License Sales Down

[Waftrudnir]

...
The quote from the MNRF Senior Media Relations Officer Jolanta Kowalski "We suspect it is a combination of factors including demographics, the economy, the cost of licenses and hunting, tags (availability and allocation) seasons and other things"
...

Fact is that with the exception of resident deer tags, everything is significantly down. The question is what is the MNRF going to do? Certainly quite a few things beyond their control (demographics, economy), but some things can be fixed in the long run, unfortunately they would require significant investment and change (moose population).

So I wonder what are those that can be fixed in the short run; e.g.
a) extended seasons (e.g. rifle/open season),
b) lowering the cost of licenses (or combining licences; i.e. buy greatly discounted 3 year license with small game, 2 bear/a, 1 deer/a, 1 turkey/a, 1 moose/3a etc.),
c) simplification of regulations (they don't need to deter the general public anylonger; hunter # are on the decline).

Now is the time to start initiatives; some US jurisdictions have done so successfully.
We should not forget that our population is on the rise, so in relative terms, hunter decline is more dramatic as the absolute numbers suggest.

[JBen]

Would love to take you up Snowwalker.

Deer numbers (hunters and deer)...who knows "really". We hunt 47. Last year (2014), there were noticeably fewer deer and a lot fewer "road hunters" as the locals call them, if I recall there were just 2 camps..This year, the road in was filled with roadside camps and almost no deer.

Wonder about the point Snowwalker raised. Im on a bit of a mission to do more hunting/fishing. Theres 365 days in a year and getting out for Deer/Bear and the odd WF outing...It's all squeezed in to just a few months.
Rabbit
Grouse (other upland)
partridge now
Squirrel
yet for some reason (access??) nowhere near as popular

[werner.reiche]

Unfortunately JBen.. because there is little mandatory reporting of Deer hunting....and according to some posters on this forum, little interest in filling out the voluntary questionnaires, the MNR doesn't know the success rates, at least in numbers that would provide usable data.

That's one thing I don't understand - we b!tch that the MNR doesn't know what they are doing, but we don't want to give them more information.

The one thing hunter surveys don't take into account is the effect of temperature, weather (and moon cycle - if you believe that stuff) has on the number of deer seen and taken. But if the MNR had long term numbers on deer observations and harvest, they could factor it in. Computers can do wonders with numbers.

[x_xeon_x]

Regarding the OMNRF getting information from hunters, this year they've started doing mandatory questionnaires for the Southern On controlled hunt, a step in the right direction for PROPER management. It really should be expanded to all of Ontario for all large game species, not just black bear and elk. With all the issues the OMNRF is having with moose populations you have to wonder why they are only doing mandatory surveys in 5 WMUs. You would think it would be the cheapest approach considering they've got no money to fly around counting moose.

[DanO]

You have to remember how much the costs have gone up compared to the wages. With the decrease in success rates, increase in cost of living and less than that cost of living increase in wages I can see why a lot of people are doing a cost analysis. The majority of people in the province are not longer on the farms and have to travel to hunt, they then need a vehicle that can get their game home and in most cases they have to pay to have it processed as lots of residences do not have the facilities for home butchering.

When you look at the cost of a license to hunt, the cost of a rifle or shotgun, the cost of the courses, the vehicle, the time away from work, for a lot of people it comes down to dollars and cents because they do not have another option. Unlike in Europe hunt in Canada has generally been something that was done by farmers and lower income groups to fill their freezers, with the way things are going we are switching to a pay to play situation where only the rich will be part of the hunting clubs (where crown land does not exist) and all of the rest of us will be left out to dry.

I couldn't agree more Fox! I just assumed most hunters know that it's not cheaper to hunt your food (in most cases). I'd done the same calculations for fishing.

[Fox]

I couldn't agree more Fox! I just assumed most hunters know that it's not cheaper to hunt your food (in most cases). I'd done the same calculations for fishing.

Back in my grandpas day it was cheaper, it can still be cheaper but not for a lot of hunting. I actually had this chat with a friend of mine, deer hunting is still not horrible, if you get 1 deer for 4 people then you still end up with meat at about $2/lb based on the license cost, assuming your guns and gear are part of you hobby and not included. If you just look at the license cost though a turkey coming in at 40% yield would give you 8lbs of meat for a 20lb bird and run you almost $4/lb, if you get a jake or a fall hen you are going even higher. We were chatting about it because waterfowl has not changed much in years, we can go out hunting for geese and shoot 5 a day every day from Sept 25th to Dec 31st, not including the early season. $17 for migratory birds and we don't have to pay a fee to Wynne to get it. I think we have close to 100lbs of goose meat in the freezer to mix with pork for sausage, not including what was eaten throughout the year, 17 cents a pound for meat, you can hunt for food if you hunt migratory birds.

[JBen]

One reason why I share similar thoughts to Snowwalker Fox.
Deer hunts are getting expensive if you don't have land. Small game might ( I say might because I haven't done it myself) be a good way to get out hunting throughout the year and put some meat in the freezer. Next fall I'm hoping life will allow me to get up north for a weekend of grouse and walleye fishing. If I can find area's to hunt rabbit and squirrel, all the better.

Is it too expensive though? Well depends on what other "priorities" a person has.
Even if one plays economical golf courses, say $50 a round.
30 rounds over spring/summer/fall is $3,000, not mentioning incidentals (balls beer hamburgers)

[redd foxx]

I just assumed most hunters know that it's not cheaper to hunt your food (in most cases).

Unfortunately if most hunters think they are hunting (or fishing) to accumulate cheap meat they will be disappointed more often than not.

Personally, I hunt to spend time in and enjoy the great outdoors, relax, associate with my family and friends who enjoy the same sport/hobby as I do, watch wildlife, etc. If I harvest an animal or fish as a result....bonus. If not .....I still had a successful, enjoyable day in the outdoors. The cost doesn't matter to me when I put it in that perspective. If it was about the meat (which I happen to enjoy)....I'd quit and go to the store.

[trimmer21]

Unfortunately if most hunters think they are hunting (or fishing) to accumulate cheap meat they will be disappointed more often than not.

Personally, I hunt to spend time in and enjoy the great outdoors, relax, associate with my family and friends who enjoy the same sport/hobby as I do, watch wildlife, etc. If I harvest an animal or fish as a result....bonus. If not .....I still had a successful, enjoyable day in the outdoors. The cost doesn't matter to me when I put it in that perspective. If it was about the meat (which I happen to enjoy)....I'd quit and go to the store.

Exactly! That's why it's called hunting and not shopping.

[Fox]

One reason why I share similar thoughts to Snowwalker Fox.
Deer hunts are getting expensive if you don't have land. Small game might ( I say might because I haven't done it myself) be a good way to get out hunting throughout the year and put some meat in the freezer. Next fall I'm hoping life will allow me to get up north for a weekend of grouse and walleye fishing. If I can find area's to hunt rabbit and squirrel, all the better.

Is it too expensive though? Well depends on what other "priorities" a person has.
Even if one plays economical golf courses, say $50 a round.
30 rounds over spring/summer/fall is $3,000, not mentioning incidentals (balls beer hamburgers)

What I have been saying is that the expense of hunting is keeping people from going, there are a lot of people who will not shell out $50 to go golfing. I remember when my family had trouble just putting food on the table, dad would take a week of holidays to go hunting but that was the only vacation he ever had, never a trip south or a cruise, he would take us to see family and that was it, if we did not have a place to sleep for free and a place to cook food then we could not afford to go. This is now the reality for a lot more people, this economy is hurting families and not just the ones you would expect.

I look at people buying $2500 scopes for their guns and bad mouthing the economy brands but that scope cost was the entire grocery budget for our household growing up, it is not something that everyone has money for no matter what their priorities are and things are only getting more expensive with a lot less value for the experience.

If you had to make a choice of a deer license or putting food on your families table for a week I really hope you would buy that food and not go deer hunting.

Along these lines, I know for certain that the number of people shooting for sustenance in northern Ontario is going up and I would never call that poaching.