Second rut timing

[Deer Wrastler]

The science behind it says there is a second rut and even a third in January but obviously the percent of breedable does goes down drastically after the initial rut. Exactly 1 month after the first rut is when the second rut would on average be peaking. So if around Nov 12th is the peak of the first rut, second rut will be around Dec 12th statistically.

[Bo D]

Normally 28 days after the first rut is when doe will come into estrus again if she didn't get bred the first time around...

[marky.mark]

do you guys think there is a pre rut for the 2nd rut? as in does it follow the same patterns as the first?

[punkrockerpj]

im getting folks telling me how bucks are chasing.
ive never done just ML hunt before for bucks until this year. gunna be fun!

[Sam Menard]

do you guys think there is a pre rut for the 2nd rut? as in does it follow the same patterns as the first?

IMO the so-called second rut is overstated, over simplified, and overhyped. Very few does make it past their first estrus without being successfully impregnated. Secondly, there is a common belief that does will re-cycle every 28 days. The interval between cycles varies between individual does. It could be 28 days, it could be less, it could be more. Much of it depends on the age and health of the doe.

Late season breeding does in fact occur but it doesn’t involve a large part of the deer population. In some cases, well-fed doe fawns will mature and will successfully breed. The breeding period can best be illustrated as a bell curve rather than a series of peaks every 28 days. As long as the curve is above the baseline, breeding will be occurring.

As the season wears on, older bucks that over-exerted themselves will drop out of the rut. Some of these bucks will drop their antlers in early December due to a lack of testosterone. There is also some research that suggests that it is primarily younger does that are bred later in the fall and that these younger does are more comfortable around younger bucks. These does that cycle later in the season can attract a lot of attention as demand exceeds supply,

Anyway, the second rut has been researched and debunked as a significant event. It’s right up there with “does urinate in scrapes to attract bucks”, or “all of the breeding is done by the older bucks”.

[marky.mark]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LjZo3P3HZRk

[fishermccann]

And everybody says you never post about hunting! Get any pics?

Not of that particular deer, I have sooo many on my phone and computer, I could share. But I am old ,and really computer illiterate. I would need my son to help me post them off my device. New years resolution?.

[Deer Wrastler]

IMO the so-called second rut is overstated, over simplified, and overhyped. Very few does make it past their first estrus without being successfully impregnated. Secondly, there is a common belief that does will re-cycle every 28 days. The interval between cycles varies between individual does. It could be 28 days, it could be less, it could be more. Much of it depends on the age and health of the doe.

Late season breeding does in fact occur but it doesn’t involve a large part of the deer population. In some cases, well-fed doe fawns will mature and will successfully breed. The breeding period can best be illustrated as a bell curve rather than a series of peaks every 28 days. As long as the curve is above the baseline, breeding will be occurring.

As the season wears on, older bucks that over-exerted themselves will drop out of the rut. Some of these bucks will drop their antlers in early December due to a lack of testosterone. There is also some research that suggests that it is primarily younger does that are bred later in the fall and that these younger does are more comfortable around younger bucks. These does that cycle later in the season can attract a lot of attention as demand exceeds supply,

Anyway, the second rut has been researched and debunked as a significant event. It’s right up there with “does urinate in scrapes to attract bucks”, or “all of the breeding is done by the older bucks”.

All good info except I do not agree the second rut isnt significant.

Who debunked it as not a significant event? Do you have any information on what research indicated this?

If a small percentage, and from what Ive read 10% of does are going into heat in December its certainty going to affect some buck behaviour. Especially the dominant breeding buck of the square mile it controls. Even though most lesser bucks wont be searching, the biggest buck of the area will be, he knows there are receptive does and keeps cruising for them.

The chance to get the biggest buck of the square mile continuing to follow a seeking/breeding pattern is a significant piece of information especially for trophy hunting.

Ken Nordberg's Whitetail Hunting Almanac:

[onelessarrow]

I think Ken's accredited with debunking those myths that Sam mentioned.
I also think there's some validity though to the bell curve that Sam describes.
Just from my own experience, I've collected doe urine with blood during every week in December. I know this for sure because I used to travel through bedding areas specifically just to collect it and some years I would have to wait later into December for snow in order to be able to get it. I've also seen it in early January shed hunting.

[Sam Menard]

All good info except I do not agree the second rut isnt significant.

Who debunked it as not a significant event? Do you have any information on what research indicated this?

If a small percentage, and from what Ive read 10% of does are going into heat in December its certainty going to affect some buck behaviour. Especially the dominant breeding buck of the square mile it controls. Even though most lesser bucks wont be searching, the biggest buck of the area will be, he knows there are receptive does and keeps cruising for them.

The chance to get the biggest buck of the square mile continuing to follow a seeking/breeding pattern is a significant piece of information especially for trophy hunting.

Ken Nordberg's Whitetail Hunting Almanac:

It’s going to take a while for me to find references to the research. What I’ve learned is that breeding mostly occurs during mid-November however some does will breed in October and others later in the fall. Late breeding usually involves does that were not impregnated earlier (very few in normal situations), late-born yearling does, and a few fawns that make weight (>85 pounds). The few fawns that do breed usually don’t until December onward.

The 28-day cycle is not entirely correct. It’s more of a range e.g. about 23-30 days.

The number of does that come into heat in late November/December are few (compared to the main breeding window in mid-November) that it can’t scientifically be called a second rut. That’s not to say that you can’t or won’t see crazy bucks later in the fall. On the contrary, because there aren’t many does in heat at that time of the year, several bucks may congregate around the one or two that are,

Buck dominance is always in a state of flux and isn’t dependant on antler size. Attitude has a lot to do with it. A dominant buck can lose its status later in the fall if it loses a lot of body weight during the fall. For that reason, I think subordinate bucks get a bit more beeeding action in the later part of the season.