To many calf tags?

[Sam Menard]

So how do we change hunter's attitudes?
- If the current average group size is 8 guys and we switched to a one-hunter-per-tag system, 8x as many tags could be issued with the same effect on the moose herd.
- Not sure what the calf over-winter mortality rate is, but even if it is 50%, that is a whole lot of adult tags not being issued because the moose never survived its first hunting season.

At this point - I'd agree - the MNRF probably can't do much more without some buy-in from hunters. The point system was a good move in the right direction though.

If I recall correctly, back in the 1980’s or ‘90’s, there was a couple of years where they outlawed party hunting for moose… party hunting for calves might have been legal though. Come to think of it, maybe you couldn’t party hunt antlerless deer. Whatever, the MNR caved and removed the limitation.

Maybe someone has a better memory than me and could fill in the blank.

[werner.reiche]

If I recall correctly, back in the 1980’s or ‘90’s, there was a couple of years where they outlawed party hunting for moose… party hunting for calves might have been legal though. Come to think of it, maybe you couldn’t party hunt antlerless deer. Whatever, the MNR caved and removed the limitation.

Maybe someone has a better memory than me and could fill in the blank.

My memories not much better - but I think moose was always party hunting. A moose licence (and tag) was literally your deer tag. It could also be used for elk, caribou or bear.
IIRC when they started issuing antlerless - late 1970's - tags were only to be used by the holder - only for a year or two - but this was quickly changed to anyone in the party because preventing sharing was impossible to enforce.

[trimmer21]

My memories not much better - but I think moose was always party hunting. A moose licence (and tag) was literally your deer tag. It could also be used for elk, caribou or bear.
IIRC when they started issuing antlerless - late 1970's - tags were only to be used by the holder - only for a year or two - but this was quickly changed to anyone in the party because preventing sharing was impossible to enforce.

I don't remember there ever being a combination Deer-Moose license,but,I sure remember combination tags for Deer-Black Bear or Deer-Wapiti (elk). Two plastic zip tie style attachments were sent with each license. I also remember when two Moose tags were required per animal,regardless of gender and the season in some southern WMU's was only 6 days long every second year. It's kind of hard remembering back that far,though. Gettin' old's a real b**ch,ain't it?

[werner.reiche]

I don't remember there ever being a combination Deer-Moose license,but,I sure remember combination tags for Deer-Black Bear or Deer-Wapiti (elk). Two plastic zip tie style attachments were sent with each license. I also remember when two Moose tags were required per animal,regardless of gender and the season in some southern WMU's was only 6 days long every second year. It's kind of hard remembering back that far,though. Gettin' old's a real b**ch,ain't it?

I think you are right. I think there were separate deer and moose licences. Both were could also be used for black bear and the deer was also for elk/caribou.

[Sam Menard]

I think you are right. I think there were separate deer and moose licences. Both were could also be used for black bear and the deer was also for elk/caribou.

I don’t remember caribou being part of the deer licence, but wapiti for sure.

Iirc, party hunting for does was prohibited until the early 1990’s.

[cantgetright]

For sure Ontario has very vocal hunters and the OFAH is very well organized which means that changes and restrictions can be hard to introduce. Party hunting is a deep tradition in Ontario and the reality is if banned would force many hunters to quit. In addition to the social aspects, the major benefit to party hunting is that it enables more hunters to participate. The government’s focus regarding hunting has always been to provide opportunities and their belief is that hunters are more apt to be satisfied in harvesting the first legal animal they encounter. Most hunters would balk at antler point restrictions even if they were aware of the benefits there of. Getting a chance at bagging a big game animal is hard enough for the average hunter. Adding more qualifiers would only make it more difficult to do so.

Some friends of mine used to hunt elk in BC and the rule at the time/place where they hunted was that bulls had to have at least 6 points or better on one antler side. They saw plenty of elk including many large bulls but the problem was that they were all 5-pointers or smaller. Some hunters would find contentment in the fact that they were seeing elk and had action. Other hunters might look at the situation more negatively because they couldn’t find a legal animal to shoot. It all comes down to expectations.

Not to mention that limiting the hunter to an animal with a certain number of points may not be the way to go you'd think it was. There was a story going around last year maybe where BC hunter had a tag for a moose but minimum 10pts per side and I think he had shot 3 bulls that were left to rot, none of which met the qualifications required before he was caught.

[werner.reiche]

I don’t remember caribou being part of the deer licence, but wapiti for sure.

Iirc, party hunting for does was prohibited until the early 1990’s.

I was trying to figure out when shooting antlerless deer was prohibited in Ontario. They were already issuing antlerless tags in 1983 - I can remember that clearly. But I think they started issuing them earlier than that - I looked for that too but couldn't find a date.

[Sam Menard]

I was trying to figure out when shooting antlerless deer was prohibited in Ontario. They were already issuing antlerless tags in 1983 - I can remember that clearly. But I think they started issuing them earlier than that - I looked for that too but couldn't find a date.

I remember getting one in 1981.

[rick_iles]

If I recall correctly, back in the 1980’s or ‘90’s, there was a couple of years where they outlawed party hunting for moose… party hunting for calves might have been legal though. Come to think of it, maybe you couldn’t party hunt antlerless deer. Whatever, the MNR caved and removed the limitation.

Maybe someone has a better memory than me and could fill in the blank.

There was a couple years where only the tag holder could shoot the moose. Lots of guns were swapped around during those years. It was completely unenforceable, so the MNR backed away from that requirement.

[Sam Menard]

There was a couple years where only the tag holder could shoot the moose. Lots of guns were swapped around during those years. It was completely unenforceable, so the MNR backed away from that requirement.

Rick, that sounds about right. I’m thinking it was in the early years of the implementation of the selective harvest system or a bit later after a moose review.

I can remember investigating moose cases and coming across guys who claimed to “swap” guns the morning in question. It was a dead giveaway that something was sour.