verdict in police shooting.

[dutchhunter]

This is very hard to understand. Not guilty of manslaughter. But guilty of attempted murder. If you attempt something and get it done .you are guilty. Please explain. .?

[terrym]

Bizzare. Maybe the point is to have it not hold up at appeal and he walks. I'm not a lawyer but this is strange.

[trimmer21]

Deadly force is authorized when Police Constables are facing an edged weapon and a subject ignores orders to drop it and/or there's no time to even issue the order (direct attack). That's a given,so,there goes the 2nd Degree Murder charge. Once the subject was down,the threat ended,therefore,firing six more shots was deliberate,unnecessary and a violation of the Criminal Code. That was what he was convicted upon because he deliberately tried to kill the subject (according to the jury.) This verdict will,no doubt,be subjected to an exhaustive appeal process,but,my guess is leave to appeal will be denied,outright and the verdict will stand. Traditionally,verdicts by a jury are almost impossible to appeal unless it can be shown that the Judge made serious errors either in procedure or law while charging the jury. If that's the case,here,an appeal will go ahead. At any rate,this sends a loud and clear message to every LEO in Canada,if you use deadly force,you damn well better not make a mistake.

[JBen]

I predict.
A lot of trouble short term and long term trust in LEO and the system becoming even worse after this.

A lot would have I think, hinged on whether or not Cirello (or the public) was in any danger. I guess the jury bought arguments Yatim could have (hypothetical) despite being contained (inside) the streetcar. Flown down the steps, onto the street, covered the 10 feet or so and knifed him, despite the precence of a handful of officers...........................

As a juror, I wouldn't have bought any argument he was in danger, so long as he remained inside the streetcar. The public at that point certainly wasn't. Had he come down and onto the street. Too bad, so sad.

Shame the jury wasn't allowed to hear how often he has drawn his gun versus the forces average.

Haven't heard anything yet on the sentencing. If its not the harshest possible, look out imo.

Sooner or later Trimmer TPS is going to have understand that they are only shooting themselves in the foot and have been since the G20.

[rick_iles]

I predict.
A lot of trouble short term and long term trust in LEO and the system becoming even worse after this.

A lot would have I think, hinged on whether or not Cirello (or the public) was in any danger. I guess the jury bought arguments Yatim could have (hypothetical) despite being contained (inside) the streetcar. Flown down the steps, onto the street, covered the 10 feet or so and knifed him, despite the precence of a handful of officers...........................

As a juror, I wouldn't have bought any argument he was in danger, so long as he remained inside the streetcar. The public at that point certainly wasn't. Had he come down and onto the street. Too bad, so sad.

Shame the jury wasn't allowed to hear how often he has drawn his gun versus the forces average.

Haven't heard anything yet on the sentencing. If its not the harshest possible, look out imo.

Sooner or later Trimmer TPS is going to have understand that they are only shooting themselves in the foot and have been since the G20.

Who are you talking about ???? No officers by that name involved.....

[JBen]

Scuze (Forcillo) am pretty sure everyone (or most) knew . But hey make it about something other than it is. Lets focus on that shall we

Other than a cop who intentionally killed someone when there was no reason to, has largely skated.

[Hunter John]

Don't know about skated JBen, Attempted murder has a min of 4 and a max of life.

[JBen]

Reading comments on various new sources, everything from the Sun, NP, Star and Huffington Post to a few others is very telling with respect to what the "public" thinks. Not hard at all to get a sense of the consensus.

Just one readers response on one new sources feed.

Our judicial system again has let the community down
As a citizen I am disgusted by the this verdict
It goes to show police are above the law
They can shoot,kill,speed,rape,have child pornography is there possession and get away with murder

Personally, what could be more telling, more troublesome is the sentencing given his defense will bring in the usual stuff that plays well in our Liberal, soft on crime courts sentences

/edit add.
Fact of the matter is the public trust in leo here is eroding, slowly but surely. Has been getting worse since the G20 when only one fairly low level scapegoat was thrown under the bus. Hell just read threads here on these forums about LEO and the RCMP with respect to gun owners, rigfhts and GC.

And one only need look south of the border to see how bad things can become.

[ninepointer]

This is very hard to understand. Not guilty of manslaughter. But guilty of attempted murder. If you attempt something and get it done .you are guilty. Please explain. .?

Give the illusion of justice to avoid a riot.

[Sharon]

Deadly force is authorized when Police Constables are facing an edged weapon and a subject ignores orders to drop it and/or there's no time to even issue the order (direct attack). That's a given,so,there goes the 2nd Degree Murder charge. Once the subject was down,the threat ended,therefore,firing six more shots was deliberate,unnecessary and a violation of the Criminal Code. That was what he was convicted upon because he deliberately tried to kill the subject (according to the jury.) This verdict will,no doubt,be subjected to an exhaustive appeal process,but,my guess is leave to appeal will be denied,outright and the verdict will stand. Traditionally,verdicts by a jury are almost impossible to appeal unless it can be shown that the Judge made serious errors either in procedure or law while charging the jury. If that's the case,here,an appeal will go ahead. At any rate,this sends a loud and clear message to every LEO in Canada,if you use deadly force,you damn well better not make a mistake.

Excellent explanation. Thanks.