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Pulled these off my trail cam the other day.....what appears, in a hunting scenario, a beardless Tom. He might have a very short beard hidden in the feathers but a non-shooter by the rules.
Also odd looking Tail feathers for what appears to be a mature Tom...
https://i.imgur.com/iyikcCSl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/i858PRYl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/onsvmY9l.jpg
Looks like he had a rough winter! I had a beardless tom in front of me one turkey season. He gobbled his head off 15 yards from me. I was looking for even one beard hair, but couldn't find any. I had to let him go. He passed by my friend a few minutes later, and he also couldn't find a beard.
Either a rough winter, and tail feathers frozen in snow, or attacked by something (coyote??) who just got his tail.
You see some weird configurations in turkeys. I had a hen come in, strutting and trying to gobble ! This year, bearded hens were pretty common. I haven’t seen a mature gobbler yet with no beard though....could be a genetic anomaly...
I wonder if we are going to see more of this. There is a trend in Africa for elephants to not have tusks, tusked elephants are shot and those who have no tusks have no value to poachers so they are left to enhance their weird genetics into the population.
This would apply if no beard was a genetic trait. Don't think is an issue as there is not a significant report of verified beardless Toms. I'd speculate the beard is there but lost due to some physical circumstance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
This old bird was down to two visible strands and if he kept his distance would of passed as a breadless Tom however fortunately for me walk too within yards for a visible confirmation.
https://live.staticflickr.com/955/39...3a3c91d3_z.jpg[url=https://flic.kr/p/23LxukS]
In any case good to error on caution as the possibility may exist however unlikely
Definitely a mature Tom judging by the wing patch. Beard rot is common, and I have shot a few Toms over the years with quite short beards.
I've also shot a mature Tom with no spurs. No nubs, just smooth legs.
-Nick
You call him a beardless Tom but I call him a smart Tom. Would you grow your beard knowing your going to get shot lol I’m sure he knows that and got his buddies to step on his tail lol
The tom I got opening morning was getting the absolute snot kicked out of him by a beardless tom right before I shot it. I wanted to shoot the beardless one as he was clearly the dominant bird, however is friend got it lol.
It could be genetic, there are bearded hens, something in their genes causes that.Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
In Ontario bearded toms have been culled from the population for 30 years. Have yet to see or hear of a true beardless bird. Don't believe this will ever be an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
If he's still around come fall, I'll use my Hen/Tom tag and see if he has any hair stubble under that chest full of feathers....but I wouldn't shoot him as a Bearded Turkey in the spring (not visible) . That's probably why you don't hear much about it happening...you'd have to admit killing an illegal bird.Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
Yes the only way to positively identify a non visible bearded Tom as a true beardless Tom is a necropsy. That would answer the question if it was due to genetic deficiency or due to physical wear and tear however anecdotally you rarely hear a hunter report seeing a beardless toms out there. In any case as I said above need to pass on a bird if you don't see that beard in the spring.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
A little off topic, I have never plucked one before, (maybe next bird I might) is it that tough to do and how do you cook him?Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
Thanks
I find it easy however been doing it forever. Wet method just like a chicken. For me its the best way to maximize utilization of the bird. Once the bird is plucked do make sure the feet are well scalded too which makes peeling off the outer skin/scale easy. To process the bird I break it down. Breast comes off skinless to use as cutlets much like you do already. Thighs with the skin comes off to use as a pot roast. Drumsticks can go either in the stock pot if I'm in the mode for a meatier soup or can be used in a pulled turkey recipe. Heart, stomach, and liver is recovered. Liver I'm not a fan of but dad likes it. The Heart and stomach are braised and used in a fine risotto recipe made with the turkey stock. Into the stock pot goes the neck, carcass including the wings, feet, and skin including that jelly mass around the crop.Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
Basically just the head and toe nails end up getting tossed. Waste not want not.
Frank...dry plucking is the easiest and cleanest. Do it when the carcass is still warm and the feathers come out easy. Pull down in small clumps....don't try to big a handfull or you'll tear the skin. The wings feathers are hard to do, so I just cut off the wings at the first knuckle and don't bother plucking them.Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
It's a lot less messy when the feathers stay dry. Just throw them in a garbage can beside the table. A few fly away but I see other birds use them to build their nest with.
It takes me 10-15 minutes to do a 20 lb Tom..usually done in the time it would take to boil a pot of water. Carcass still warm when I'm finished.
Spice rub the bird, stuff if desired, then put the bird in one of those 'Oven Bags' you see at the grocery store. Cook slow, low heat (320-350) and use a meat thermometer to test when done.
I might give this a try this fall if I connect with a bird, I like the idea of leaving the mess in the bush :) .....Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Thanks for the reply..... I am not so sure I can keep/cook the heart, stomach or liver though... :(Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
How long have elephants been killed for their tusks?Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/african...e-of-poaching/
Don't know as I don't hunt elephant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
You can not extrapolate the causal effect between elephants and turkeys. First have to determine if a population of true beardless toms exist. At the moment don't even know if this genetic trait exist.
I know of people seeing bearded Toms, there is a picture here of one that is essentially beardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
If there is 1 that has no beard then it is a genetic trait that can be passed down, no different than a bearded hen will pass down the genetic trait to their offspring.
No what we have here is what appears to be a visibly beardless tom to which cause unknown. You can see in my picture what at a distance it appeared to be a beardless tom on closer inspection I could identify a beard. Once processed can clearly see its a bearded tom in which the beard has been compromised. To be a genetic beardless tom that stump would need to be missing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
I’ve seen thousands of turkeys, bearded hens are pretty common. I’ve yet to see a beardless gobbler. I’ve seen a few with beard rot that leaves just enough beard to poke out through the breast feathers. I don’t think there is any concern with gobbler’s genetics being altered because bearded birds get shot, any time soon !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
That is for sure.......Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles