LTCs. Full blown public inquiry coming

This makes me so sad and cynical.

It’s almost certain there’s going to be a full blown inquiry. Lots of hand wringing, shock and outrage.

Yet, no one, can say they weren’t warned. The issues at LTCs, the future many face, the need for more ( of everything) as Boomers age, and including their inability to save......so they or fewer end up in LTCs...

Decades......

And never worth the time of day........until now....Always there’s been other things and people, deemed more important. Always, other things worth buying your/our votes, always other things, worth throwing money and resources at, and always we the electorate.......didn’t care enough. If we cared more, politicians would too..

So many crocodile tears and outrage......today.But No-One, can say they weren’t warned.

.Few listened.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/mat...-term-care-now

Shame for sure.What is more concerning,i read similar things from Overseas too.It seems old people in homes are very vulnerable and not truly protected .
This may also contributes big time to the death toll of COVID too.

Bob Rae, Mike Harris, Dalton McQuinty, Kathleen Wynne, Doug Ford are all responsible for this, government is the problem, and the inquiry is window dressing and distraction (kept on private run -when government facilities are suffering same fate) to keep the focus off government ownership of rules and regulations which exist for LTC and rules under RHRA and LTCA which governs both privaye and public systems. You are right the warning have been there for 35 yrs, it was always going to happen this way, with the same outcome, because of the close quarters and canned sardine methods we employ in LTC. Condensing sick and frail people is closed boxes will always produce the same results in infection control.

They (Ford, who is left holding the hook), is the patsy who has to bear the brunt. Sadly, the left will use it to tarnish him, Ford will use to blame the private run facilities to keep focus off the government...and people will continue to die.

My wife is a Director Of Care at private facility (Free from COVID), they started weeks before isolation procedures, the government run facilities has always been behind about 3 weeks of private industry.

But really it isn't about public or private runs systems - it about the people, infection control procedures, AND PURE LUCK for each facility. The people working and the care they exercise is are the only stop gap for prevention. But, you could have one of your residents go out for treatment at a hospital and come back with it, as they were not testing before they left the hospital early on, before sending back to homes.

I wrote this, this morning.

The truth about LTC, it is and has been a government created problem. The shift in story is being placed on Private industries to cover up the failure of government created conditions.

Government ensures you dont remember how we got to the point of allowing private home care providers.

Bob Rae, massively increased Ontario's debt, and Mike Harris government took over and tried to balance the budget, by cutting government programs and debt created by Rae.

At the same time in Ontario, RNs won their wage parity case and finally started to be paid what they were actually worth. Faced with years of back pay owned to 1000s of RNs, and a protected work environment, the government started to close LTCs and hospitals (demographics were not there either). As the closures continued, the need for more private facilities increased and regulations were put in place to manage standards of care...which are equal today in both private and public facilities. Both are regulated by RHRA, and LTCA.

Coupled with closures RNs became a huge salary liability, and the late 1980s they created the RPN role with more duties, less pay and started phasing out non university qualified RNs, which eventually only became nurse managers and critical care nurses.

This not Fords fault, the warning have been there for 30 yrs, pandemics in form of influenza happen each year in LTCs and lockdowns are a normal practice in the public and private industry. People die at LTC during influenza outbreaks all the time.
The problem has been government and every government since Bob Rae has failed to address the problem.

Lastly the Military (I am ex military), suffers none of the provincial pressure that front line staff face in provincial healthcare. However, you could cant debate direct fact reporting, but you also have to temper military fact based reporting with complete lack of knowledge of provincial operations and rules and ask the military which always has the budget and needs to delivery the healthcare to its members. To them it must look horrible when they are used to having best of everything. It isn't that way in public sector.

Government is always the problem, and now they are just shifting focus to private run facilities to take the heat of them the owners and regulators who set the conditions.

Line052, much of what you say is true. I worked 32 years in LTC. All in municipally run , not for profit homes and I can attest to the validity of many of your assertions. The writing has been on the wall for decades. In my department , Programs and Services, LTC, City of Toronto were we had 32 employees, after the Harris cuts we went down to 18, and we were playing catch up ever since. When I started in 1981, the staff in a home was 80% full time, 20% part time. When I left in 2013 the ratio had changed to 40% full time and 60% part time.I bet it's even greater now. Why? To save money.The wonderful people that I worked with over the years in LTC, always did the best they could, with what they were given to work with. Except for the owners and shareholders of private firms, people do not work, or get into LTC, to become wealthy, for most, it truly is a 'calling'.

Pretty much lineo.

The one caveat I’d add, is that the electorate is equally at fault. All politicians, all. Including yourself, do, what you deem important, a priority, based on the electorate and what “we” deem is, or isn’t important. And even if your party had these things at the very top of your priorities....If “we” don’t care, you don’t get elected.....

In real terms.
Bob Rae blew the wad, trashed the house because he promised the moon, won by accident, and tried to deliver.

MH the great evil one everyone on the left blames for everything inherited a mess (nowhere near as bad as today’s). Did he screw a few things up? Yes he did.
I’d love to see anyone try to fix what Fords inherited without problems down the road.....

Again, ultimately it’s the electorates fault. And no one can say they weren’t warned.

About any of it, up to and including wanton spending, deficits, and debt, what the great champions of the less fortunate (PS Unions) fought for.....or didn’t.....and don’t...They too, have been warned about this, warmed about the strains and needs as Boomers age, and more, and more, and more will need LTCs..

and including people inability to save for their golden years, so that they don’t end up in LTCs to begin with.

But hey, teachers, all day daycare, green energy, rapid transit, anything and everything has, for 30 years been more important.....

Period, end of debate. Few, have listened....And The buck stops with the electorate.

It’s easy to point the finger at politicians. The reality is they aren’t necessarily the ones who are responsible. The multiple levels of civil service who are supposed to provide oversight and timely inspections of these facilities have jobs for life and don’t need to be re-elected. Why were these facilities allowed to deteriorate like they did? Ford’s job isn’t to do the boots on the ground work. Why aren’t we making those who are paid very well to monitor standards accountable?

This release from last September might show some of the reasons for todays situation.
https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.c...d-care-levels/

Good read Woodsman. Astute. Just some of the reasons. Some also could be fixed by paying the PSW that looks after your loved one, more an hour, than you pay the guy who cuts your lawn.

He will have to answer for that Woodsman. But that is just the most recent, obvious, surface level item a full blown inquiry will look at, ask questions.

I definitely do not agree with all he’s done..trying to find savings...the fact remains name one thing he has tried, certain people, certain groups haven’t fought tooth and nail....

So what would you do, any politician do but cut the low hanging fruit no one cares about, or fights for....

And wouldn’t a fair question be. Where was that organization from 2000-2016 when money was being flushed down the drain, spent on others, and other things left right and center.

There’s only so much money, and only so many tax payers, and the fact is. Many....many...are ending up in LTCs, because......
sure let’s just a few billion in paper money that doesn’t exist and hire more PSWs, give them a decent living wage, so they themselves don’t end up....

/slams back down to earth with the reality and gravity of the situation.

No one, can say “you weren’t warned”. We’ve ( my industry) been harping about it since the 90s. When it became obvious millions of boomers were in trouble. And LTCs themselves. FFS even Don Drummond tried to warn people..

Just google “Ontario, long term care, baby boomers”. Decades worth of warnings..

Is it fair to criticize Ford for the smallest and latest? Sure it is, and he will have to answer for that. But.........

How about the Ontario governments inspection process for LTC Homes?
From a proactive & reactionary system to almost completely a reactionary system.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/senio...ions-1.5532585

Definitely something he will have to answer for.

My question would be.
680 homes. That’s 2 for every day of the year. A good audit, let’s say takes 2 weeks or 80 man hours.

54,400 man hours.

There’s 1,880 man hours available per inspector, per year (47 weeks ( 52-vacay-stat)).

We need roughly 5,000 inspectors. If we want each LTC to under go a 2 week audit, once per year.

5,000 inspectors, at say $70,000 is 350,000,000,. Now add a 25% premium for average PS benefits. $420,000,000

Shall we take that from COs? Isn’t saving the planet..

RNs? Crap, don’t we need about 30,000 more. Will we also not want about the same number of PSWs? Surgical mask or N95s?
ventilators and beds?

Take it from ministry of education? Boards?


The very people ending up in LTCs....?

what about Hydro rates, gangs and guns?

People need to stop blaming or focusing on Ford. Whatever he’s done, it’s just the latest and smallest.

This atrocity (let’s call it what it is) spans decades.

Good read.

“ Like others, the former executive said there have been years of warnings about systemic problems in long-term care and retirement homes, about the impact of staff shortages and about lack of response to issues that should have been addressed by governments earlier.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/local-...box=1590685569

So....
where were those who claim to champion the less fortunate.....

where were all those who are “howling” today.....

where was the electorate. Because ultimately, as with any issue, politicians want votes...if the electorate screams loud enough, like today....

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Originally Posted by line052

My wife is a Director Of Care at private facility (Free from COVID), they started weeks before isolation procedures, the government run facilities has always been behind about 3 weeks of private industry.

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All they need is 1 person to come in sick or be asymptomatic and not clean properly and it will be through that home in no time flat.

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Originally Posted by JBen

Definitely something he will have to answer for.

My question would be.
680 homes. That’s 2 for every day of the year. A good audit, let’s say takes 2 weeks or 80 man hours.

54,400 man hours.

There’s 1,880 man hours available per inspector, per year (47 weeks ( 52-vacay-stat)).

We need roughly 5,000 inspectors. If we want each LTC to under go a 2 week audit, once per year.

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I must be missing something in your math as my take is 54,400/1880 = roughly 29 inspectors.

Regardless of staffing you are bang on that this will cost a fortune. Reminds me of Walkerton. Decades of apathy by government from all parties and eventually the stars align and innocent people die.

The fallout from that was in the 10s of billions. I own a company that operates, designs and builds water treatment and wastewater treatment plants. Pre Walkerton we never had an inspection ever plus there were no hard operational standards - only objectives. Since Walkerton our municipal plants get 3 audits per year. A compliance audit, a conformance audit and an internal audit. One in three compliance audits on average is suprise as well with no notice. Additionally all our facilities have been accredited through an ISO type of certification.

It will take something like the O'Connor inquiry after Walkerton to figure this out and move forward.

It seems too much focus is being placed on Government and their negligence with lackadaisical inspections. As stated here earlier this has been going on for a lot more governments than just the Ford crowd. I think the emphasis on blame should be put on the money grubbing owners of these facilities and maybe even a bit of jail time might be what it takes to get their attention.

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Originally Posted by sawbill

It seems too much focus is being placed on Government and their negligence with lackadaisical inspections. As stated here earlier this has been going on for a lot more governments than just the Ford crowd. I think the emphasis on blame should be put on the money grubbing owners of these facilities and maybe even a bit of jail time might be what it takes to get their attention.

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X2 -accountability is a dying term at many instances

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Originally Posted by sawbill

It seems too much focus is being placed on Government and their negligence with lackadaisical inspections. As stated here earlier this has been going on for a lot more governments than just the Ford crowd. I think the emphasis on blame should be put on the money grubbing owners of these facilities and maybe even a bit of jail time might be what it takes to get their attention.

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Absolutely there should be jail time.
Problem is money grubbers will keep grubbing unless caught and held to account. Only way to catch them is to impose rules/regulations that are enforced by inspectors/ provincial officers. Even if they jail the worst offenders in the latest debacle, share holders will force a return to business as usual unless there is meaningful on going enforcement of rules.

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Originally Posted by Species8472

Absolutely there should be jail time.
Problem is money grubbers will keep grubbing unless caught and held to account. Only way to catch them is to impose rules/regulations that are enforced by inspectors/ provincial officers. Even if they jail the worst offenders in the latest debacle, share holders will force a return to business as usual unless there is meaningful on going enforcement of rules.

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Exactly.
Without inspections and consequences nothing will improve.

There will be an inquiry. Many will make large daily billing income from it. It will be part of the next election campaigns and politically opportunistic promises will be made to get elected. They will blame Doug Ford for a system created by someone else, years ago. Nobody is going to jail. Jail is for poor people.

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Originally Posted by terrym

There will be an inquiry. Many will make large daily billing income from it. It will be part of the next election campaigns and politically opportunistic promises will be made to get elected. They will blame Doug Ford for a system created by someone else, years ago. Nobody is going to jail. Jail is for poor people.

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And the commoner (unknown). Most people with a title and money seem to be untouchable. Rich and titled people rarely go to jail or pay personally for their crimes.
They will use our money and the media to make it all better in the short term. There really needs to be a forcible/accountable long term solution.
They should be charged and thrown in jail !!!!

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Originally Posted by terrym

They will blame Doug Ford for a system created by someone else, years ago.

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Dougies cuts had nothing to do with it?
https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.c...d-care-levels/

Just to compare apples with apples - BOTH Private and Public LTCs are governed and regulated by same laws. I have a wife who has worked in both public (10 yrs, Private 15 yrs), I can assure you private facilities are a business and compliant - they have to be or else they get shut down. It is without a doubt, the public facilities get away with far more and are less accountable - because it always leads back to someone in charge of the program..no accountability. Both Public and Private are on a regular inspection schedule and yes they both get about 3 days notification prior to an inspection. Random med audits, Health and Safety are not scheduled and no warnings are given at all. If you understand that public managers are not accountable (as they never fire anyone) , however, private run facilities have a bottom line and over the last 15 yrs I watched the owners march managers out the door and have 15 minutes to collect belongings. Most if not all Private facilities have unionized PSW/UCP/RPNs, and they are "least" active unions I have ever seen. If anything, PSW's should have a reporting body of professional standards and it something my wife complains bitterly over Nurses have College of Nurses (CON) and a discipline committee - PSW - nothing - no complaints mechanism, no review of performance, violence, theft no oversight what-so-ever. You have no idea if the person you are hiring - has been fired, disciplined or has a performance issue. That is the sole purpose of the College of Nurses, a licensed self regulating body, in which you can search a nurse's background, discipline procedures or actions leveled a registered person. Nurse's are licenced and accountable, PSW's are not.

Dont get me wrong, as a libertarian - I dont want state controlled healthcare at all, nor do I agree with state mandated licencing bodies, however I do believe every trade certified person (by a professional body - not government), should have a record of performance and complaints systems.

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Originally Posted by Woodsman

How about the Ontario governments inspection process for LTC Homes?
From a proactive & reactionary system to almost completely a reactionary system.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/senio...ions-1.5532585

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Mike Harris is the CEO of the biggest private LTC company in the province. He became boss when he left politics, after decimating the rules and regulations of LTC. Coincidence, I think not.

From the Story _ Ontario Health Coalition - "But CBC News has learned that last year, only nine out of 626 homes in Ontario actually received so-called resident quality inspections (RQIs)"

RQI's are not Home Inspections they are Resident surveys, these are not RHRA inspections, which does, housekeeping, Kitchen, Heath & Safety, Nursing and Maintenance inspections, they are comprehensive and details, including medication standards, Chart Reviews, FA qualifications, Falls Prevention, WHMIS certifications, licence reviews, fall certification records. I have debated the OHC and it is a PSAC driven, NDP/LIB backed union pushing growth organization. Not actual healthcare advocates, union growth advocates under the guise of helping. They get much airplay, as they are funding by government and Unions.

I question the CBC report and experts, used in it. Where is the CARP https://www.carp.ca/ , why are they not a voice in this "well rounded self promotion" mouth piece article.

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Originally Posted by Woodsman

Dougies cuts had nothing to do with it?
https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.c...d-care-levels/

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Nice try, but your statement is not true, and even he did, what did MCQuinty and Wynne do to fix (13 yrs in power) and hand over to Ford. Nice try..but your facts dont include all data of cause and relationship after Harris left office. (P.S. I didn't like Harris either)

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Mike Harris is the CEO of the biggest private LTC company in the province. He became boss when he left politics, after decimating the rules and regulations of LTC. Coincidence, I think not.

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What part is not true.???? Yes he is the boss. Yes did change the rules and regs for LTC.

OK..what did 13 yrs of liberal power do to change it?

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

What part is not true.???? Yes he is the boss. Yes did change the rules and regs for LTC.

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Nothing. But harris did change the rules then became a CEO in the industry. That part is true.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Nothing. But harris did change the rules then became a CEO in the industry. That part is true.

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Harris sits on the Board of a nursing home company and is not "a CEO in the industry." There's a difference.

You are correct , Harris is CEO of Chartwell a leader in the LTC industry. He earns $237,000 a year in that position. Question is, did he decimate the regulatory bodies in LTC care knowing he would get a job in the industry after politics, or did he get the job afterwards as a 'reward'?

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

You are correct , Harris is CEO of Chartwell a leader in the LTC industry. He earns $237,000 a year in that position. Question is, did he decimate the regulatory bodies in LTC care knowing he would get a job in the industry after politics, or did he get the job afterwards as a 'reward'?

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So...just so I'm clear. You're alleging a former premiere, who left politics almost two full decades ago, is the sole reason for the current state of LTCs? You're further impugning him with baseless allegations as a very crummy way to bolster your argument?

Right. 2003-2018, fifteen full years under Liberal Govt. Tax and spend, ballooning the provincial debt to the highest sub sovereign in the world....during which a major series of crimes occur in LTCs ( Wettlaufer), which in fact launched an inquiry into violence and assault taking place in LTCs.

The Liberal Govt. courted Union and For profit firms, and refused to implement a minimum care standard. In fact it was called out in 2007, by a long standing legislative committee regarding Bill 140 The Long Term Care Homes Act. In which it was shown that understaffing had chronically resulted in higher incidents of violence and deficits of care.

In 2005, Liberal Premier Dalton McGuinty promised to implement a minimum care standard. But in 2007, the government broke that promise by not including it in the Long-Term Care Homes Act despite the urging of those who knew the industry best. Although the Liberals appointed an expert to produce a report on the issue in 2008 – the result of which was more inaction – and promised in 2017 that direct care would rise to four hours by 2022, they ultimately failed to reinstitute the minimum care standard regulation.

....but hey.....continue to spin how something almost 2 decades ago, greatly contributed to the apathy and neglect that took place in the intervening period.

Nope. I never stated he was the sole reason behind the crisis in LTC. Just that the worst of it, started with his mandate. Then he went on to run, (CEO), one of the most profitable companies in the LTC business. And yes all governments since have failed , in that regard.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Nope. I never stated he was the sole reason behind the crisis in LTC.

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No, you simply take the opportunity to blame an opposing political ideology to yours, conveniently ignoring the share of the blame that is proportionate to the party you support. You also hurl a veiled allegation of impropriety or cronyism by way of feeble attempt to bolster your argument.

It would be quite convenient to point out that much of Harris' policies vis-a-vis cost cutting were as a result of Bob Rae's Government. ( This is a very definitive causation link), but most of us can acknowledge that the ball has been dropped by successive governments, with not one owning most of the blame.

The current Conservative government happens to be driving the ship when the water gets noticed on the lower decks. Say what you will, but the Ford Govt. has ( despite claims to the contrary), displayed a remarkable amount of accountability during this time of crisis. I have no doubt that this particular issue will see an improvement. Complete resolution will take longer than the current mandate.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

You are correct , Harris is CEO of Chartwell a leader in the LTC industry. He earns $237,000 a year in that position. Question is, did he decimate the regulatory bodies in LTC care knowing he would get a job in the industry after politics, or did he get the job afterwards as a 'reward'?

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Clearly you don't understand the roles and functions of a Board officer versus those of a corporate executive. Harris did not "run" Chartwell. He sat on their Board.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

No, you simply take the opportunity to blame an opposing political ideology to yours, conveniently ignoring the share of the blame that is proportionate to the party you support. You also hurl a veiled allegation of impropriety or cronyism by way of feeble attempt to bolster your argument.

It would be quite convenient to point out that much of Harris' policies vis-a-vis cost cutting were as a result of Bob Rae's Government. ( This is a very definitive causation link), but most of us can acknowledge that the ball has been dropped by successive governments, with not one owning most of the blame.

The current Conservative government happens to be driving the ship when the water gets noticed on the lower decks. Say what you will, but the Ford Govt. has ( despite claims to the contrary), displayed a remarkable amount of accountability during this time of crisis. I have no doubt that this particular issue will see an improvement. Complete resolution will take longer than the current mandate.

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It’s just more of the same, tired old Liberal mantra......it’s Harris’ fault.....

BINGO the left exposed.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

No, you simply take the opportunity to blame an opposing political ideology to yours, conveniently ignoring the share of the blame that is proportionate to the party you support. You also hurl a veiled allegation of impropriety or cronyism by way of feeble attempt to bolster your argument.

It would be quite convenient to point out that much of Harris' policies vis-a-vis cost cutting were as a result of Bob Rae's Government. ( This is a very definitive causation link), but most of us can acknowledge that the ball has been dropped by successive governments, with not one owning most of the blame.

The current Conservative government happens to be driving the ship when the water gets noticed on the lower decks. Say what you will, but the Ford Govt. has ( despite claims to the contrary), displayed a remarkable amount of accountability during this time of crisis. I have no doubt that this particular issue will see an improvement. Complete resolution will take longer than the current mandate.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

It’s just more of the same, tired old Liberal mantra......it’s Harris’ fault.....

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Anytime you run into someone still angry about Mike Harris two decades later there is only one question:

What grade do you teach?

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Anytime you run into someone still angry about Mike Harris two decades later there is only one question:

What grade do you teach?

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ROFL...

You almost owed me a keyboard....i choked on my darn coffee....

Hahahahhahaha

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Originally Posted by badenoch

anytime you run into someone still angry about mike harris two decades later there is only one question:

What grade do you teach?

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Anytime you run into someone still angry about Mike Harris two decades later there is only one question:

What grade do you teach?

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Hahaaaaa, good one,, the only time I think of Mike Harris is when I drive on hwy 407. That 99 year lease still hurts. Paying a Spanish company for using an Ontario hwy is insane.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Anytime you run into someone still angry about Mike Harris two decades later there is only one question:

What grade do you teach?

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Yes that is a good one. Please add , 'what LTC home did you work at? We in health care, along with the teaching profession, were decimated by harris. Some would say good. Look at where that got us. Satisfied?

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Yes that is a good one. Please add , 'what LTC home did you work at? We in health care, along with the teaching profession, were decimated by harris. Some would say good. Look at where that got us. Satisfied?

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Get over it. Mike Harris hasn't been Premier of Ontario for almost 20 years.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Yes that is a good one. Please add , 'what LTC home did you work at? We in health care, along with the teaching profession, were decimated by harris. Some would say good. Look at where that got us. Satisfied?

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Are you actually saying the teaching profession has been decimated? They have all been sitting at home since March break at full pay. Their union advised them “not to participate in online learning”. The teacher unions controlled this Province for the last 15 years. They have the best pensions and salaries in North America. I’m baffled, please explain what you mean by “decimated”????

The sad thing is they do not want to take any(even slight) part in economical hardships, many times our fellow citizens ,the taxpayers do...............fair and justified eh?