Forum Rule changes/upgrade -proposal

[gbk]

In the thread - What the heck is going on here(see Off Topics)i was asked at one point by Meghan* (see post # 90)what would I change in the rules(to try to better the forum):

see:

What would you amend or change, gbk?
https://www.oodmag.com/community/sho...-Rules-Conduct

While i am ,as the next guy,just a regular member looking for improvements-took some time to address the request.


This in "my" take:
It is not targeting anyone,just the concerns repeated several time by many members: Forum could use some change(to stay diplomatic ).
Feel free to criticize/add/take away/modify.

My approach is based on:
This Forum is owned by ODD-but this is "our"Forum.

Lets see,if we can do something to save this Forum,from foreseeable demise.

Disclaimer: there is zero assurance,even if every each of the recommedations/amendements by me or others are implemented-would save the Forum.
At least we can say though-we tried .

Here is the Project ,see below.
Highighted and slanted are the "add ons"


FORUM RULES(as set many years ago),with recommended amendments:


The policies outlined below are strictly enforced and are there so that all users feel comfortable posting and interacting.

If any of the guidelines are broken, the moderators have full discretion to recommend suspending or ban any user without notice, depending on the severity of the infraction.
As both measures are impacting members-these decisions will be made in team environment ,with Mods and Admin team decision.

Thank you for using the Ontario OUT OF DOORS Community forums.

GUIDELINES:

Offensive language, including all racial, ethnic ,political or religious ,or sexual slurs, as well as personal attacks, including name-calling and insults directed at other forum members is prohibited.
Offensive language examples:____________

If you have any questions or concerns regarding any specific organizations including hunting and outdoor companies, please contact them directly. This forum is not a place to air personal grievances, speculation or defamation. Any posts that DO NOT meet the above guidelines will be deleted without warning and repeat offenses will lead to permanent expulsion.

MODERATORS:

Moderators are active members of the community and have been empowered with the ability to not only police the forums but to give guidance and help facilitate discussion. They understand our conduct policy and are able to enforce it, and what they deem inappropriate. However, if you feel that your post has inappropriately been removed please contact an administrator with the appropriate information about your post and your account.
Moderators diplomatically conduct their business .
They are not engaging in threads while taking sides, making comments on topic and/or individuals. Their general stance reflects neutrality /integrity and diplomacy.
COMMUNITY RULES:

The following rules will be enforced. Violation will lead to temporary or permanent expulsion from the site.

1. Any discussion and promotion of illegal actives or information that is deliberately misleading or any discussion of activities that are in violation of the Fish and Hunting regulations as set forth by the Ontario Ministry of Natural resources.

2. Controversial, religious or political threads deemed inappropriate or needlessly provocative will be removed without warning.
There should be clear definition what is inappropriate Or at least what is deemed needlessly provocative.

3(a). Personal insults, inappropriate or offensive content, the incitement of violence, or disrupting behaviours, which are detrimental to discussions in the forum will not be tolerated.
Personal -this must be clearly defined.
Example: Johhny is bad =personal attack..some people are bad(not a personal attack)

In case you are uncertain as to what defines inappropriate content, a simple test is to ask yourself the following questions when you make a post:

A) Is this message outdoor-related? (with the exception of the Off Topic forum)
B) Is this message something that most members would like to read?
Leaves open door for bias. Re wording can help.
C) Does this message add value to this forum?Leaves open door for bias.Perhaps rewording can help.
D) Is this something I would say to a person face-to-face?
Rewording can help/up to and including:would I like to be told this?

If you cannot answer yes to any of these questions, please reconsider posting your message.
Inappropriate and offensive : must be defined,to avoid bias.Examples could help also.
Please note that this also includes complaints about other forum users, question to site admin, etc. All comments of this nature are to be e-mailed to: forums@oodmag.com. As usual, we also encourage all users to immediately contact a moderator if and when they read an objectionable message or to use the report a thread option ( the exclamation mark icon on the left side below the user's avatar and post count).

3(b). Personal attacks on members, cyber bullying, libel comments or bashing/slandering of businesses, organizations, individuals or corporations will not be tolerated. Threads deemed to be an attempt to "stir the pot" or are looking for support on their attack will be removed. If you have an issue with a particular organization, business or corporation, please contact them directly. If you have an issue with a particular member, please contact the administrator or a moderator.
Personal attack-needs clear and simple definition.
Stir the pot could use clear definition(while for some it can seem as interesting point for debate-for some it may seem stirring the pot)
Note-Especially the Off Topic section by desing is prone to be site for Contarversial topics.
4(a). Images cannot contain overtly sexual or violent content, and must not violate copyright laws. Any images deemed inappropriate will be removed without warning. This includes avatars and profile pictures.

4(b). We love to see your photos, but these guidelines must be followed. Members posting photos of their success in the field or on the water, please note:
* You represent ALL hunters/anglers with material you post on this public forum.
* Post ONLY photos of tagged big game if the tag would normally be visible.
* Exclude "celebration" drinks from photos.
* Tastefully display your harvest (no excessive gore).
* Do not post photos of fish caught in catch and release-only seasons.

Partly for your protection, and because we want to uphold the highest standards, photos that fail to meet these guidelines or are deemed inappropriate by the administration will be removed.
Deemed is a word prone to bias-there is already clear definition of photo posting. Edit t definitions if more clarity is needed.
5. When posting articles or news stories only the URL to the article, the title of the article and the source will be accepted. Due to copyright laws we cannot copy and paste the actual content of the story into our forums.

6. Multiple accounts or identities are not allowed. If you are caught using more than one account/identity, you risk permanent expulsion.

7. Swearing is prohibited.

8. Advertising the sale or promotion of commercial goods and services, illegal or questionable merchandise or the solicitation of business is strictly prohibited.
Clear definition can help.
Example:while saying: gun company makes the best guns,would recommend them to anyone can be deemed as much advertisemet,as much as posting links to the same company,saying good things about them.
Posting links to news channels/Face book addresses/newspapers etc are not advertisement.
If Forums thinks we should not have them links-they can be simply banned all together.

9. All items posted for sale in the For Sale By Owner must include a price. This is NOT an Auction/bidding site, and linking to off site auctions is prohibited, "Make me an offer" with no posted base price will be summarily deleted. You may post for trades only without a price only if you are looking for specific items in trade. The item / items being sought must be listed in the post.

The Ontario OUT OF DOORS Community does not endorse or validate any buyer or seller.

10(a). If you have multiple items up for sale, PLEASE put them in one post (where possible). This keeps the posts of others from being pushed further down the page. There are to be only SIX current listings per member in any of the Forums at one time. Any listings in excess of the six allowed posts may be deleted without warning.

10(b). The For Sale by Owner section (Hunting Equipment, Fishing Equipment and Other Equipment forums) is for active community members. A minimum of 50 "quality" posts is required to post an item for sale. Abuse of the forum via quick threads/posts seen as a means to quickly reach the 50 post minimum will result in denial of access to this forum.
Giving notice perhaps would entice some innocent culprits to modify their stance ,and stay off harsh penalties,thus encourage active status and contribution.
10(c). ALL items for sale must be posted in the For Sale By Owner section after the user has satisfied rule 10(b).

11. If your item has been sold, or a deal is pending, please edit or delete your ad to reflect this. For sale threads older than 60-days without a reply or bump will be removed.

12. Please be an active member of this forum community and alert us to any posts you deem inappropriate by using the report a thread icon or contact a moderator or the administrator.

13. Website links, selling of items, solicitation of business and photos are prohibited in signatures.

14. Threads, signatures, images or albums that advertise your company or product are strictly prohibited. If you would like to advertise your business or product, please contact our advertising department and purchase a classifieds package. This includes website links, photos, telephone numbers or your company name in threads or signatures. ( please refer to this thread for more information on classified ads). Anything deemed by the moderators as free advertising will be edited or removed without notice.
Friendly Notice would be promoting open channels of communication.

15. Website links to other community forums are permitted in threads but NOT signatures. Threads or PM messages soliciting new members to their forum will be edited or removed.

16. Please use the PM feature to send links not permitted in the threads to members requesting them.

17. Respect of the moderators and administrator's decisions and policies is a must.
This is definitely important. However ,respect could be also earned ,not just enforced.
Unbiased approach ,clear communication of actions,neutrality in threads ,diplomatic approach,why and why not will healp earning respect.

18. The Ontario OUT OF DOORS Community does not endorse nor is it responsible for the content of any external websites that are posted within this site.

19. Any user name deemed offensive by any of the staff will be changed without notice.
Deeemded word opens door for doubt.Offensive is offensive(perhaps example would help)

20. Bumping of posts is not recommended but will be allowed at this time. Please make sure to wait a MINIMUM 48 hours from the time of your last post before you bump your thread. Please not that this rule does NOT apply to the For Sale By Owner section ( that section is a minimum 7-days from last post date ).
Removing -allowed this time would clear things up.After all -temporary things should not last 8 years.
21. If you have an outdoor event or dinner, etc that you would like to let the community know about please post it in the Outdoor Events & Meetings forum (threads will require administration's activation before going live).

Any member that uses the forum as an advertising platform for their event by spamming the forums with threads about their event will have those threads removed immediately and may be issued infraction points or a ban from the site.
Friendly Notice would be promoting open channels of communication.

22. Any threads that attempt to solicit our members to join a particular organization or community forum will be edited or deleted without warning. The OOD Community staff do not use other forums to solicit members for our community and we ask that the same be done here.
Need some clarification-in today's world ,links provided by members to improve quality of their post may be judged as soliciting ,thus opening door to heavy hand.

23. The above rules apply to all aspects and sections of the community. Any listings/posts that DO NOT meet the above guidelines may be deleted or edited by the moderators or administration without warning.


MODERATING:

Would recommend few sentences devoted to the otherwise thankless and much needed job of moderators.

To address concerns about : heavy hand/bias/personal involvement in topics by taking sides/pushing personal opinions/unneeded and uncalled for comments/lack of consistency ,etc :

Moderators are either members-either moderators!They can not ACT as both.
CONFLICT of interest!

While they contribute to any thread-it must be done with high level of professionalisan/Diplomacy/unbiased / not targeting any member,regardless if the moderator likes the topic-post ,or the member,and regardless how subtle those actions against memebers may seem.

This is very important to save integrity of the moderators/administrator and the Higher Ups in the Forum hierarchy.

Moderators are working in team environment,and every punitive measure is decided as a team(except friendly notice).
Friendly notice is mild,acts as heads -up,and gives no feeling of heavy hand.
Friendly notice CAN not be stacked up for different infractions.

Grievance against actions of moderators shall be addressed to, and evaluated/follow up actions taken ONLY by the Administrator.No team work in this subject,to save integrity.

Warnings and points are awarded ONLY by the Administrator.
Point must have a clear expiry date-communicated to the member.
Clear feedback to the member/members -in the case of dispicplinary action is a must,to maintain integrity and to serve as lessons learned for the member/members.
This shall be done without exposing the culprit way to much,or at all.




ENFORCEMENT OF RULES:

We will use an infraction system to warn users that break the forum rules. If members are caught violating any of the forum rules, or there are any complaints of disruptive behaviour by members, an infraction may be issued. Points for infractions are awarded by the moderators and administrator to those that break the rules and each infraction has a set value and expiry date.

Infractions range from warnings to three (3) points depending on the severity of the incident(s). Once a user reaches the 3-point mark their account will be disabled and access to the site will be lost.
This should be reviewed in a face of the current crisis-and softened up a bit.It needs to suit dispcipline as much as diplomacy.

PM as friendly Notice-warning-points.

Also include open communication to other members as case study-which may help understand the application of rules and the enfrcement better.


Members that disrupt or hi-jack threads may face permanent expulsion from a thread or, for repeat offenders, the particular forum.

This is a serious statement-needs definition and perhaps cases to demonstrate. Disrupting can be interpreted many which ways-flavour of the month/approach by the judge.
Hijacking threads may be a mild offence -especially if it is not repeat or innocent.
Definition would help.

( These rules are subject to review and may change in the near future without warning - changes will be posted in this thread )

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

All parties that use the "For Sale By Owner" forum to either sell or purchase items agree to the following:

The Ontario OUT OF DOORS Community service is essentially provided to you free of charge, "as is" subject to the following disclaimer which may be updated from time to time without notice to you:

The Ontario OUT OF DOORS Community "For Sale By Owner" forum acts as a venue for members to list items (or, as appropriate, solicit offers to buy) and buyers to shop for items. Ontario OUT OF DOORS is not involved in the actual transaction between buyers and sellers. In this regard, we have no control over the quality, safety or legality of the items advertised, the truth or accuracy of the listings, the ability of sellers to sell items or the ability of buyers to buy items. We cannot ensure that a buyer or seller will actually complete a transaction.

Since Ontario OUT OF DOORS is not involved in the actual transaction between buyers and sellers, in the event that you have a dispute with one or more users, you release Ontario OUT OF DOORS (and our moderators, officers, directors, agents, subsidiaries, parent entity and employees) from claims, demands and damages (actual and consequential) of every kind and nature, known and unknown, suspected and unsuspected, disclosed and undisclosed, arising out of or in any way connected with such disputes.

Ontario OUT OF DOORS does not control the information provided by other users which is made available through our system. You may find other user's information to be offensive, harmful, inaccurate, or deceptive. Please use caution, common sense, and practice safe trading when using our site. Please note that there are also risks of dealing with foreign nationals, underage persons or people acting under false pretense.

Ontario OUT OF DOORS is not responsible or liable for any further correspondence, payment, shipment or dispute of any goods or services between the respective seller and buyer affected through the use of our service.

Without limiting any other remedies, Ontario OUT OF DOORS may suspend or terminate your account if you are found (by conviction, settlement, insurance or escrow investigation, or otherwise) to have engaged in fraudulent activity in connection with our site.

IN NO EVENT SHALL ONTARIO OUT OF DOORS, ONTARIO FEDERATION OF ANGLERS AND HUNTERS OR OUR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR LOST PROFITS OR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR INJURIES ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH OUR SITE, OUR SERVICES OR THIS AGREEMENT (HOWEVER ARISING, INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE).
Last edited by CalTek; November 9th, 2014 at 11:23 PM. Reason: Added 4(b)

[rick_iles]

Gbk….excellent post, well thought out and your points make perfectly good sense.
The point I was making in my posts, that was obviously lost on a few, was that the rules were open to interpretation and obviously some interpretations, if the rules were strictly adhered to, ran afoul of those rules. I would hazard a guess that most posts relating to politics, violate the written rule. Especially if one thinks that since a “person” belongs to a defined group, any perceived attack on that “group”, violated the “personal attack” rule, simply because a person belongs to said group. I was invited to report a post by a Mod., that clearly was in violation. A report that would have been checked and moderated by the same mod that made the post ??! No conflict there !!Hmmm.
There are many other posts that violate some rule, at some point.
I’m still shaking my head over Gilly’s post, regarding “not being far enough off grid”, even with the “lol”, and apparently getting written up over…..I was thinking on the same lines as Gilly….and I certainly was not thinking it was an attack or an affront to the OP ! Just a joke post !! Mods are essentially judges ! I’ve yet to see a judge take an active part in any trial or hearing.
However, I digress, again good post !!

[greatwhite]

Yes well thought out, however this one point I am unsure about. I have seen so many threads get hi jacked and it is not always bad in fact probably good and fun. I think this one needs to be explained more.

"Members that disrupt or hi-jack threads may face permanent expulsion from a thread or, for repeat offenders, the particular forum."

[mosquito]

Deleting and locking threads requiring another Admin or Mod would be the only addition. Unilateral decisions can be or perhaps are, examples of decisions that may nothing more than a personal prejudice and not be violations and not represent the other admins, however their action will be seen representing all as such. Unilateral prejudiced decisions portrait all the admins in a negative light and make interactions more adversarial and showing some level of both accountability will earn trustworthiness or atleast understanding of viewpoint consistency.

[Sharon]

gbk:

Wow, you've gone to a lot of work . Thank you. You're recommendations will give the mods and the boss lots to talk about.
I hate to think that as a mod you would recommend that mods not give an opinion on threads posted, but I understand your reasoning ; I'll have to think that one through.

[finsfurfeathers]

Guess as the architect of these new rules you are the first to apply for this position.
Currently I for one would drop being a mod if I can't participate on the site for which I signed up for. My feeling is it be the same for the others.
So who would mod?
Finally we seem to have in place 4 mods and 2 Admin that can now work as a team to better address concerns as they arise.
Understand that for the longest time there was only one person to oversee the rules of the forum with the guidance of an interm Admin.
Now with 2 Admin to make the final decision with the help of 4 mods to express their interpretation a better balance will be achieved.
I believe the rules are pretty clear as they are and more rules usually doesn't clear things up as seen often with the complaint less government/nanny state rules.
Me personally post away and if cited learn from the experience and more forward.

[finsfurfeathers]

I’m still shaking my head over Gilly’s post, regarding “not being far enough off grid”, even with the “lol”, and apparently getting written up over…..I was thinking on the same lines as Gilly….and I certainly was not thinking it was an attack or an affront to the OP ! Just a joke post !! !

Again to clarify
The post was reported by a member and was not flaged by mod or Admin
As a mod yes I found it on the line but benine enough to let go
Ultimately Admin make the call as they should.
Mods for the most part aren't judges but more like lawyers for which I think active participation is quite warrented.

[gbk]

Thank you for the replies,and the encouragements.
At least -from most of you.

As i stated-i was "asked"to try to put something together.

I also put forward ,that what i wrote is my take.Everyone if free to criticize-add/modify/delete.
At the end--this proposal(amended or not) will not go thru without the Buy In from the Higher Ups.

Let me try to reply to some questions ;

Rick-so far, unforunatelly , at more then one occasion moderators do act as judges.
If the Forum wants to prosper,this being one of the major concerns from the members(and the Forum exist for us-not for someone else)hopefully this will be addressed.

GW-please re-read the hijacking portion,there are stipulations adressing some of your concern.Feel free to amend.

Mosquito-yes,without consistency and clear guidelines,which are followed to the T-we as a forum will just sink even more.And we are very very low already.No one can deny.

Sharon-please re read my Project re-moderator posting.
What i am suggesting is : moderators can not ACT as members and moderators at once,
They are still to post etc-but when posting,the diplomacy and neutrality shall be followed very carefully(otherwise conflict of interest is non avoidable).

FFF-See reply to Sharon about Mods posting concern.
Appreciate Your offer to become a new moderator ( which in a big scheme of things was uncalled for ).
I truly hope ,the forum can survive this challenge-and all the moderators(current and the new ones in the future)may enjoy moderating it as much, as members would like to enjoy "using it".
Hopefully, we are all here with one thing in mind-to enjoy this , otherwise destined to be great Forum.



There has been upteenth of members ,trying to convey their displeasure with the current state of affairs.
One way or another-with actions or not. With hot temper,speaking their mind,or just walking away

As it goes by an old saying;

Those who dare to speak up-they care the most.

[C.A. in TO]

I would add one more rule. It should not be allowed to have the entirety of a post be a link to content that is offsite. There should be a short description of what the link is referencing.

[finsfurfeathers]

. Especially if one thinks that since a “person” belongs to a defined group, any perceived attack on that “group”, violated the “personal attack” rule, simply because a person belongs to said group. I was invited to report a post by a Mod., that clearly was in violation. A report that would have been checked and moderated by the same mod that made the post ??! No conflict there !!Hmmm.

Sorry missed this part. You seem to believe mods act independently and with complete authority. Yes that may have been the case as repeated calls for mods fell unanswered. As the sole arbitor ya conflict of interest may have been a problem but one had to do what they had to do as best they could. Finally a few members have shown they truely care about this site and stepped up to serve. With new found support an oppurtunity exist now when reported posts come in discussion to a consense and resolution is possible.