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Thread: Distress Call - What's happening to our moose? OOD Hunting Annual

  1. #121
    Leads by example

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    Hence why I hunt Quebec. Ontario will never see another dollar of mine for moose. Quebec has it right, the management is above par compared to Ontario and other provinces. The mandatory reporting of every animal taken has/does help with the management, they take hunter input on management ideas, no offence to natives, but there is no native hunt, they are to hunt under the same rules and regulations as the non natives, in most cases its two licences required per one moose (three in some areas), seasons are generally a couple weeks not months, they acknowledge the predators and adjust seasons and limits to regulate on a yearly basis, biologists and wildlife techs spend all year in the bush doing research not just flying around in a chopper a couple times a winter, they create habitats (ie: controlled cuts) to keep animals healthy during harsh conditions if needed, and unlike Ontario aren't concerned about the revenue, they will make whatever changes necessary to keep the population of game stable.

    example: A moose hunt in our ZEC generally is as follows: three licences for one moose, moose allowed would be bulls only and every second year would be bull, cow, and calf.
    Recently the area had experienced an increase in "dry cow" harvest between the years of 2007-2010, in 2011 they implemented a cow draw for residents only until 2017 for x number of tags per year. Since then the number of cows have increased as well as cows with calves have increased drastically in two years, and now to help build the population even further, they have prohibited a calf harvest for the next two years. So yes for me, it will be bull only hunting for the next two years, which I'm ok with. Point being, issues are addressed immediately to benefit the population, they don't talk about it for years and only play with tag numbers.


    Ontario could learn a thing or two from this system, and if they want to maintain any kind of moose hunt in the province, there are some changes to be made immediately.
    Last edited by cumminsdsl; September 20th, 2014 at 12:16 PM.
    If hunting is a sport, than I'm an athlete.

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  3. #122
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    Having a ZEC system would be the best. A well managed ZEC is profitable, and there is $ incentive to ensure healthy population levels. It also eliminates turf wars between hunt groups on crown land.

  4. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by cumminsdsl View Post
    Hence why I hunt Quebec. Ontario will never see another dollar of mine for moose. Quebec has it right, the management is above par compared to Ontario and other provinces. The mandatory reporting of every animal taken has/does help with the management, they take hunter input on management ideas, no offence to natives, but there is no native hunt, they are to hunt under the same rules and regulations as the non natives, in most cases its two licences required per one moose (three in some areas), seasons are generally a couple weeks not months, they acknowledge the predators and adjust seasons and limits to regulate on a yearly basis, biologists and wildlife techs spend all year in the bush doing research not just flying around in a chopper a couple times a winter, they create habitats (ie: controlled cuts) to keep animals healthy during harsh conditions if needed, and unlike Ontario aren't concerned about the revenue, they will make whatever changes necessary to keep the population of game stable.

    example: A moose hunt in our ZEC generally is as follows: three licences for one moose, moose allowed would be bulls only and every second year would be bull, cow, and calf.
    Recently the area had experienced an increase in "dry cow" harvest between the years of 2007-2010, in 2011 they implemented a cow draw for residents only until 2017 for x number of tags per year. Since then the number of cows have increased as well as cows with calves have increased drastically in two years, and now to help build the population even further, they have prohibited a calf harvest for the next two years. So yes for me, it will be bull only hunting for the next two years, which I'm ok with. Point being, issues are addressed immediately to benefit the population, they don't talk about it for years and only play with tag numbers.


    Ontario could learn a thing or two from this system, and if they want to maintain any kind of moose hunt in the province, there are some changes to be made immediately.
    Great post and information. I wholeheartedly agree!

  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by cumminsdsl View Post
    Hence why I hunt Quebec. Ontario will never see another dollar of mine for moose. Quebec has it right, the management is above par compared to Ontario and other provinces. The mandatory reporting of every animal taken has/does help with the management, they take hunter input on management ideas, no offence to natives, but there is no native hunt, they are to hunt under the same rules and regulations as the non natives, in most cases its two licences required per one moose (three in some areas), seasons are generally a couple weeks not months, they acknowledge the predators and adjust seasons and limits to regulate on a yearly basis, biologists and wildlife techs spend all year in the bush doing research not just flying around in a chopper a couple times a winter, they create habitats (ie: controlled cuts) to keep animals healthy during harsh conditions if needed, and unlike Ontario aren't concerned about the revenue, they will make whatever changes necessary to keep the population of game stable.

    example: A moose hunt in our ZEC generally is as follows: three licences for one moose, moose allowed would be bulls only and every second year would be bull, cow, and calf.
    Recently the area had experienced an increase in "dry cow" harvest between the years of 2007-2010, in 2011 they implemented a cow draw for residents only until 2017 for x number of tags per year. Since then the number of cows have increased as well as cows with calves have increased drastically in two years, and now to help build the population even further, they have prohibited a calf harvest for the next two years. So yes for me, it will be bull only hunting for the next two years, which I'm ok with. Point being, issues are addressed immediately to benefit the population, they don't talk about it for years and only play with tag numbers.


    Ontario could learn a thing or two from this system, and if they want to maintain any kind of moose hunt in the province, there are some changes to be made immediately.
    Sure sounds like they are doing it right, but I have a question. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought most First Nation treaty hunting and fishing rights were federally controlled, not provincial. If Quebec has somehow managed to circumvent this, then Ontario should grow a set and implement some of the same practices to better manage the herd. But when it comes to natives, I really can't see Queens Park doing anything.

    The one big complaint I hear from Quebeckers and foreigners (anyone else) alike, is that because there is no party hunting, when the 2-3 tags are used, you are forced to stop hunting moose, which for me would be a major deterrent considering the time and money spent on a week long moose hunt. At the very least there better be some real good fishing or even bear hunting available if I use my tag in the first couple of days and have to sit around on my arse for the rest of the week.

    Cheers
    Smitty

    Straight shooter

  6. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by smitty55 View Post
    Sure sounds like they are doing it right, but I have a question. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought most First Nation treaty hunting and fishing rights were federally controlled, not provincial. If Quebec has somehow managed to circumvent this, then Ontario should grow a set and implement some of the same practices to better manage the herd. But when it comes to natives, I really can't see Queens Park doing anything.

    The one big complaint I hear from Quebeckers and foreigners (anyone else) alike, is that because there is no party hunting, when the 2-3 tags are used, you are forced to stop hunting moose, which for me would be a major deterrent considering the time and money spent on a week long moose hunt. At the very least there better be some real good fishing or even bear hunting available if I use my tag in the first couple of days and have to sit around on my arse for the rest of the week.

    Cheers
    I am not sure as to how they have regulated the natives, but do know there are only two areas in the southern part of the province that natives can execute their harvest right, and is still watched closely by the MNRF. The camp that is next to us (2km away) is owned by a native (also a Québec resident) and he hunts and fishes Algonquin Park and elsewhere in Ontario every year because they can "do what they want". I am keeping in his good books though, so I can purchase his camp when he finally decides to sell, lol.

    And yes, unfortunately once your tag is on an animal, your hunt for that species is over. We generally hunt birds, fish, cut wood, work on the camp and stands/trails, and of course have the odd pint, sometimes even before 11am.

    Saying that, we generally have no more than 6 guys in our camp and even though we would be allowed, we don't shoot more than one (unless a calf), mainly for our own management and our deer hunt usually fills the freezer. But I will ask if one can still go alongside someone that is still legal to hunt and call or something.
    If hunting is a sport, than I'm an athlete.

  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishFrenzy View Post


    Only 1 in 5 natives live on the reserve, so your notion that the population booms are happening in areas outside of city centres would be wrong. Just like the vast majority of Canadians, I live where there is work (the GTA) and an opportunity to provide for my family.

    You can feel however you would like, but keep in mind not even biologists have a grasp on what factors are contributing to the decline. Pointing fingers at one group (natives, cross-bow hunters, lazy people not retrieving dead animals, ect....) isn't going to solve the issue. If you're concerned, write your MPP, the OFAH, and the MNR; have your voice heard. Only once people understand the issue can we begin to solve it. All groups within Ontario have a vested interest in the preservation of our heritage and culture - despite what many think, the Native community cares a great deal about wild game and the environment.

    FishFrenzy
    I don't think anyone is pointing a single finger, there are multiple issues but unfortunately there is a lack of data. As good stewards of the land I believe Natives and non-Natives should be reporting kills until we can figure this out.

    I agree that the example of one Native member taking 11 moose before the season opens is not representative but a few cases of this in an area can severely impact populations.

    You are right that only 1 in 5 Ontario Natives live on reserves yet nearly 50% (140k) enjoy the same hunting rights of those who live on reserves (Status). There are about 125k Natives living in cities in Southern Ontario. Its probably safe to say that 150k or 50% of the Native population in Ontario is within reasonable distance (weekend/day trip) to moose hunting grounds (most of which are likely status). That's a pretty big pool of potential hunters not to mention those Native hunters who are willing to travel from southern Ontario just like me.

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