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Thread: Bull/cow or calf?

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick_iles View Post
    I have posted my thoughts. As far as the second and third draw, I can’t see being successful in those draws, unless you are applying in a WMU that has had excess tags. Those draws are supposed to be in place of the excess tag application. I would think that the excess tag numbers will be close to the numbers and WMUs as last year. I don’t foresee any tags going unclaimed in any of the more popular WMUs. It will be interesting!!
    This is my understanding as well.

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  3. #72
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    Ok, I took some time and did a little research (thanks to Sawbill) and some calculations.
    What I found is:
    1.
    MNR states:
    Over the last decade, Ontario’s moose population, while healthy overall:
    - has declined in some parts of the north
    - has generally fared better in the southern part of the range
    https://www.ontario.ca/page/factors-...ival#section-6

    2.
    https://www.ontario.ca/page/moose-population-management
    There are 6 Zones for Moose management in Ontario. To simplify and generalize a bit for our purposes: in two of these Zones (far North and South-East) the objectives are to keep low to moderate moose density in those areas. In four others (generally South of Timmins to Trent-Seveern vertically and province-wide horizontally) the objective is to keep moderate to high density of moose population.
    So in those Zones where the objectives are Moderate to High, indeed, the goals are not met. The population is below Moderate level: 59% (Kenora far West); 79% (Thunder Bay to Dryden); 88% North Bay toTimmins; 96% (Middle of Ontario)
    As you could see even though the objectives are not met and the populations are below Moderate, still nothing really tragic happened.

    3.
    For those of you who believe that higher success rate nowadays (compared to the previous time) means killing more moose I have to clearly tell you: you are wrong.
    Success rate has nothing to do with the number of moose removed from the population because of dramatic tag reduction. Moose (bulls, cows, calf altogether and everyone separated) are taking far less now than in previous years.
    4.
    My personal impression from all this reading is that the opinion that the moose population was far better in previous years and crashed in 1980s and declining now might be just erroneous. I might be wrong and willing to accept it if I would see the data showing otherwise, but it's hard for me to believe that at that time (1980s and earlier) there were any appropriate tools and resources to correctly estimate the moose population. All these opinions about “old good days” might be based only on anecdotal evidence.

    So once again, for those of you who are very emotional about the moose situation in Ontario, I would suggest to take it easy. Everything is not so bad.
    But, sure, everyone of us could make things better. Apply and buy a tag but do not shoot. “Hunting catch and release”. What could be better?
    Thank you and good luck everyone!

  4. #73
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    Very interesting links-Thank You for it.
    One "hidden"or obscure information can raise some eyebrows: first they list all the positive changes in the past 40 years(more roads-ATV availability-radio availability -season lengths and group huntong allowed)
    All in favor of moose harvest!
    Then they state -even the success rate is higher nowadays(20-30 % in the past versus 40-50 % now)

    About same number of moose and hunters then and now.


    They issued 47000 tags in 1984(no party hunting)versus 10757 tags in 2018(party hunting)
    Now : like avg 25 % success out of 47 K is 11.800 moose harvested then - versus nowadays 45% avg success in 10.7 K tags, is 4840 moose harvested.
    With ALL the perks and bells and whistles to help hunters.

    I am absolutely not emotional about this ,hovewer it impacts us,so we have a right to be concerned.

    Definition of insanity is:

    Doing the same thing over and over again ,and expecting a different results.

    No change-no improvement.
    Last edited by gbk; March 5th, 2021 at 06:15 PM.

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