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Thread: a serious talk about steelhead.

  1. #1
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    Default a serious talk about steelhead.

    I am consistently confused by the use of the name steelhead to describe great lakes Rainbow Trout.
    I understand the layman using colloquialisms, i do this all the time!
    i grew up hunting "chickens"/"partridge" which are really grouse. and i am one of those people that has never said "walleye" in his life, i call them "pickerel" i get it.
    but this magazine does NOT adopt any of these nicknames, why then does it adopt the false name of steelhead for great lakes rainbow trout?
    and finally to all the people that are going to light me on fire for this, PLEASE, stop saying that they are anadromous, THEY ARE NOT. Steelhead are anadromous, the rainbow trout of the great lakes are not anadromous, they are potamodromous, meaning they never live in saltwater, they spawn from freshwater, to freshwater.
    there are no ontario fishing records for steelhead, BECAUSE WE DONT HAVE ANY STEELHEAD IN ONTARIO.
    it's maddening this magazine should be above this.
    http://www.ofah.org/fishing/ofah-ont...-fish-registry

    i have never read an article about partridge in your magazine or about pickerel, they are always referred to as grouse and walleye. so why am i reading all of these articles about steelhead?

    your magazine should make a bigger attempt at being educational. i understand that calling them steelhead is pervasive in southern ontario, but that doesn't make them steelhead. just as us northerners calling them pickerel doesn't make it so.

    please explain the reasoning behind this?
    i am assuming the answer is going to be "to help the reader distinguish between great lakes rainbows and rainbows in the rest of the province, but frankly that is just lazy.

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    Genetically they are all the same - Rainbow vs. steelhead in Ontario - It's the same species. Who cares.

    OK there are definitely differences between a small lake caught rainbow and a great lakes river run rainbow, the observable physical differences, must obviously be due to their living conditions, ie. - small lake vs. great lake, or schooling baitfish as a food source, vs invertebrates, whatever!

    If you go to BC and catch a stealhead and put its hatchlings half into small lakes, and half into the great lakes you'll quickly observe this.

    What about the pacific salmon we have in the great lakes - they are or were an anadromous species regardless of where you put them, so are speckled trout, and stealhead.


    So what do you propose we call these great lakes rainbows, that are obviously physically different than the small lake rainbows?

    How about Chrome-heads? - LOL

    Here is another scenario for you

    Speckled trout live in ponds, lakes, oceans, rivers, and great lakes. They are all still speckled trout. The ones that run up the rivers from the ocean we refer to them as sea run speckled trout, the ones in the great lakes are called coaster speckled trout, and the rest are called just speckled trout, or brook trout or in newfoundland - Mud Trout.

    We fishermen are obviously smart enough to know differences in species to species, and differences within a species.

    When you see records for speckled trout it doesn't matter what subspecies it is, should it be the same for rainbow trout?

    What about the Atlantic salmon now found on the pacific coast, should we continue to call them Atlantic salmon now that they are not in the Atlantic

    I hope you understand what I'm getting at here, who gives a rats arse. We know what were talking about, some people like to get a bit too nitpickey.

    As far as I'm concerned the Magazine does make the correct distinction for the audience, in Ontario we have two physically different type of rainbow, and the name chosen for the great lakes version, is the same name that exact species is called in its homeland, where its genetics are sourced.

    MC
    Last edited by mastercaster; February 3rd, 2015 at 04:55 PM.

  4. #3
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    maybe at one point of time before all the channels and locks these rainbow did come from the atlantic into lake ontario from the st lawrence river. This is not a fact just a guess.
    "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, Teach a man to fish and he eats for the rest of his life"

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    MC,
    i am thankful and do appreciate your response.
    here's my respond. outside of southern ontario, they are NEVER referred to as Steelhead.
    it is understood worldwide that steelhead are anadromous. great lakes fish are are not. If you want to be the itty bitty community in the entire world using a certain name, that's fine(i have done the same with partridge.) but a magazine should not be a part of it.
    As a pickerel is really a walleye, a steelhead is really a rainbow trout.

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    Rainbow NEVER cam from the antlantic, they are an non-native speicies that we put here.
    They are the same as Asian carp, except we want them here.... they don't belong here.
    Rainbows were transplanted and never belonged here. they stay because they are popular and make money. but they are an non-native species just like asian carp.
    the difference is, no one wants asian carp, they want rainbows, so we pick our invasive non-native species

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    Quote Originally Posted by flytyermiller View Post
    here's my respond. outside of southern ontario, they are NEVER referred to as Steelhead.
    Sorry, but that's simply untrue. The same distinction is made in the Great Lakes states: rainbow are resident fish, steelhead migratory.

    If you want to get picky, there is no such thing as a steelhead, period, because there is no genetic marker to distinguish anadromous west coast fish from their resident brethren.
    "The language of dogs and birds teaches you your own language."
    -- Jim Harrison (1937 - 2016)

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    that is a ridiculous statement, all rainbow trout or steelhead migrate to spawn. the difference is that steelhead AROUND THE WORLD are known as anadromous. rainbows are understood as potamodromous.... ALL fish by these names spawn in rivers and streams. they all migrate... you're reading the wrong books.
    ALL major organizations agree with this fact.
    It is a Worldwide understanding outside of southern ontario. the provincial fishing records do not even refer to Steelhead, so why does this magazine?

    Can we not agree that our magazine should use national (if not worldwide) terms when describing fish?
    i don't expect to see articles about snakes (northern pike) in the future. or partridge (ruffed grouse) so why is it acceptable to adopt this nickname???
    certainly there is no scientific/gentic differentiation, but why not adopt the understood norm? when the fact is, only a small pocket of ontario in the entire world, uses this language.....
    as i've said before, why no articles about pickerel???? it's the same thing....

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    "Southern ontario pays the bills" so that's why the term is used? is that it? i'm ok with that, i just want to hear someone say it..

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    Quote Originally Posted by flytyermiller View Post
    It is a Worldwide understanding outside of southern ontario. the provincial fishing records do not even refer to Steelhead, so why does this magazine?
    Again, and without being polite this time: BS. You don't know what you're talking about.

    This is not "a worldwide understanding." Every American fly-fishing magazine refers to migratory Great Lakes rainbows as steelhead. Any number of American websites do the same. This usage is not in any way restricted to southern Ontario.

    Some examples, since obviously you won't take my word for it.
    The Steelhead Site, based in Illinois and focusing on Great Lakes fishing:
    https://steelheadsite.com/
    University of Michigan site with lesson plan on Great Lakes steelhead:
    http://www.miseagrant.umich.edu/less...for-steelhead/
    Michigan DNR page on steelhead:
    http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...5692--,00.html
    John Nagy, American steelhead guide:
    http://www.johnnagysteelheadguide.com/
    Rio lines article on Great Lakes steelhead:
    http://www.rioproducts.com/blog/wint...ete-humphreys/

    I'd suggest you take two and a half minutes to check into this. "Steelhead" for migratory rainbows is not southern Ontario slang. It's common usage throughout the Great Lakes region.

    Whether or not the fish genuinely are "steelhead" is irrelevant, especially given that there is no genetic difference between an anadromous steelhead and a resident rainbow trout. You have said that only in southern Ontario are migratory rainbows called "steelhead." I have just proven you are full of it.

    Is there anything left to say here?
    "The language of dogs and birds teaches you your own language."
    -- Jim Harrison (1937 - 2016)

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by flytyermiller View Post

    Can we not agree that our magazine should use national (if not worldwide) terms when describing fish?
    only a small pocket of ontario in the entire world, uses this language...
    What is the name of the magazine?
    Worldwide out of doors?
    How is it one careless cigarette can cause a forest fire, but it takes a whole box of matches to light a campfire?

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