Will out epidemic turn into a full blown pandemic

Projected overdose deaths this year could exceed over 2200 deaths in Ontario alone.

Vancouver seen again in September 119 % increase in deaths. https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...inds-1.5182076

Saw a new documentary the other night kinda sad really.

It's a dw documentary not sure when it was filmed could be from this year ,yet no pandemic talk in it . So I kinda think it was from before the pandemic hit . It's called

" 10 dollar death trip "


Shows just how much a problem the fentanyl really is a problem in Canada . Just released 4 days ago an estimated 60 to 70 thousand die every year in the USA but this film is about Canada. Particularly in the west strip on Vancouver .

This problem is hitting everywhere we see it all over the place and it spreading fast through the northern regions North Bay , Sudbury, Timmins, crime rates are exploding

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Another epidemic....this one hosted by the CERB. Give people money with no strings attached....what in the heck were they expecting .

I want to feel sorry for these people addicted to drugs, I do. But, damn it I was a smoker and I quit. It wasn’t the easiest thing to do cold turkey but i did it. These addicts need less places to enjoy their drugs safely and more pep talks on getting back on track and owning it. You have but one life to live, use the time wisely, it’s slips away fast.

Six fentanyl overdose deaths in Renfrew County in the past couple of months. Scary as hell for any parent with a child at the "experimental" age.

That was just more fuel to the massive pre pandemic problem.



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I know this sounds extremely harsh but...
Is this not mother nature taking care of herself? Survival of the fittest kind of thing?

Right from when children are old enough to comprehend English their parents, teachers, family, government and TV tell them that drugs will mess you up! Its not the governments fault, the fault only lies with the moron deciding to shoot, snort or smoke the crap.

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With the isolation, the handouts and free time, the criminals and gangs ignored... it is a huge slow rolling disaster... remember the Danforth shooter... well what about his brother...
https://globalnews.ca/news/4353028/d...-coma-charges/
"Police say they discovered 33 guns and seized 42 kilograms of what was later identified as the deadly street drug carfentanil, believed to be 100 times more potent than fentanyl."

It won't take much to make a huge disaster, there is lots out there it seems and if someone uses it as a weapon , it has been marked as a Weapon of Mass Destruction and it might be in your or your neighbours house.
https://ndupress.ndu.edu/Media/News/...emical-weapon/


https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/fi...g-20180501.pdf

It is apparently a very useful medication but the interactions and contraindications are huge for this drug too.
https://www.drugs.com/fentanyl.html


So based on the lethality indicated here of 2mg
https://www.oxfordtreatment.com/subs...l/lethal-dose/

42Kg at .002g would be about 21,000,000 lethal doses of fentanyl .... and the stuff he had was 100 times more effective ...... so he had 33 handguns and enough drugs to kill every person in Canada 50 times.

The one article mentions 64,000 in the US and this one says in the 3 years prior to writing the article 14,000 in Canada from opiods.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/opioi...nada-1.5393891

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Originally Posted by Birdbuff

I want to feel sorry for these people addicted to drugs, I do. But, damn it I was a smoker and I quit. It wasn’t the easiest thing to do cold turkey but i did it. These addicts need less places to enjoy their drugs safely and more pep talks on getting back on track and owning it. You have but one life to live, use the time wisely, it’s slips away fast.

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It's not as easy as quiting smoking . The withdrawals are a far cry from nicotine lol. . Many simply cannot handle the withdrawal so they will just use again to make them feel better. Vicious cycle it is indeed.

It's why there are methadone clinics all over the place. But then again these places make it hard as well, there are up sides and down sides to it.

Even pain killers like many have mentioned stories, they are highly addictive . Some just can't stop after an injury and need treatment afterwards.


On the streets there are no limits . Take it for a few weeks or months and you will never want to leave it.

It's all around it's everywhere and it's not just the opioid . Every single high school has its sources . It hasn't changed in 20 years only the drugs these new generations are willing to do for a high is wacked . I've heard many stories from nail polish to chloroform you name it . People actually enjoy the taste of fentanyl . I was a user of the other spectrum of the drugs not the opioids. More of the recreational party going things for many years way back.
I always said no to that opioid side tho.



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Originally Posted by oaknut

I know this sounds extremely harsh but...
Is this not mother nature taking care of herself? Survival of the fittest kind of thing?

Right from when children are old enough to comprehend English their parents, teachers, family, government and TV tell them that drugs will mess you up! Its not the governments fault, the fault only lies with the moron deciding to shoot, snort or smoke the crap.

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Kinda lol.

What about the parents who permit it?

My middle child knows people who smoke or do whatever their kids. I was still running and hiding my weed from my 18 year old before it was legal . Yes she knew I smoked it but I always tried to keep it hidden [emoji12] or away from them.

I still do with my youngest hide it [emoji23] .

How many people have these discussions with their kids? How many ask their kids what kind of drugs are going around ? At 14 many know alot and well if your not open with your children they probably won't tell you.

How many children are still afraid to talk to police about it ? Many.

Do you always know where and what your children are doing ? Many do not ,they are over at Johnny's that's it. Who are the parents ?


I know several that are pushing 40 and blowing there teenagers pay together for a high sad really . I knew a heroin head that his 5 year old knew how to roll a joint again sad but this is the life we live in.
To each there own I guess .

Some generations just keep it going .

We talk to are kids as they get older we can tell them a little more about how mom and dad grew up and what we did . Since we know the other side it's easier to talk about we can relate and be open .

Many parents are oblivious to what is in the world we live in. Many people are oblivious to what is really out there.

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Mosq

Cocaine jumped 20 thousand a kilo and the demand and supply is the same as pre pandemic. Crazy .



The money is to much for some to refuse

Have you seen any documentaries of the fentanyl and the carfentanyl all the handlers where gloves and makes to open it up. Much of the heroin is now mixed with fentanyl before it crosses our boarders

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So I work right in front of the mission and during the whole CERB payment time, everyone there has been getting CERB helped by the staff to apply. OD and drug crisis has gone up and in fact Saturday night past, 4 died. No COVID at Mission, but averaging 3-4 deaths per week down here because of opioids..

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Another epidemic....this one hosted by the CERB. Give people money with no strings attached....what in the heck were they expecting .

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Originally Posted by warpipe

Six fentanyl overdose deaths in Renfrew County in the past couple of months. Scary as hell for any parent with a child at the "experimental" age.

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Definitely is that is a Small population area
to have that many in it . I always said to the kids to keep away from all that crap .

That's just that experimental age their friends are doing it so they will just try as well . I learned young about the effects of that side of the drug spectrum . Also new a guy in school 1 hit of acid and he will never be the same. Yet 3 others took it and they are fine. The other fellow will have complications for the rest of his life from 1 bad decision that he and his friends did.



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Glad they are sentencing these dealers for a proper amount of time.

Have heard of 2 people in the last year getting good sentiences for selling it. Both looking at 10 years [emoji106] as it stands these guys are getting more time then the killers .

I know a few that took the manslaughter charges they did 5 to 6 years .

So it's good to see these guys getting a strong 10 for selling the crap. I heard if you have more than an oz it could become 10 years . I have no problem with that it's kinda how you set the law . You wanna break the law you pay the price .

These tough laws should also be handed to the gun crimes but they do don't. They just get a few infractions carrying without a license ,improper use and so on.

To be honest I don't think there is to much of a punishment for the guns. Seems the punishment is small enough not to care.


These dealers of this drug will learn soon enough when they keep getting 10 years [emoji106]

Maybe if they find your products have killed they could tac on an extra 5 and make it 15 years [emoji106]

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Originally Posted by fishfood

Glad they are sentencing these dealers for a proper amount of time.

Have heard of 2 people in the last year getting good sentiences for selling it. Both looking at 10 years [emoji106] as it stands these guys are getting more time then the killers .

I know a few that took the manslaughter charges they did 5 to 6 years .

So it's good to see these guys getting a strong 10 for selling the crap. I heard if you have more than an oz it could become 10 years . I have no problem with that it's kinda how you set the law . You wanna break the law you pay the price .

These tough laws should also be handed to the gun crimes but they do don't. They just get a few infractions carrying without a license ,improper use and so on.

To be honest I don't think there is to much of a punishment for the guns. Seems the punishment is small enough not to care.


These dealers of this drug will learn soon enough when they keep getting 10 years [emoji106]

Maybe if they find your products have killed they could tac on an extra 5 and make it 15 years [emoji106]

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10 years in Liberal crime management means less than 5 years, it all depends on the risk and the return and their "they won't catch me" attitude whether it will slow them down. IF .... IF they served a full 10 years it might but the current "10 years" ... which isn't 10, may not affect them. If it has killed they should be adding a life for each one... as if that would happen too.

We could fill the prisons 10 fold ,and there would still be people on the street to take their place. No matter the price to pay for getting caught there is always someone willing to take the risk.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

We could fill the prisons 10 fold ,and there would still be people on the street to take their place. No matter the price to pay for getting caught there is always someone willing to take the risk.

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It is the longest ever battle the war on drugs.

Witch it's all connected to guns , violence, theft , organized crime , murders and plenty other things.

Yet some love it ,many that's all they know .

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

We could fill the prisons 10 fold ,and there would still be people on the street to take their place. No matter the price to pay for getting caught there is always someone willing to take the risk.

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Make more prison's [emoji1787]

Send them to boot camps put them to work for good use. Maybe they learn something they enjoy [emoji12].

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

We could fill the prisons 10 fold ,and there would still be people on the street to take their place. No matter the price to pay for getting caught there is always someone willing to take the risk.

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So with that mentality we should keep the status quo and continue to play catch and release with drug dealers, gang members and criminals? I am assuming, like the Canadian debt, that most liberals believe Justin and the problem will just fix itself?

Strip prisoners of many of their 'rights' and pack them in the jails with little to no creature comforts and fill the jails to the brim. When that happens use the CERB money and build more but not on prime land that is valuable and expensive but in remote areas that are experiencing high unemployment. This Liberal hug a thug/crime management experiment needs to end and end soon - we need a criminal justice system.

I was just looking at the Canada stats for prisoners and it pretty much hasn't changed from the past 20 years . In the mid 90s for inmates at 38 thousand inmates across Canada . I was looking for Ontario information but I found Canada.

As of 2018 there was 40 thousand inmates across Canada. If crime rates are rising why no increase inmates?

Since the beginning they have always been at capacity why not the need for more? .

Oh and they released many because of the pandemic in 2020


https://www.prisonstudies.org/country/canada

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Originally Posted by 410001661

Strip prisoners of many of their 'rights' and pack them in the jails with little to no creature comforts and fill the jails to the brim.

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I think the drug problem is just as bad 'inside'....if our legal system can keep drugs away from people who are incarcerated, how the heck do they think they can do anything to stop what is going on on the outside.

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Originally Posted by 410001661

So with that mentality we should keep the status quo and continue to play catch and release with drug dealers, gang members and criminals? I am assuming, like the Canadian debt, that most liberals believe Justin and the problem will just fix itself?

Strip prisoners of many of their 'rights' and pack them in the jails with little to no creature comforts and fill the jails to the brim. When that happens use the CERB money and build more but not on prime land that is valuable and expensive but in remote areas that are experiencing high unemployment. This Liberal hug a thug/crime management experiment needs to end and end soon - we need a criminal justice system.

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America tried that 3 strikes and you're out for the last 25 years and it got them nowhere,they are now looking at model,s from Germany on prison reform and rehab that actually works.

There are a lot of folks in jail in Canada hat do not need to be there,minor offences,many for drugs where they were harming themselves. Jail should be for the hard core career criminals and I agree with you it should be much more uncomfortable.
But the truth is that under either Liberal or Conservative parties no changes have been made because you have Lawyers running the whole game.

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Originally Posted by line052

So I work right in front of the mission and during the whole CERB payment time, everyone there has been getting CERB helped by the staff to apply. OD and drug crisis has gone up and in fact Saturday night past, 4 died. No COVID at Mission, but averaging 3-4 deaths per week down here because of opioids..

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I saw an interview with a few of the Chiefs on the reserves and they are angry over how much damage the CERB has done.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

America tried that 3 strikes and you're out for the last 25 years and it got them nowhere,they are now looking at model,s from Germany on prison reform and rehab that actually works.

There are a lot of folks in jail in Canada hat do not need to be there,minor offences,many for drugs where they were harming themselves. Jail should be for the hard core career criminals and I agree with you it should be much more uncomfortable.
But the truth is that under either Liberal or Conservative parties no changes have been made because you have Lawyers running the whole game.

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This...

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Originally Posted by fishfood

I was just looking at the Canada stats for prisoners and it pretty much hasn't changed from the past 20 years . In the mid 90s for inmates at 38 thousand inmates across Canada . I was looking for Ontario information but I found Canada.

As of 2018 there was 40 thousand inmates across Canada. If crime rates are rising why no increase inmates?

Since the beginning they have always been at capacity why not the need for more? .

Oh and they released many because of the pandemic in 2020


https://www.prisonstudies.org/country/canada

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So both conservative and liberal majority governments.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

So both conservative and liberal majority governments.

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It's an issue that has been left alone for to long .

But our crime rate has been steadily growing over the last 4 years . If you want to play government's fault it has only gone up since Justin Trudeau has been in power.

Crime
Drug over doses
Violence
Shootings

It's all on the rise since your liberal friends

Forgot they could care less about crime , covering up the WE scandal's money laundering complete lack of ethics. Destroying documents he is on the way to a mental break down. He is not fit to be our leader . A leader sets examples not Tell everyone one thing and do another.




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Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishfood

Make more prison's [emoji1787]

Send them to boot camps put them to work for good use. Maybe they learn something they enjoy [emoji12].

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Now you are on to something! Prison is too comfy these days, bring back the chain gangs!

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Originally Posted by oaknut

Now you are on to something! Prison is too comfy these days, bring back the chain gangs!

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Naw Trudeau would say it's slavery [emoji23]


It would be nice why not put them to work. If they didn't want to be there then we'll I guess they'll smarten up lol. They could be doing something useful towards the community.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by oaknut

I know this sounds extremely harsh but...
Is this not mother nature taking care of herself? Survival of the fittest kind of thing?

Right from when children are old enough to comprehend English their parents, teachers, family, government and TV tell them that drugs will mess you up! Its not the governments fault, the fault only lies with the moron deciding to shoot, snort or smoke the crap.

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Not harsh at all, it's reality.

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Originally Posted by Fisherman

Not harsh at all, it's reality.

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Agreed, it’s natural selection.

But I imagine when it’s someone you know or care for, you feel differently

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishfood

It's an issue that has been left alone for to long .

But our crime rate has been steadily growing over the last 4 years . If you want to play government's fault it has only gone up since Justin Trudeau has been in power.

Crime
Drug over doses
Violence
Shootings

It's all on the rise since your liberal friends

Forgot they could care less about crime , covering up the WE scandal's money laundering complete lack of ethics. Destroying documents he is on the way to a mental break down. He is not fit to be our leader . A leader sets examples not Tell everyone one thing and do another.




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Wrong.

Crime in general has declined in Canada since 2000 with the 2018 crime rate around 30 percent lower than peak levels in 2003. Property crime and violent crime have followed this general trend with rates dropping 39 percent and 23 percent respectively during the same time period.Jan 28, 202

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Originally Posted by fishfood

Naw Trudeau would say it's slavery [emoji23]


It would be nice why not put them to work. If they didn't want to be there then we'll I guess they'll smarten up lol. They could be doing something useful towards the community.

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Sounds easy but would exactly do you get somebody to work f they refuse?

Lawyers would have you in Court in 2 seconds flat.

Have we not progressed beyond chain gangs? What next, torture them. There will always people who break the law no matter how harsh and severe the punishment. When they inevitably get out that will be great, release tortured and beaten individuals on society. Mental state...revenge.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Wrong.

Crime in general has declined in Canada since 2000 with the 2018 crime rate around 30 percent lower than peak levels in 2003. Property crime and violent crime have followed this general trend with rates dropping 39 percent and 23 percent respectively during the same time period.Jan 28, 202

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Ok here is a document shows police incidents shows there was roughly just over [emoji817] thousand more in 2019 from 2015
Steady rise since 2015 . Ontario police incidents
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1...pid=3510018001

Sorry yes crime is down from the late 90s but it's steady on the rise 2015

Shootings have skyrocketedway up since ford was mayor.
https://www.npr.org/2020/01/17/79451...ing-in-toronto
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Toronto

The second pic Toronto is a third of the way down. It's going from 1300 to 2000 violent gun crimes.

How am I wrong ?

I didn't say crime is at an all time high . I said it's been on the rise since 2015 . Since Justin Trudeau has taken office.

What has he done to help the shootings in Toronto ? Nothing [emoji14]

I present you my fact by statistics Canada in the pictures.

Yes I remember the late 90 . York region was also classified as mini Detroit back then.

But population vs the shootings in Toronto is comparable with New York in 2019.


Hit me back [emoji1787]

Next
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...6b45e5a4d7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...70190925c8.jpg

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Ok so pics are blurry [emoji1787] best I can do at the moment.

Do some research then get back to me with your findings [emoji106][emoji12]



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Sounds easy but would exactly do you get somebody to work f they refuse?

Lawyers would have you in Court in 2 seconds flat.

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They already receive community service hours do they not?


Bump it up a bit they have to be done before your time.

Increase the time according to the time served. The longer you do the more hours you need worked on a yearly basis [emoji3526].

Lots of things can be done .

I had a great lawyer too [emoji6] some even called him an idiot when they saw my resume and told them my lawyer said I good [emoji23][emoji849]. In the end other guy was the idiot and I was free to do whatever. The other lawyers said there was no way going home I was to smart for that [emoji106]. I managed myself even my probation officer was shocked she told them to lock me up again I was to smart for her lol [emoji23] but nope almost a year I didn't see my probation officer . My lawyer was on holiday. I dealt with it day by day used many high end lawyer's for peanuts [emoji1645]. Who doesn't like a few hundred bucks for 5 minutes of their time? . [emoji23]

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The problem with that statement is many who are addicted or mentally ill, never accept, cannot accept, nor are capable of accepting help. This is one the big issues I faced my men committing suicide, despite all the protocols in place and support..you cant force someone who is incapable to accept help.

The issue is and will always remain, lack of funding for mental health and drug addictions problem (which are intimately connected) It is also why I advocate the complete legalization of all drugs, and then use the funds across all three levels of government (for drug wars), to fund mental health and drug addictions centers.

You will never stem the mental health or drug addictions by legalizing them, however, the supports and resources (which are not funded now), will be there waiting and ready for when it is needed.

Just talk to parents who have tried to have children committed, or did not have the funds, and no public funding spots are available (very few). Many parents will tell horror stories of the system failing them, and live with that pain.

I have come to accept - you just can't save them all - it doesn't work like that in real life.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

Agreed, it’s natural selection.

But I imagine when it’s someone you know or care for, you feel differently

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by line052

The problem with that statement is many who are addicted or mentally ill, never accept, cannot accept, nor are capable of accepting help. This is one the big issues I faced my men committing suicide, despite all the protocols in place and support..you cant force someone who is incapable to accept help.

The issue is and will always remain, lack of funding for mental health and drug addictions problem (which are intimately connected) It is also why I advocate the complete legalization of all drugs, and then use the funds across all three levels of government (for drug wars), to fund mental health and drug addictions centers.

You will never stem the mental health or drug addictions by legalizing them, however, the supports and resources (which are not funded now), will be there waiting and ready for when it is needed.

Just talk to parents who have tried to have children committed, or did not have the funds, and no public funding spots are available (very few). Many parents will tell horror stories of the system failing them, and live with that pain.

I have come to accept - you just can't save them all - it doesn't work like that in real life.

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I also agree but many will not.

The legal heroin system in Vancouver is changing the trend in a positive way.

Yes they still get their fix but life important changes are happening for the better of them.

Many just think by making it legal it will automatically be a disastrous decision.

Where are the smoker's? The trends are seeing less kids smoking cigarettes. My kids think it's absolutely disgusting. Yet I was aloud to smoke at 14 ?

In the end what ever we have done to stop it isn't working. Toss as much money as you at want the problem hasn't stopped. It's still here pretty much anyone at the age of 15 will be able to find what they are looking for.

I only use cannabis I'm not interested in using anything else if it was decriminalized.
I bet there are plenty of people willing to pay a fine then to spend lots of money on a lawyer to get them off from having a small amount of drugs .

Do you know how much resources and money it takes up for a small little baggy of something?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Have we not progressed beyond chain gangs? What next, torture them. There will always people who break the law no matter how harsh and severe the punishment. When they inevitably get out that will be great, release tortured and beaten individuals on society. Mental state...revenge.

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Why not share the joy with the criminals.......we listen to your drivel on a daily basis so let's spread the 'joy'. Hell I would welcome some torture over your twisted logic - LOL.

Personally criminals or addicts will get zero empathy from me. If you break the law you pay the price.......seems easy enough but yet it is one that our own PM cannot follow.

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Originally Posted by 410001661

Why not share the joy with the criminals.......we listen to your drivel on a daily basis so let's spread the 'joy'. Hell I would welcome some torture over your twisted logic - LOL.

Personally criminals or addicts will get zero empathy from me. If you break the law you pay the price.......seems easy enough but yet it is one that our own PM cannot follow.

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Whole hearty agree 100% with the above statement

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 410001661

Why not share the joy with the criminals.......we listen to your drivel on a daily basis so let's spread the 'joy'. Hell I would welcome some torture over your twisted logic - LOL.

Personally criminals or addicts will get zero empathy from me. If you break the law you pay the price.

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It goes beyond breaking the law...if you choose to phuck up your life, so be it. It's your decision, your poor choices, and only you can change that. Providing a crutch is all society can do, but it's a band-aid and in the end, it's up to you to decide to stop the self destruction.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

It goes beyond breaking the law...if you choose to phuck up your life, so be it. It's your decision, your poor choices, and only you can change that. Providing a crutch is all society can do, but it's a band-aid and in the end, it's up to you to decide to stop the self destruction.

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Funny how this logic doesn't also apply to God eh Mike? Anything wrong happens because of our fault ... we blame God ... we take no responsibility (see other post on 2nd COVID wave).

Why would we. It is all part of the master plan, no matter what we do. It's gods will. Either the deity controls everything or he controls nothing.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Why would we. It is all part of the master plan, no matter what we do. It's gods will. Either the deity controls everything or he controls nothing.

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He does not control our will. That he left for us to do ... so that we may choose love over evil. You cannot have love without free will.