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Thread: Looking for a hunter with a small male setter

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Tufts View Post
    Sorry folks but I have to comment on this thread. We've been breeding setters for 40 plus years and have produced some great competitive dogs.
    Breeding simply for size is a huge mistake. The secret to improving the breed is looking for what your dog lacks and crossing to an animal that passes on what you need in terms of what these dogs are bred for.
    Robert Wehle produced some of the best pointers the world has ever seen and his secret was line breeding. Yes he went outside from time to time when he recognized a trait that was proven to be passed on by the sire and he wanted to bring it into his kennel.
    Then he went back to his line and integrated that trait into his dogs. If any of you would be interested I would be glad to forward an article by Mr. Wehle on his methods.
    Well said Tim. I wish you'd post more often.
    " We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett


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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrym View Post
    I know a couple guys who run labs who look for the biggest they can find.
    Not always the best policy, as size brings problems of its own e.g. a greater risk of joint problems. I wouldn't breed for size, or buy for size, either way.

    An interesting trend in spaniels: if we compare the dogs bred by Eudore Chevrier, who originally popularized the springer in North America, to today's springer, we find the dogs have lost ten pounds. The bench springer remains larger and heavier. There's a little springer in Washington who's just carried away CMs in the Canadian national and the US national amateur, and she's little bigger than a cocker. So the trend to bigger dogs does not necessarily reflect working requirements.
    "The language of dogs and birds teaches you your own language."
    -- Jim Harrison (1937 - 2016)

  4. #23
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    Well put it this way. Of the 2 guys i mentioned with the big Labs one has blown the ligaments of both rear legs out. So yes I agree larger heavier muscled dogs are definitely at risk.
    I’m suspicious of people who don't like dogs, but I trust a dog who doesn't like a person.

  5. #24
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    Normally the problem is discussed according to breed not size. Certain breeds are more prone to dog CCL injuries, including : Labrador retrievers, Newfoundlands, German shepherds, rottweilers, and golden retrievers. However, as you said , the breeds mentioned are big dogs.
    Obese animals and those that get occasional strenuous exercise -- so-called "weekend warriors" -- may also be more likely to develop CCL injuries.

    Then again , my 35 pound setter has had 2 CCL surgeries.
    Last edited by Sharon; November 23rd, 2016 at 08:14 PM.
    " We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett


  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Tufts View Post
    Sorry folks but I have to comment on this thread. We've been breeding setters for 40 plus years and have produced some great competitive dogs.
    Breeding simply for size is a huge mistake. The secret to improving the breed is looking for what your dog lacks and crossing to an animal that passes on what you need in terms of what these dogs are bred for.
    Robert Wehle produced some of the best pointers the world has ever seen and his secret was line breeding. Yes he went outside from time to time when he recognized a trait that was proven to be passed on by the sire and he wanted to bring it into his kennel.
    Then he went back to his line and integrated that trait into his dogs. If any of you would be interested I would be glad to forward an article by Mr. Wehle on his methods.
    Robert Wehle had a vision and a mission backyard breeders in general lack and most breed for practical or sentimental reasons, not in the best interest of improving the breed nor striving to produce exceptional bird dogs.

    Fiddlin Rocky Boy X Elhew, bred with purpose.
    [IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]
    Last edited by sidelock; November 24th, 2016 at 12:15 AM.

  7. #26
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    Those pups look excellent.
    My next dog will be a elhew pointer


    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevietangles View Post
    Those pups look excellent.
    My next dog will be a elhew pointer


    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    It takes decades and several generations of selective breeding and culling of offspring that don't conform to a high set of standards to produce a solid foundation with heritable desirable qualities and characteristics.

    Quote from the book Wing & Shot by Robert Wehle.," There are few true dog breeders in the country today. Many have no preconceived plan and in many cases do not even have a clear cut objective. Their matings are not carefully planned and little consideration is given to the pedigrees or bloodlines. They fly by the seat of their pants into some short term range program".
    If you are seriously considering acquiring a dog, my advice is to seek out a reputable breeder that knows what he is trying to produce as an objective and is capable of producing it by employing a sound, well planned and intelligent breeding program.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidelock View Post
    It takes decades and several generations of selective breeding and culling of offspring that don't conform to a high set of standards to produce a solid foundation with heritable desirable qualities and characteristics.

    Quote from the book Wing & Shot by Robert Wehle.," There are few true dog breeders in the country today. Many have no preconceived plan and in many cases do not even have a clear cut objective. Their matings are not carefully planned and little consideration is given to the pedigrees or bloodlines. They fly by the seat of their pants into some short term range program".
    If you are seriously considering acquiring a dog, my advice is to seek out a reputable breeder that knows what he is trying to produce as an objective and is capable of producing it by employing a sound, well planned and intelligent breeding program.
    And don't forget..."Get a shag" :-)

    Having said that the only dog I currently have on the major cover dog circuit is a pointer..Kendal Hills Dawson Creek.

  10. #29
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    Tim, about 1987 I went down to Henderson Harbour to visit Wehle on July 4th weekend. I arrived at the same time as an 18 wheeler from San Francisco loaded with a shipment of Rattan Furniture - still in crates. Wehle and I spent 6 hours unpacking and moving furniture into his house while his wife watched Wimbledon and mine slept. At the end of the day we did sit in the new furniture drinking lemonade for an hour looking out over Lake Ontario while I tapped his eclectic interests. Neither wife, by the way, lasted another year.

    Then in summer of 2001 Dave Fletcher showed up in Picton because of a story he was doing on Trademark for the Field. We sat in my living room one evening watching 3 hours of video he had done with Wehle at his place in Alabama. That video, albeit not professional, was both fascinating and insightful. Have no idea what he's done with it.

    The NY property in Henderson is now a State Park in accordance with the terms of Wehle's will. The guy should have been the interesting man model for Dos Equos beer!

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevietangles View Post
    Those pups look excellent.
    My next dog will be a elhew pointer


    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    About 10 years ago I was looking for my next dog and I wanted an Elhew pointer. So I called a Hall of Fame trainer and asked where the best place was to get an Elhew pointer. His answer surprised me a little but he was correct "Bob's dead, there are no more elhews".

    Keep that in mind before you get too hung up on a name.
    OFAH, CSSA, NFA

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