Cleaning a Carb

So here is a good example of what could happen when you store a gas machine for several years without draining the carbs. This is from a Kawasaki 250R (Baby Ninja).

I have soaked it in sea foam and carb cleaner, but I think I will need to use tougher measure and pour boiling water and vinegar to let it soak. Don't think I can actually boil the carb in the house as the wife didn't seem to fond of the idea so hopefully boiling water will do and let it soak for a few days.

This is what the carb looked like when I opened the first float. Probably the worse I have ever seen. In fact the two lower jets are stuck in so I am hoping this will help loosen them. Even the float needles were gunked in.

Unless your part mechanic don't let your machines set for several years without draining the carb or using a fuel stabilizer my preference is sea foam.

Even thought I only store the ATV for the winter I add a stabliizer. The estimated price if I took the motorcycle to the shop and told them to take it out and fix it is approx 1000.00.

I always found that naphtha was a good carb cleaner

That is nasty !! When I was a kid, we built dune buggies out of Volkswagens. We used to boil dirty carbs in janitor in a drum..... worked great. I don’t know if it’s even available now.....

Yeah poured that in as well, just now.

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Originally Posted by Sam Menard

I always found that naphtha was a good carb cleaner

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Never heard of a janitor in a drum? But wife said I can't use the big pot for boiling motorcycle parts in.
So all I can do is boil water and mix it with vinegar and pour it over the carb then let it soak for a few days. I don't know if I boil it while she is gone will it leave anything in the pot like a stain that she would notice?

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

That is nasty !! When I was a kid, we built dune buggies out of Volkswagens. We used to boil dirty carbs in janitor in a drum..... worked great. I don’t know if it’s even available now.....

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About wife ...
I dare to heat treat wood blank for my knife in her oven in the kitchen ... Only once ... For obvious reason....
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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Unless your part mechanic don't let your machines set for several years without draining the carb or using a fuel stabilizer my preference is sea foam.

Even thought I only store the ATV for the winter I add a stabliizer. The estimated price if I took the motorcycle to the shop and told them to take it out and fix it is approx 1000.00.

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If it was affordable, an ultrasonic cleaner would be the answer. That not being so, I would take out all the plastic and rubber parts and soak it in a covered acetone container outside for at least a couple days.
The last thing I would ever do is store gas with a stabilizer in a motor. I don't care what anyone says about storing carbs dry, they don't gum up that way.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Never heard of a janitor in a drum? But wife said I can't use the big pot for boiling motorcycle parts in.
So all I can do is boil water and mix it with vinegar and pour it over the carb then let it soak for a few days. I don't know if I boil it while she is gone will it leave anything in the pot like a stain that she would notice?

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Probably ! I wouldn’t use a good pot ...

Your buying a new carb..

Oh I will fix it. It will just take time. I got everything else apart. But I do think I will replace all 4 jets and one float needle. I think they are done.

If it is fixed I could afford to drive down to your neck of the woods to go hunting. Have to find something to hunt in the warm weather.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Your buying a new carb..

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I can remember when it was suggested to use Easy Off oven cleaner on carbs back before it became more environmentally friendly.
Good luck with that one, patience will be your best tool I think.

Pretty sure the mechs used to soak carbs like that in a bath of hydrochloric acid....Drain cleaner.. for 15 minutes.

I'd be really careful using anything acidic as it will remove the surface of the body housing. Take the advice of the vintage car restorers/hot rodders and old tractor restorers. Google it and you'll see tons of advice. PineSol mixed with a bit of Dawn dish soap in an ultrasonic cleaner is the preferred way of a friend of mine that does vintage Mopar and UK motorbikes. You can do a full immersion this way on unstripped carbs and it won't eat the rubber or plastic parts. If you can strip all the plastic and rubber, then a MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) soak will clean anything. Laquer thinner is a second best. Just be careful these two products are nasty. Gotta avoid all skin contact, breathing fumes, etc. You can also get cleaners like Gunk carb cleaner at most auto stores. If you don't want to spend 200 bucks on an ultrasonic cleaner from EBay then call any auto or motorcycle/chainsaw repair shop and ask how much it is to get it ultrasonically cleaned. Shouldn't be much, If you want to do it on the cheap and assuming you can't strip the plastic/rubber:
Immerse the entire thing in a bucket of PineSol with almost boiling water so that the carb is just covered. Pick up the bucket by the handle and agitate the buck for 15 mins. Leave it to soak overnight then another agitation in the morning. Rinse the piss out of it under warm water. You could prob even gently power wash it. You should be able to strip the carb now. Blast out with compressed air then if it was me I'd take it to be ultrasonically cleaned. Otherwise buy something like MEK or commercial carb cleaner and do it yourself . Get a carb rebuild kit to put it back together (new rubber seals, needle valves, jets).

Will try it tonight.

What’s a new carb worth?

Not sure probably 500.00

I know the complete carb kit is 100.00. I'm just buying the parts I need.

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Originally Posted by terrym

What’s a new carb worth?

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Not sure probably 500.00

I know the complete carb kit is 100.00. I'm just buying the parts I need.

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Check Amazon. I think you’ll be surprised.

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Originally Posted by terrym

Check Amazon. I think you’ll be surprised.

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I was looking up a carb kit for my old Yamaha Moto 4, found a complete replacement carb for about $50 more than the rebuild kit. Took a chance, its been working fine for two years. Still have the old one just in case!

No I checked they didn't have it the kits are about the same price on there. I am just going to buy the two of each low and high Jets and 2 float needles. Assuming I can get the two low jets out and I will.

Two many projects on the go. Moving some firewood each day from the barn to the house (in my new shed), waiting for chainsaw parts and just ordered a new carb for a Honda Generator I was giving that needs a carb and a tank.

Plus a patio door waiting for me and a buddy to install and 2 windows someone else is suppose to install.

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Originally Posted by warpipe

I was looking up a carb kit for my old Yamaha Moto 4, found a complete replacement carb for about $50 more than the rebuild kit. Took a chance, its been working fine for two years. Still have the old one just in case!

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In the future use ethanol free gas in small engines. Can't promise it won't EVER cause a problem but it will store much longer than anything with ethanol in it. The carb in my Briggs & Stratton generator was ruined in 2 seasons because of ethanol. I was running it about every other month for 1/2 hour in the hope of keeping it tuned.

If equipment is maintained you should not have a problem with ethanol. I run the cheap gas in all of my equipment. But except for the snow blower and lawn tractor I start all my equipment throughout the year. I also add a fuel stabilizer to all my equipment such as my generator. My generator since I rarely need it I pull it out 2 - 3 times a year and run it for several hours. I also run seafoam through all of my equipment on a regular basis and all my gas in storage about 90 liters is stored with added sea foam.

If you are storing equipment always best to store it with the carb empty of fuel. I usually shut off the fuel source and run the carbs dry.

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Originally Posted by Stu

In the future use ethanol free gas in small engines. Can't promise it won't EVER cause a problem but it will store much longer than anything with ethanol in it. The carb in my Briggs & Stratton generator was ruined in 2 seasons because of ethanol. I was running it about every other month for 1/2 hour in the hope of keeping it tuned.

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Originally Posted by Stu

In the future use ethanol free gas in small engines. Can't promise it won't EVER cause a problem but it will store much longer than anything with ethanol in it. The carb in my Briggs & Stratton generator was ruined in 2 seasons because of ethanol. I was running it about every other month for 1/2 hour in the hope of keeping it tuned.

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Many moons ago a wise old mech told me that ....always burn 'super' gas in small engines. It was reiterated when I bought my first Stihl chainsaw...the dealer told me to always burn super. Got in the habit of always doing that.

Yes it does make a difference, especially with chainsaws.

When I buy gas I have also got in the habit of adding the stabilizer to it in the Jerrycan. Mix it once and never have to remember to do it as I use it.

The debate on whether to store a wet or dry carb still continues today. I always used to do the same as GW and run the carb dry with fuel that had stabilizer in it. I was then told by both mechanics at Yamaha, Stihl, and Husky that this is a no-no. They said dry storage will do more damage by allowing all your gaskets and seals (some of the new chainsaw carbs are full of rubber) to dry out and deteriorate. I checked the owners manuals for some brand new Yamaha outboards at work and it also says to store the fuel system wet.
I've been doing the following for about 10 years now and haven't had a carb issue since:
outboards - I run a 10micron water separator filter on them, even the small kicker motors. I still run reg. UL through them but always make sure my tank is full if the boat is going to sit (stops phase separation on ethanol fuel). For winter storage I mix up a small amount of either Yamamlube stabilizer or SeaFoam. Run the motor for 10 mins then kill it. I purge the old gas out of the fuel line. Leave the carb wet and use storage seal spray in the spark plug holes. Come spring - add new gas and usually first or second pull it goes. I then replace the water sep. filter once the new gas is in the system.
Chainsaws and brush saws- I've had nightmare carb issues with the new saws since the emission standards have changed. I now only burn ethanol free super. I run sea foam or yamalube conditioner through it before long period storage and leave tank full. Buy fresh gas in small amounts and don't use anything that's older than 4 months old. So far so good. God help us if we go to E15 fuel. I'll probably start using the premixed $$$$ bottled gas.

Carb is soaking now. Will let it soak until Friday and since I am going away Friday. I will add fresh hot water and vinegar and soak again until I come back on Sunday.

For anyone interested, PA has an ultrasonic cleaning machine on sale for $99. good for doing small weapons parts too.

Yeah for me that would be a nice to have. I am slowly getting to the point of hating to repair stuff anymore. I no longer do the work on the wife's car I take it to the Mechanic and my truck sometimes goes to the mechanic. I just work on my car and small equipment and once my stuff is working any usually runs for a long time. The only thing excluding the Bike not working 100% is the chainsaw and those parts are order. I was tempted to just buy another one, but I want to fix it. Also have to repair rear brake on ATV.

I am slowly buying spare equipment before I retire down the road even spare boots and shoes so another chainsaw might not be far off I even have a spare car repaired the wife's old car so when mine dies I still have another one also have a spare generator I am rebuilding..

Crap I have two many things to fix.

But I have the carb soaking right now

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Originally Posted by Fisherman

For anyone interested, PA has an ultrasonic cleaning machine on sale for $99. good for doing small weapons parts too.

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Got the two last jets out just now.

Will buy the new Jets and float needles tomorrow or next week. (going camping Friday)

Well those parts were some expensive, but I cleaned all the parts nicely I have on order the Float Needle which should come in next week sometime, So I figure I should have it back together on maybe Canada Day (I will be away Camping before that up North). That little needle cost a pretty penny of 40 bucks. I probably should have replaced 1 diaphragm but I think it's OK that would have been 80 bucks. But if I need to replace it later it's an easy part to get at, so not a big deal.

A friend has a new unused back tire he thinks will fit as well. Once I get it working I need to adjust the clutch and the brake.

Small victories. Take them when you can..

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Pretty sure the mechs used to soak carbs like that in a bath of hydrochloric acid....Drain cleaner.. for 15 minutes.

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Most drain cleaning chemicals are actually strong bases not acids. Typically sodium hydroxide (lye) based. There are acid based cleaners available but they are usually sulfuric acid based not hydrochloric acid. Not sure whether a lye base opener would work or not. If you use an acid based product you have to be very careful as the acid will produce explosive hydrogen gas when in contact with most types of metal.

Got the bike running now. But not idling well enough. I think I should have popped the caps to get at the two jets that are hidden like the Russian on youtube said to do. They are probably all gunked up as well. running seafoam throug the bike as well so that also probably makes it hard to control idle as well.

Finally think I might have it running OK now. I can get it to idle pretty good. I had a problem with some varnish of old gas in the tank so I bought a bag of filters. A piece of something got into the float needle and kept the float open and gas went into the carb and engine, so I had to pull the carb. We tested yesterday and it was running but we didn't have the throttle cables properly adjusted. Seems to running fine but also seems to require quite a bit of cranking to start and I put in new plugs. So need to figure that out now.

Took the bike for a test ride this evening runs good when driving but idles low after driving and I stop and place in Neutral, but when I start it again it idles to high. Not sure what that means yet.

I just looked at your picture on the original post, that looks identical to the carb on my former klx 250(single carb) so on the underside in front of the float bowl there are idle mixture screws covered by a small aluminum plug from the factory. If you do some googling, these are commonly removed to solve hard starting and a number of other problems with the emissions friendly factory idle mixture. I would imagine there could be something restricting that circuit causing the strange idle and hard starting.

You are correct and I have both read that and watched it on youtube. I didn't pop the caps off and adjust them. I might yet. I have been driving it in the back yard and twice down the street testing seems to be running better. But I might once more pull the carb as I do want it running as best I can do. Going to take it for a few short rips tomorrow 1/2 km down the road.

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Originally Posted by dean.f

I just looked at your picture on the original post, that looks identical to the carb on my former klx 250(single carb) so on the underside in front of the float bowl there are idle mixture screws covered by a small aluminum plug from the factory. If you do some googling, these are commonly removed to solve hard starting and a number of other problems with the emissions friendly factory idle mixture. I would imagine there could be something restricting that circuit causing the strange idle and hard starting.

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