduced in southern wmus for 2020. This is long overdue imo.
As a bow hunter, I wish archery moose management was conducted the way it is in bc. No lottery, bull tag for every hunter, moose must have set # of points each side to be legal (10 in bc., or in some areas, only spikes and forks etc..) it’s just another way to limit harvest. Gives bowhunters opportunity for lots of action and potentially closer to home, but makes chance of harvest very slim and moves all the all age bull tags and cow into the gun pools.....
My understanding in Quebec they rotate back and forth one year cow only and the next year Bull only.
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Originally Posted by outdoorlife
Cow is every other year bulls and calves every year
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Originally Posted by greatwhite
Honestly who cares about Quebec?
2 tags per moose at $500.00 a tag plus outfitter fees.
I am way more interested in Ontario, the only change I see for the better is the ability to enter draw for a small fee without wasting your money on a full license.
More restrictive hunt with smaller parties and only 3 km apart from the person with the tag.
I think the government is taking way more than they are giving.
So you are ok with the system now that kills off full generations of animals? Don't blame the natives either, non-natives kill lots of calves and they will never get a chance to reproduce.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibb
So what about camps bigger than 10 that have 1 tag? Sit guys on the bench? Doesn't sound like much fun to me.
There are a lot of camps that will have to sit guys outQuote:
Originally Posted by cramadog2
this year we would of had to tell 4 or 5 not to come and 10 more would have to put there guns away at 9 opening morning
makes it hard for big camps to cover expenses , taxes , leases and upkeep when guys can't hunt
they aren't going to pay for a week and sit in camp 4 or 5 days
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Originally Posted by gamemaster
Surely there may be a sensible limit to the # of hunters on one tag and its not 15-20. In Alberta and Manitoba the # is 2.
Winner,winner,chicken dinner! Calf seasons haven't changed in south (Sat to Fri. for whatever stupid reason),but,will be on lottery system the same as adult or be completely prohibited,entirely. How many hunters do you know that will pay full price for a license to simply party hunt for one calf? I don't know ONE. A crew might get enough meat to cover a whole cracker. They may even find it necessary to tell some members of camps with 8 or more hunters to stay home. That'll go over well,won't it? It appears the government wants to drastically reduce the Moose harvest while rigging the system to maintain a cash flow. It's bound to fall flatter than piss on a plate.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibb
Lots of groups pay full price to party hunt for deer to get 1 or 2 deer, a group of 8 getting a single doe or a doe/fawn combo is going home with a lot less meat than a group of 8 getting a calf moose.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I find it insane how much comes from the mouths of people who speak so highly of hunters being "conservationists". You say that we need to be allowed to hunt wolves, bears and coyotes to balance out the population yet when tags are pulled back from a population that is on desperate times you complain that you cannot hunt it.
Take a few years off, put your name in for that bull and wait for the population to come back, either that or shoot everything, blame the natives and make sure there are no moose in Ontario for your grandkids.
There's already a lottery for calves in some southern zones. And yes, people apply for them because it's a very high percentage draw. As far as "enough meat to cover a cracker" - a moose calf is larger than the biggest buck you'll ever shoot - and it's a lot more meat than you'll get with no tag at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
The MNR has continued to hand out calf tags expecting (as you do) that hunters will not use them. This has been proven wrong for the last thirty years, and even when there is a lottery for calves to further discourage it, hunters still will shoot calves because the system allows it. Instead of "hoping hunters won't shoot calves", why not just get rid of the calf season??? Oh - it's because of the cash. You can't sell calf licenses to hunters for the revenue it generates and expect them not to use them - which is what the MNR is hoping will happen.
It’s going to be interesting in 2021.....No group allocations, everyone applies individually, then buys a tag if successful. You will have the chance to buy a moose licence with no tag, at a reduced price, so you can party hunt with someone who does have a tag.....it’s going to be interesting !!
I think once this is in place, people are going to be fairly happy with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
The last I heard, the group sizes for party hunts will be lowered. Sounds to me like the system will be similar to the elk draw system we have now....maybe without the requirement to add the other hunters (3), on your application....Quote:
Originally Posted by outdoorlife
I think the question should be why the continuous drop in moose tags over the life of the lottery system? We should have at least triple the numbers we have today.
The problem is why more complex than killing calves.
YOU ARE KILLING OFF THE NEXT GENERATION EVERY SINGLE YEAR!!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by gibb
It is that bloody simple.
I know who they will blame though, bears, wolves, natives, ticks, etc, etc, etc.
The key here is that we allow every single hunter in Ontario with $50 to spend the ability to kill a calf, approximately 50% of those will be female, so we are allowing half of every single hunter in Ontario with $50 the ability to kill a cow moose without saying it.
I totally agree fox we can only take so many calfs before we have another problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
It's the same concept as the fish no small ones equals no future.
Call it how it is same would apply for the moose. You cant shoot all the young and expect a future. So now what you switch it and shoot the adults and there is still only small future ahead.
Even still only some areas have a healthy population of moose.
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Originally Posted by Fox
I completely agree with both of you. (it must be getting near Christmas)LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by fishfood