What is considered a humane kill shot ?

[Blackwolf]

I don't shoot a lot of standing deer. Mostly, they are running through fairly thick bush and mostly they are DRT. Usually I use a .444 marlin with 265 gr, but I have used a .44mag and a .30-30 on occaission. I've shot and cleaned and cut up enough deer to know what kills them. I don't know where you got the idean I can't hit deer and drop them on the spot - although dropping them on the spot is largely a function of a breakdown shot (CNS or shoulder) rather than some miraculous "shock". There are enough stories from just the hunters on this site alone that you should know that a clean heart/lung shot without CNS or bone damage cannot be guaranteed to knock a deer off its feet. Sometimes it will, sometimes it won't but it has *nothing* to do with "shock".

For a guy who "shooting was his job", you have posted some information that shows a pretty poor knowledge of it. And I hope you don't mention it again...it's embarrassing to read.

That you have to keep reminding us of it should be a note to you that we'd never guess it by the stuff you're posting.

actually you brought the subject up.....

And who are you to judge others. Have you walked in my shoes? You post some really stupid things even though you call experts liars you know more than they do. I have never nor would consider shooting a deer with a 444 marlin. If it will drop a large black bear or grizzly then its a little big for a deer. Why not a 45-70? Same use...Just too big

" How bullets kill

A rifle bullet kills an animal by destroying tissue, disrupting the function of vital organs or the central nervous system, causing blood loss, and perhaps by shock to the animal's system. The latter can be almost instantly fatal, or almost completely lacking, depending on circumstances beyond the hunter's control. The more damage a bullet causes, the more likely it is to produce a quick kill.
Shock seems most likely to occur when light framed animals are hit by high velocity bullets. The classic case would be when a small (say about 100 pound), relaxed, deer or antelope is hit by a 130 grain .270 bullet at short to medium range. Sometimes the animal goes down so fast that it seems as if the earth was jerked from under its feet. This is the "four feet in the air" effect. But if the same animal were frightened or excited before he was hit, he might run a considerable distance before expiring. As I said, shock can be deadly, but it is unpredictable."- Chuck Hawkes

"How an Arrow Kills
Generally speaking arrows tipped with razor sharp broadheads kill by cutting major blood vessels, both arteries and veins. This causes massive blood loss, reduced blood pressure, and loss of oxygen to the brain. This process is known as hemorrhagic shock. An animal needs to lose about one third of its blood volume for this to happen. This process can take from seconds to several hours depending on where an animal is hit. Another way in which an arrow kills is by puncturing the lungs. Lungs are contained within a pneumatic lining that is airtight and functions like a vacuum allowing the animal to breath. When the lungs are punctured this function is disrupted and the lungs collapse. The collapse of the lungs is known as a pneumo-thorax, and interrupts the exchange of oxygen in blood. When this happens the supply of oxygen to the brain is immediately interrupted and death comes within seconds. A third way that an arrow kills an animal is by cutting through the heart. Hitting the heart also causes death within seconds by stopping blood circulation, and again transport of oxygen to the brain. Since the aiming point on all big game animals is the lung area, most good shots result in a combination of these three factors. If you hit the lungs you will automatically slice through numerous veins and arteries, causing death within seconds. The same goes for a heart shot. "-Chris Eberhart

[werner.reiche]

BW - did you even read that before you posted it???

A rifle bullet kills an animal by destroying tissue, disrupting the function of vital organs or the central nervous system, causing blood loss, and perhaps by shock to the animal's system. The latter can be almost instantly fatal, or almost completely lacking, depending on circumstances beyond the hunter's control.

That's what I've been saying all along and you keep attributing to the hunter's marksmanship and the caliber's "shock".

BTW - a 265 gr .444 does far, far, far less damage to meat than a 150 grain .308.

[Blackwolf]

BW - did you even read that before you posted it???

A rifle bullet kills an animal by destroying tissue, disrupting the function of vital organs or the central nervous system, causing blood loss, and perhaps by shock to the animal's system. The latter can be almost instantly fatal, or almost completely lacking, depending on circumstances beyond the hunter's control.

That's what I've been saying all along and you keep attributing to the hunter's marksmanship and the caliber's "shock".

BTW - a 265 gr .444 does far, far, far less damage to meat than a 150 grain .308.

So what is wrong with reducing the issues we can control??? And I think I already posted a .308 150 SST, is meant for moose and Elk... not deer, as per Hornady, which is why I had a problem with the damage done to the deer I shot at 150 yards.

[LiveBates]

the 3 deer I shot in the last 4 years were with a .308 150gr and all dropped on the spot after single boiler hits. Last year I used my .243 and it took two shot but only because..................wait for it.............................a little longer................waaaiiitttt................. ........cause it wasn't sited in properly. Go!

[twostroke]

Ask FOX is his new thread titled "Head shots, the only killing shot!!!!!"

baahahahaha

[jaycee]

BTW - a 265 gr .444 does far, far, far less damage to meat than a 150 grain .308.

The guys that use them a.375 H&H Mag. on deer also say that about that cal." you can eat right up to the whole" kills deer very dead with little meat damage. Some may say that it is overkill. but it is still dead .
Incidentlly, my best friend uses a .444 and I have also seen that it does not damageas much meat as opposed to some 150 gr. 308's.

[mox72]

overkill > underkill

[Oddmott]

Haven't witnessed it myself but had many, many, MANY hunters tell me how much better the larger, slower calibres are for retaining quality meat around the enter/exit wounds.

Punches through much "softer" but takes a huge plug out of soft organs like the heart and lungs. Exactly what you want as a whitetail hunter.

Personally, a 45-70 Marlin is high on my list of must-have rifles, for that reason.

WR, if you have any detailed pics of successful harvests with your large bores, please feel free to share with me via PM. I like to know what to expect.

[welsh]

A bullet kills by destroying flesh and vital organs, thus causing shock and the brain clots. An arrow kills by bloodletting....

Causing shock. Shock, in medical terms, is a problem of blood loss. As Werner has already pointed out, you are confusing shock (the effects of major blood loss) with the fictional concept of "hydrostatic shock," whereby the impact of a bullet itself causes death. That idea has been thoroughly debunked.

Bullets kill in two ways: either they immediately disrupt the central nervous system by blowing the brain stem to Jell-O, or they cause tissue damage and you bleed to death.

" How bullets kill

A rifle bullet kills an animal by destroying tissue, disrupting the function of vital organs or the central nervous system, causing blood loss, and perhaps by shock to the animal's system. .... Chuck Hawkes

So we've established that Chuck Hawkes believes in a concept that has been thoroughly debunked. Got something from the medical literature?

[Blackwolf]

So we've established that Chuck Hawkes believes in a concept that has been thoroughly debunked. Got something from the medical literature?

Since you have debunked a world class authority, I assume you have better proof, and you are considered an expert in this feild???