To many calf tags?

[outdoorlife]

8 provinces and 2 territories manage moose hunts as well as at least 10 states I can think of off the top of my head. Is calf harvest completely unique to Ontario? I’ve never heard of it anywhere else. My only other experience is in BC. Seems like there must be a couple decent models out there to follow although as I’ve mentioned before here most of these other states and provinces aren’t attempting to accommodate party hunting really and that one is a bit of a game changer……


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[Matt86]

8 provinces and 2 territories manage moose hunts as well as at least 10 states I can think of off the top of my head. Is calf harvest completely unique to Ontario? I’ve never heard of it anywhere else. My only other experience is in BC. Seems like there must be a couple decent models out there to follow although as I’ve mentioned before here most of these other states and provinces aren’t attempting to accommodate party hunting really and that one is a bit of a game changer……


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Imagine if Ontario had rules like other places, no party hunting, bulls must have 4 points on their brow tines or over a certain amount of inches wide, no calf hunting. Be more moose but the complaining would be out of this world.
I think Ontario has the worse hunters in North America, to many shoot first then find out its not a calf that is a cow, Talked to a C.O outside North Bay few years ago he had 9 moose misidentified be the 3rd day in the season. Happens all over the province so think how much that impacts tags also, Spent a lot of time in other places and never hear of so much miss identified moose getting shot,

[outdoorlife]

In most areas of BC you can buy a general moose license over the counter and the only legal moose are spikes and forks. If they open a second category it’s 10 points plus on one side or a 3 point brow tine. Some very remote areas are all bulls. Cow tags are sometimes issued through special draws but are rare and only in areas where some management becomes required.


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[Gilroy]

Imagine if Ontario had rules like other places, no party hunting, bulls must have 4 points on their brow tines or over a certain amount of inches wide, no calf hunting. Be more moose but the complaining would be out of this world.
I think Ontario has the worse hunters in North America, to many shoot first then find out its not a calf that is a cow, Talked to a C.O outside North Bay few years ago he had 9 moose misidentified be the 3rd day in the season. Happens all over the province so think how much that impacts tags also, Spent a lot of time in other places and never hear of so much miss identified moose getting shot,

Yeh mis identification a real big issue, I know up my way eight or so years ago , by the Thursday of the weeks hunt 9 Moose shot that were wrongly identified. So I have some sympathy for the mistakes with excitement taking over and what not but then the mistake was compounded by allowing the group or individual to STILL hunt of the tag/tags they had. So now you have a potential double harvest and all
the management aims are out the window and lost opportunities for other hunters for the next season.

This is also not taking into account mis identification and a cover up where nothing gets self reported.

[Matt86]

There should be zero mistakes when shooting the wrong animal of any kind. Excitement or not, Be like someone sending a bullet into a school yard in the country cause was a monster buck and they didn't think of the school cause was to excited.
If you shoot a cow thinking it was a calf you shouldn't be aloud to hunt moose for a long time cause you have no clue what you are doing, or a spike bull thinking was a cow. It really is a simple as that.

[rick_iles]

Moose are not like deer. Most times you have lots of time to study the animal to see what it is.

[Sam Menard]

Imagine if Ontario had rules like other places, no party hunting, bulls must have 4 points on their brow tines or over a certain amount of inches wide, no calf hunting. Be more moose but the complaining would be out of this world.
I think Ontario has the worse hunters in North America, to many shoot first then find out its not a calf that is a cow, Talked to a C.O outside North Bay few years ago he had 9 moose misidentified be the 3rd day in the season. Happens all over the province so think how much that impacts tags also, Spent a lot of time in other places and never hear of so much miss identified moose getting shot,

For sure Ontario has very vocal hunters and the OFAH is very well organized which means that changes and restrictions can be hard to introduce. Party hunting is a deep tradition in Ontario and the reality is if banned would force many hunters to quit. In addition to the social aspects, the major benefit to party hunting is that it enables more hunters to participate. The government’s focus regarding hunting has always been to provide opportunities and their belief is that hunters are more apt to be satisfied in harvesting the first legal animal they encounter. Most hunters would balk at antler point restrictions even if they were aware of the benefits there of. Getting a chance at bagging a big game animal is hard enough for the average hunter. Adding more qualifiers would only make it more difficult to do so.

Some friends of mine used to hunt elk in BC and the rule at the time/place where they hunted was that bulls had to have at least 6 points or better on one antler side. They saw plenty of elk including many large bulls but the problem was that they were all 5-pointers or smaller. Some hunters would find contentment in the fact that they were seeing elk and had action. Other hunters might look at the situation more negatively because they couldn’t find a legal animal to shoot. It all comes down to expectations.

[werner.reiche]

Ontario moose hunters fixation with large group hunting and the allowing calf harvests are unique to Ontario, and are both major contributors to the moose management problem. I don't think there is the will (from either MNRF or the OFAH) to change either.

[Sam Menard]

Ontario moose hunters fixation with large group hunting and the allowing calf harvests are unique to Ontario, and are both major contributors to the moose management problem. I don't think there is the will (from either MNRF or the OFAH) to change either.

The MNRF and OFAH won’t do anything because there’s no hunter support. People are adverse to doing anything that might negatively impact them… even in the short term.

[werner.reiche]

The MNRF and OFAH won’t do anything because there’s no hunter support. People are adverse to doing anything that might negatively impact them… even in the short term.

So how do we change hunter's attitudes?
- If the current average group size is 8 guys and we switched to a one-hunter-per-tag system, 8x as many tags could be issued with the same effect on the moose herd.
- Not sure what the calf over-winter mortality rate is, but even if it is 50%, that is a whole lot of adult tags not being issued because the moose never survived its first hunting season.

At this point - I'd agree - the MNRF probably can't do much more without some buy-in from hunters. The point system was a good move in the right direction though.