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Thread: What is considered a humane kill shot ?

  1. #41
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    My dad used to claim that he shot his 30-06 so he anchored the deer, well this year he hit a nice bodied buck dead center in the heart. The thing took off and went about 150 yards with no heart left. He no longer believes in the anchor theory. His doe that he shot with the bow this year went less distance than the one shot with the rifle, 30 yards with a double lung hit vs 150 yards with a rifle shot to the heart.

    Nothing is every cut and dry, humane shots are into the vitals of the deer. If you know where the vitals are and you can hit them you will kill the animal. The size of bullet and penetration depends on the game but in Ontario we do not have any really tough animals, most game can be taken with a well placed bullet out of a center fire rifle. Tracking on the other hand can be tricky if there is no exit hole, so take that into account.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdp89 View Post
    Ill agree with this. I have limited experience in big game hunting with only 2 deer taken, but my observations will support this.
    My first deer was a doe on the run with a 12 ga slug. She was going full tilt because my buddy just spooked her. I hit her good and the blood trail was like a horror movie, but she still went a good 150 yards through the thick stuff before she piled up.
    My second deer was taken last fall with a compound. Buck walked in, totally calm with no idea I was there. I took out both lungs with the shot and he only went about 25 yards before he went down.
    I'm going to argue this one. The doe that I mentioned earlier in this thread had no clue that I was there. She was calmly grazing across a hay field and presented a perfect broadside shot to me. She was 150 yds away when she piled up.

  4. #43
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    I think shooting a deer on the run is the main reason for going over 100 meters. I have only shot one deer on the move. I usually wait till they stop. I will give kudo's to those that are able to do so. I think there are too many variables for me to add to the equation when you shoot a deer on the run. Lots of deer out there so I let them pass.

    Generally I shoot 3 white tail a year and 2 mule deer. Even in Ontario, I would shoot at least one a year. My wife shoots the same and so do my sons and daughters. So letting them pass is ok to us. Some people use a whistle to stop them or a call. Still only 2 deer have gone further than 20 yards. Rifle hunting kills by shock, not bloodletting like an arrow. You need to check how much energy your projectile has at the distance and how much ripping and tearing it will do. Some bullets will not open up at short distances and therefore little shock. This will cause a deer to travel after the shot. This of course will happen on standing deer.

    The other is to wait at least 20 minutes before seeking your kill. Usually this will give the deer enough time to expire, with no interference on its death.
    Last edited by CalTek; February 10th, 2014 at 11:57 AM. Reason: inappropriate comment

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwolf View Post
    So how many deer have YOU shot?? Keep seeing your posts on your father and your uncle. Hmmmmm!!!

    Anyway, I think shooting a deer on the run is the main reason for going over 100 meters. I have only shot one deer on the move. I usually wait till they stop. I will give kudo's to those that are able to do so. I think there are too many variables to add to the equation when you shoot a deer on the run. Lots of deer out there so I let them pass.

    Generally I shoot 3 white tail a year and 2 mule deer. Even in Ontario, I would shoot at least one a year. My wife shoots the same and so do my sons and daughters. So letting them pass is ok to us. Some people use a whistle to stop them or a call. Still only 2 deer have gone further than 20 yards. Rifle hunting kills by shock, not bloodletting like an arrow. You need to check how much energy your projectile has at the distance and how much ripping and tearing it will do. Some bullets will not open up at short distances and therefore no shock. This will cause a deer to travel after the shot.This of course will happen on standing deer.
    'shock' hydro-static shock does not kill. Blood loss and CNS damage kill. There have been a ton of studies done on this (google lethality factor, l-factor). A wide and deep (pass-through) wound channel is the most critical factor in lethality.

    Roy Weatherby sold the high speed shock theory well and sold a ton of guns with it, but fact, it is not.

    "Some bullets will not open up at short distances"? If it doesn't open up at a short range, it will not open up at a longer range either when it is travelling slower. Lots of bullets do over-expand (aka blow up) at shorter ranges.

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by werner.reiche View Post
    '

    "Some bullets will not open up at short distances"? If it doesn't open up at a short range, it will not open up at a longer range either when it is travelling slower. Lots of bullets do over-expand (aka blow up) at shorter ranges.
    This is correct. A bullet that won't expand at near muzzle velocities will expand even less downrange as it slows. This is why some bullets aren't good choices for close cover shots. They expand violently as they were desighned to perform a lower velocity. I am a firm believer in complete pass throughs and double blood loss holes. Better tracking and quicker drainage and blood pressure loss.

  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by werner.reiche View Post
    'shock' hydro-static shock does not kill. Blood loss and CNS damage kill. There have been a ton of studies done on this (google lethality factor, l-factor). A wide and deep (pass-through) wound channel is the most critical factor in lethality.

    Roy Weatherby sold the high speed shock theory well and sold a ton of guns with it, but fact, it is not.

    "Some bullets will not open up at short distances"? If it doesn't open up at a short range, it will not open up at a longer range either when it is travelling slower. Lots of bullets do over-expand (aka blow up) at shorter ranges.
    You raised some interesting points. So I called Hornady Tech. What they said was:
    1. Bullets require enough energy to cause bloodletting and thus cause shock. If your deer shot while standing travels more than 25-50 yards, you have not hit enough vitals or there is not enough energy in the bullet to cause shock
    2. A 3006, as an example, shot at a deer under 50 yards will not open enough to cause enough damage to vitals to create the shock required.

    So to conclude, you need to select the proper caliber of bullet and distance with the right energy. From the manufacturers mouth.
    Also,

    My problem of shooting deer in the boiler room and having them cut apart he says that the 150 grain SST light mag, was not designed for deer, and would, if shot from a .308, would cut it in half. Wrong ammunition for deer, better suited for moose or elk. So weiner, no B.S.
    Last edited by Blackwolf; February 10th, 2014 at 12:11 PM.

  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwolf View Post
    You raised some interesting points. So I called Hornady Tech. What they said was:
    1. Bullets require enough energy to cause bloodletting and thus cause shock. If your deer shot while standing travels more than 25-50 yards, you have not hit enough vitals or there is not enough energy in the bullet to cause shock
    2. A 3006, as an example, shot at a deer under 50 yards will not open enough to cause enough damage to vitals to create the shock required.

    So to conclude, you need to select the proper caliber of bullet and distance with the right energy. From the manufacturers mouth.
    Also,

    My problem of shooting deer in the boiler room and having them cut apart he says that the 150 grain SST light mag, was not designed for deer, and would, if shot from a .308, would cut it in half. Wrong ammunition for deer, better suited for moose or elk. So weiner, no B.S.
    "Bloodletting thus causing shock". This is hypovolemic shock, exactly the same shock as is induced by a broadhead and is commonly known as "bleeding to death".

    All I have to read about your hornady tech is " 3006, as an example, shot at a deer under 50 yards will not open enough to cause enough damage to vitals to create the shock required. " to know that a) he does not have a clue what he is talking about, and b) it is all BS.

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by werner.reiche View Post
    "B

    All I have to read about your hornady tech is " 3006, as an example, shot at a deer under 50 yards will not open enough to cause enough damage to vitals to create the shock required. " to know that a) he does not have a clue what he is talking about, and b) it is all BS.
    The only way a 3006 won't open up at 50 yds is if the bullet is a solid that doesn't expand. The closer the impact to the muzzle the more the projectile will expand. Sorry BW but you have it backwards when it comes to short range bullet performance. A bullet that performs adequately at the ranges you normally hunt out West could fail from over expansion at the 50 yd range. I can't believe a Hornady tech doesn't know this stuff?

  10. #49
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    I took a doe this year with my Savage ML and a PR 260 grain Dead center bullet at 70 yards. It was a clean shot. Both Lungs and the top of the heart destroyed. The doe dropped on the spot, tail twitched for a few seconds and that was it. Entry wound was 3.5 inches and exit was 2 inches. Two ribs were gone on entry and one gone on exit.

    I have made the exact same shot on a buck at 125 yards with my Savage 220 leaving a 1" entry and 2" exit, heart and lungs gone but it still ran 80 yards....

    I have no idea why some drop and others run but I know I did my part!

  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by welsh View Post
    If the shot was within your capability and you intended to kill the animal cleanly, then that's all you can control.
    This sums it up for me. If I do everything in my power to insure a safe, clean, quick kill - that's as humane as I can get.

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