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Brian McCrostie took this photo of a sign near the Port of Orillia, near Couchiching Beach Park, showing rates for the use by locals and non-locals. How do you feel about charging visitors to use facilities? Share your thoughts here.
Attachment 40614
Not happy about it at all.......... This is total BS.............. A form of price gouging which if it is not, should be illegal...........
If they've posted a public launch,it's illegal. If it's private property,they can charge whatever they want. I have no doubt that this conduct will,at some point,come back to bite them on the arse.
Hey Trimmer, the launch discussed is operated by the Town of Orillia. An updated list of open ramps can be found here: https://www.ofah.org/covid19closures/
This is how Georgina Township operates ramps and beaches, without the gouging I believe it's only $20 to park for the day including ramp/ beach use.(free to residents). The fee is to help cover the cost of the facilities provided which includes decent washrooms and garbage disposal. I think gouging $100 to access any public land is ridiculous.
I'm sure residents of Orillia visit the the gta on a daily basis for employment or goods and services without being targeted. I can understand safety measures like masks , distancing, limiting numbers on beaches etc. Targeted price gouging is unprincipled. I suppose their new tourism strategy is your welcome as long as you have lots of money and are willing to be fleeced.
Barrie is the same , they say it is to deter the outta towners. They don't want the over crowd of people gathering all over the beaches. I live on simcoe the east side and traffic has still been extremely heavy every since the beginning every weekend.
I am enjoying the quiet beaches all over northern Ontario right now ,not like back at home . Left Monday have enjoyed 3 different lakes have 2 more to go in kakabeka now superior tomorrow [emoji106]..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood
Sounds peaceful and incredible. Just curious, how would you say the traffic you're seeing compares to a regular summer?
Surely these beaches and ramps had overcrowding at peak times before covid 19, just maybe not to the same extent?
In my area I'd say the ramp traffic is double what I would normally see but I believe that might be linked to the beach closures because driving past the vacant beaches you can see what looks like hundreds of watercraft of all types and sizes anchored just offshore. Typically our beaches are very crowded all summer I almost never use them even though resident's pass gives free access. Rather take my boat to a nice spot for a swim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Lyle
Most of the beaches were closed until a few weeks ago some opened in stage 2 . The beaches on the east side were still closed last week the were thinking of opening up one of them as a test in york region. Beaverton opened theirs but again residents only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Lyle
We live on lake ridge rd and 48 every long weekend traffic is stopped a few kms away from the lights. This year some weekends looks like long weekends. Many people were still out and about on the weekends so bad we still avoid going out on the weekends. We see all the traffic 48 heading north every weekend. Sibalds has been a right off every weekend so bad traffic is backed up 48 cops are shutting the rd down several times a day on the weekends.
Being so close to the city it gets very busy. Have learned over the years to head south on Friday and north on Sunday if not your just mixed in with the city traffic bumper to bumper.
It's getting busy now even in wawa lol. In 20 deep in line to get in to value mart for some dinner and more supplies.
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This has also been going on in Innisfil for years.
Residents free but visitors get screwed.
But they have no problem accepting both Federal and Provincial money to maintain the resources.
Where I live things like this are free or if a fee is charged it's the same for locals and visitors alike.
Most ramps are owned and maintained by the municipality , money from the local Home taxes. (nothing federal or provincial)Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsman
Charging a 'user fee' for people who do not live in the municipality makes good business sense.
Why should it be FREE if you don't live there ?
Because it's just the right thing to do......Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
A lot of these ramps were free at one time but overcrowding and people leaving garbage and parking in places that annoyed locals leads to complaints, we all know how that turns out.... the ramp by my place was free up until a couple years ago but the park being swarmed leaving no place for taxpayers to enjoy the waterfront brought the pay system around. I'm free to use it but I'd rather pay $15 at the private ramp to save the headaches.
I don't have an issue with a small charge for general upkeep (like $10),but,$150 is outrageous. The fees are designed to discourage out-of-towners. That's just wrong,being discriminatory,notwithstanding. I hope they get screwed over,themselves,in the long run.Quote:
Originally Posted by dean.f
I think any charge that's out of line with private ramps is totally unacceptable. They hold the resource hostage in a sense by controlling access. Like you said a small charge makes sense but 100+ is ridiculous. I just wanted to underline the reasoning for Township fees. I use ramps and parks in other townships so I expect people can do the same here without being gouged.
Barrie is broke the mayor still needs more gold chains, he can still stand up while wherein all that bling. [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji2958]
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It's good you said most.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
But very many fall under the local Parks and Recreation Dept.
And yes many different local Parks and Recreation Dept.'s do receive funding from both Provincial and Federal governments.
This is the area I have been talking about.
https://www.yorkregion.com/news-stor...reaking-rules/
I just returned from a week long rd trip and Holmes piont is now closed off . Ran into town for a pizza and noticed it tonight rds pyloned off and a big sign that said no parking and something about the water front didn't catch all the message.
Will be by again in the morning.
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They've had full time police/ bylaw officers guarding the beaches every weekend for the past couple months. The last time I took a ride down Holmes point road the bylaw guys were ushering people attempting to stop. Most of the problems mentioned in the article happen during a regular summer,I can only imagine what it's like now. Park rd was an absolute nightmare Saturday morning with OPP directing traffic with the closure at 48 yet people were sneaking around hedge road and pulling a u turn to line up for Sibbald.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood
Park rd has been a mess every weekend and yes many rd closed off including park rd at 48. Some lady also went crazy there last month stabbing several people at sibalds its about 10 minute drive away for me . Before we left I noticedQuote:
Originally Posted by dean.f
Many rds blocked off in willow last week .
I never met an a hole all week until I was closer to home on Saturday. Some big mob came into a park and took up all the spots acted like they own the place . Even when I said hi they just looked at me like I was a piece of crap. They were definitely from the city lol.
I'm more than happy to stay away from the city I wont go there lol.
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Imagine the out rage if they charged Barrie/innisfil commuters to Toronto 10x the taxes to use the 400 10x per week. There's no real difference when charging 10x the ramp fee.
The funny thing is, likely a lot of the tax dollars that pay for public ramps in Georgina/Innisfil and beyond are dollars earned from industry in the city. I know that's where I work. That highway south isn't packed with the unemployed every morning I'll bet.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveBates
Again...provincial highways are built with provincial Taxes...Municipal ramps are built with local taxes. Big difference. If you use provincial ramps, like in a provincial park everyone pays the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveBates
Put yourself in the shoes of a ‘local’..how would you feel if you headed down to your towns ramp Sat morning and the parking lot was full of cars/trailers from the out of towners and you couldn’t launch. YOU paid for the facility, they didn’t.
Even if the locals are required to pay a user fee...the out of towners should be paying an additional amount to offset the costs covered by the local taxes.
If we weren't under the Emergency Act, I'd be willing to bet that they're violating the Canadian Navigable Waters Act. At least the disportionate fee restrictions would be.
Parking is one thing but your right to navigable waters through public access across Canada is now protected under the new Act. It's a new Federal Act that helps protect all Canadians rights to access regardless of where you live in the country.
There's nothing in the Act that allows for differentiating restrictions between Canadians for access. Except for some indigenous exemptions, we're to have equal access.
Any new obstruction that prevents Canadians from navigable waters, whether by land or by water now requires approval from Transport Canada. Any previously existing obstructions can be reviewed and dealt with on a case by case basis through their complaint process. This Act comes with some teeth for Canadians to use as enforcement to protect equal access and open up previously restricted access.
Look up the act and gov't website below, particularly the mission statements on the purpose of changing the Act.
The Act is there to prevent things just like this.
With this Emergency Act still in place, there are allowances for Government restrictions for safety reason like the spread of covid, but once it's over, I think the Navigable Waters Act is in play for the people to use against these Townships.
They're essentially creating an obstruction through a disportionate monetary fee based on your residency. For some Canadians, that'll mean it prevents them from accessing completely, which obviously goes against the purpose of the Act.
It's worth a call to Transport Canada at the end of this State of Emergency if you're still being affected.
https://www.canada.ca/en/services/en...guidebook.html
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/n-22/
Put yourself as a local and look down the street and see people from the big city parking and shopping in your stores spending their money in your community... Maybe they should charge more in the local shops to keep them away from shopping too.......(sarcasm)Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
If your all butt hurt about it just go where your more welcome.
In simple words I am not aloud to use the beach just 8 minutes north of me . I shop there I buy gas there and I am not allowed to use the beach. But I will suck it up and go elsewhere . The beach that is only 400 yards away is again Durham I am a Yorker off limits to me.
So suck it up many are feeling the pinch not just the city folks. Being so close to heavy populated areas will have it's downfalls in times like these.
Didn't anyones parents ever talk about these pandemics growing up? My mom always feared of a nasty bug or the plague leaking from a lab. It was bound to happen she said it 20 years ago when we talked about all the labs growing up. Only takes 1 f up to wipe out most of the planets population.
Guess we are all lucky it's not any worse.
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From my experience, the only way to make a change in anything pretty much is to confront (fight) it..... If you don't talk about it, change usually doesn't take place, or takes place slowly..... So I guess what I am saying, if it never gets talked about (challenged) it makes it acceptable.....Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood
I get it... was just joining in the conversation:) I don't use ramps anymore, I pretty much fish my own lake these days. I'll just step to the side again......Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I live right on the border of the big city. Close to the first beach outside the city limits. Different tax base. So how many people from T.O. do you think visit their next door neighbors beautiful beach? No charge!Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Heck of a stretch your trying to make...just because YOU can't afford the set user fee...it's not an obstruction as defined by the act. If the guy behind you is willing to 'pay to play' he can launch unobstructed.Quote:
Originally Posted by onelessarrow
The definition of 'obstruction' from the act:
Quote:
obstruction means any thing, including a vessel that is left anchored, moored or adrift or a wreck, that obstructs or impedes navigation or renders it more difficult or dangerous, but does not include a thing of natural origin unless a person causes the thing of natural origin to obstruct or impede navigation or to render it more difficult or dangerous.
Every municipality in Ontario has the right to charge or not charge a user fee. Looks like yours doesn't...but from what I have read on here there are some that do.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Many will pay many wont.
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The simple sign that was posted is an obstruction.
The signs in the parking lot its not obstructing the ramp [emoji2958][emoji1787].Quote:
Originally Posted by onelessarrow
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Whether the sign says no trespassing or 50 dollars entry fee it's an obstruction.
Seems the only real obstruction is the grip on your wallet Haha..Quote:
Originally Posted by onelessarrow
I forgot to mention that our Township fees are not for the facility use specifically but for adjacent parking, if you are willing to walk about half a kilometre you can use the ramp and beach (pre Covid) for free. Which many people do.
I Just found out that the CNWA mandate does not cover fees at boat launches. So ya it was a bit of a stretch. HahaQuote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Not looking to open up a new wound on this but now that we are well past covid-19 restrictions that may have been the reason for this excessive ramp/parking fee in Orillia, any chance that they have reduced the fees to a more reasonable level?
I was there a few weeks ago, the town ramp is free. Lots of construction though so follow the detour signs.
Great stuff Dean.f. I was looking to maybe head up there this weekend for a final trip out on the water before I put the boat away for the season. Thanks!