Don't forget to vote in the poll halfway down.
"Should there be a spring bear hunt? Dr. Keith Munro, a wildlife biologist with Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters, argues the hunt is based on science and is sustainable, while Judy Malone of Tourists Against Trophy Hunting says orphaning cubs is too common."
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/cont...bear-hunt.html
only 27% voting in favour of spring bear hunt with over 1,000 voters so far...scary...
Right-but the voters are not all hunters.They mostly do not really have first hand experience about hunting ,so they go whichever way they are influenced.I hope the spring bear hunt is not pending on the outcome...............Quote:
Originally Posted by kokes
I think these things should never go to be voted for-with the population distancing themselves more and more from hunting in general,outcome is iffy at best.
Eventhough most voters are non vegetarians-go figure.
It's a Toronto Star poll aimed specifically at an unaware urban demographic. If they polled in Timmins,North Bay or Temagami,they'd get an entirely different result.
There should be a spring hunt. There's a study kicking around someplace that showed the survival rate of orphaned cubs to be just as high as those still accompanied by the sow. I seem to recall the study was done by Laurentian University in the '80's.
Agreed. There is no scientific reason not to have it with the current status of bears in Ontario. The only reason people think otherwise is that they are misinformed on the facts or are simply using their emotions to form their opinioin.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
In the middle of a "debate" article it says."For more opposing view columns from Toronto Star contributors, click here."
This is all the info i needed to see for what the article's true intention is.
Not surprising in the least that people don't have a clue.
We had a thread trolled and shut down by a guy who appears to exploit Africa's natural resources while character assassinating foreign hunters for allowing guides to remove all their challenges that prohibit success. Go figure.
Maybe in the future we can just remove the people that violate the forums policies, rather then the thread. I'd be all for that, including myself if i got out of hand.
Thanks for restarting the spring hunt topic LBA, its important for hunters to be involved and know the facts.
Just to point out that that thread wasn't shut down because of a person's opinion. It was shut down because a few members got into personal attacks that had nothing to do with the topic.
Soon as I saw it was the Toronto Star I didn't even bother clicking on the link. I wonder how much time Judy Malone spends in the bush each spring to know how many cubs are orphaned each year. Basically she's calling hunters poachers as it's illegal to shoot a sow with cubs in the spring.
Most hunters are aware of the facts, but the rest of the general population could careless about true facts, scientific research or any kind of proof that says we need to hunt bears, it shows it wont matter what facts are in front of them in any gun related/hunting activity that we pursue and they don't participate in
You shut it down so that's fair for you to say that it escalated past your level of acceptance.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
I'm referring to the numerous requests by other members for that particular individual to stop slandering hunters on a hunting forum. That had everything to do with the topic and the resulting aftermath.
With such a high success rate in harvesting bears in the spring you would think they could easily show evidence of sow/ophraning cub violations. I cant find any evidence other then opinions.
The success rate in the spring isn't really that high,I think someone posted,somewhere,that it was around 8%. Cubs being orphaned through hunting would be exceedingly low if it was in the equation,at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by onelessarrow
The spring bear hunt shouldn’t never been canceled
... stop slandering hunters on a hunting forum.
I do not want to take sides in this debate -yet the first time i read the Forum rules was when i joined this great Forum(could be greater though...)many years ago.
Thru the bear hunting topic i was prompted to re-read the rules,and was contemplating should i ask how the rules apply to that thread.Especially Rules 2-3 .
I did not do it because i respect everyone's opinion,and does not really bother me if other hunters beat on each other(we are all adults,it takes a man to give,but it also takes a man to receive).
l also do understand the challenges and dilemmas the moderators face-i bet, it is not easy to do the moderators job.
At the other hand i was marveling what will take to shut the topic down(due of violating 2-3).
8% is the estimated population harvest.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Pretty sure success rate is closer to 30% of the hunters, with spring accounting for 60% of the overall harvest.
Well maybe we will see which number is closer to the truth. There is Mandatory reporting now right?Quote:
Originally Posted by onelessarrow
Yep better accurate data will be a good thing. It's been science and facts that's allowed us to come this far.
From the MNR:Quote:
Originally Posted by onelessarrow
Ont Bear population estimate: 85,000 to 105,000
Tags sold last year: 25,000
Estimated harvest: 5,000 and 6,000
That gives a hunter success rate of between 20% -25%
In terms of a cull...harvesting 5,000 bears is about 5% of the overal population.
That means the number of cubs that could be detrimentally affected would be negligible.
I chuckle when people discuss culls and spring hunts. If the idea is to remove a certain number of animals to reduce the population then hunting male only bears in the spring does a heck of a lot less than hunting sows in the fall. You are most likely killing "a while family" of bears by shooting a sow in the fall, she is most likely pregnant, not unlike shooting a any female big game animal in the fall in Ontario.
Your right, the last 5 years hunters have averaged 23% harvest rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
The point I was trying to make is that's a lot of bears hanging to not have evidence of charges. If there were lots of charges out there, you can be sure the media would be all over it.
I'm in the camp of " we're not the top of the food chain" and without hunting pressure in the spring, bears will eventually lose fear of humans as demonstrated by the number of bear-human conflicts once the spring hunt was cancelled.
I'll be interested in seeing whether complaints drop dramatically over the next 10 years.
Last year was my first spring hunt and I was successful so that makes me 100% successful... lol
We are going again this season. Baiting starts on May 01st! :)
Umm not really. A sow with cubs will not breed that year, it's every second year after she has given the yearling cubs the boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Then you'll be at 50% , then 33%, then 25%.Quote:
Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter
Don't worry about baiting.. Just get up before sun rise. You cook yourself a nice breakfast of eggs, Bacon, Toast and coffee( got to have the coffee smell).
Leave the dirty fry pan, dishes, coffee cups, and stuff on table and bag with the bacon package and egg shell on the ground beside it.
Find a nice spot( you should have a couple picked out already) to sit and wait about 10 to 15 minutes before legal shooting time. You should have a bear walking into camp with in a hour or two..:thumbup:
If you shoot a sow that does not have cubs she is probably bred or would be bred so therefore you just killed her future cubs that year.Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty55
OR....deep fry a turkey....bears will show up pretty quick !Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
That's right Smitty55 and i thought i read something the other day about a female won't breed until their 3rd year maybe 4th year, can't remember now, interesting though.Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty55
Black bear females do not reproduce until they are three to five years old but some may be as old as seven when they first produce young. Females normally breed every other year and have an average of two cubs, but can have one to five. Cub mortality is high, with an average of 50 percent dying in their first year due to natural causes.
Female black bears do not mate while racing young, so may only produce six litters in her lifetime
^^^^^^^ BINGO!! ^^^^^^^ This tactic can be used if hunting in an area where bait stations could be in violation of the distance rule to trails and bush roads. I have it on very good authority that it works,too.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
After I ate all that Turkey,sitting on a watch I'd be sawin' logs and miss the Bear altogether. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
I am thinking, a couple gallons of hot oil over top of an open flame surrounded by a few hundred acres of brush...... You may not much to eat after you drop that turkey.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
https://youtu.be/tSI79ZftCpU
ROFL. Too much oil. Stupid is as stupid does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
I must admit that I am totally new to the possibility of bear hunting. The only reason why I am considering it is that the farmer that has given me access to land to hunt turkey is having a problem with a very large boar decimating his bee hives. Having said that I take this endeavor seriously. I feel that if I'm gonna kill an animal I better damn well honor that animal and use every bit of it. As with all of my hunting this would be a bow only hunt.
I know that bears lose approximately 30% of their body weight during their torpor. How quickly will a bear gain that back ? If one is not pursuing a bear that is causing problems ( I really didn't want to use the term problem bear ) would it not be better to wait until the fall when the bear has reached peak size for the season ?
If I was the farmer with the bees, that is likely a part of his livelihood, I'd want that bear dead ASAP.
Most of what they loose is fat...so not a real issue. Besides, if you remove it as an agent for a landowner (private property) you best do it as soon as you can and cherish whatever meat you can get.Quote:
Originally Posted by firedeptlt
As a bee keeper in a rural area.....I would shoot it on sight, anytime of the year....as allowed by the law...just remember to call the MNR and report it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by firedeptlt
Like Cramadog2 and MikePal have said,the farmer can eliminate that Bear at any time,legally,to prevent damage to livestock and property as prescribed in law. You may do so,also,provided you can show written proof from the farmer that you are his bona fide agent. A landowners permission slip can be downloaded from the OFAH site with a simple note in the comments section appointing you as his agent for property protection from predators. This is not really a big deal,but,it could be if you end up dealing with an officious CO or the Police. CYA is the rule of the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Quote:
Originally Posted by firedeptlt
I don’t think is a good reason for you to kill the bears just because is distorting the bee hives
Did you ever call the MNR and trying to traps the bear so can get relocate
Looks like you’re not really interested on hunting bears on the spring
But you would do it just to get rid off it
Wth are you talking about???? A bear damaging a farmers hives is the perfect reason to shoot it. Plus it's up to the farmer to contact the MNR if he so chooses, not the OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by skull
Sorry,but,you're out to lunch with that post. Farmers are in business to make money,not feed the Bears. Honey is a huge cash crop and bees are in danger of becoming listed as a species at risk. A friend of mine had seventeen hives all destroyed by a marauding Blackie over three day period,so,he took a flashlight and went out one night and shot it. It cost a small fortune to rebuild his operation. He applied to the township for some form of compensation and they just laughed at him. If it was me,I'd have whacked him sooner.Quote:
Originally Posted by skull
That’s exactly what I have said on my postQuote:
Originally Posted by smitty55
is not up to OP just to kill a bear to get rid of it
I’m sure you must missed understand what I have saidQuote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I have no problem if the farmers does kill the bear
But for someone else just to kill a bear to get rid of it that’s not the best thing to do
A farmer I know did not want to kill the bear, that damaged his hives, he put up an electric fence around them, problem solved. To each their own .
Some farmers don’t hunt. It’s perfectly OK to act as an agent to assist the landowner, providing the rules are followed.Quote:
Originally Posted by skull
Absolutely correctQuote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
But the OP said he is CONSIDERING on killing the bear to help the farmer
Witch is ok
I have suggested that there is different way to help
Not just killing something that you don’t want to
I think I saw that on a t-shirt downtown Toronto. ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by gbk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have a farmer friend who doesn’t have a gun or license. I’ve helped them a few times. Why on earth would it matter who takes care of a problem animal like bears or coyotes for a farmer?!? It’s illogical.Quote:
Originally Posted by skull
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Let do this one last timeQuote:
Originally Posted by Rob Stewart
I have stated on all my posts that is nothing wrong helping the farmers
The original post if you haven’t read it is CONSIDERING on killing the bear
I have suggested that
there is no need for him on killing a bear if don’t want to or killing it just to get rid of it
The MNR can relocate the bear
Hope this clear things up
I said considering because I have never hunted bear before.
The landowner DOES have electric fencing around his hives. Not an effective deterrent to this particular bear. This bear has also broken into a barn to get the reserve hives/combs.
The landowner has 600 acres and the bear chooses to come close to the homestead. This property is part a larger forest area ( approx 30000 acres ).
Being a newer hunter ( approx 2 years.. started at the ripe old age of 45 ) I think long and hard about what I am considering hunting. Some topics include shot placement ( bow only hunter ), proper care for the downed animal, hunting techniques, possible uses for the animal parts not just meat and hide. I do not take the idea of killing an animal lightly.Attachment 39759Attachment 39760Attachment 39761
Not that easy..since 2012 the removal is done thru the bear wise program. The MNR will only assist the OPP, on request and that is if, primarily there is a public safety concern. The farmer would have to jump thru all sorts of hoops, lots of phone calls etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by skull
His choices to resolve is to: A) as mentioned , fence (electric) around the hives, That's expensive and not always practical or very efficient in most hive setups or B) since he is authorized by law to use an agent to remove the beer permanently... FREE.
Not a tough decision.
note: I single hive of bees can cost close to $1k to replace not to mention, the loss of the honey harvest in the fall could cost another another $1k. If he has 5-6 hives that gets pretty expensive. A quick, permanent resolve to the beer problem is prudent.
I was typing my last post when you posted this, sorry if there is some confusion. Good to get additional info.Quote:
Originally Posted by firedeptlt
If you feel your skill set is limited and you'd like some assistance, there are a few local hunters (Ottawa area) on this forum that would more than likely be happy to offer you assistance in helping the farmer.
The only time you will get the MNRF to relocate a bear, is if it’s running around Yonge Street !!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
From OFAH
The Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry has made a decision on two recent proposals on black bear hunting and we’re pleased to say that Ontario will have a regular, annual spring black bear season starting in 2021.
This announcement caps off a 21-year effort by the OFAH that started with the spring hunt’s abrupt cancellation in 1999. We fought the cancellation in court for three years and have kept it at the forefront of our advocacy efforts ever since, lobbying every successive provincial government and relevant Minister. We fought for the limited pilot spring season that was introduced in 2014 and then advocated to have it expanded in 2016. With the pilot set to sunset on June 15, 2020, we fought to secure the certainty for our members and the hunting community at large, and now we have it.
In the decision notices the MNRF announced that they will:
Make the spring bear hunt a regular annual season starting in 2021. The 2020 spring hunt is the final year of the pilot hunt.
Reduce the spring season in Wildlife Management Units (WMU) 82A, 83 and 84 for one week from May 1 to May 7 and close the fall season in those same units. Takes effect May 1, 2020.
Only require a single report from resident hunters, whether they hunt in the spring or the fall. Takes effect Jan 1, 2021.
Reduce the minimum distance requirement for placement of bait from rights of way for public vehicular traffic and marked and maintained recreational trails for black bear hunting from the current 200 metres to 30 metres. Applies to the 2020 bear hunting season.
Eliminate the special hunting opportunities for non-resident landowners and non-residents hunting with an immediate relative and require persons providing hunting services to residents within a bear management area to obtain a Licence to Provide Bear Hunting Services. Takes effect Jan 1, 2021.
While this is an extremely important development, it does not mark the end of the OFAH’s black bear advocacy. We’ll keep working to ensure that black bear management in the province is science-based and results in maximum sustainable hunting opportunities while guaranteeing healthy black bear populations for future generations.
Brilliant, well done!
They have also announced baiting distance.
https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-00...7G652OnIQP6WPE
Sorry
see it's in the previous comment
Times 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21