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Thread: "Minister Bucks Wildlife Fund Critics"

  1. #11
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    What a lot of people don't realize is how much time and manpower us spent on non hunting and fishing activities. CO's deal with forest management infractions, forest fire investigations and many other non hunting/fishing issues. They patrol waterways and lay boating charges and snowmobile and ATV charges. The hikers and campers don't pay license fees. Boaters and ATV riders don't buy licences. Why should sportsmen shoulder the burden? In the end the reality is this government is the one that destroyed evidence of coverups. They have proven to be completely untrustworthy and will pillage ministries to give teachers raises. She already is extending the signed contracts to avoid negative press in the election year. These people just can't be trusted with our money.
    Iím suspicious of people who don't like dogs, but I trust a dog who doesn't like a person.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigTurk View Post
    Mikepal,
    Ofah claims that hunters are on the rise. Shouldn't revenue stream be on the rise??
    We did a thread on this a few years back that has lots of facts and figures ;
    http://www.oodmag.com/community/show...er-Recruitment

    Basically, there are lots of people taking the OFAH courses, but it's not translating into license sales and tags purchases...

    Trends in licence sales and participation in fishing and hunting have changed since the 1995 establishment of the Fish and Wildlife SPA. For example, the number of licenced anglers has declined over the past 15 years from 1.61M in 1995 to 1.26M in 2010 (Source: Department of Fisheries and Oceans). Based on the demographic profile of current licensees and declines in angling participation, MNR will need to reduce fish and wildlife program expenditures starting in 2015 in order to maintain a positive SPA balance
    Arte et marte (By Skill and by Fighting)...The RCEME motto

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrym View Post
    What a lot of people don't realize is how much time and manpower us spent on non hunting and fishing activities. CO's deal with forest management infractions, forest fire investigations and many other non hunting/fishing issues. They patrol waterways and lay boating charges and snowmobile and ATV charges. The hikers and campers don't pay license fees. Boaters and ATV riders don't buy licences. Why should sportsmen shoulder the burden? In the end the reality is this government is the one that destroyed evidence of coverups. They have proven to be completely untrustworthy and will pillage ministries to give teachers raises. She already is extending the signed contracts to avoid negative press in the election year. These people just can't be trusted with our money.
    Not sure why you think using the SPA as part of the operational budget, because it divest the general public from helping to pay is a good idea Mike. And ulimately, anything that benefits fish and wildlife benfits them to. Would 100s of thousands of people flock to APP alone each year if there were no Moose, no Hybrids to see or howl at? On the last, for the past 20-30 years MNR biologist have been doing surveys, deploying radio collars and more.

    Why should we pay for it/everything.............

    How much work have people and organisations like DU and Delta done. Sure Waterfolwers get to go hunting. What about the millions who benefits from enjoying the wetalnds, walking the trails, and more.....

    How many fish raising stations have been closed in the last 20 years. Know for a fact the Saugeen fishery wouldnt be much of anything these days without a lot of hard work, sweat and more of volunteers. The MNR certainly hasn't come to the table there with much. In fact, they have recently been shut down by order of the MNR. Starting now, no more raising/stocking steelehead, no more fish lifts past Dennys Dam, no more work projects..............
    Last edited by JBen; October 5th, 2016 at 05:53 AM.

  5. #14
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    Just a few days ago, there was a thread about "posting" duck blinds and shore spots for openers. It kept getting side tracked a bit by turning the conversation towards "why does the MNR allow them, they just become decrpit and pollution". Which is true, but when put into perspective ( a handful of blinds versus the mountains of pollution and more left by cottagers/weekend frolickers)......

    Think, just
    Innisfil public boat launch that had to be closed.

    Is "baloney" is it what it is. The citizens of Ontario reap enormous benefits, use and abuse the outdoors and resources like stink. Dont come even close to paying their fair share ( the lions share imo). And when you look at the expenditures, the budget for the MoE and MNRF, the "special purpose account" should be just that. An account to fund things that ordinarilarily wouldnt fall under their mandates. Be it it helping to reintroduce Turkey/ElK, or some targetted local regional habitat impovement (aka in conjuction with stakeholders/volunteers, etc, etc)

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikePal View Post
    Yea, pretty much says the same thing...the 'group' is upset to find out the budget is used to provide Salaries and Benefits. It's always been been public knowledge if they had read the annual budget reports.

    Would it make them happy if the MNR told them the staff costs came out of the 33% CRF funds rather than the 77% coming from the SPA funds ?

    Seems like there is some nonsense going on with that group; them seem ill informed and are still complaining even after the MNR spend $500k in the Aylmer district last last and another $837k this year.
    Don't think they are ill informed at all. They've been around for a while, and I'm sure they've read the budget reports, and may even by privy to info not publicly available. They have a legitimate concern about the transparency of the MNRF expenditures, and given the state of current provincial finances, I don't blame them. It's easy to lump frivolous expenses under some broad heading on a ledger.

    One example involves the Aylmer Stakeholders Committee (ASC). The ASC is a small committee formed in 1999 at the request of the Ministry of Natural Resources & Forestry (MNRF: formerly MNR). The ASC represents a group of concerned residents including about 1,400 farmers, landowners, hunters and associated fish and wildlife business representatives across Elgin, Middlesex and Oxford counties within the MNRF’s Southwestern Ontario Wildlife Management Units 91 and 92. Since 2012, the ASC has been pursuing the Ministry for a detailed breakdown of how the province is spending revenue generated by the sales of angling and hunting licences. The amount of money involved is significant – about $74 million in the 2015-16 fiscal year alone. Yet Ontario government explanations as to the disbursement of these funds have been vague at best.
    In August, the MNRF provided a 13-page statement covering 2011-12 revenues and expenditures. In the six pages of expenditures provided, there wasn’t a single mention of a fish or a wildlife species. The Ministry did say it spent $65,000 to sell and buy a house. It also spent $4,000 to pay for rental accommodations. The Ministry also spent $6,887 for "medical services," then spent another $105 for dentists; $1,772 for physicians and doctors; $12,251 for psychologists; and an additional $34,216 on "other medical services."

    With the combined SPA account generating about $74 million in 2015-16, concerned residents are now discovering there has been little transparency or accountability as to where and how that revenue has been used. In the Stakeholder Committee’s own Aylmer District, which oversees the management of five Wildlife Management Units (No. 90 to 95, tags for hunting deer generated $920,170 last year, yet no government or ministry official can offer a breakdown as to where/how those funds were reinvested in managing the district’s wildlife.


    http://www.portstanleynews.com/details/headline.aspx?menu=1024_News_News_ministry-lacks-transparency-regarding-$74-million-in-angling-hunting-revenue
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." Ernest Benn

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by delmer View Post
    They have a legitimate concern about the transparency of the MNRF expenditures, and given the state of current provincial finances, I don't blame them. It's easy to lump frivolous expenses under some broad heading on a ledger.
    I guess if your the anal type and don't accept simply that the wife spent $100 on groceries and demand to see the receipt so you can itemize what she bought for the $100... it might make sense to demand great transparency. Most folks are happy to concede that in order to eat..it costs $100.

    My issue is that they publicly threw out individual items without context; like the cost to relocate an MNR employee, aimed only to sensationalize their case. Especially when such things are common place in any dept. and they themselves have probably benefited from similar employee perks.
    Last edited by MikePal; October 5th, 2016 at 01:40 PM.
    Arte et marte (By Skill and by Fighting)...The RCEME motto

  8. #17
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    I don't find anything anal about someone questioning the spending and accounting practices of any level of government. This government is supposedly all about transparency in everything it does. Yet, when questioned specifically about something that it should be able to provide a detailed answer for, it only replies in general terms. They have been less than forthcoming in the past about finances, and that reputation is starting to get people questioning a lot of things they've done.
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." Ernest Benn

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikePal View Post
    I guess if your the anal type and don't accept simply that the wife spent $100 on groceries and demand to see the receipt so you can itemize what she bought for the $100... it might make sense to demand great transparency. Most folks are happy to concede that to in order to eat..it costs $100.
    Apples and oranges......... groceries are spend with "our" household money for "our" personal benefit, and my spouse and I have a very trusting relationship. The provincial & federal governments legally extort tax money from the taxpayer to spend on projects they've cooked up, many with a political agenda. I for one do NOT trust our government. Are you as trusting with Ontario Hydro? I bet they're books look very proper too.
    So many critters & so little time to hunt......

  10. #19
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    So just what is the purpose of knowing that the MNR bought a new truck, fixed their snowmobiles and bought a new ATV last year ?

    Why isn't it good enough to know the spent 3% of the budget on transportation cost ?

    At what level of transparency does it need to be before it becomes UFI. ?

    OMG..they bought 200 boxes of paper towels with our SPA funds !!!...LOL....
    Last edited by MikePal; October 5th, 2016 at 02:05 PM.
    Arte et marte (By Skill and by Fighting)...The RCEME motto

  11. #20
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    example..this is from the 2013 SPA Fund report...how much more transparency does the report have to provide for this particular program to make people happy ?

    Species & Ecosystem Science


    • Perform fish and wildlife population inventory monitoring and assessment such as:
    • Collect and analyze hunter surveys for deer, moose, bear, and wolf/coyote to determine the number of animals harvested and hunter effort to support management decisions.
    • Conduct Moose Aerial Surveys to determine the health of populations and the sustainable limit of harvest.
    • Conduct angler surveys, water quality testing, netting surveys and invasive species surveillance of 500 Ontario lakes to gather information and help manage fish populations.
    • Conduct long-term monitoring studies on a set of inland lakes and representative fish communities to help manage several large lakes with intensive fishing pressure.
    • Perform research relating to population, habitats and ecosystems such as:
    • Partner with hunters to test over 500 harvested deer and elk for presence of Chronic Wasting Disease. All results have been negative to date.
    • Conduct research to assess the ecological impact of invasive species on Great Lakes food webs.
    • Conduct research to improve understanding of the genetics and stock structure of recreational and commercial fish species to support hatchery practices and stocking.
    • Study wildlife populations to determine the population, habitat use, and movement patterns for a variety of game such as elk, deer, moose, wolves, furbearers, and species at risk such as caribou, some bats, field nesting birds, and aerial insectivores.
    • Publish State of the Resource Reports to describe the condition, threats, trends and management response associated with specific areas, species, habitats or issue.

    https://dr6j45jk9xcmk.cloudfront.net...accessible.pdf

    Arte et marte (By Skill and by Fighting)...The RCEME motto

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