Radios to Communicate with Hunting Party

Hey All,

I'm looking for information for what other gangs have done for communicating during a party moose hunt. We have a group of guys heading north and will not have cell phone range. What is the best way to go? 2-way Radio, Spot X messanger, IN-Reach GPS, carrier pigeon?

Please let me know what your gang uses for northern ontario trips.

I'm leaning towards a good set of 2-way radios ... they say a range of 51 km ... but I'm guessing across water, not in the bush, or logging roads and cuts.

Cheers,

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Originally Posted by Hunterrev

Hey All,

I'm looking for information for what other gangs have done for communicating during a party moose hunt. We have a group of guys heading north and will not have cell phone range. What is the best way to go? 2-way Radio, Spot X messanger, IN-Reach GPS, carrier pigeon?

Please let me know what your gang uses for northern ontario trips.

I'm leaning towards a good set of 2-way radios ... they say a range of 51 km ... but I'm guessing across water, not in the bush, or logging roads and cuts.

Cheers,

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You're right about the 51km range, that would be if both of you were standing on mountain tops with absolutely no obstructions, (line of sight). Most of the GMRS versions might(and that's hoping a lot) you might get 3-4 kms. Some of the other higher power versions, (Baofeng 8 series) have up to 8 watts output and you might go 8km or so.

I use a pair of Cobra's they have some other letter on them GMRS may be a model, not sure.
I find they have a range of approx. 4-5 km in the area we hunt, hills and woods, may have more range but have not tried further..
They hold a charge for 4-5 days without recharge. Light and sound clear. No complaints.
Got them at the Source, but do not remember the cost.

We still carry radios, but ever since they put a tower in Folyet, we mostly txt on our phones now. Nothing worse than a deer coming in to range...and shhppsshhbhh "I'm heading to camp for a crap....over " sphhhhphhb

Creating a group chat via text/WhatsApp is useful and helps pass the time over a long post, rather then sending individually messages

5watt marine radios from the US. We've had them for about 10 years, works better than ones you get in Canada, Just like everything else!

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by SongDog

5watt marine radios from the US. We've had them for about 10 years, works better than ones you get in Canada, Just like everything else!

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

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We looked into using them, but we abandoned that idea when we found out they were illegal to use on land without a licence.....

Just wondering what the max distance between party hunters usually is? Let's say if I was hunting Caramat, and my brother was hunting Newfoundland, and we had good Sat Radios, Is that party hunting?
Let's be real, most cheap GMRS radios are good for a couple of kilometers. Are you farther apart than that?

There are too many variables with GMRS radios. They are pretty much line of sight. We have checked our comms and they work perfectly, only to have them fail another day. Our group set up signal shots as well to back up the radios. It’s worked so far !!

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

We looked into using them, but we abandoned that idea when we found out they were illegal to use on land without a licence.....

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There are VHF radios you can buy that will allow you to use public frequencies.
But the two main problems are.
1) They are mobile unit for vehicles, I have not yet found any hand held ones.

2) You must only use the frequency that is allowed in the area you are in. Because the others can cause interfere or have been licensed ( sold to someone) to private companies or assigned to government departments like Highway Maintenance, MNRF, Ontario Hydro in the area you are in.

When a frequency is ok or not ok for you to use can change as simply as being on the North or South side of the French river.

So FRS/GMRS radio would be far better in 99% of cases.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

There are VHF radios you can buy that will allow you to use public frequencies.
But the two main problems are.
1) They are mobile unit for vehicles, I have not yet found any hand held ones.

2) You must only use the frequency that is allowed in the area you are in. Because the others can cause interfere or have been licensed ( sold to someone) to private companies or assigned to government departments like Highway Maintenance, MNRF, Ontario Hydro in the area you are in.

When a frequency is ok or not ok for you to use can change as simply as being on the North or South side of the French river.

So FRS/GMRS radio would be far better in 99% of cases.

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Yes, we were specifically talking about the 5w Marine radios. Those are illegal to use on land. Our trucks do have radios that operate on frequencies assigned to loggers. Helps out a lot when dodging loaded pulp trucks coming in and out of areas we hunt..but you are right, we have yet to find portables with those frequencies.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Yes, we were specifically talking about the 5w Marine radios. Those are illegal to use on land. Our trucks do have radios that operate on frequencies assigned to loggers. Helps out a lot when dodging loaded pulp trucks coming in and out of areas we hunt..but you are right, we have yet to find portables with those frequencies.

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If you just need to hear where the trucks are a hand held scanner works..If you know the frequency.

I can get hand held radios that will work on those frequencies but they are not type approved. They also cost way more then the a set of frs/gmrs. You also have to have programming software in some cases..

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Originally Posted by TroutSlayer

Just wondering what the max distance between party hunters usually is? Let's say if I was hunting Caramat, and my brother was hunting Newfoundland, and we had good Sat Radios, Is that party hunting?
Let's be real, most cheap GMRS radios are good for a couple of kilometers. Are you farther apart than that?

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We will be hunting cuts where there is no cell phone reception, north of Long Lac. Only two trucks with three ATV's and two canoes, so we will not be out of range to hear each party shoot. I'm sure the GMRS radios would work just fine, was wondering about the Spot X also, to send a message home or in case of emergencies also.

I think we'll invest in a good set of radios and go from there.

We have a Bull and a Cow tag!

When we moose hunted in the north one of our group rented radios, from where I don't know. He rented enough so everybody got their own for the week.

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Originally Posted by Hunterrev

We will be hunting cuts where there is no cell phone reception, north of Long Lac. Only two trucks with three ATV's and two canoes, so we will not be out of range to hear each party shoot. I'm sure the GMRS radios would work just fine, was wondering about the Spot X also, to send a message home or in case of emergencies also.

I think we'll invest in a good set of radios and go from there.

We have a Bull and a Cow tag!

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Just for your info, Spot X messenger is now on sale at Cabelas, $100 off.

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Originally Posted by Hunterrev

We will be hunting cuts where there is no cell phone reception, north of Long Lac. Only two trucks with three ATV's and two canoes, so we will not be out of range to hear each party shoot. I'm sure the GMRS radios would work just fine, was wondering about the Spot X also, to send a message home or in case of emergencies also.

I think we'll invest in a good set of radios and go from there.

We have a Bull and a Cow tag!

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You have a plan. Hint get radios that will use headset and boom mic. All wired no Bluetooth. For the xspot an old phone with no sim is all you need.

Make sure everyone knows where it is and how to use the xspot.

Was on a fly in fishing trip a couple weeks ago and the outfitter supplied us with a spot x. It was nice to communicate with family but I wouldn't want to use it for party hunting. Because it works off satellite, it may take up to 15 minutes to send and maybe the same to receive a message. Not good if theres lots of animals around.

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Originally Posted by TroutSlayer

Just wondering what the max distance between party hunters usually is? Let's say if I was hunting Caramat, and my brother was hunting Newfoundland, and we had good Sat Radios, Is that party hunting?
Let's be real, most cheap GMRS radios are good for a couple of kilometers. Are you farther apart than that?

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From the hunting regs:

All members of the party must hunt
together in the same Wildlife Management
Unit or portion thereof, for which the tag
is valid.
• Each member of the party must hunt
within 5 kilometres of the person who
holds the tag that is valid for the wildlife
being hunted.
• Each member of the party must be able to
reliably and immediately communicate with
other members of the party.

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Originally Posted by delmer

From the hunting regs:

All members of the party must hunt
together in the same Wildlife Management
Unit or portion thereof, for which the tag
is valid.
• Each member of the party must hunt
within 5 kilometres of the person who
holds the tag that is valid for the wildlife
being hunted.
• Each member of the party must be able to
reliably and immediately communicate with
other members of the party.

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The problem is that well the regulations may say 5 km, it is not practical with most hand held radios. You and I may be able to talk to Troutslayer across a valley, but at the same time not hear each other 300 yards apart .

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

The problem is that well the regulations may say 5 km, it is not practical with most hand held radios. You and I may be able to talk to Troutslayer across a valley, but at the same time not hear each other 300 yards apart .

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That’s why we back up with signal shots....

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

That’s why we back up with signal shots....

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Still is not a guaranteed method, but one way.

If you hear a shot in the general area where your group is hunting, you have to assume it’s one of your group member that shot. Radio or not, you need to confirm before anyone in the group shoots another.

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Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

If you hear a shot in the general area where your group is hunting, you have to assume it’s one of your group member that shot. Radio or not, you need to confirm before anyone in the group shoots another.

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Exactly, I was watching a big bull coming towards my call, when one of our guys shot in the next block. I had a good shot at this bull but obviously held off. Next I heard the signal shots for a bull, and we were done....the radios lit up at the same time. We only turn them on when we hear a shot.
You just have to be careful ....still, chit happens !!
I heard of a group, one member shot at a bull, goes and checks, tells his group that he missed... well, another guy shot a bull. The first guy did more checking and found the first bull.....oops !
They self reported and paid a 400$ fine....

Count another vote for Midland Cobra. Our crew used them for years and were never let down. We had 10 hunters spread out over swamps and across mountains 8km long. The downside was that hunters on the far ends couldn't hear shots fired at the ends. We used a relay system with tag holders on the center watches which worked quite well. As Rick mentioned,we had several close calls over the years. Rapid communication made for no screw ups.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Count another vote for Midland Cobra. Our crew used them for years and were never let down. We had 10 hunters spread out over swamps and across mountains 8km long. The downside was that hunters on the far ends couldn't hear shots fired at the ends. We used a relay system with tag holders on the center watches which worked quite well. As Rick mentioned,we had several close calls over the years. Rapid communication made for no screw ups.

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Yep, the relay system is the way to go. Two party members might not be able to hear each other, but as long as a message can be relayed throughout the group you can minimize your chances at a mistake. On a windy day in open cuts, shots can go unheard from relatively close distances. It's a good idea for everyone to check in as quietly as possible once you're set up so you can determine whether or not you need to relay a message if there's shooting.

The closest we ever came to an "oops" was when one particular member of the group who "doesn't like radios" shot a small bull at first light on opening day. We knew the shot came from close enough to be our group, and as we frantically tried to get some information from the guy who did the shooting (we assumed), a much bigger bull walked out in front of my brother. He had the good sense to lay off the trigger until the guy finally let us know what was happening, but it was close. Turns out the guy had the bull down from the moment he shot, but had other moose in the area (that we did not have tags for) that he didn't want to spook by getting on the radio. Probably a 20 minute window from the time he shot until he let us know. Needless to say, we don't hunt with him anymore.

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If you are looking at those 2 way radios from Canadian Tire, walmart etc, I have owned almost all of them and none work very well. I live on a road that fits the ideal conditions list on the back and my radios are rated for 30 km's we couldn't get past 3 km's. You need 5 watts at the minimum and the only thing available in Canada are Marine radios.

Having a few different options( listen for signal shots, Radios, smoke signals what ever) and common sense is the best way to avoid an oops.

If your using radio, be sure people know how to use them. For example Karen is bad for turning the squelch all the way up ( volume and squelch controls on the same shafts) and not being able to hear.

Just a small misplacement of her fingers and she can't hear.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Still is not a guaranteed method, but one way.

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I can attest to this!

I must have flung 30 arrows in the air, nobody came to help.....

I have used the "illegal radios" with good success, I really don't think you need to worry about the feds bothering you up near Longlac.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Hunterrev

We will be hunting cuts where there is no cell phone reception, north of Long Lac. Only two trucks with three ATV's and two canoes, so we will not be out of range to hear each party shoot. I'm sure the GMRS radios would work just fine, was wondering about the Spot X also, to send a message home or in case of emergencies also.

I think we'll invest in a good set of radios and go from there.

We have a Bull and a Cow tag!

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You should be fine with your radios. We have always hunted 21A or 21B and never had a problem with the cheap Cobra radios. We have had a dozen hunters in the Caramat Camp.

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Originally Posted by TroutSlayer

You should be fine with your radios. We have always hunted 21A or 21B and never had a problem with the cheap Cobra radios. We have had a dozen hunters in the Caramat Camp.

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Yup, we hunted 21a also and could definitely get enough range to keep in contact. I want to say 5-8 kms.

As far as gun shots as signals for downed moose could be a no-go.
We had a group of 6-7 hunters,we had radios but had them turned off.We were withing 1 sq km to each other.Max distance was ,maybe 800 m from the two furthest hunters.We had a rhythm set for shots to be fired as signal and everyone knew it..
We had a deal-will turn radios on when signal shots fired ,stop hunting ,and everyone talks.
That was no good for MNR,he said he could charge each hunter (except 2-who had the tags)for poaching,on spot ,for 600$ EACH,and throw the group to the court.Which will be more added $$$.
He said anyone can fire any shots-then what we do....???Kind of special approach.
So,he gave only a warning to us, at the end.Nice guy.

Radios on from that moment.

Of course,as it has to be ,two afternoons later,i worked in a bull,which was coming to my buddy.I leaned on the button of the radio-radio went on-3 other guys called in immediately-who called,why someone called????The air was full of radio voices.
The bull said thank you and good bye.............monster crack behind some trees,few footsteps,and gone.

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Originally Posted by gbk

As far as gun shots as signals for downed moose could be a no-go.
We had a group of 6-7 hunters,we had radios but had them turned off.We were withing 1 sq km to each other.Max distance was ,maybe 800 m from the two furthest hunters.We had a rhythm set for shots to be fired as signal and everyone knew it..
We had a deal-will turn radios on when signal shots fired ,stop hunting ,and everyone talks.
That was no good for MNR,he said he could charge each hunter (except 2-who had the tags)for poaching,on spot ,for 600$ EACH,and throw the group to the court.Which will be more added $$$.
He said anyone can fire any shots-then what we do....???Kind of special approach.
So,he gave only a warning to us, at the end.Nice guy.

Radios on from that moment.

Of course,as it has to be ,two afternoons later,i worked in a bull,which was coming to my buddy.I leaned on the button of the radio-radio went on-3 other guys called in immediately-who called,why someone called????The air was full of radio voices.
The bull said thank you and good bye.............monster crack behind some trees,few footsteps,and gone.

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Exactly why we don’t turn them on until we hear shots. It’s worked well for over 30 years !

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Originally Posted by gbk

As far as gun shots as signals for downed moose could be a no-go.
We had a group of 6-7 hunters,we had radios but had them turned off.We were withing 1 sq km to each other.Max distance was ,maybe 800 m from the two furthest hunters.We had a rhythm set for shots to be fired as signal and everyone knew it..
We had a deal-will turn radios on when signal shots fired ,stop hunting ,and everyone talks.
That was no good for MNR,he said he could charge each hunter (except 2-who had the tags)for poaching,on spot ,for 600$ EACH,and throw the group to the court.Which will be more added $$$.
He said anyone can fire any shots-then what we do....???Kind of special approach.
So,he gave only a warning to us, at the end.Nice guy.

Radios on from that moment.

Of course,as it has to be ,two afternoons later,i worked in a bull,which was coming to my buddy.I leaned on the button of the radio-radio went on-3 other guys called in immediately-who called,why someone called????The air was full of radio voices.
The bull said thank you and good bye.............monster crack behind some trees,few footsteps,and gone.

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Headsets got to have them..

I never liked signal shots as they were not reliable in heavily hunted areas or in windy conditions.

Regarding radios, I find that it’s best to come up with some protocols that everyone can understand and abide by. Ear buds and VOX Mike are good for when on stand.

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Originally Posted by gbk

As far as gun shots as signals for downed moose could be a no-go.
We had a group of 6-7 hunters,we had radios but had them turned off.We were withing 1 sq km to each other.Max distance was ,maybe 800 m from the two furthest hunters.We had a rhythm set for shots to be fired as signal and everyone knew it..
We had a deal-will turn radios on when signal shots fired ,stop hunting ,and everyone talks.
That was no good for MNR,he said he could charge each hunter (except 2-who had the tags)for poaching,on spot ,for 600$ EACH,and throw the group to the court.Which will be more added $$$.
He said anyone can fire any shots-then what we do....???Kind of special approach.
So,he gave only a warning to us, at the end.Nice guy.

Radios on from that moment.

Of course,as it has to be ,two afternoons later,i worked in a bull,which was coming to my buddy.I leaned on the button of the radio-radio went on-3 other guys called in immediately-who called,why someone called????The air was full of radio voices.
The bull said thank you and good bye.............monster crack behind some trees,few footsteps,and gone.

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I think that CO was talking out of his a**. That's why he only gave you a "warning." The FWCA states only that hunters must be able to communicate reliably. It does NOT say how that must be accomplished. You were correct,however,in not arguing with him at the time. That's what courts are for,but,I digress. With our crew,there's several camps around us and all use radios (no cell service). We change our channels every day at breakfast to avoid signal bleed over tipping off our strategy. Ours are always turned on with squelch set med-high to avoid squawks,skip and errant call alarms. Because the other camps use signal shots when they start sweeps across ridgelines or call the crew in for lunch :confused:,it's important to know who fired the shot(s). Leaving radios turned on,but,in quiet mode alleviates the problem.

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Originally Posted by Sam Menard

I never liked signal shots as they were not reliable in heavily hunted areas or in windy conditions.

Regarding radios, I find that it’s best to come up with some protocols that everyone can understand and abide by. Ear buds and VOX Mike are good for when on stand.

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Yes VOX is great till some takes a nap and snores...;)

First, forget about GMRS sort of radio, because of power. Those ones are no moore than 2W output. Get Baofeng UV 9R. They are 8W and around $50. You will have up to 10km peer to peer. If you need 50km range, there are two options:
1. build portable repeater. Instruction is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMkULsNU2_A you woould need to buy a controoller and use 4 radios like Yaesu FT-60R or Baofeng UV 9R which is 3 times cheaper than Yaesu.
2. go HF(high frequency). This will be more expensive. But if you don't have to walk with your radio it will be most reliable option. You have to get a HAM radio license to operate on HF. Or you can use mix, handhelds to communicate within 5-8km and HF for loonger distances.

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Originally Posted by isartw

First, forget about GMRS sort of radio, because of power. Those ones are no moore than 2W output. Get Baofeng UV 9R. They are 8W and around $50. You will have up to 10km peer to peer. If you need 50km range, there are two options:
1. build portable repeater. Instruction is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMkULsNU2_A you woould need to buy a controoller and use 4 radios like Yaesu FT-60R or Baofeng UV 9R which is 3 times cheaper than Yaesu.
2. go HF(high frequency). This will be more expensive. But if you don't have to walk with your radio it will be most reliable option. You have to get a HAM radio license to operate on HF. Or you can use mix, handhelds to communicate within 5-8km and HF for loonger distances.

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Does everyone in your Group hold a minimum of a BASIC Class Amateur Radio?

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Does everyone in your Group hold a minimum of a BASIC Class Amateur Radio?

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Technically, you can use those Baofeng UV 9R radios within GMRS 462-467MHz but with Basic license, you can use 2M band and HF. It's not rocket science anymore since Morse code requirement lifted off and it's a one-time fee, you don't have to renew it, unlike PAL.

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Originally Posted by isartw

Technically, you can use those Baofeng UV 9R radios within GMRS 462-467MHz but with Basic license, you can use 2M band and HF. It's not rocket science anymore since Morse code requirement lifted off and it's a one-time fee, you don't have to renew it, unlike PAL.

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They are not type approved for GMRS/FRS use.
They are only approved for use in the Amateur Radio bands by anyone with a Basic ( or above[ Basic + or Advanced]) License. Well you can build a repeater with them and controllers, you need to have at least one person with their Advanced License if your input and output are on the same band.

Last summer Industry Canada charge a large number of people( Non-licensed and a few Licensed) that where using Baofeng Radios.

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Originally Posted by oaknut

I really don't think you need to worry about the feds bothering you up near Longlac.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

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I was thinking the same thing....hopefully the CRTC employees are working on more productive tasks....then again........

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

I was thinking the same thing....hopefully the CRTC employees are working on more productive tasks....then again........

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Lol ya...I'll take the risk so I can communicate with guys I hunt with to AVOID the fine of not being in contact.

Why can't we just have good quality stuff like in the states? So tired of having to purchase down there for everything then get bent over when it hits canada paying customs fees.

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Originally Posted by SongDog

Why can't we just have good quality stuff like in the states? So tired of having to purchase down there for everything then get bent over when it hits canada paying customs fees.

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There is a real vacuum when it comes to any radio system made for the general public. A system that would work good here would be one like they use in Australia. They have a FM VHF system that provides good short range coverage. There are vehicle and handheld models so it's adaptable.

As for the tax and duty on radio gear from the states...Sorry. I bought just over $5000 of ham gear and there was no tax or duty on it.

We use the GMRS radios. Some frequencies are 2 watt, others are 5 watt. I’ve heard good things about Baofeng radios-> they’re powerful and you can program the channels.

I was thinking about getting a pair but have cell coverage in Most areas.

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Originally Posted by Hunterrev

We will be hunting cuts where there is no cell phone reception, north of Long Lac. Only two trucks with three ATV's and two canoes, so we will not be out of range to hear each party shoot. I'm sure the GMRS radios would work just fine, was wondering about the Spot X also, to send a message home or in case of emergencies also.

I think we'll invest in a good set of radios and go from there.

We have a Bull and a Cow tag!

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I have a Spot X and it is a good option for emergencies and communication to home. Last week bear hunting many miles from cell signal I used it while 28 feet up a tree to direct watermain repairs on a site 400 km away. Sent maybe 40 or 50 messages back and forth. I have also used it all over the world in off grid places and for the most it worked. Perhaps 2 or 3 percent of the time you will get a message that says poor signal. The other thing to remember is that it is not real time. It can take 5 to 15 minutes for messages to go through. That delay would render it ineffective for party hunting communication within a group.