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Thread: This is why we need to fight ISIS

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBen View Post
    Ok, maybe some "common sense"?

    We all know religion is the root cause for many of the worlds problems, historically and presently.

    Have Christians done similar? Well yes, just look at the with hunts and inquisition and what they did to those who followed "my" "religion". Look at what Christians did to Native North Americans and Inca's to..

    But lets focus on today.
    I don't see Christians today...at least not in the name of religion...
    I do see a group hell bent on getting their way....again, not unlike the West sticking their noses into their lives, but before we blame the US for that...Boy we sure do enjoy the fruits and benefits don't we.

    Pick a side imo, this one isn't going to go away.
    I have to pick humanity, I do not believe that the majority of people are bad or that any group are bad. I have jewish, muslim, black, brown, asian, white and native friends, they are good people and anyone attacking them as a member of a group that is by far the minority and obviously missing a few screws upstairs causes me problems.

    With ISIL we are talking about a high number of 100,000 fighters of a total population of muslim followers listed around 1.6 billion worldwide. It is by no means a large group of people and by no means the religion.

    Some muslim countries are actually some of the most progressive, but they don't make the news.

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  3. #22
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    Fox do you really "believe" it will end there, even if we can somehow stop ISIL in it's tracks? Which we need to do.

    Now, I for one do not believe Islam will do it violently, nor do "we" need to use violence either. But if we don't start standing up for "our way of life", we will see Islam "take over"...See the way we are afraid to say boo here in Canada. The ways in which they are "assimiliating"....not unlike the Christains did hundreds of years ago. We are seeing it...

    I'm all for "religious freedom". This is Canada, the Western world....If you don't like it....Don't try to change us, don't expect to force "your way" on us......don't come.
    Last edited by JBen; September 2nd, 2015 at 10:36 AM.

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBen View Post
    Fox do you really "believe" it will end there, even if we can somehow stop ISIL in it's tracks? Which we need to do.

    Now, I for one do not believe Islam will do it violently, nor do "we" need to use violence either. But if we don't start standing up for "our way of life", we will see Islam "take over"...See the way we are afraid to say boo here in Canada. The ways in which they are "assimiliating"....not unlike the Christains did hundreds of years ago. We are seeing it...

    I'm all for "religious freedom". This is Canada, the Western world....If you don't like it....Don't try to change us, don't expect to force "your way" on us......don't come.
    I am for stopping them but I am not for blaming Islam for them, this is where I have the problem.

    I feel that we need to stand up for those who cannot stand for themselves and fight the atrocities but to read on here "nuke them" it scares the crap out of me, these comments are mirroring what these crazies are doing in the middle east and this is not a way of stopping things but rather escalating things.

    I think that all religion needs to go away, too many people use religion as a way of brainwashing people and causing a lot of the crap in this world. If people used religion as a way to live that is fine but there are too many situations where comments like "our way of life" and "Islam will take over" that shows how religious freedom is not allowed. If someone wants to practice Islam then who cares, if someone wants to practice Christianity then who cares but to judge another for their choice of religion is a problem.

    You say that "if you don't like it ... Don't try to change us, don't expect to force "your way" on us...don't come." Where was this when the natives were killed for not converting. Where was this when Muslims doing nothing wrong have their mosques defaced and what about the crimes towards Jews for just practicing the Jewish religion.

    Don't change but don't force your beliefs down any ones throats no matter what your beliefs are, live and let live.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    I am for stopping them but I am not for blaming Islam for them, this is where I have the problem.

    I feel that we need to stand up for those who cannot stand for themselves and fight the atrocities but to read on here "nuke them" it scares the crap out of me, these comments are mirroring what these crazies are doing in the middle east and this is not a way of stopping things but rather escalating things.

    I think that all religion needs to go away, too many people use religion as a way of brainwashing people and causing a lot of the crap in this world. If people used religion as a way to live that is fine but there are too many situations where comments like "our way of life" and "Islam will take over" that shows how religious freedom is not allowed. If someone wants to practice Islam then who cares, if someone wants to practice Christianity then who cares but to judge another for their choice of religion is a problem.

    You say that "if you don't like it ... Don't try to change us, don't expect to force "your way" on us...don't come." Where was this when the natives were killed for not converting. Where was this when Muslims doing nothing wrong have their mosques defaced and what about the crimes towards Jews for just practicing the Jewish religion.

    Don't change but don't force your beliefs down any ones throats no matter what your beliefs are, live and let live.
    "Nuke them" scares the crap out of me,too. I think these comments come from people who have no concept of the global destruction that will surely ensue. Tarring the entire Muslim religion with the same brush of "radical Islam" is equally wrong.
    However,I believe we must guard our own landmarks against pacifistic tendencies by our own liberal-minded people who become the radical's apologists and enablers banging the drum of political correctness,bullying people into following their warped conformist views by accusations of "racism" when we speak out and public vilification as a punitive action. These are the enemy who,by their actions against ordinary people who speak out,embolden the home-grown lunatic/terrorist fringe who already walk among us,to ghastly acts of incredible violence.
    As far as fighting ISIS/ISIL,I don't understand why this isn't total war against them. It's not like they're a well-euipped and supplied 1Million man army that's laid siege to the entire middle east. It appears to me that they're operating in cells throughout the middle east with a fragmented command and control system which should be relatively easy to interrupt and destroy. They must be getting supplies from somewhere because most of the weaponry left over from the American withdrawl in Iraq has been destroyed. We need to find the suppliers and send them to hell ASAP. Expecting a rag-tag,poorly-trained and thoroughly corrupted army of Iraqis and Kurds to do the job of a few hundred thousand seasoned combat troops is beyond stupid. It smacks of typical Liberal/Democrat inability to make hard decisions and to take definitive action.
    Last edited by trimmer21; September 2nd, 2015 at 11:37 AM. Reason: sp

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by trimmer21 View Post
    As far as fighting ISIS/ISIL,I don't understand why this isn't total war against them. It's not like they're a well-euipped and supplied 1Million man army that's laid siege to the entire middle east. It appears to me that they're operating in cells throughout the middle east with a fragmented command and control system which should be relatively easy to interrupt and destroy. They must be getting supplies from somewhere because most of the weaponry left over from the American withdrawl in Iraq has been destroyed. We need to find the suppliers and send them to hell ASAP. Expecting a rag-tag,poorly-trained and thoroughly corrupted army of Iraqis and Kurds to do the job of a few hundred thousand seasoned combat troops is beyond stupid.
    This is probably political as they span many nations. Syria is not a fan of the west and the west is not a fan of them, Iraq is a mixed bag at the moment and Turkey is iffy too.

    You cannot open all the companies up to a general war when they do not get along in the first place.

    To say that area is complex is a huge understatement.

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    I am for stopping them but I am not for blaming Islam for them, this is where I have the problem.

    I feel that we need to stand up for those who cannot stand for themselves and fight the atrocities but to read on here "nuke them" it scares the crap out of me, these comments are mirroring what these crazies are doing in the middle east and this is not a way of stopping things but rather escalating things.

    I think that all religion needs to go away, too many people use religion as a way of brainwashing people and causing a lot of the crap in this world. If people used religion as a way to live that is fine but there are too many situations where comments like "our way of life" and "Islam will take over" that shows how religious freedom is not allowed. If someone wants to practice Islam then who cares, if someone wants to practice Christianity then who cares but to judge another for their choice of religion is a problem.

    You say that "if you don't like it ... Don't try to change us, don't expect to force "your way" on us...don't come." Where was this when the natives were killed for not converting. Where was this when Muslims doing nothing wrong have their mosques defaced and what about the crimes towards Jews for just practicing the Jewish religion.

    Don't change but don't force your beliefs down any ones throats no matter what your beliefs are, live and let live.
    First: nice post.
    Second: Notice my use of quotes as in "our way" or "forcing their way"...Why do suppose I quoted select terms?
    Third: Would it be acceptable for example, if big swaths of the Western World starting emigrating to say for example Japan and while we might want to maintain some of our customs/beleifs/practices..without persectution/other....expect to force our ideals into and on Japanese society? I'm going to assume you see why not, why wouldn't...Curious it seems ( I could be wrong) you are ok with that here? Do you think "westerners" should be able to emigrate to say Saudi Arabia, especially women and prance around in thongs and topless?

    Lastly: There we go again, back to history aka Where was this when the natives were killed for not converting.

    Well I didn't live back then, nor did you, nor did todays society. I'd like to think we are learning that forcing ones ideals be it Islam into our society (and by that I mean expecting special treatment, or PC ness and no more 'merry Christmas" or being offended by Christian Prayers but demanding.....or Burqas, etc, etc, etc) or as with Animal rights activist wanting to force their ideals on hunters, or Western ideals on the Mid east, and now them us and wanting to kill us all... or Zimbabwe or...So many things.

    This isn't the 1500s or even the 1900s anymore.
    Last edited by JBen; September 2nd, 2015 at 12:10 PM.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBen View Post
    ...
    This isn't the 1500s or even the 1900s anymore.
    Really great posts; not going to rehash what was already said.
    However, what do you mean by the last statement?
    I bet history will repeat itself again (unfortunately). The only difference I can see is the pace that it is happening and that people are far more informed than ever. However, at the same time, the future victims (the western world) are less interested to protect their own interests (freedom, way of living, etc.) than any generation before.
    This and examples of the past have nothing to do with religious freedom. So, religion needs to be taken out of the equation in the first place.
    This is a war-like scenario: black and white. You may not like it, but that's how they see it, and there is no doubt that they are a threat to humanity. As long as we keep talking, I have friend who is this and that and a nice guy, we are not in a position to defend our society. So, in the end we all need to fess up what our position is - and that includes foremost Muslims. IMHO, if you wear a burqa, I doubt you oppose ISIS and the like.

  9. #28
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  10. #29
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    What I meant by that Waftrudnir, was in part....By looking at... well they did it, we did it and assigning some kind of blame or justification (not sure how to phrase it)..What have we learned?
    This is the present day and what happened 100 years ago, or 500 years ago....and subsequently.....have we not learned from the hatfields and McCoys?

    Anytime these things come up, there are references to past societies...Are we the same?

    In many ways, while I don't hold a lot of hope for humanity, we can see some changes, maybe/hopefully it's a slow tide but we are seeing the beginnings. Many, very many are turning from religion and instead finding 'spirituality" what ever the basis for that is. For me its my own set of "faiths" and can find it's roots in Paganism, Buddhism and some FNs. Many others are turning to Bhuddaism/Hindu.

    While the world went bat shyte crazy over 'Cecil"....one group trying to force their ideals on others..there we go again..many more argued we can't force 1st world ideals, on 3rd world societies...People are learning.

    peace to all mankind.
    /sarcasm but ironically funny to.

    We can no more bring our ideals, or force our ideals on others than they can us. and while the problems surrounding ISIL do need to handled by the sword....it wont stop there...unless we stand up for ourselves, our society. We can accept people who practice Islam into our society, no differently than we do other different religions or cultures....There's a world of difference between being accepting and tolerant and being compliant doormats. We sure as heck wouldn't expect to go there, and live as we do would we...or Japan or
    Last edited by JBen; September 2nd, 2015 at 01:32 PM.

  11. #30
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    The problem is anybody who tries to stand up for their own morals and beliefs which in North America and much of Europe is Cristianity there is a large part of the population that calls them bigots. If one tries to promote Cristian beliefs in a muslin country quite often they are attacked at best sometimes savagely murdered. There may be only a small percentage of evil extremists but if there are billions of peaceful moderates then surely they have the strength to crush this evil? You need to have the will to do so though. I don't see enough Muslim moderate strength intervening. Very telling.
    ISIL will continue and dream up increasingly barbaric ways of treating victims. It's time for a major global assault on that group. We need to kill every one we can. Hopefully peaceful Islamist countries help.
    Last edited by terrym; September 2nd, 2015 at 03:42 PM.
    Iím suspicious of people who don't like dogs, but I trust a dog who doesn't like a person.

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